Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

I have just got back from a job at a set of four council-owned old
peoples bungalows. They are in a clearing amongst large trees in a
very low-lying village (not far from the previous photos). I had
recently become aware that they had each sprouted large new aerials
but hadn't taken much notice as I was late, as usual, for another job.
Anyway, the first I knew was a phone call from and old fellow, after
the recent high winds, to say that the old lady next doors' aerial had
blown down and that I was to phone her on his number during the
evenings as she would be with him watching his TV. He also said that
they were not happy as the aerials had cost so much and they were
having no joy in tracking down the installer.
A past customer of mine in the village had suggested that he should
phone me.

When I arrived, I found a sorry sight. There were four semi-detached
bungalows each with their own single chimney. Or rather three had
chimneys and one didn't.
The one without a chimney had a pile of bricks along side it and an
enormous Televes DAT 75 triple boom multi element on a 16ft mast tied
to the drainpipe at one corner.
The next bungalow had a chimney and screwed to it was a single 2 prong
12" x 12" wall bracket. This held two 6 or 8 ft masts joined together
with a pair of clamps and another DAT 75 with cable draped from it and
looped down the mast.
The third bungalow, where I was going had most of a chimney with a
large horizontal split and no sign of an aerial. (Another DAT 75 later
found lying on the back of the roof).
The fourth chimney was largely intact and had another DAT 75 half way
down a 16 ft mast, again on a 12 x 12 wall bracket, screwed to the
chimney and more untidy cable.

The owner of this last one saw me coming and turned out to be the one
who had phoned me. He was the talkative type but didn't hear too well
so communication was a bit one sided. He went on to tell me that all 4
bungalows had always had a lot of trouble with reception and could
never see much especially in the summer. He had then bought a freeview
box from a local small TV shop, expecting magic results. Of course he
got nothing! Returning to the shop, they arranged for their aerial
installer to call to sort out the problem.
His old lady neighbour had taken a different approach, 2 or 3 years
before and had a sky dish fitted on her chimney and taken out a
"Family Pack" subscription so that she could watch Channels 1 to 5.
(More on this later). The other two bungalows were too close to the
trees, according to Sky and couldn't see the satellite so they were
stuck with terrestrial reception.

The aerial installer arrived and proceeded to "install" the aerial
mentioned before and facing it towards Hannington. This gave
absolutely unwatchable results with multi, multi ghosting on analogue
and therefore on the VCR but, to the customers delight, a "purfek"
picture with the "digi'ul" !!
Mr Talkative was delighted (even if it did cost £500 !!) and he told
his other three neighbours.
The old lady next door was delighted that she would no longer HAVE to
pay Sky to get channels 1 to 5 (!) and the aerial installer even
volunteered to take down her dish when she booked her own £500
installation.
The other two neighbours followed suit although one did cost a bit
less, presumably because the two joined together masts were retained!
The next part of the story was totally predictable. The signals
started to break up. ("Them was still perfek, you know, it's just that
summat had come a bit loose," he told me)
The "installer" was called back and he "tightened" the aerials. Things
went from bad to worse and apparently the "pikchers was still "purfek"
but "them was too bad to watch"!!
The installer came back and had a brain wave. He faced all four
aerials in the opposite direction to pick up Hannington as a
reflection from the hills, still through the trees. Analogue still
totally impossible but digital ok, sometimes, on some channels. And
that's where the aerials had stayed for some months.....until the winds
of the 18th Jan....

I found my customer's aerial lying on the back of the roof complete
with 16ft mast and 12"x12" single wall bracket and 50mm !!! coach
bolts and plastic plugs still attached. The top two courses of the
chimney and the concrete slab top had split off and rested on an
angle. The roof tiles had miraculously survived. It was the first time
that I had actually handled a DAT 75 aerial and it was remarkably
heavy.
I spent some time showing my customer and her neighbour why the
problem had occurred and saying what I thought! I don't think Mr
Talkative really understood the seriousness of it all and how
dangerous each installation was. He was more interested in telling me
that his picture had never been as good and that he wanted me to put
the old ladies' aerial back with longer bolts and that they wanted to
keep the aerials as they were as they had cost so much. At this point
he had to go off for a doctors' appointment, which was a bit of a
relief as I could concentrate on the job.
As it happened, once he had gone and the actual customer was allowed
to speak for herself, she was perfectly alert and communicative and
she told me that she had never been happy with such a large aerial on
the chimney and would I be able to fit it on the end wall? This was
going to be a much more sensible and secure idea but I had my doubts
that there would be any chance of getting a usable signal. I explained
that she could have a small dish and have all the main channels free
after buying a £20 card and she couldn't believe that the other
installer had not told her this. This would, of course, have been a
wasted visit for him. She had given her old Sky box away and the
"aerial man" had removed the dish and left it in the back garden. To
keep everyone happy and to satisfy my own curiosity, I did test the
terrestrial signal at every possible spot around the house and garden
but it was obvious that if I did reuse the aerial, I would be in for
constant callouts and hassle. To cut an even longer story short, I
explained that I would find a good used Sky box and install her dish
out of all harms way on the gable end of the bungalow and order a
Freesat card for channels 4 and 5.
I returned the following day and completed the job. Much to her
delight, the customer was back to her well-known Sky menus and one
remote handset rather than two, and she couldn't believe how many
channels she could get without any subscription.

Her neighbour, Mr Talkative, watched with interest as I did the whole
job and I reinforced my opinions about the aerials, the previous
installer, the dangers involved and the likely unreliability of the
signal etc, but he still chose to keep his aerial, as it was, tall
mast screwed to the chimney with 50mm bolts and plastic plugs and
cable flapping as he "didn't want to waste the money that he had paid
for it" !!! I wonder if the council would feel the same?

