|
|
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Although it doesn't even mention it in this article, I've read elsewhere
that Freesat receivers will support MPEG-4 H.264 for HDTV, so Freesat should be the first mass-market system on which we'll get proper free-to-air HDTV - hurrah. And the BBC Trust is apparently holding a Public Value Test (and all that kind of crap that they do) to look at whether the BBC should launch a full-time HDTV channel, so presumably they'll say yes, and hopefully ITV, C4 and Five might follow suit - you can but hope. http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat Tara Conlan Friday April 27, 2007 MediaGuardian.co.uk The BBC Trust has given the final thumbs-up to launching Freesat, a free-to-view digital satellite TV service. After a public consultation, the corporation's regulatory body has confirmed a provisional decision it made in February to give the new venture the go-ahead. The BBC Trust received around 700 responses to the Freesat consultation and said today that "an overwhelming majority of respondents, 93%, considered that the BBC should be taking action to improve access to its digital services in the lead-up to digital switchover". Despite the existence of Freeview and BSkyB's own offering of free satellite services to customers who pay an installation free of £150, the BBC Trust found that 62% of people said the current access to BBC digital channels was "unacceptable". In addition, 92% thought the proposals would "benefit consumers" and 90% thought it unlikely that Freesat would dramatically damage the existing ways of receiving digital TV. However, the approval does come with some strings attached. The BBC Trust said Freesat would be required to show that other broadcasters who signed up to distribute TV and radio channels via the new satellite service were not being subsidised by the licence fee. In addition, Freeview should be kept "operationally separate from its involvement with Freesat to minimise any potential effect on competition". Also, the BBC "must retain sufficient control over the decisions taken by the [Freesat] joint venture to ensure that the BBC's public service objectives are not undermined" and ensure "there is always an ability to access Freesat on a subscription-free basis". Freesat is expected to offer up to 300 TV and radio channels - compared with around 75 that are currently available through Freeview. It is due to launch by the time the Borders region switches off its analogue signal in 2008-2009 and will operate on a not-for-profit basis. The trust wants Freesat to be "future-proofed" by ensuring it could offer high-definition TV and personal video recorder compatibility. The BBC said the likely potential cost would be "modest - very substantially below the levels at which we would need to give our authority to BBC management to invest and comparable with what the BBC contributes to the Freeview joint venture and associated technical infrastructure". The trust said it hoped that other public service broadcasters will sign up to Freesat and will share the costs of the new joint venture. However, it admitted that commercial rivals had issues with Freesat. "Of course not all responses were favourable. Virgin Media and BSkyB both questioned the general proposition that it should be the role of a public sector organisation to provide competition in a free market," the trust said. "BSkyB welcomed the new competition and thought increased choice for consumers was positive, but took issue with the fact that, in its view, the trust appeared to accept without reservation that it was appropriate 'for state-owned entities to be used as instruments of industrial or competition policy'. "Virgin Media made a similar point that they have a 'natural bias against public intervention'." However, the trust said it decided to go ahead with Freesat as it would "be of significant public value" for licence fee payers, by addressing "inadequate access to the BBC's digital services in the lead-up to switchover". The trust also pointed out: "BSkyB is under no regulatory obligation to provide subscription-free access and we think it reasonable to conclude that it does so as a commercial choice. "So there is no guarantee that there would remain a subscription-free route to access BBC services in the future. As with any commercial proposition, BSkyB could at any point choose to withdraw or change the terms of this service subject to normal notice provisions." The acting chair of the BBC Trust, Chitra Bharucha, said: "The BBC Trust has decided to approve the proposition that the BBC invests in a joint venture to offer a national satellite based free-to-view digital service. "In reaching this decision we have considered the likely benefits to the licence fee payer, the public value created and the potential market impact." The trust admitted it was "unfortunate" it has taken so long for Freesat to be approved, saying the BBC had originally planned to launch the service before digital switchover begins in the Cumbrian town of Whitehaven this autumn. Freesat was first proposed in 2003 and then outlined formally by the BBC and ITV in September 2005, when it was envisaged it would launch in the first half of 2006. At the moment Freeview, the digital terrestrial service that does not require subscription, reaches only three-quarters of UK homes, though its penetration will increase as digital transmission signals are strengthened in coming years with the region by region switch-off of analogue terrestrial TV. With 7m households, mainly in rural areas, still watching analogue TV just one year before the region-by-region switch-off begins, Freesat is one way of helping to speed up the transition. Meanwhile, the BBC Trust has also decided to conduct a full public value test on a new high definition TV channel. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
DAB is the Betamax of digital radio wrote:
Although it doesn't even mention it in this article, Sorry, it does briefly mention that it will support HDTV. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
