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Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best
possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
k-man wrote:
I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin If you're wanting to have the audio from your DVD player playing through your receiver and not the TV, then, as you suggest, you should be able to mute the audio from your T.V. through a menu selection and use an optical cable to pickup the DVD audio. You will still need the HDMI cable for upscaling standard-def DVDs. Otherwise, you could just use component cables. R. Tarin |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:35:07 -0700, k-man wrote:
Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? In a word, yes. Don't have your DVD player, but pick the best audio out that the TV will accept. And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Turn the TV volume down when using the DVD player. Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Similarly, I also made the HDMI connection between my STB and my TV, as well as the (next) best audio out which I sent to the receiver. That way, when watching HDTV I can either use the TV's speakers or the Home theater set up |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp).
TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message oups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Michael is right about the lip-sync problem. It is understood that this has
been fixed in Ver 1.3 Wayne "Michael Walraven" wrote in message news:[email protected] For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp). TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message oups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:43:42 GMT, Randell Tarin
wrote: k-man wrote: I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin If you're wanting to have the audio from your DVD player playing through your receiver and not the TV, then, as you suggest, you should be able to mute the audio from your T.V. through a menu selection and use an optical cable to pickup the DVD audio. You will still need the HDMI cable for upscaling standard-def DVDs. Otherwise, you could just use component cables. Maybe someone can check my memory on this, but I'm pretty sure that I had to disconnect the HDMI cable that I temporarily ran from my DVD player to my TV because, once I had the HDMI cable connected, I could no longer set my (Sony Bravia) TV to one of its aspect ratios when watching DVDs. As I remember it, I'm pretty sure the problem was that I could no longer watch 4x3 DVDs at 4x3 ratio when the DVD player was connected via HDMI cable. Does that sound right or familiar to anyone? |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
I cannot comment directly on the Sony machine, I have a LG 42LB5DF 1080p TV,
LG DN798 DVD player. Using HDMI on this setup does not preclude any of the aspect ratios that the TV provides. (4:3 16:9 'set by program' and two zooms) Michael "dgates" wrote in message ... On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:43:42 GMT, Randell Tarin wrote: k-man wrote: I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin If you're wanting to have the audio from your DVD player playing through your receiver and not the TV, then, as you suggest, you should be able to mute the audio from your T.V. through a menu selection and use an optical cable to pickup the DVD audio. You will still need the HDMI cable for upscaling standard-def DVDs. Otherwise, you could just use component cables. Maybe someone can check my memory on this, but I'm pretty sure that I had to disconnect the HDMI cable that I temporarily ran from my DVD player to my TV because, once I had the HDMI cable connected, I could no longer set my (Sony Bravia) TV to one of its aspect ratios when watching DVDs. As I remember it, I'm pretty sure the problem was that I could no longer watch 4x3 DVDs at 4x3 ratio when the DVD player was connected via HDMI cable. Does that sound right or familiar to anyone? |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
You asked me about more details for my setup. I have a Sharp Aquos
LC-46D62U (it's got 2 HDMI inputs) and I'm picking up digital signals over the air. No cable, no cable box. The amp I'm thinking of getting is an Onkyo SR605. I might be able to just run everything through that amp's HDMI input (2 HDMI's in, 1 out). But I don't yet fully understand how that amp will treat the video signal (whether it will attempt to upscale it or what). That's why I wanted to know about running HDMI directly to the TV and re-routing audio from the TV back to the amp (just to do some homework, see what my options will be). Someone else mentioned that the OPPO 981 has additional audio outputs (besides the HDMI feed). So, I might be better off just running audio from the DVD player to the amp directly. Also, because of being reminded about the copy protection circuitry, now I'm even wondering if I would be able to use the optical audio out from the TV if I'm using an HDMI source. I should check the manual again. For HDMI cables, right... you don't need anything fancy. It's a digital signal. If you're able to get a picture and there are no drop- out's, you're golden. Thanks again. Kevin On Jul 11, 9:27 am, "Michael Walraven" wrote: For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp). TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message oups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Version 1.3 of what, HDMI? How?
Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 9:41 am, "WGD" wrote: Michael is right about the lip-sync problem. It is understood that this has been fixed in Ver 1.3 Wayne "Michael Walraven" wrote in message news:[email protected] For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp). TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message roups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
"k-man" wrote in message ups.com... You asked me about more details for my setup. I have a Sharp Aquos LC-46D62U (it's got 2 HDMI inputs) and I'm picking up digital signals over the air. No cable, no cable box. The amp I'm thinking of getting is an Onkyo SR605. I might be able to just run everything through that amp's HDMI input (2 HDMI's in, 1 out). But I don't yet fully understand how that amp will treat the video signal (whether it will attempt to upscale it or what). That's why I wanted to know about running HDMI directly to the TV and re-routing audio from the TV back to the amp (just to do some homework, see what my options will be). Someone else mentioned that the OPPO 981 has additional audio outputs (besides the HDMI feed). So, I might be better off just running audio from the DVD player to the amp directly. Also, because of being reminded about the copy protection circuitry, now I'm even wondering if I would be able to use the optical audio out from the TV if I'm using an HDMI source. I should check the manual again. For HDMI cables, right... you don't need anything fancy. It's a digital signal. If you're able to get a picture and there are no drop- out's, you're golden. I have the Onkyo SR605 and a Panny Plasma. For HDMI inputs the SR605 will directly pass the video signals with no processing. The SR605 only applies video processing on analog inputs to allow 720p on the HDMI output. You will also need to send the TVs audio back to the SR605 for over the air programming (optical or analog). The SR605 has worked flawlessly so far, and has excellent sound. |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
HDMI Ver 1.3 Off the top, do not know how. However, did read, will look
for link that describes the How. "k-man" wrote in message ups.com... Version 1.3 of what, HDMI? How? Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 9:41 am, "WGD" wrote: Michael is right about the lip-sync problem. It is understood that this has been fixed in Ver 1.3 Wayne "Michael Walraven" wrote in message news:[email protected] For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp). TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message roups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Found this at an HDMI link:
Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy. Yes, it would be interesting to know How. "k-man" wrote in message ups.com... Version 1.3 of what, HDMI? How? Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 9:41 am, "WGD" wrote: Michael is right about the lip-sync problem. It is understood that this has been fixed in Ver 1.3 Wayne "Michael Walraven" wrote in message news:[email protected] For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp). TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message roups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
GoTo: http://www.abccables.com/info-lip-sync.html for more about lip
sync. "k-man" wrote in message ups.com... Version 1.3 of what, HDMI? How? Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 9:41 am, "WGD" wrote: Michael is right about the lip-sync problem. It is understood that this has been fixed in Ver 1.3 Wayne "Michael Walraven" wrote in message news:[email protected] For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp). TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message roups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:23:32 GMT, "WGD"
wrote: Found this at an HDMI link: Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy. Yes, it would be interesting to know How. As I understand, the display passes information back to the source on how many milliseconds it delays the video. The source then sets the audio delay automatically. So it's the same kind of function we use in Surround amplifiers today but it can be set more accurately (easier) and it would also change if the amount of delay varies with different processing. (It still requires that the material is correct and that the broadcaster or user equipment doesn't ruin the syncronisation). /Jan |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:43:42 GMT Randell Tarin wrote:
| If you're wanting to have the audio from your DVD player playing through | your receiver and not the TV, then, as you suggest, you should be able | to mute the audio from your T.V. through a menu selection and use an | optical cable to pickup the DVD audio. You will still need the HDMI | cable for upscaling standard-def DVDs. Otherwise, you could just use | component cables. You mean the TV will just show SD DVDs in a tiny window and not upscale them to full screen size for inputs other than HDMI? -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0700 dgates wrote:
| Maybe someone can check my memory on this, but I'm pretty sure that I | had to disconnect the HDMI cable that I temporarily ran from my DVD | player to my TV because, once I had the HDMI cable connected, I could | no longer set my (Sony Bravia) TV to one of its aspect ratios when | watching DVDs. | | As I remember it, I'm pretty sure the problem was that I could no | longer watch 4x3 DVDs at 4x3 ratio when the DVD player was connected | via HDMI cable. | | Does that sound right or familiar to anyone? 1. Not right in the sense that it is a bad design, worthy of publicly flogging the engineering team and their product managers. 2. Certainly familiar that these designers do make screwups of that scale very frequently. -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:27:16 GMT Michael Walraven wrote:
| If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can | have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead | then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected | DVDs (a legal thing). So let the TV set do the upconversion. What a silly concept. There's no new information gained from upconversion. It's original information they need to protect. This shows you the level of intelligence of these content producers and why they should be put out of business. | Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go | to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 | plus $6 shipping. Not even from Chi^H^H^HWalMart which charges $12. -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:41:48 GMT WGD wrote:
| Michael is right about the lip-sync problem. It is understood that this has | been fixed in Ver 1.3 If they had designed a cabling system that packetized the video and audio together, this would never have been a problem in the first place. Copy protection would still work over this by encrypting those packets and use a low bandwidth return stream to do all the display authentication steps. Of course the manufacturers would not want to let people just use good ole 75 ohm coax, which is all it would need, as they need to find more ways to rape the concumers' wallets and pocketbooks. -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:23:32 GMT WGD wrote:
| Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly | complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the | content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a | greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user | adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching | capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically | with accuracy. It's not the cable that gets things out of sync. It is the processing circuitry itself. If that circuitry were to ensure that audio and video were tagged together, this would not be a problem. Putting time tags on the audio and video in the transport protocol coming over the wire might be a convenience to such circuitry, but it is by no means necessary since that circuitry could apply any arbitrary sequencing of numbers itself. All that is necessary is that at every step any equipment puts out audio and video together, it must put them out already in sync. It's not the cable that can bring them back in sync. The cable cannot do that. The interface to the cable might, but that is absolutely the wrong place to put it. This is nothing more than an attempt to shake down consumers for even more cash by forcing them to buy something even newer that very likely gains them nothing at all (just fix the broken circuitry that is getting things out of sync). -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
www.crutchfield.com
has a good description of the difference if HDMI: 1.0, 1.1 and 1.3 at the present time most things use the 1.1 HDMI ~J~ |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Jul 11, 7:23 pm, "WGD" wrote:
Found this at an HDMI link: Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy. Yes, it would be interesting to know How. "k-man" wrote in message ups.com... Version 1.3 of what, HDMI? How? Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 9:41 am, "WGD" wrote: Michael is right about the lip-sync problem. It is understood that this has been fixed in Ver 1.3 Wayne "Michael Walraven" wrote in message news:[email protected] For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp). TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message roups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run Thanks for the follow-up. Kevin HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Phil:
Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I interpreted it in this particular message. Kevin On Jul 12, 8:36 am, wrote: On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:23:32 GMT WGD wrote: | Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly | complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the | content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a | greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user | adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching | capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically | with accuracy. It's not the cable that gets things out of sync. It is the processing circuitry itself. If that circuitry were to ensure that audio and video were tagged together, this would not be a problem. Putting time tags on the audio and video in the transport protocol coming over the wire might be a convenience to such circuitry, but it is by no means necessary since that circuitry could apply any arbitrary sequencing of numbers itself. All that is necessary is that at every step any equipment puts out audio and video together, it must put them out already in sync. It's not the cable that can bring them back in sync. The cable cannot do that. The interface to the cable might, but that is absolutely the wrong place to put it. This is nothing more than an attempt to shake down consumers for even more cash by forcing them to buy something even newer that very likely gains them nothing at all (just fix the broken circuitry that is getting things out of sync). -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------*| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------*| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Thank you.