The other two neighbours came out from time to time to inspect
progress but made no mention of their plans so I thought it best to
leave them to check on the results with my customer and make up their
own minds.

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"widgitt" wrote in message
ps.com...


I have just got back from a job at a set of four council-owned old
peoples bungalows.

(snip)

My goodness that's a tale! And it isn't ended yet. Please let us know what
the neighbours do. Did you take any photographs?

Thanks for taking the time to send such an interesting post.

Bill

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"widgitt" wrote in message
ps.com...

Snipped for brevity

"His old lady neighbour had taken a different approach, 2 or 3 years
before and had a sky dish fitted on her chimney and taken out a
"Family Pack" subscription so that she could watch Channels 1 to 5.
(More on this later). The other two bungalows were too close to the
trees, according to Sky and couldn't see the satellite so they were
stuck with terrestrial reception."


"I explained that she could have a small dish and have all the main
channels free after buying a £20 card and she couldn't believe that
the other installer had not told her this. This would, of course, have
been a wasted visit for him. She had given her old Sky box away and
the "aerial man" had removed the dish and left it in the back garden.
To keep everyone happy and to satisfy my own curiosity, I did test the
terrestrial signal at every possible spot around the house and garden
but it was obvious that if I did reuse the aerial, I would be in for
constant callouts and hassle. To cut an even longer story short, I
explained that I would find a good used Sky box and install her dish
out of all harms way on the gable end of the bungalow and order a
Freesat card for channels 4 and 5.
I returned the following day and completed the job. Much to her
delight, the customer was back to her well-known Sky menus and one
remote handset rather than two, and she couldn't believe how many
channels she could get without any subscription."



Surely it's time for channel Four and Five to take the plunge and breakaway
from Sky, especially as BBC and ITV have already done so and don't appear to
have suffered any serious consequences, despite all of the 'copyright' doom
and gloom people were predicting at the time.

Without viewers being forced into using a Sky receiver and card, cheap stand
alone digital satellite systems could sell for little more than a 'decent'
Freeview receiver does now from virtually any electrical retailer or aerial
fitter.

BTW does anyone know exactly what the proposed Freesat line up will actually
consist of (for instance will it have its own separate EPG) and when it will
start?

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

Am Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:37:02 -0700 schrieb widgitt:

When I arrived, I found a sorry sight. There were four semi-detached
bungalows each with their own single chimney.
....
To cut an even longer story short, I
explained that I would find a good used Sky box and install her dish
out of all harms way on the gable end of the bungalow and order a
Freesat card for channels 4 and 5.
I returned the following day and completed the job. Much to her
delight, the customer was back to her well-known Sky menus and one
remote handset rather than two, and she couldn't believe how many
channels she could get without any subscription.

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish between
the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead of the
standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used skyboxes
plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly neighbours that this
might be a cost effective solution. You can even sell those DAT75-monsters
in the bay :-)

Andreas

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"Andreas Schulze-Bäing" wrote in message
...
Am Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:37:02 -0700 schrieb widgitt:

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish between
the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead of the
standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used skyboxes
plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly neighbours that
this
might be a cost effective solution. You can even sell those DAT75-monsters
in the bay :-)

We tried that and the trouble is if you take them apart the plastic breaks.

Bill

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:06:39 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Andreas Schulze-Bäing" wrote in message
.. .
Am Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:37:02 -0700 schrieb widgitt:

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish between
the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead of the
standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used skyboxes
plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly neighbours that
this
might be a cost effective solution. You can even sell those DAT75-monsters
in the bay :-)

We tried that and the trouble is if you take them apart the plastic breaks.

Bill

My old DAT45 was like that. The plastic seems to get brittle in the
sun. It's still on my dad'd old house. The new owners ain't removed
it yet.

Marky P.

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"Marky P" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:06:39 +0100, "Bill Wright"
My old DAT45 was like that. The plastic seems to get brittle in the
sun. It's still on my dad'd old house. The new owners ain't removed
it yet.

They won't need to.

Bill

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

I wonder if the "Inglar" antenna that is advertised in Wotsat (right at the
back in a tiny quarter page advert) is any better than the Televes re
friable plastic sensitive to UV cooking.Made in Slovenia and probably
exported a lot to Germany therefore and unlikely to be crap.

www.inglar.si

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

On Aug 24, 10:51 am, Andreas Schulze-Bäing wrote:

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish between
the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead of the
standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used skyboxes
plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly neighbours that this
might be a cost effective solution.

Andreas

Unfortunately that's not a viable option.
You would run into some serious electrical safety issues by doing
that.

Adjacent houses are almost always on different phases of the 3-phase
supply.
This is to balance the load on the cable that runs down the street.
The result is that there will be 415 volts between the live pins of
mains sockets in adjacent houses.

Anyone installing a system like this in the UK could find themselves
in hot water if there was a fault in one house that caused damage (or
worse, an electric shock) in another house.

If you need to do this, say for instance in a block of flats, you
would need to employ the services of someone like Bill to install a
professional distribution system. In this case of a few old people,
it's probably not cost-effective.

Sorry, Ian.

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In article om,
wrote:
On Aug 24, 10:51 am, Andreas Schulze-Bäing wrote:

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish
between the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead
of the standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used
skyboxes plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly
neighbours that this might be a cost effective solution.

Andreas

Unfortunately that's not a viable option.
You would run into some serious electrical safety issues by doing
that.

Adjacent houses are almost always on different phases of the 3-phase
supply.
This is to balance the load on the cable that runs down the street.
The result is that there will be 415 volts between the live pins of
mains sockets in adjacent houses.

Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced load'
requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2 dozen bungalows,
built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase only. I'm sure there are
plenty of similar situations in other places.