DAB is the Betamax of digital radio wrote:
It is due to launch by the time the Borders region switches off its analogue signal in 2008-2009 and will operate on a not-for-profit basis. I think it's a disgrace that they've been allowed to wait until just before digital switchover before they're launching Freesat, because Freesat was first touted about 3 or maybe even 4 years ago, and they've done bugger all, basically for the reason that Greg Dyke admitted to after he'd left the BBC which is that Freeview was launched in order to "flood the UK market with dumb set-top boxes" (I think those were his words) so they didn't have card slots so they wouldn't accept subscription so that the BBC could get another decade's worth of secured funding. And them launching Freesat at the last possible moment before switchover shows that they really want as many people to get Freeview as possible, even though Freeview is heavily bandwidth constrained, so providing HDTV is going to be a squeeze even after analogue TV has been switched off and the Freeview multiplex capacities will increase, whereas providing it on satellite is a piece of **** due to the enormous bandwidth at their disposal - and I read Ashley Highfield, the BBC's Director of Future Media & Technology (officially the most ridiculous departmental name in the history of departmental names) say that it costs £7m to broadcast a TV channel on Freeview and £700,000 on satellite (and £70,000 using Internet multicasting), so basically they could easily launch their TV channels in HD on satellite, but of course Sky is the big enemy, so they want to provide as little incentive as possible for people to get satellite - without making it obvious to everybody that they're trying to avoid satellite, because then they'd come under fire. Typical self-serving BBC... The trust admitted it was "unfortunate" it has taken so long for Freesat to be approved, No **** Sherlock! saying the BBC had originally planned to launch the service before digital switchover begins in the Cumbrian town of Whitehaven this autumn. Freesat was first proposed in 2003 and then outlined formally by the BBC and ITV in September 2005, when it was envisaged it would launch in the first half of 2006. Yeah, and WTF happened to it then?? Freeview sales took off, that's what bloody happened, and screw what the public wants. Basically, if it had been the other way round and launching Freesat would have benefited the BBC and harmed Sky (hypothetically speaking, obviously), if it was proposed in 2003 they'd have got the bugger up and running by 2004. They're a disgrace edited personal opinion about how I think the BBC should be funded, because I don't want to spark off another pro vs anti Licence Fee debate which seem to have a habit of going on for several days. Meanwhile, the BBC Trust has also decided to conduct a full public value test on a new high definition TV channel. And about bloody time for that as well! If it were possible to launch it on Freeview how long do you think it would have taken the BBC to apply to the BBC Trust for permission - about 35 milliseconds, probably..... /rant -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:34:42 GMT, "DAB is the Betamax of digital
radio" [email protected] wrote: Although it doesn't even mention it in this article, I've read elsewhere that Freesat receivers will support MPEG-4 H.264 for HDTV, so Freesat should be the first mass-market system on which we'll get proper free-to-air HDTV - hurrah. And the BBC Trust is apparently holding a Public Value Test (and all that kind of crap that they do) to look at whether the BBC should launch a full-time HDTV channel, so presumably they'll say yes, and hopefully ITV, C4 and Five might follow suit - you can but hope. http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat Snip Shame, by then they'll have nothing on worth showing in HD. Well unless you like on-screen logos, scrolly text, jaunty camera angles and "edgy" production values. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message
... http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat It would have been much better if the digital switchover was to be straight from analogue to digital satellite given the reception problems associated with terrestrial broadcasting. Thus ending terrestrial television broadcasting. Why are they bothering with the vast expense of equipping terrestial transmitters for digital other than as Steve quotes Greg Dyke, to maintain the BBC licence status. BBC channels are already FTA available on satellite, so I'm not quite sure what extra the BBC free sat system is going to provide, and why its taking three years to set up. Clearly I have fallen asleep at the back. Roger R |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Max wrote in :
Shame, by then they'll have nothing on worth showing in HD. Well unless you like on-screen logos, scrolly text, jaunty camera angles and "edgy" production values. But you'll need a High Definition set during the 2012 Olympics so that you can see the exertion on the faces of the winners in stunning detail and still have enough definition in the picture to see the British athletes waaaaaaay back in the distance as well as being able to make out the obscene hand gestures from the home crowd. -- ____________________________ Moley |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Roger R wrote:
"DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat It would have been much better if the digital switchover was to be straight from analogue to digital satellite given the reception problems associated with terrestrial broadcasting. Thus ending terrestrial television broadcasting. Why are they bothering with the vast expense of equipping terrestial transmitters for digital other than as Steve quotes Greg Dyke, to maintain the BBC licence status. I wouldn't go as far as to say that DTT should be abandoned altogether, because virtually everybody has got a TV aerial, so it makes sense to use DTT, and not everybody can put a satellite dish on the outside of their house/flat etc, and others still wouldn't want to. All I'm ****ed off about is that they could have launched it ages ago - MPEG-4 set-top boxes have been available for some time now - if they'd have wanted to, but they chose not to for self-serving reasons. BBC channels are already FTA available on satellite, so I'm not quite sure what extra the BBC free sat system is going to provide, It'll provide a non-Sky EPG, have MPEG-4 support for HDTV, and the BBC will probably advertise it (although because it doesn't help them they no doubt won't advertise it as much as they could or should, especially considering how much advertising they've lavished on Freeview over the years), so they'll generate substantial interest and a market for MPEG-4 set-top boxes that wouldn't have existed without their advertising. It'll be interesting to see whether they launch a package where people pay for the receiver and installation at the same time, or whether there'll be a lot of Rod Hull moments. And it'll be interesting to see how much it'll cost as well. and why its taking three years to set up. I think it's clear that they've stalled it for as long as they could humanly stall it without coming under serious attack, and the feedback to that consultation shows that the vast majority don't think what the BBC has done has been good enough, so they've got away with it by the skin of their teeth by the looks of it. It's just unfortunate that our politicians are technically inept, so even the ones who don't like the BBC have missed out on criticising them about this because they're so bloody technically inept. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... DAB is the Betamax of digital radio wrote: And about bloody time for that as well! If it were possible to launch it on Freeview how long do you think it would have taken the BBC to apply to the BBC Trust for permission - about 35 milliseconds, probably..... Can't you be more precise? Bill |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"if" wrote in message ... "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote: ... You've got a weird moniker there, surely DAB is the VHS of digital radio. The Betamax would be MP3 or Ogg Vorbis, the superior format which lost out. Yes Steve, why don't you change it to 'DAB is the greaseproof paper of sandwich wrappers' or 'DAB is the steam engine of mechanically propelled road vehicles' or DAB is the 78rpm shellac disk of audio recording' or 'DAB is the horrid rubber things they used for contraception before latex was invented in the 1920s that were like wanking into a sock' -- or something snappy like that? Bill |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"if" wrote in message ... "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote: ... You've got a weird moniker there, surely DAB is the VHS of digital radio. The Betamax would be MP3 or Ogg Vorbis, the superior format which lost out. Yes I cringe a bit when I see Steve new sig for that very reason. "Sinclair C-5" or "wax cylinder" would be my suggestions. I have to confess I actually bought a DAB radio yesterday Purely to hear how bad it sounds you understand, I was not disappointed IYKWIM. Plus the processor hash audible during the dead-air bits on Radio 3 comes at no extra charge. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... Roger R wrote: "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat It would have been much better if the digital switchover was to be straight from analogue to digital satellite given the reception problems associated with terrestrial broadcasting. Thus ending terrestrial television broadcasting. Why are they bothering with the vast expense of equipping terrestial transmitters for digital other than as Steve quotes Greg Dyke, to maintain the BBC licence status. I wouldn't go as far as to say that DTT should be abandoned altogether, because virtually everybody has got a TV aerial, so it makes sense to use DTT, and not everybody can put a satellite dish on the outside of their house/flat etc, and others still wouldn't want to. All I'm ****ed off about is that they could have launched it ages ago - MPEG-4 set-top boxes have been available for some time now - if they'd have wanted to, but they chose not to for self-serving reasons. BBC channels are already FTA available on satellite, so I'm not quite sure what extra the BBC free sat system is going to provide, It'll provide a non-Sky EPG, have MPEG-4 support for HDTV, and the BBC will probably advertise it (although because it doesn't help them they no doubt won't advertise it as much as they could or should, especially considering how much advertising they've lavished on Freeview over the years), so they'll generate substantial interest and a market for MPEG-4 set-top boxes that wouldn't have existed without their advertising. It'll be interesting to see whether they launch a package where people pay for the receiver and installation at the same time, or whether there'll be a lot of Rod Hull moments. And it'll be interesting to see how much it'll cost as well. [snip] Installation and box as a single package has been the most satisfactory marketing model for Sky. For many people it is the dish installation that is the worrying unkown part,and they don't want to be vulnerable to a bunch of 'here today gone tomorrow' rip off cowboys. Viewers would have much more confidence if the complete kit were installed by 'BBC Satellite Installation' (some kind of sub contract organisation) for a standard fee as the Sky package. I thought the BBC were planning HD to be a premium service, perhaps they may revive the old B&W or colour licence idea to be SD or HD. Not a good idea IMO. Roger R |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
DABi s the horrid rubber things they used for contraception before latex
was invented in the 1920s that were like wanking into a sock' -- or something snappy like that? Latex grows on trees dosn't it? Don't you know nofink Bill? -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
....snip...