Kevin On Jul 11, 7:25 pm, "WGD" wrote: GoTo: http://www.abccables.com/info-lip-sync.html for more about lip sync. "k-man" wrote in message ups.com... Version 1.3 of what, HDMI? How? Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 9:41 am, "WGD" wrote: Michael is right about the lip-sync problem. It is understood that this has been fixed in Ver 1.3 Wayne "Michael Walraven" wrote in message news:[email protected] For my setup (TV - off the air antenna,DVD player, Receiver/Amp). TV has 'speaker - OFF' (in menu), this is different than 'mute'. Optical cable for audio from TV to receiver (used for OTA TV reception) HDMI from DVD player to TV (also carries audio, but not used as speaker in TV is OFF) Optical cable from DVD Player to receiver for audio. Supposedly there can be a lip sync problem if you send Standard DVD to the TV where the TV does the up converting to its native resolution and send the audio to your receiver. It is possible that the processing time in the TV is long enough to notice that the sound comes out before the picture. If you use the up converting in the DVD player instead then again supposedly that can be compensated for. I doubt that is the case, however I have never done any side/side comparisons - from whence come flame wars. If you use HDMI from up converting DVD player to a new HD TV, then you can have the up converter do its job on all DVD's. If you use component instead then the DVD player will not up convert to HD parameters for copy protected DVDs (a legal thing). For your setup of just DVD player and TV no amp at present, run HDMI from DVD player to TV, will carry audio along, use TV speakers (note that in general they are not particularly good.) You did not mention what other source you will use (antenna, cable etc) however if you are using a settop box that has HDMI out then you will also want to use that, meaning that your TV should have at least 2 HDMI inputs. Do NOT buy your HDMI cables from your local TV store! Way too expensive. Go to the net and buy there. I got a 6' HDMI from an Amazon.com link for $2 plus $6 shipping. Michael "k-man" wrote in message roups.com... I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? Thanks! Kevin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Thanks. I actually just ordered the silver version. Some reviews
said that the conversion to 720p isn't so hot. Some reviews also said that that receiver downgrades 1080i component connection to 720p. Options in that case are to disable the DCDi circuitry or run HDMI directly from the source to the TV (for the video). And thanks in part to these discussions in this thread, I know more about how to handle the audio. Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 5:53 pm, "go_dawgs" wrote: "k-man" wrote in message ups.com... You asked me about more details for my setup. I have a Sharp Aquos LC-46D62U (it's got 2 HDMI inputs) and I'm picking up digital signals over the air. No cable, no cable box. The amp I'm thinking of getting is an Onkyo SR605. I might be able to just run everything through that amp's HDMI input (2 HDMI's in, 1 out). But I don't yet fully understand how that amp will treat the video signal (whether it will attempt to upscale it or what). That's why I wanted to know about running HDMI directly to the TV and re-routing audio from the TV back to the amp (just to do some homework, see what my options will be). Someone else mentioned that the OPPO 981 has additional audio outputs (besides the HDMI feed). So, I might be better off just running audio from the DVD player to the amp directly. Also, because of being reminded about the copy protection circuitry, now I'm even wondering if I would be able to use the optical audio out from the TV if I'm using an HDMI source. I should check the manual again. For HDMI cables, right... you don't need anything fancy. It's a digital signal. If you're able to get a picture and there are no drop- out's, you're golden. I have the Onkyo SR605 and a Panny Plasma. For HDMI inputs the SR605 will directly pass the video signals with no processing. The SR605 only applies video processing on analog inputs to allow 720p on the HDMI output. You will also need to send the TVs audio back to the SR605 for over the air programming (optical or analog). The SR605 has worked flawlessly so far, and has excellent sound.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Jul 11, 10:24 am, (Neill Massello) wrote:
k-man wrote: I'm thinking of getting the latest Oppo DVD player and, for the best possible picture, connecting it via HDMI directly to my new HD LCD. Question: What do I do with the audio? My TV's got an optical-out. Do I feed the optical-out from my TV into my receiver (which I also don't have yet)? Is that going to cause sync problems? Or, do I run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and, at the same time, run fiber from the DVD player to the receiver (if it even lets me do that)? And, if I do that, then what becomes of the audio from the HDMI connection? Maybe my TV's got a "no audio" feature besides mute (I guess for that I can check the TV's menu). Anyhow, anybody have any insight, anybody dealt with a similar scenario? The Oppo 981 has optical and coaxial digital audio outputs. Most AV receivers now have more than one optical input. Some TVs don't pass through digital audio from their HDMI inputs to their optical digital output. Mine doesn't, so I use a separate path for digital audio to my receiver. I've never noticed any audio sync problems with DVDs on my Oppo 981, only with some digital OTA broadcasts. Thanks. That's good info for me. Thank you. Kevin |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:38:06 -0000 k-man wrote:
| Phil: | | Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From | WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I | interpreted it in this particular message. So you are saying the cable is not the source of the problem? Yet why is the cable being fixed to correct the problem? If something is doing some processing in the wrong way, then fix that processing. -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
k-man wrote:
Thanks. I actually just ordered the silver version. assuming an Onkyo SR605 DVD player (?), what made you choose that over the OPPO 981? bill Some reviews said that the conversion to 720p isn't so hot. Some reviews also said that that receiver downgrades 1080i component connection to 720p. Options in that case are to disable the DCDi circuitry or run HDMI directly from the source to the TV (for the video). And thanks in part to these discussions in this thread, I know more about how to handle the audio. Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 5:53 pm, "go_dawgs" wrote: "k-man" wrote in message roups.com... You asked me about more details for my setup. I have a Sharp Aquos LC-46D62U (it's got 2 HDMI inputs) and I'm picking up digital signals over the air. No cable, no cable box. The amp I'm thinking of getting is an Onkyo SR605. I might be able to just run everything through that amp's HDMI input (2 HDMI's in, 1 out). But I don't yet fully understand how that amp will treat the video signal (whether it will attempt to upscale it or what). That's why I wanted to know about running HDMI directly to the TV and re-routing audio from the TV back to the amp (just to do some homework, see what my options will be). Someone else mentioned that the OPPO 981 has additional audio outputs (besides the HDMI feed). So, I might be better off just running audio from the DVD player to the amp directly. Also, because of being reminded about the copy protection circuitry, now I'm even wondering if I would be able to use the optical audio out from the TV if I'm using an HDMI source. I should check the manual again. For HDMI cables, right... you don't need anything fancy. It's a digital signal. If you're able to get a picture and there are no drop- out's, you're golden. I have the Onkyo SR605 and a Panny Plasma. For HDMI inputs the SR605 will directly pass the video signals with no processing. The SR605 only applies video processing on analog inputs to allow 720p on the HDMI output. You will also need to send the TVs audio back to the SR605 for over the air programming (optical or analog). The SR605 has worked flawlessly so far, and has excellent sound.- Hide quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Hi Phil:
I still don't understand. I don't know anything about a cable being fixed. Maybe I missed someone's post; but all I recall about a cable is that someone said to not buy an expensive HDMI cable, which was sort an "aside" comment. Kevin On Jul 13, 8:19 am, wrote: On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:38:06 -0000 k-man wrote: | Phil: | | Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From | WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I | interpreted it in this particular message. So you are saying the cable is not the source of the problem? Yet why is the cable being fixed to correct the problem? If something is doing some processing in the wrong way, then fix that processing. -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
The Onkyo SR605 is a receiver/amp, not a DVD player.
Kevin On Jul 14, 1:25 am, willbill wrote: k-man wrote: Thanks. I actually just ordered the silver version. assuming an Onkyo SR605 DVD player (?), what made you choose that over the OPPO 981? bill Some reviews said that the conversion to 720p isn't so hot. Some reviews also said that that receiver downgrades 1080i component connection to 720p. Options in that case are to disable the DCDi circuitry or run HDMI directly from the source to the TV (for the video). And thanks in part to these discussions in this thread, I know more about how to handle the audio. Thanks. Kevin On Jul 11, 5:53 pm, "go_dawgs" wrote: "k-man" wrote in message roups.com... You asked me about more details for my setup. I have a Sharp Aquos LC-46D62U (it's got 2 HDMI inputs) and I'm picking up digital signals over the air. No cable, no cable box. The amp I'm thinking of getting is an Onkyo SR605. I might be able to just run everything through that amp's HDMI input (2 HDMI's in, 1 out). But I don't yet fully understand how that amp will treat the video signal (whether it will attempt to upscale it or what). That's why I wanted to know about running HDMI directly to the TV and re-routing audio from the TV back to the amp (just to do some homework, see what my options will be). Someone else mentioned that the OPPO 981 has additional audio outputs (besides the HDMI feed). So, I might be better off just running audio from the DVD player to the amp directly. Also, because of being reminded about the copy protection circuitry, now I'm even wondering if I would be able to use the optical audio out from the TV if I'm using an HDMI source. I should check the manual again. For HDMI cables, right... you don't need anything fancy. It's a digital signal. If you're able to get a picture and there are no drop- out's, you're golden. I have the Onkyo SR605 and a Panny Plasma. For HDMI inputs the SR605 will directly pass the video signals with no processing. The SR605 only applies video processing on analog inputs to allow 720p on the HDMI output. You will also need to send the TVs audio back to the SR605 for over the air programming (optical or analog). The SR605 has worked flawlessly so far, and has excellent sound.- Hide quoted text - |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
k-man wrote:
The Onkyo SR605 is a receiver/amp, not a DVD player. ah out of honest curiosity, how many optical inputs does it have for multichannel digital audio? anyways... if you haven't yet gotten the DVD player, go with the OPPO 980. it does a great uprez job (so long as your TV has an HDMI input), and plays every disk out there, with the exception of DVD-RAM bill |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
k-man wrote:
Hi Phil: I still don't understand. I don't know anything about a cable being fixed. HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to avoid lip sync issues. On Jul 13, 8:19 am, wrote: On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:38:06 -0000 k-man wrote: | Phil: | | Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From | WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I | interpreted it in this particular message. So you are saying the cable is not the source of the problem? Yet why is the cable being fixed to correct the problem? If something is doing some processing in the wrong way, then fix that processing. It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1, but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3. Matthew -- I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one. Which one do you want? |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:37:31 -0400 Matthew L. Martin wrote:
| HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates | higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV | specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing | delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This | allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to | avoid lip sync issues. The display would be able to do something like tell the player "hey, I am delaying the video by 851.375 milliseconds, so you should delay audio to the stereo system by the same amount so the organics won't know I'm so slow at this". It would really suck for games, though. | It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard | that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the | protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for | the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a | change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical | changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1, | but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3. They should have ... from the very beginning ... just used 75 ohm coax for the connection. They can still encrypt the data stream and do two-way communications. With multilevel signals, the bandwidth can be quite high. The audio should have been transmitted with the video, and time tagged. Then the audio output to stereo systems would be from the display itself, instead of requiring _every_ source device having to incorporate a delay mechanism. Additionally, a multi-device protocol would allow the source to device to receive multiple display device keys over the same coax, and send multiple decode keys in the main band signal. Then you can have a multi-room system on one coax output (of the same program content). But no ... the cable and connector manufacturers have to come up with yet a new and more expensive standard. -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Ahhhhh, I see now about the change in the cable. I didn't realize
exactly the new spec details. I thought it was just a protocol change. I got it now. Thanks Kevin On Jul 14, 8:37 pm, "Matthew L. Martin" wrote: k-man wrote: Hi Phil: I still don't understand. I don't know anything about a cable being fixed. HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to avoid lip sync issues. On Jul 13, 8:19 am, wrote: On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:38:06 -0000 k-man wrote: | Phil: | | Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From | WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I | interpreted it in this particular message. So you are saying the cable is not the source of the problem? Yet why is the cable being fixed to correct the problem? If something is doing some processing in the wrong way, then fix that processing. It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1, but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3. Matthew -- I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one. Which one do you want? |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
I understand about the cable change now. Thanks.
Kevin On Jul 14, 11:13 pm, wrote: On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:37:31 -0400 Matthew L. Martin wrote: | HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates | higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV | specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing | delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This | allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to | avoid lip sync issues. The display would be able to do something like tell the player "hey, I am delaying the video by 851.375 milliseconds, so you should delay audio to the stereo system by the same amount so the organics won't know I'm so slow at this". It would really suck for games, though. | It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard | that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the | protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for | the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a | change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical | changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1, | but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3. They should have ... from the very beginning ... just used 75 ohm coax for the connection. They can still encrypt the data stream and do two-way communications. With multilevel signals, the bandwidth can be quite high. The audio should have been transmitted with the video, and time tagged. Then the audio output to stereo systems would be from the display itself, instead of requiring _every_ source device having to incorporate a delay mechanism. Additionally, a multi-device protocol would allow the source to device to receive multiple display device keys over the same coax, and send multiple decode keys in the main band signal. Then you can have a multi-room system on one coax output (of the same program content). But no ... the cable and connector manufacturers have to come up with yet a new and more expensive standard. -- |---------------------------------------/----------------------------------*| | Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below | | first name lower case at ipal.net / | |------------------------------------/-------------------------------------*| |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
Bill:
I think it's got two optical inputs. The OPPO definitely looks good. The Onkyo's supposed to arrive tomorrow. It's DCDi circuitry's supposed to upres 480i to 480p. I'll hook up my very old (not even progressive) DVD player to it just to see how it looks. BUt first I think I need to order an HDMI cable. I don't think the receiver comes with one. Kevin On Jul 14, 8:21 pm, willbill wrote: k-man wrote: The Onkyo SR605 is a receiver/amp, not a DVD player. ah out of honest curiosity, how many optical inputs does it have for multichannel digital audio? anyways... if you haven't yet gotten the DVD player, go with the OPPO 980. it does a great uprez job (so long as your TV has an HDMI input), and plays every disk out there, with the exception of DVD-RAM bill |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
k-man wrote:
Bill: I think it's got two optical inputs. agreed as well as at least one coax digital audio input, not to mention the 2 HDMI inputs. after my last post, i went to www.us.onkyo.com and took a quick glance at your new SR605 A/V receiver in my experience/knowledge (admittedly still limited), 2 fiber/optical and 2 HDMI should be adequate for "high end" multichannel sound. :) plus if you get additional DVD players/recorders (i've got 3 total) you can always fall back to coax digital audio input The OPPO definitely looks good. the reason i bought the OPPO 981 was my long interest in sound. both the 970 ($149) and 981 ($229) play multichannel SACD and DVD-A (DVD-Audio). of the two, as far as i know at this point, the SACD has the higher sound fidelity and bigger selection of real music of all kinds (i've gotten only 5 SACD audio disks so far, and can add that the sound is rather excellent compared to the best CDs). my A/V Receiver (AVR; a Denon 2307CI) is recent but "older" in terms of specs than the very new Onkyo SR605 that you got, but still slightly more "upscale" in the number of I/O options on the back of the unit, meaning that for sound it has 4 optical inputs, 2 coax, 2 HDMI (ver 1.1), *and* an external-in 5.1 set (6 RCA input jacks, for a player (like the OPPO 981 that has 6 multichannel audio *output* jacks) if you have any interest in getting SACD disks, odds are you'll have to buy online from: 1. http://store.acousticsounds.com/store.cfm 2. www.amazon.com 3. www.tower.com if that's an interest for you, before you do it (i.e. buy an OPPO 981 (the 970 doesn't look to me like an option for you)), i suggest strongly that you call OPPO on the telephone. i've done that once so far and got useful answers and was overall quite impressed with their phone support (less than a minute wait time) and the accurateness of their answers. the question is: given that you don't have 5.1 RCA input jacks on your AVR, will you be able to carry decoded SACD sound via the OPPO's HDMI output cable, *and* will your AVR be able to understand that it is already decoded? The Onkyo's supposed to arrive tomorrow. that should be interesting. :) good luck with getting it set up. :) assuming you're going to hook it up yourself, it looks to me that you've got a lot of options/ alternatives on how you actually do it e.g. my on-line glance (yesterday) at your AVR suggests to me that it may be more convenient than mine in terms of handling both video/audio via the AVR's remote. i decided to use my TV (a very recent Vizio 32") to do my video switching, and my Denon AVR to do my audio switching. fwiw, i currently have 4 multichannel audio inputs into the AVR: 3 non-decoded optical (TV and 2 Panasonic DVD recorders) and the decoded ext-in via the 6 RCA jacks i can add that when i got my Denon i spent 5 hours (!) trying to get it to work and struck out! i've done computer s/w all my professional life so i have good understanding of complexity. after sleeping on it i turned to the troubleshooting at the back of the manual and finally found page 49 where the digital audio input options is shown you might consider posting your own experience. :) i for one would find it useful/interesting It's DCDi circuitry's supposed to upres 480i to 480p. i'm not sure what DCDi means, but given that you appear to have a recent 46" Aquos, upres of 480i to 480p by the AVR isn't much. what caught my eye is that your new AVR specs mentioned "Faroudja" which suggested to me that your new AVR may do upresing to 720p or 1080i (or 1080p), whichever is the native res of your 46" Aquos flatscreen if that's true, then the OPPO 981 may not have much to offer you. i bought it coz of it's ability to handle all disks that i've recorded on my PC (with the exception of DVD-RAM), as well as it's player ability to upres to 720p (my Vizio 32's native), and especially it's SACD/DVD-A capabilities I'll hook up my very old (not even progressive) DVD player to it just to see how it looks. BUt first I think I need to order an HDMI cable. I don't think the receiver comes with one. the OPPO 981 comes with an excellent 6' HDMI cable. given the size of your 46" Aquos, you may need a 10' HDMI (or longer) i got mine at www.monoprice.com and plan to buy from them again bill |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Jul 16, 3:07 pm, willbill wrote:
k-man wrote: Bill: I think it's got two optical inputs. agreed as well as at least one coax digital audio input, not to mention the 2 HDMI inputs. after my last post, i went towww.us.onkyo.comand took a quick glance at your new SR605 A/V receiver in my experience/knowledge (admittedly still limited), 2 fiber/optical and 2 HDMI should be adequate for "high end" multichannel sound. :) plus if you get additional DVD players/recorders (i've got 3 total) you can always fall back to coax digital audio input The OPPO definitely looks good. the reason i bought the OPPO 981 was my long interest in sound. both the 970 ($149) and 981 ($229) play multichannel SACD and DVD-A (DVD-Audio). of the two, as far as i know at this point, the SACD has the higher sound fidelity and bigger selection of real music of all kinds (i've gotten only 5 SACD audio disks so far, and can add that the sound is rather excellent compared to the best CDs). my A/V Receiver (AVR; a Denon 2307CI) is recent but "older" in terms of specs than the very new Onkyo SR605 that you got, but still slightly more "upscale" in the number of I/O options on the back of the unit, meaning that for sound it has 4 optical inputs, 2 coax, 2 HDMI (ver 1.1), *and* an external-in 5.1 set (6 RCA input jacks, for a player (like the OPPO 981 that has 6 multichannel audio *output* jacks) if you have any interest in getting SACD disks, odds are you'll have to buy online from: 1.http://store.acousticsounds.com/store.cfm 2.www.amazon.com 3.www.tower.com if that's an interest for you, before you do it (i.e. buy an OPPO 981 (the 970 doesn't look to me like an option for you)), i suggest strongly that you call OPPO on the telephone. i've done that once so far and got useful answers and was overall quite impressed with their phone support (less than a minute wait time) and the accurateness of their answers. the question is: given that you don't have 5.1 RCA input jacks on your AVR, will you be able to carry decoded SACD sound via the OPPO's HDMI output cable, *and* will your AVR be able to understand that it is already decoded? The Onkyo's supposed to arrive tomorrow. that should be interesting. :) good luck with getting it set up. :) assuming you're going to hook it up yourself, it looks to me that you've got a lot of options/ alternatives on how you actually do it e.g. my on-line glance (yesterday) at your AVR suggests to me that it may be more convenient than mine in terms of handling both video/audio via the AVR's remote. i decided to use my TV (a very recent Vizio 32") to do my video switching, and my Denon AVR to do my audio switching. fwiw, i currently have 4 multichannel audio inputs into the AVR: 3 non-decoded optical (TV and 2 Panasonic DVD recorders) and the decoded ext-in via the 6 RCA jacks i can add that when i got my