--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article om,
wrote:
On Aug 24, 10:51 am, Andreas Schulze-Bäing wrote:

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish
between the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead
of the standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used
skyboxes plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly
neighbours that this might be a cost effective solution.

Andreas

Unfortunately that's not a viable option.
You would run into some serious electrical safety issues by doing
that.

Adjacent houses are almost always on different phases of the 3-phase
supply.
This is to balance the load on the cable that runs down the street.
The result is that there will be 415 volts between the live pins of
mains sockets in adjacent houses.

Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced load'
requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2 dozen bungalows,
built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase only. I'm sure there are
plenty of similar situations in other places.


However should a piece of faulty equipment develop a live chassis, then the
screening on the feeder connected to the other dwellings will also be
rendered live.

As any unfortunate aerial rigger who has been at the top of a wet aluminium
ladder whilst trimming a length of coax connected to a live chassis
(especially back in the days when ac\dc television receivers were common)
can no doubt testify!





--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:41:35 +0100, charles
mused:

In article om,
wrote:
On Aug 24, 10:51 am, Andreas Schulze-Bäing wrote:

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish
between the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead
of the standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used
skyboxes plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly
neighbours that this might be a cost effective solution.

Andreas

Unfortunately that's not a viable option.
You would run into some serious electrical safety issues by doing
that.

Adjacent houses are almost always on different phases of the 3-phase
supply.
This is to balance the load on the cable that runs down the street.
The result is that there will be 415 volts between the live pins of
mains sockets in adjacent houses.

Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced load'
requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2 dozen bungalows,
built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase only. I'm sure there are
plenty of similar situations in other places.

Could be either\or. Depends on what the local loadings are like.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article om,
wrote:
On Aug 24, 10:51 am, Andreas Schulze-Bäing wrote:

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish
between the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead
of the standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used
skyboxes plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly
neighbours that this might be a cost effective solution.

Andreas

Unfortunately that's not a viable option.
You would run into some serious electrical safety issues by doing
that.

Adjacent houses are almost always on different phases of the 3-phase
supply.
This is to balance the load on the cable that runs down the street.
The result is that there will be 415 volts between the live pins of
mains sockets in adjacent houses.

Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced load'
requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2 dozen bungalows,
built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase only. I'm sure there are
plenty of similar situations in other places.

Its more to balance the load on the transformer rather than the cable...


That was prolly fed of a single phase 11 kV feed...
--
Tony Sayer

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish between
the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead of the
standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used skyboxes
plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly neighbours that this
might be a cost effective solution.

I did try to suggest this. It would have been easy to cable as the
houses are not far apart and would certainly have been good for the
end house and perhaps the next one as they were too close to the trees
for sat reception.
Although I do take the point about possible safety issues.
My customer did not like the idea of using her dish for them all so I
had to give up on that idea and leave them to think about it. Perhaps
they will reinvent the idea themselves eventually.

I must go back and have a look to see what the current situation is. I
dont go that way very often.

Unfortunately I forgot to take the camera when I went the second time
to do the job but I have another job to do nearby soon so I will try
to remember to take it and take a shot of the current situation.

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In article om,
wrote:
If you need to do this, say for instance in a block of flats, you
would need to employ the services of someone like Bill to install a
professional distribution system. *In this case of a few old people,
it's probably not cost-effective.

Speaking of old people, I've just watched a documentary from Ch4 about
the oldest people in the world - all of them older than 100. A
fascinating programme, and surprisingly moving to see how cheerful most
of them were. One old dear was asked by the interviewer how she felt
about being on television, and didn't appear to know what television
was. I'm not completely sure if she was joking, but it is a sobering
thought that people in that age group will have lived a large chunk of
their lives before television was invented, so it is entirely possible
that some of them simply never bothered with it.

I think I already feel the same way myself about things like computer
games, and "blogs" (whatever thay are), and I haven't understood the
noises young people listen to for at least thirty years. If by some
miracle I live to be more than 100, middle-aged people who are not yet
born may be marvelling at my lack of comprehension of some everyday
gadget that they all take for granted. I wonder what it will be?

Rod.

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

wrote in message
ps.com...
On Aug 24, 10:51 am, Andreas Schulze-Bäing wrote:

Would it be an option in that case to share the one satellite dish between
the four bungalows? You just need to install a quad LNB instead of the
standard single LNB, enough high quality cable, three more used skyboxes
plus card and... well an agreement between the elderly neighbours that
this
might be a cost effective solution.

Andreas

Unfortunately that's not a viable option.
You would run into some serious electrical safety issues by doing
that.

Adjacent houses are almost always on different phases of the 3-phase
supply.
This is to balance the load on the cable that runs down the street.
The result is that there will be 415 volts between the live pins of
mains sockets in adjacent houses.

Anyone installing a system like this in the UK could find themselves
in hot water if there was a fault in one house that caused damage (or
worse, an electric shock) in another house.

If you need to do this, say for instance in a block of flats, you
would need to employ the services of someone like Bill to install a
professional distribution system. In this case of a few old people,
it's probably not cost-effective.

Sorry, Ian.

........................

It isn't much of a problem to earth bond the installation though, and that's
all that's needed. We usually employ a qualified electrician to do this and
the cost isn't great.

By the way 'a few old people' probably means 'a few people with more
disposable income than the average young family'.

Bill

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus


Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced load'
requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2 dozen
bungalows, built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase only. I'm sure
there are plenty of similar situations in other places.

Its more to balance the load on the transformer rather than the cable...


That was prolly fed of a single phase 11 kV feed...

nope, feed from the 440v cable going down the road.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus


Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced load'
requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2 dozen
bungalows, built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase only. I'm sure
there are plenty of similar situations in other places.

Its more to balance the load on the transformer rather than the cable...