DAB is the 78rpm shellac disk of audio recording'... Interesting that you single out shellac. As a child I was most surprised to discover that my parents owned a 78rpm vinyl record - just the one! Lonnie Donegan if memory serves. Paul DS. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message .. . ...snip... DAB is the 78rpm shellac disk of audio recording'... Interesting that you single out shellac. As a child I was most surprised to discover that my parents owned a 78rpm vinyl record - just the one! Lonnie Donegan if memory serves. Paul DS. It wasn't vinyl Paul -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Roger R wrote:
"DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat BBC channels are already FTA available on satellite, so I'm not quite sure what extra the BBC free sat system is going to provide, and why its taking three years to set up. Clearly I have fallen asleep at the back. Why an alternative to Sky FTA is needed ? Easy: current arrangement requires a box from Sky, with Sky supplied card. Sky can turn it off at any point, or decide to charge for it. (subject to commercial contract notice periods). If you want a PVR, you have to take a rental of Sky+. You can't just go to the local electronics shop and buy a satellite receiver with hard drive which behave the same as an analogue VHS recorder and TV. Many people do not want to buy from Sky or want rental arrangements with Sky, regardless of any caveats. (I have a lot of friends who say that). Why its taking so long ? Dunno, guess too many committees, too many people to consult. - Nigel -- Nigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
if wrote:
"DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote: ... You've got a weird moniker there, surely DAB is the VHS of digital radio. The Betamax would be MP3 or Ogg Vorbis, the superior format which lost out. Not this again! Here's my reasoning: Betamax is the classical example of a technology that lost a format war and became obsolete. On a global scale that's what's happening to DAB - it was originally intended to be the digital replacement for FM, but other standards emerged, countries (apart from the incompetent UK broadcasters) decided they didn't want to use it because the newer systems were far more efficient, cheaper to transmit, allowed far higher audio quality and more stations etc, and refused to use DAB. WorldDAB had to design DAB+ in a hurry, and DAB will now be slowly phased out in the UK, Denmark and Norway. My name has nothing to do with the technical superiority of one standard or another, because the vast, vast majority of people associate Betamax with being the classical example of a technology that lost a format war and became obsolete. to anybody else who wants to question me on this, please don't, thanks, I've been through it enough times already -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Bill Wright wrote:
"if" wrote in message ... "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote: ... You've got a weird moniker there, surely DAB is the VHS of digital radio. The Betamax would be MP3 or Ogg Vorbis, the superior format which lost out. Yes Steve, why don't you change it to 'DAB is the greaseproof paper of sandwich wrappers' or 'DAB is the steam engine of mechanically propelled road vehicles' or DAB is the 78rpm shellac disk of audio recording' or 'DAB is the horrid rubber things they used for contraception before latex was invented in the 1920s that were like wanking into a sock' -- or something snappy like that? I considered: 'DAB is those hairs in the plughole that mount up occasionally and which are so difficult to get out and you've got to dig your nails in to pull the buggers out and when they've mounted up a bit they make the water slow to drain out worse than FM' - my reasoning was that hairs in the plughole have become obsolete hairs, but I decided that it wouldn't fit in the From column in people's newsreaders. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Roger R wrote:
"DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... Roger R wrote: "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat It would have been much better if the digital switchover was to be straight from analogue to digital satellite given the reception problems associated with terrestrial broadcasting. Thus ending terrestrial television broadcasting. Why are they bothering with the vast expense of equipping terrestial transmitters for digital other than as Steve quotes Greg Dyke, to maintain the BBC licence status. I wouldn't go as far as to say that DTT should be abandoned altogether, because virtually everybody has got a TV aerial, so it makes sense to use DTT, and not everybody can put a satellite dish on the outside of their house/flat etc, and others still wouldn't want to. All I'm ****ed off about is that they could have launched it ages ago - MPEG-4 set-top boxes have been available for some time