Denon i spent 5 hours (!) trying to get it to work and struck out! i've done computer s/w all my professional life so i have good understanding of complexity. after sleeping on it i turned to the troubleshooting at the back of the manual and finally found page 49 where the digital audio input options is shown you might consider posting your own experience. :) i for one would find it useful/interesting It's DCDi circuitry's supposed to upres 480i to 480p. i'm not sure what DCDi means, but given that you appear to have a recent 46" Aquos, upres of 480i to 480p by the AVR isn't much. what caught my eye is that your new AVR specs mentioned "Faroudja" which suggested to me that your new AVR may do upresing to 720p or 1080i (or 1080p), whichever is the native res of your 46" Aquos flatscreen DCDi is an algorithm used for deinterlacing. With the Faroudja chip/ circuitry, it doesn't automatically mean that you get everything converted to 1080p. It depends on how the Faroudja chip's being used. I think my Onkyo converts 480i to 480p so you can use the HDMI output. 480p should also be smoother visually. A site somewhere mentioned a "trick" to get the receiver to do 720p but they said that it only did a so-so job of doing that. Native res for my Aquos is 1080p. If you put a 1080p signal into the receiver, the receiver will not attempt to upscale it but will simply pass the signal along to the TV. More info on DCDi: http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_335.html if that's true, then the OPPO 981 may not have much to offer you. i bought it coz of it's ability to handle all disks that i've recorded on my PC (with the exception of DVD-RAM), as well as it's player ability to upres to 720p (my Vizio 32's native), and especially it's SACD/DVD-A capabilities I think I would still benefit from the OPPO 981 because of the upscaling to 1080p and its other features. I'll hook up my very old (not even progressive) DVD player to it just to see how it looks. BUt first I think I need to order an HDMI cable. I don't think the receiver comes with one. the OPPO 981 comes with an excellent 6' HDMI cable. given the size of your 46" Aquos, you may need a 10' HDMI (or longer) i got mine atwww.monoprice.comand plan to buy from them again That seems to be well-known site for cables as I just ordered some from there as well. I went with a couple 3-ft cables but I might have to go with a 6. I could use the 6' from the OPPO and use the 3ft to connect to the OPPO to the reciever since they're going to be sitting close together. There's also a site called ehdmi.com and I think it's the same store as monoprice.com -- same layout, same catalog numbers, same prices, etc. bill Kevin |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Jul 16, 3:07 pm, willbill wrote:
k-man wrote: Bill: I think it's got two optical inputs. agreed as well as at least one coax digital audio input, not to mention the 2 HDMI inputs. after my last post, i went towww.us.onkyo.comand took a quick glance at your new SR605 A/V receiver in my experience/knowledge (admittedly still limited), 2 fiber/optical and 2 HDMI should be adequate for "high end" multichannel sound. :) plus if you get additional DVD players/recorders (i've got 3 total) you can always fall back to coax digital audio input The OPPO definitely looks good. the reason i bought the OPPO 981 was my long interest in sound. both the 970 ($149) and 981 ($229) play multichannel SACD and DVD-A (DVD-Audio). of the two, as far as i know at this point, the SACD has the higher sound fidelity and bigger selection of real music of all kinds (i've gotten only 5 SACD audio disks so far, and can add that the sound is rather excellent compared to the best CDs). my A/V Receiver (AVR; a Denon 2307CI) is recent but "older" in terms of specs than the very new Onkyo SR605 that you got, but still slightly more "upscale" in the number of I/O options on the back of the unit, meaning that for sound it has 4 optical inputs, 2 coax, 2 HDMI (ver 1.1), *and* an external-in 5.1 set (6 RCA input jacks, for a player (like the OPPO 981 that has 6 multichannel audio *output* jacks) if you have any interest in getting SACD disks, odds are you'll have to buy online from: 1.http://store.acousticsounds.com/store.cfm 2.www.amazon.com 3.www.tower.com if that's an interest for you, before you do it (i.e. buy an OPPO 981 (the 970 doesn't look to me like an option for you)), i suggest strongly that you call OPPO on the telephone. i've done that once so far and got useful answers and was overall quite impressed with their phone support (less than a minute wait time) and the accurateness of their answers. the question is: given that you don't have 5.1 RCA input jacks on your AVR, will you be able to carry decoded SACD sound via the OPPO's HDMI output cable, *and* will your AVR be able to understand that it is already decoded? The Onkyo's supposed to arrive tomorrow. that should be interesting. :) good luck with getting it set up. :) assuming you're going to hook it up yourself, it looks to me that you've got a lot of options/ alternatives on how you actually do it e.g. my on-line glance (yesterday) at your AVR suggests to me that it may be more convenient than mine in terms of handling both video/audio via the AVR's remote. i decided to use my TV (a very recent Vizio 32") to do my video switching, and my Denon AVR to do my audio switching. fwiw, i currently have 4 multichannel audio inputs into the AVR: 3 non-decoded optical (TV and 2 Panasonic DVD recorders) and the decoded ext-in via the 6 RCA jacks i can add that when i got my Denon i spent 5 hours (!) trying to get it to work and struck out! i've done computer s/w all my professional life so i have good understanding of complexity. after sleeping on it i turned to the troubleshooting at the back of the manual and finally found page 49 where the digital audio input options is shown you might consider posting your own experience. :) i for one would find it useful/interesting It's DCDi circuitry's supposed to upres 480i to 480p. i'm not sure what DCDi means, but given that you appear to have a recent 46" Aquos, upres of 480i to 480p by the AVR isn't much. what caught my eye is that your new AVR specs mentioned "Faroudja" which suggested to me that your new AVR may do upresing to 720p or 1080i (or 1080p), whichever is the native res of your 46" Aquos flatscreen The OPPO 981 would still be beneficial to me since it does (a very good job of) upscaling to 1080p. The Onkyo I got has the Faroudja chip but only uses it to convert 480i to 480p. There's