That was prolly fed of a single phase 11 kV feed...

nope, feed from the 440v cable going down the road.

Well if it was fed on a 440 supply on a single phase..

...Think about that Charles;?..

And where did that cable go in turn?..
--
Tony Sayer

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus


Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced
load' requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2 dozen
bungalows, built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase only. I'm
sure there are plenty of similar situations in other places.

Its more to balance the load on the transformer rather than the
cable...


That was prolly fed of a single phase 11 kV feed...

nope, feed from the 440v cable going down the road.

Well if it was fed on a 440 supply on a single phase..

No, it was a single phase tap off from the main road.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus


Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced
load' requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2 dozen
bungalows, built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase only. I'm
sure there are plenty of similar situations in other places.

Its more to balance the load on the transformer rather than the
cable...


That was prolly fed of a single phase 11 kV feed...

nope, feed from the 440v cable going down the road.

Well if it was fed on a 440 supply on a single phase..

No, it was a single phase tap off from the main road.


I very much doubt that they had just the one tapping in use, the others
must have been going elsewhere...
--
Tony Sayer

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , charles
scribeth thus


Not nowadays. True, that used to be the case, but the 'balanced
load' requirement vanished years ago. A local development of 2
dozen bungalows, built over 20 years ago was fed from one phase
only. I'm sure there are plenty of similar situations in other
places.

Its more to balance the load on the transformer rather than the
cable...


That was prolly fed of a single phase 11 kV feed...

nope, feed from the 440v cable going down the road.

Well if it was fed on a 440 supply on a single phase..

No, it was a single phase tap off from the main road.


I very much doubt that they had just the one tapping in use, the others
must have been going elsewhere...

Any other tapping would have been made several (30+) years earlier.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"widgitt" wrote in message
ps.com...


I have just got back from a job at a set of four council-owned old
peoples bungalows. They are in a clearing amongst large trees in a
very low-lying village (not far from the previous photos). I had
recently become aware that they had each sprouted large new aerials
but hadn't taken much notice as I was late, as usual, for another job.
Anyway, the first I knew was a phone call from and old fellow, after
the recent high winds, to say that the old lady next doors' aerial had
blown down and that I was to phone her on his number during the
evenings as she would be with him watching his TV. He also said that
they were not happy as the aerials had cost so much and they were
having no joy in tracking down the installer.
A past customer of mine in the village had suggested that he should
phone me.

When I arrived, I found a sorry sight. There were four semi-detached
bungalows each with their own single chimney. Or rather three had
chimneys and one didn't.
The one without a chimney had a pile of bricks along side it and an
enormous Televes DAT 75 triple boom multi element on a 16ft mast tied
to the drainpipe at one corner.
The next bungalow had a chimney and screwed to it was a single 2 prong
12" x 12" wall bracket. This held two 6 or 8 ft masts joined together
with a pair of clamps and another DAT 75 with cable draped from it and
looped down the mast.
The third bungalow, where I was going had most of a chimney with a
large horizontal split and no sign of an aerial. (Another DAT 75 later
found lying on the back of the roof).
The fourth chimney was largely intact and had another DAT 75 half way
down a 16 ft mast, again on a 12 x 12 wall bracket, screwed to the
chimney and more untidy cable.

The owner of this last one saw me coming and turned out to be the one
who had phoned me. He was the talkative type but didn't hear too well
so communication was a bit one sided. He went on to tell me that all 4
bungalows had always had a lot of trouble with reception and could
never see much especially in the summer. He had then bought a freeview
box from a local small TV shop, expecting magic results. Of course he
got nothing! Returning to the shop, they arranged for their aerial
installer to call to sort out the problem.
His old lady neighbour had taken a different approach, 2 or 3 years
before and had a sky dish fitted on her chimney and taken out a
"Family Pack" subscription so that she could watch Channels 1 to 5.
(More on this later). The other two bungalows were too close to the
trees, according to Sky and couldn't see the satellite so they were
stuck with terrestrial reception.

The aerial installer arrived and proceeded to "install" the aerial
mentioned before and facing it towards Hannington. This gave
absolutely unwatchable results with multi, multi ghosting on analogue
and therefore on the VCR but, to the customers delight, a "purfek"
picture with the "digi'ul" !!
Mr Talkative was delighted (even if it did cost £500 !!) and he told
his other three neighbours.
The old lady next door was delighted that she would no longer HAVE to
pay Sky to get channels 1 to 5 (!) and the aerial installer even
volunteered to take down her dish when she booked her own £500
installation.
The other two neighbours followed suit although one did cost a bit
less, presumably because the two joined together masts were retained!
The next part of the story was totally predictable. The signals
started to break up. ("Them was still perfek, you know, it's just that
summat had come a bit loose," he told me)
The "installer" was called back and he "tightened" the aerials. Things
went from bad to worse and apparently the "pikchers was still "purfek"
but "them was too bad to watch"!!
The installer came back and had a brain wave. He faced all four
aerials in the opposite direction to pick up Hannington as a
reflection from the hills, still through the trees. Analogue still
totally impossible but digital ok, sometimes, on some channels. And
that's where the aerials had stayed for some months.....until the winds
of the 18th Jan....