now - if they'd have wanted to, but they chose not to for self-serving reasons. BBC channels are already FTA available on satellite, so I'm not quite sure what extra the BBC free sat system is going to provide, It'll provide a non-Sky EPG, have MPEG-4 support for HDTV, and the BBC will probably advertise it (although because it doesn't help them they no doubt won't advertise it as much as they could or should, especially considering how much advertising they've lavished on Freeview over the years), so they'll generate substantial interest and a market for MPEG-4 set-top boxes that wouldn't have existed without their advertising. It'll be interesting to see whether they launch a package where people pay for the receiver and installation at the same time, or whether there'll be a lot of Rod Hull moments. And it'll be interesting to see how much it'll cost as well. [snip] Installation and box as a single package has been the most satisfactory marketing model for Sky. For many people it is the dish installation that is the worrying unkown part,and they don't want to be vulnerable to a bunch of 'here today gone tomorrow' rip off cowboys. Viewers would have much more confidence if the complete kit were installed by 'BBC Satellite Installation' (some kind of sub contract organisation) for a standard fee as the Sky package. I agree, but I'm not sure the BBC would go in for something like that - we'll see. I thought the BBC were planning HD to be a premium service, perhaps they may revive the old B&W or colour licence idea to be SD or HD. Not a good idea IMO. No, they're not going to charge extra for it, and they've been trying to convince the government and Ofcom to give them more spectrum to transmit HD free-to-air on Freeview, but Ofcom and the government aren't budging, because they say that there'll be sufficient spectrum to broadcast a few HD channels after digital switchover. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Graham wrote:
"if" wrote in message ... "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote: ... You've got a weird moniker there, surely DAB is the VHS of digital radio. The Betamax would be MP3 or Ogg Vorbis, the superior format which lost out. Yes I cringe a bit when I see Steve new sig for that very reason. "Sinclair C-5" or "wax cylinder" would be my suggestions. I think I might revise my name as I so often get questioned about it. The Sinclair C5 and the wax cyliner don't sum up the story of DAB though. If you were to visualise it it would be something like a jet aeroplane on its last legs (something like a comet) being used to launch some new low cost airline and it's all painted nice to give the impression that it's new and the staff wear bright orange clothing and there's a reality TV show made about them, then on the 3rd day after launch a small bird is sucked into the jet on take-off and the plane crashes violently to earth, explodes and there's no survivors. I have to confess I actually bought a DAB radio yesterday Purely to hear how bad it sounds you understand, I was not disappointed IYKWIM. Plus the processor hash audible during the dead-air bits on Radio 3 comes at no extra charge. Have you listened to FM on it yet? Without even knowing what DAB radio you've got, I would predict that the reception quality on FM is attrocious compared to the reception quality on FM on a bog standard £15 analogue radio. I've used loads of different DAB radios, and virtually all of them have absolutely diabolical FM reception quality. I wonder why that is? It can't be due to any vested interests in FM being seen to be bad in comparison to DAB, of course, because UK companies are far too honest to allow something like that to happen. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"Nigel Cliffe" wrote in message ... Roger R wrote: "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat BBC channels are already FTA available on satellite, so I'm not quite sure what extra the BBC free sat system is going to provide, and why its taking three years to set up. Clearly I have fallen asleep at the back. Why an alternative to Sky FTA is needed ? Easy: current arrangement requires a box from Sky, with Sky supplied card. Sky can turn it off at any point, or decide to charge for it. (subject to commercial contract notice periods). If you want a PVR, you have to take a rental of Sky+. You can't just go to the local electronics shop and buy a satellite receiver with hard drive which behave the same as an analogue VHS recorder and TV. Many people do not want to buy from Sky or want rental arrangements with Sky, regardless of any caveats. (I have a lot of friends who say that). You are mistaken about needing a sky box to receive the BBC FTA on satellite. Any satellite receiver, such as the Lidl box at around 40 ukp will do, and give you access to a wide range of other satellites too. You can buy satellite PVR such as the Targa TSR 5200 that will receive all