a "trick" you can do to get the receiver to convert 480i to 720p but I hear it doesn't do a great job of doing that. For 1080p, if my Onkyo sees a 1080p signal, it won't try to do any conversions on it but will simply pass it through to the monitor. DCDi is a deinterlacing algorthm. The Faroudja chip does it but just because something contains the Faroudja chip it doesn't automatically mean that you'll get 1080p from it. It all depends on how the hardware uses the chip/circuitry. More info on DCDi if you're interested: http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_335.html if that's true, then the OPPO 981 may not have much to offer you. i bought it coz of it's ability to handle all disks that i've recorded on my PC (with the exception of DVD-RAM), as well as it's player ability to upres to 720p (my Vizio 32's native), and especially it's SACD/DVD-A capabilities I still think the OPPO will be beneficial to me with it's 1080p upconversion and it's other features. I'll hook up my very old (not even progressive) DVD player to it just to see how it looks. BUt first I think I need to order an HDMI cable. I don't think the receiver comes with one. the OPPO 981 comes with an excellent 6' HDMI cable. given the size of your 46" Aquos, you may need a 10' HDMI (or longer) i got mine atwww.monoprice.comand plan to buy from them again I happened to order cables from monoprice as well. Good stuff. ehdmi.com has similar pricing. In fact, it has the exact same pricing and even the same catalog layout and part numbers. It's probably just another front end to the same store. Anyway... thanks for all the info. bill Kevin |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Jul 14, 8:37 pm, "Matthew L. Martin" wrote:
k-man wrote: Hi Phil: I still don't understand. I don't know anything about a cable being fixed. HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to avoidlip syncissues. On Jul 13, 8:19 am, wrote: On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:38:06 -0000 k-man wrote: | Phil: | | Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From | WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I | interpreted it in this particular message. So you are saying the cable is not the source of theproblem? Yet why is the cable being fixed to correct theproblem? If something is doing some processing in the wrong way, then fix that processing. It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1, but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3. Matthew -- I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one. Which one do you want? I just want to reinforce what Matthew said about HDMI 1.3's lip sync feature since so many people think that it really is "automatic lip- sync correction" and it isn't. That's definitely a misnomer since automatic lip-sync icorrection is actually impossible due to the fact that there is nothing in the signals to define when they are or were ever in sync. As Matthew said the HDMI 1.3 feature is just a protocol (within the EDID handshaking) allowing the dispaly to tell its source the fixed delay it will add so the source (a/v receiver) can delay the audio that same fixed amount but that won't solve about half of the lip-sync problem because it varies from program to program and DVD to DVD. In fact, most av receivers already have a delay feature you can set to offset a fixed screen delay in a minute or two one time and all the new HDMI feature does is set it for you saving you those few minutes once since it's not going to change as long as you have the same display. What's really needed is a way to adjust the delay in small increments while watching without upsetting your program or movie and so far I haven't seen any av receivers -HDMI 1.3 or otherwise that do that which has created the market for the dedicated audio delays reviewed he http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=3011 |
Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?
On Jul 12, 1:19 am, Jan B wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:23:32 GMT, "WGD" wrote: Found this at an HDMI link: Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy. Yes, it would be interesting to know How. As I understand, the display passes information back to the source on how many milliseconds it delays the video. The source then sets the audio delay automatically. So it's the same kind of function we use in Surround amplifiers today but it can be set more accurately (easier) and it would also change if the amount of delay varies with different processing. (It still requires that the material is correct and that the broadcaster or user equipment doesn't ruin the syncronisation). /Jan I just want to underscore one comment Jan made about HDMI 1.3 helping with lip-sync: (It still requires that the material is correct and that the broadcaster or user equipment doesn't ruin the syncronisation). Only about half the total lip-sync error comes from the display's video delay and that's all HDMI 1.3 will help correct. In fact that's the same half you can already correct with a non-HDMI av receiver that offers an audio delay. HDMI 1.3 could "potentially" rebroadcast the required delay if the display's internal processing delay changed but that difference is insignifiucant (perhaps 5 or 10 ms for a native versus non-native resolution format conversion) compared to the 50 to 80 ms swings in "variable delay" already present in the signal when it arrives. That variable delay comes from the digital image processing starting with image capture and continuing through editing and post production and broadcasting or DVD encoding. I have watched these swings of 40 to 60 ms in incoming lip-sync error from program to program on the same network and I've seen almost that much variation from one DVD to another. As an example I watched Inside Man with Denzel Washington the other night and it only required 19 ms of delay (with my Felston Dd340) whereas most of the DVD's I watch require 60 to 80 ms on my plasma. That's a 40 to 60 ms difference between DVD's! What's needed is an easily changed delay that doesn't disrupt what you are watching so you can handle this changing lip-sync problem. Then again, what's REALLY needed is a chnage to the broadcast standards that would require a watermark or time stamp by the content producer that true automatic lip-sync correction could use to restore lip-sync no matter what happened to sync between production and viewing but I don't expect to see that in my lifetime. |
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