I found my customer's aerial lying on the back of the roof complete
with 16ft mast and 12"x12" single wall bracket and 50mm !!! coach
bolts and plastic plugs still attached. The top two courses of the
chimney and the concrete slab top had split off and rested on an
angle. The roof tiles had miraculously survived. It was the first time
that I had actually handled a DAT 75 aerial and it was remarkably
heavy.
I spent some time showing my customer and her neighbour why the
problem had occurred and saying what I thought! I don't think Mr
Talkative really understood the seriousness of it all and how
dangerous each installation was. He was more interested in telling me
that his picture had never been as good and that he wanted me to put
the old ladies' aerial back with longer bolts and that they wanted to
keep the aerials as they were as they had cost so much. At this point
he had to go off for a doctors' appointment, which was a bit of a
relief as I could concentrate on the job.
As it happened, once he had gone and the actual customer was allowed
to speak for herself, she was perfectly alert and communicative and
she told me that she had never been happy with such a large aerial on
the chimney and would I be able to fit it on the end wall? This was
going to be a much more sensible and secure idea but I had my doubts
that there would be any chance of getting a usable signal. I explained
that she could have a small dish and have all the main channels free
after buying a £20 card and she couldn't believe that the other
installer had not told her this. This would, of course, have been a
wasted visit for him. She had given her old Sky box away and the
"aerial man" had removed the dish and left it in the back garden. To
keep everyone happy and to satisfy my own curiosity, I did test the
terrestrial signal at every possible spot around the house and garden
but it was obvious that if I did reuse the aerial, I would be in for
constant callouts and hassle. To cut an even longer story short, I
explained that I would find a good used Sky box and install her dish
out of all harms way on the gable end of the bungalow and order a
Freesat card for channels 4 and 5.
I returned the following day and completed the job. Much to her
delight, the customer was back to her well-known Sky menus and one
remote handset rather than two, and she couldn't believe how many
channels she could get without any subscription.

Her neighbour, Mr Talkative, watched with interest as I did the whole
job and I reinforced my opinions about the aerials, the previous
installer, the dangers involved and the likely unreliability of the
signal etc, but he still chose to keep his aerial, as it was, tall
mast screwed to the chimney with 50mm bolts and plastic plugs and
cable flapping as he "didn't want to waste the money that he had paid
for it" !!! I wonder if the council would feel the same?

The other two neighbours came out from time to time to inspect
progress but made no mention of their plans so I thought it best to
leave them to check on the results with my customer and make up their
own minds.

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"Lord Turkey Cough" wrote in message
...

"widgitt" wrote in message
ps.com...


I have just got back from a job at a set of four council-owned old
peoples bungalows. They are in a clearing amongst large trees in a
very low-lying village (not far from the previous photos). I had
recently become aware that they had each sprouted large new aerials
but hadn't taken much notice as I was late, as usual, for another job.
Anyway, the first I knew was a phone call from and old fellow, after
the recent high winds, to say that the old lady next doors' aerial had
blown down and that I was to phone her on his number during the
evenings as she would be with him watching his TV. He also said that
they were not happy as the aerials had cost so much and they were
having no joy in tracking down the installer.
A past customer of mine in the village had suggested that he should
phone me.

When I arrived, I found a sorry sight. There were four semi-detached
bungalows each with their own single chimney. Or rather three had
chimneys and one didn't.
The one without a chimney had a pile of bricks along side it and an
enormous Televes DAT 75 triple boom multi element on a 16ft mast tied
to the drainpipe at one corner.
The next bungalow had a chimney and screwed to it was a single 2 prong
12" x 12" wall bracket. This held two 6 or 8 ft masts joined together
with a pair of clamps and another DAT 75 with cable draped from it and
looped down the mast.
The third bungalow, where I was going had most of a chimney with a
large horizontal split and no sign of an aerial. (Another DAT 75 later
found lying on the back of the roof).
The fourth chimney was largely intact and had another DAT 75 half way
down a 16 ft mast, again on a 12 x 12 wall bracket, screwed to the
chimney and more untidy cable.

The owner of this last one saw me coming and turned out to be the one
who had phoned me. He was the talkative type but didn't hear too well
so communication was a bit one sided. He went on to tell me that all 4
bungalows had always had a lot of trouble with reception and could
never see much especially in the summer. He had then bought a freeview
box from a local small TV shop, expecting magic results. Of course he
got nothing! Returning to the shop, they arranged for their aerial
installer to call to sort out the problem.
His old lady neighbour had taken a different approach, 2 or 3 years
before and had a sky dish fitted on her chimney and taken out a
"Family Pack" subscription so that she could watch Channels 1 to 5.
(More on this later). The other two bungalows were too close to the
trees, according to Sky and couldn't see the satellite so they were
stuck with terrestrial reception.

The aerial installer arrived and proceeded to "install" the aerial
mentioned before and facing it towards Hannington. This gave
absolutely unwatchable results with multi, multi ghosting on analogue
and therefore on the VCR but, to the customers delight, a "purfek"
picture with the "digi'ul" !!
Mr Talkative was delighted (even if it did cost £500 !!) and he told
his other three neighbours.
The old lady next door was delighted that she would no longer HAVE to
pay Sky to get channels 1 to 5 (!) and the aerial installer even
volunteered to take down her dish when she booked her own £500
installation.
The other two neighbours followed suit although one did cost a bit
less, presumably because the two joined together masts were retained!
The next part of the story was totally predictable. The signals
started to break up. ("Them was still perfek, you know, it's just that
summat had come a bit loose," he told me)
The "installer" was called back and he "tightened" the aerials. Things
went from bad to worse and apparently the "pikchers was still "purfek"
but "them was too bad to watch"!!
The installer came back and had a brain wave. He faced all four
aerials in the opposite direction to pick up Hannington as a
reflection from the hills, still through the trees. Analogue still
totally impossible but digital ok, sometimes, on some channels. And
that's where the aerials had stayed for some months.....until the winds
of the 18th Jan....

I found my customer's aerial lying on the back of the roof complete
with 16ft mast and 12"x12" single wall bracket and 50mm !!! coach
bolts and plastic plugs still attached. The top two courses of the
chimney and the concrete slab top had split off and rested on an
angle. The roof tiles had miraculously survived. It was the first time
that I had actually handled a DAT 75 aerial and it was remarkably
heavy.
I spent some time showing my customer and her neighbour why the
problem had occurred and saying what I thought! I don't think Mr
Talkative really understood the seriousness of it all and how
dangerous each installation was. He was more interested in telling me
that his picture had never been as good and that he wanted me to put
the old ladies' aerial back with longer bolts and that they wanted to
keep the aerials as they were as they had cost so much. At this point
he had to go off for a doctors' appointment, which was a bit of a
relief as I could concentrate on the job.
As it happened, once he had gone and the actual customer was allowed
to speak for herself, she was perfectly alert and communicative and
she told me that she had never been happy with such a large aerial on
the chimney and would I be able to fit it on the end wall? This was
going to be a much more sensible and secure idea but I had my doubts
that there would be any chance of getting a usable signal. I explained
that she could have a small dish and have all the main channels free
after buying a £20 card and she couldn't believe that the other
installer had not told her this. This would, of course, have been a
wasted visit for him. She had given her old Sky box away and the
"aerial man" had removed the dish and left it in the back garden. To
keep everyone happy and to satisfy my own curiosity, I did test the
terrestrial signal at every possible spot around the house and garden
but it was obvious that if I did reuse the aerial, I would be in for
constant callouts and hassle. To cut an even longer story short, I
explained that I would find a good used Sky box and install her dish
out of all harms way on the gable end of the bungalow and order a
Freesat card for channels 4 and 5.
I returned the following day and completed the job. Much to her
delight, the customer was back to her well-known Sky menus and one
remote handset rather than two, and she couldn't believe how many
channels she could get without any subscription.

Her neighbour, Mr Talkative, watched with interest as I did the whole
job and I reinforced my opinions about the aerials, the previous
installer, the dangers involved and the likely unreliability of the
signal etc, but he still chose to keep his aerial, as it was, tall
mast screwed to the chimney with 50mm bolts and plastic plugs and
cable flapping as he "didn't want to waste the money that he had paid
for it" !!! I wonder if the council would feel the same?

The other two neighbours came out from time to time to inspect
progress but made no mention of their plans so I thought it best to
leave them to check on the results with my customer and make up their
own minds.

Can't be arsed to read all that.
Can anyone give a one line summary?

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"Lord Turkey Cough" wrote in message
...

"widgitt" wrote in message
ps.com...


I have just got back from a job at a set of four council-owned old
peoples bungalows. They are in a clearing amongst large trees in a
very low-lying village (not far from the previous photos). I had
recently become aware that they had each sprouted large new aerials
but hadn't taken much notice as I was late, as usual, for another job.
Anyway, the first I knew was a phone call from and old fellow, after
the recent high winds, to say that the old lady next doors' aerial had
blown down and that I was to phone her on his number during the
evenings as she would be with him watching his TV. He also said that
they were not happy as the aerials had cost so much and they were
having no joy in tracking down the installer.
A past customer of mine in the village had suggested that he should
phone me.

When I arrived, I found a sorry sight. There were four semi-detached
bungalows each with their own single chimney. Or rather three had
chimneys and one didn't.
The one without a chimney had a pile of bricks along side it and an
enormous Televes DAT 75 triple boom multi element on a 16ft mast tied
to the drainpipe at one corner.
The next bungalow had a chimney and screwed to it was a single 2 prong
12" x 12" wall bracket. This held two 6 or 8 ft masts joined together
with a pair of clamps and another DAT 75 with cable draped from it and
looped down the mast.
The third bungalow, where I was going had most of a chimney with a
large horizontal split and no sign of an aerial. (Another DAT 75 later
found lying on the back of the roof).
The fourth chimney was largely intact and had another DAT 75 half way
down a 16 ft mast, again on a 12 x 12 wall bracket, screwed to the
chimney and more untidy cable.

The owner of this last one saw me coming and turned out to be the one
who had phoned me. He was the talkative type but didn't hear too well
so communication was a bit one sided. He went on to tell me that all 4
bungalows had always had a lot of trouble with reception and could
never see much especially in the summer. He had then bought a freeview
box from a local small TV shop, expecting magic results. Of course he
got nothing! Returning to the shop, they arranged for their aerial
installer to call to sort out the problem.
His old lady neighbour had taken a different approach, 2 or 3 years
before and had a sky dish fitted on her chimney and taken out a
"Family Pack" subscription so that she could watch Channels 1 to 5.
(More on this later). The other two bungalows were too close to the
trees, according to Sky and couldn't see the satellite so they were
stuck with terrestrial reception.

The aerial installer arrived and proceeded to "install" the aerial
mentioned before and facing it towards Hannington. This gave
absolutely unwatchable results with multi, multi ghosting on analogue
and therefore on the VCR but, to the customers delight, a "purfek"
picture with the "digi'ul" !!
Mr Talkative was delighted (even if it did cost £500 !!) and he told
his other three neighbours.
The old lady next door was delighted that she would no longer HAVE to
pay Sky to get channels 1 to 5 (!) and the aerial installer even
volunteered to take down her dish when she booked her own £500
installation.
The other two neighbours followed suit although one did cost a bit
less, presumably because the two joined together masts were retained!
The next part of the story was totally predictable. The signals
started to break up. ("Them was still perfek, you know, it's just that
summat had come a bit loose," he told me)
The "installer" was called back and he "tightened" the aerials. Things
went from bad to worse and apparently the "pikchers was still "purfek"
but "them was too bad to watch"!!
The installer came back and had a brain wave. He faced all four
aerials in the opposite direction to pick up Hannington as a
reflection from the hills, still through the trees. Analogue still
totally impossible but digital ok, sometimes, on some channels. And
that's where the aerials had stayed for some months.....until the winds
of the 18th Jan....

I found my customer's aerial lying on the back of the roof complete
with 16ft mast and 12"x12" single wall bracket and 50mm !!! coach
bolts and plastic plugs still attached. The top two courses of the
chimney and the concrete slab top had split off and rested on an
angle. The roof tiles had miraculously survived. It was the first time
that I had actually handled a DAT 75 aerial and it was remarkably
heavy.
I spent some time showing my customer and her neighbour why the
problem had occurred and saying what I thought! I don't think Mr
Talkative really understood the seriousness of it all and how
dangerous each installation was. He was more interested in telling me
that his picture had never been as good and that he wanted me to put
the old ladies' aerial back with longer bolts and that they wanted to
keep the aerials as they were as they had cost so much. At this point
he had to go off for a doctors' appointment, which was a bit of a
relief as I could concentrate on the job.
As it happened, once he had gone and the actual customer was allowed
to speak for herself, she was perfectly alert and communicative and
she told me that she had never been happy with such a large aerial on
the chimney and would I be able to fit it on the end wall? This was
going to be a much more sensible and secure idea but I had my doubts
that there would be any chance of getting a usable signal. I explained
that she could have a small dish and have all the main channels free
after buying a £20 card and she couldn't believe that the other
installer had not told her this. This would, of course, have been a
wasted visit for him. She had given her old Sky box away and the
"aerial man" had removed the dish and left it in the back garden. To
keep everyone happy and to satisfy my own curiosity, I did test the
terrestrial signal at every possible spot around the house and garden
but it was obvious that if I did reuse the aerial, I would be in for
constant callouts and hassle. To cut an even longer story short, I
explained that I would find a good used Sky box and install her dish
out of all harms way on the gable end of the bungalow and order a
Freesat card for channels 4 and 5.
I returned the following day and completed the job. Much to her
delight, the customer was back to her well-known Sky menus and one
remote handset rather than two, and she couldn't believe how many
channels she could get without any subscription.

Her neighbour, Mr Talkative, watched with interest as I did the whole
job and I reinforced my opinions about the aerials, the previous
installer, the dangers involved and the likely unreliability of the
signal etc, but he still chose to keep his aerial, as it was, tall
mast screwed to the chimney with 50mm bolts and plastic plugs and
cable flapping as he "didn't want to waste the money that he had paid
for it" !!! I wonder if the council would feel the same?

The other two neighbours came out from time to time to inspect
progress but made no mention of their plans so I thought it best to
leave them to check on the results with my customer and make up their
own minds.



Shocking. It can be mighty difficult dealing with customers when inspecting
& condemning a new & expensive installation carried out by the cowboys!
Please post some pictures when you get the chance to go back.

Had quite a few like this........recently went to one which had recently had
a huge wideband high gain put in a difficult location signal wise. Half the
muxes were missing and the rest were totally unreliable. They had charged a
pretty packet for this new aerial & said they had tried to get the signal
everywhere possible but couldn't. They also said they replaced the bracketry
& 16ft mast at the same time. I was called because the mast was leaning at
an angle & they had been given my number by a friend who was a recent
customer of mine. They'd had the previous company back a few times & didn't
trust them anymore.

I found the mast was bent badly due to over tightening, the aerial was
pointing at a relay due to poor CP at that location & they can't have tested
the signal anywhere else because they just stuck the new mast & heavy aerial
into the old single bracket with it's diagonal rusty lashing wire which was
almost corroded through! There were also a hige amount of broken tiles
behind the chimney which I made sure to point out before I got up there.
After they had finished the CCTV cameras distributed around the house were
quite noisy.

I had to rip the whole lot down & start again. A good hour or so testing on
the roof with a LP and masthead and found a spot where all the CP muxes were
rock solid, fitted new brackets etc & much smaller mast. Finally adjusted
the CCTV channels & job done.

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

"Carpy" wrote in message
.uk...




Shocking. It can be mighty difficult dealing with customers when
inspecting & condemning a new & expensive installation carried out by the
cowboys! Please post some pictures when you get the chance to go back.

Had quite a few like this........recently went to one which had recently
had a huge wideband high gain put in a difficult location signal wise.
Half the muxes were missing and the rest were totally unreliable. They had
charged a pretty packet for this new aerial & said they had tried to get
the signal everywhere possible but couldn't. They also said they replaced
the bracketry & 16ft mast at the same time. I was called because the mast
was leaning at an angle & they had been given my number by a friend who
was a recent customer of mine. They'd had the previous company back a few
times & didn't trust them anymore.

I found the mast was bent badly due to over tightening, the aerial was
pointing at a relay due to poor CP at that location & they can't have
tested the signal anywhere else because they just stuck the new mast &
heavy aerial into the old single bracket with it's diagonal rusty lashing
wire which was almost corroded through! There were also a hige amount of
broken tiles behind the chimney which I made sure to point out before I
got up there. After they had finished the CCTV cameras distributed around
the house were quite noisy.

I had to rip the whole lot down & start again. A good hour or so testing
on the roof with a LP and masthead and found a spot where all the CP muxes
were rock solid, fitted new brackets etc & much smaller mast. Finally
adjusted the CCTV channels & job done.

I can appreciate the feeling of satisfaction one achieves after replacing a
DAT 75 with a 'decent' 14 element Yagi which produces rock solid digital
reception.

It's frightening where some of these horrendous monstrosities are now
springing up like blots on the landscape, especially in places where one can
see the transmitter from the rooftop.. 'still its gotta be worth the 200
quid mate, cos its diggital and really looks the business!'

Dangerous digital rip-offs
 

In message ,
Lord Turkey Cough Proclaimed from the tallest tower:

"Lord Turkey Cough" wrote in message
...

"widgitt" wrote in message
ps.com...


I have just got back from a job at a set of four council-owned old
peoples bungalows. They are in a clearing amongst large trees in a
very low-lying village (not far from the previous photos). I had
recently become aware that they had each sprouted large new aerials
but hadn't taken much notice as I was late, as usual, for another
job. Anyway, the first I knew was a phone call from and old fellow,
after the recent high winds, to say that the old lady next doors'
aerial had blown down and that I was to phone her on his number
during the evenings as she would be with him watching his TV. He
also said that they were not happy as the aerials had cost so much
and they were having no joy in tracking down the installer.
A past customer of mine in the village had suggested that he should
phone me.

When I arrived, I found a sorry sight. There were four semi-detached
bungalows each with their own single chimney. Or rather three had
chimneys and one didn't.
The one without a chimney had a pile of bricks along side it and an
enormous Televes DAT 75 triple boom multi element on a 16ft mast
tied to the drainpipe at one corner.
The next bungalow had a chimney and screwed to it was a single 2
prong 12" x 12" wall bracket. This held two 6 or 8 ft masts joined
together with a pair of clamps and another DAT 75 with cable draped
from it and looped down the mast.
The third bungalow, where I was going had most of a chimney with a
large horizontal split and no sign of an aerial. (Another DAT 75
later found lying on the back of the roof).
The fourth chimney was largely intact and had another DAT 75 half way
down a 16 ft mast, again on a 12 x 12 wall bracket, screwed to the
chimney and more untidy cable.

The owner of this last one saw me coming and turned out to be the one
who had phoned me. He was the talkative type but didn't hear too well
so communication was a bit one sided. He went on to tell me that all
4 bungalows had always had a lot of trouble with reception and could
never see much especially in the summer. He had then bought a
freeview box from a local small TV shop, expecting magic results. Of
course he got nothing! Returning to the shop, they arranged for
their aerial installer to call to sort out the problem.
His old lady neighbour had taken a different approach, 2 or 3 years
before and had a sky dish fitted on her chimney and taken out a
"Family Pack" subscription so that she could watch Channels 1 to 5.
(More on this later). The other two bungalows were too close to the
trees, according to Sky and couldn't see the satellite so they were
stuck with terrestrial reception.

The aerial installer arrived and proceeded to "install" the aerial
mentioned before and facing it towards Hannington. This gave
absolutely unwatchable results with multi, multi ghosting on analogue
and therefore on the VCR but, to the customers delight, a "purfek"
picture with the "digi'ul" !!
Mr Talkative was delighted (even if it did cost £500 !!) and he told
his other three neighbours.
The old lady next door was delighted that she would no longer HAVE to
pay Sky to get channels 1 to 5 (!) and the aerial installer even
volunteered to take down her dish when she booked her own £500
installation.
The other two neighbours followed suit although one did cost a bit
less, presumably because the two joined together masts were retained!
The next part of the story was totally predictable. The signals
started to break up. ("Them was still perfek, you know, it's just
that summat had come a bit loose," he told me)
The "installer" was called back and he "tightened" the aerials.
Things went from bad to worse and apparently the "pikchers was still
"purfek" but "them was too bad to watch"!!
The installer came back and had a brain wave. He faced all four
aerials in the opposite direction to pick up Hannington as a
reflection from the hills, still through the trees. Analogue still
totally impossible but digital ok, sometimes, on some channels. And
that's where the aerials had stayed for some months.....until the
winds of the 18th Jan....

I found my customer's aerial lying on the back of the roof complete
with 16ft mast and 12"x12" single wall bracket and 50mm !!! coach
bolts and plastic plugs still attached. The top two courses of the
chimney and the concrete slab top had split off and rested on an
angle. The roof tiles had miraculously survived. It was the first
time that I had actually handled a DAT 75 aerial and it was
remarkably heavy.
I spent some time showing my customer and her neighbour why the
problem had occurred and saying what I thought! I don't think Mr
Talkative really understood the seriousness of it all and how
dangerous each installation was. He was more interested in telling me
that his picture had never been as good and that he wanted me to put
the old ladies' aerial back with longer bolts and that they wanted to
keep the aerials as they were as they had cost so much. At this point
he had to go off for a doctors' appointment, which was a bit of a
relief as I could concentrate on the job.
As it happened, once he had gone and the actual customer was allowed
to speak for herself, she was perfectly alert and communicative and
she told me that she had never been happy with such a large aerial on
the chimney and would I be able to fit it on the end wall? This was
going to be a much more sensible and secure idea but I had my doubts
that there would be any chance of getting a usable signal. I
explained that she could have a small dish and have all the main
channels free after buying a £20 card and she couldn't believe that
the other installer had not told her this. This would, of course,
have been a wasted visit for him. She had given her old Sky box away
and the "aerial man" had removed the dish and left it in the back
garden. To keep everyone happy and to satisfy my own curiosity, I
did test the terrestrial signal at every possible spot around the
house and garden but it was obvious that if I did reuse the aerial,
I would be in for constant callouts and hassle. To cut an even
longer story short, I explained that I would find a good used Sky
box and install her dish out of all harms way on the gable end of
the bungalow and order a Freesat card for channels 4 and 5.
I returned the following day and completed the job. Much to her
delight, the customer was back to her well-known Sky menus and one
remote handset rather than two, and she couldn't believe how many
channels she could get without any subscription.

Her neighbour, Mr Talkative, watched with interest as I did the whole
job and I reinforced my opinions about the aerials, the previous
installer, the dangers involved and the likely unreliability of the
signal etc, but he still chose to keep his aerial, as it was, tall
mast screwed to the chimney with 50mm bolts and plastic plugs and
cable flapping as he "didn't want to waste the money that he had paid
for it" !!! I wonder if the council would feel the same?

The other two neighbours came out from time to time to inspect
progress but made no mention of their plans so I thought it best to
leave them to check on the results with my customer and make up their
own minds.

Can't be arsed to read all that.
Can anyone give a one line summary?

No, can't be arsed to write one really...

--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)