FTA satellite channels. These too come from Lidl at around 200 UKP. A range of DVD HDD recorders is also available. I'm not especially recommending Lidl, but they are offering the kit you say you is not available - and at a reasonable price. The thing that is not available, as Steve has pointed out elsewhere, is an effective EPG comparable to the Sky EPG. I don't want to rent from sky iether, but recognise that for many of my friends who have reception problems the sky complete installation of dish and box provides a reliable alternative that can also get the BBC channels- and known in advance fixed cost - and a relativly modest one at that. 150 pounds all in, so I don't blame them at all for choosing Sky. If only the BBC had been in there with a similar package offer for BBC freesat. Roger R |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... Although it doesn't even mention it in this article, I've read elsewhere that Freesat receivers will support MPEG-4 H.264 for HDTV, so Freesat should be the first mass-market system on which we'll get proper free-to-air HDTV - hurrah. And the BBC Trust is apparently holding a Public Value Test (and all that kind of crap that they do) to look at whether the BBC should launch a full-time HDTV channel, so presumably they'll say yes, and hopefully ITV, C4 and Five might follow suit - you can but hope. http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat And will they be using this "new platform" to prevent that terrible crime detailed in sections 363 to 368 of the Communications Act 2003. After all they say they take such an offence "very seriously". |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Roger R wrote:
"Nigel Cliffe" wrote in message ... Roger R wrote: "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat BBC channels are already FTA available on satellite, so I'm not quite sure what extra the BBC free sat system is going to provide, and why its taking three years to set up. Clearly I have fallen asleep at the back. Why an alternative to Sky FTA is needed ? Easy: current arrangement requires a box from Sky, with Sky supplied card. Sky can turn it off at any point, or decide to charge for it. (subject to commercial contract notice periods). If you want a PVR, you have to take a rental of Sky+. You can't just go to the local electronics shop and buy a satellite receiver with hard drive which behave the same as an analogue VHS recorder and TV. Many people do not want to buy from Sky or want rental arrangements with Sky, regardless of any caveats. (I have a lot of friends who say that). You are mistaken about needing a sky box to receive the BBC FTA on satellite. Any satellite receiver, such as the Lidl box at around 40 ukp will do, and give you access to a wide range of other satellites too. But it won't do some combination of ITV/Ch4/Ch5. So, for most people in the UK, this is an incomplete service. You can buy satellite PVR such as the Targa TSR 5200 that will receive all FTA satellite channels. These too come from Lidl at around 200 UKP. A range of DVD HDD recorders is also available. I'm not especially recommending Lidl, but they are offering the kit you say you is not available - and at a reasonable price. I should have phrased it as "doesn't deliver all the commonly expected channels". The thing that is not available, as Steve has pointed out elsewhere, is an effective EPG comparable to the Sky EPG. So you have to get a box which doesn't do basics for PVR functionality (needs an EPG), or receive all standard UK channels. Or you pay rent to Sky for Sky+. - Nigel -- Nigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Stephen Henson wrote:
They must use giga Watts (anyone have precise figures?) on terrestrial tranmissions. Satellite by comparison uses tiny amounts of power. Most main analogue TV transmitters send 10-15 kW of peak power (during sync bottom) up the feeders. DTT post DSO powers will be about 7 dB down on that, and they will be mean levels, so that's say 4kW up the feeders. If we just concentrate on the two post DSO muxes, and take that 4kW as the average value at a main station, then we have 2x4x50= 400kW. Assume 33% efficiency, then we get 1.2 MW for two muxes on 50 main stations The relays will average 'watts' each for RF output, but I'll assume that's not very efficiently produced. So let's guess at an average value of 50 watts per Tx, at 10% efficiency, that's 500 watts, multiplied by 1100 sites, gives 550kW per mux, so 1.1MW total. Chuck in another 1 MW for good conservative measure, ancillary equipment, distribution equipment etc, and the grand total is 3.3 MW. Compare with 20 million satellite boxes at say 10 watts more than a DTT one, and it's no contest. (I think ?) -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
|
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"Graham" wrote in message ... DABi s the horrid rubber things they used for contraception before latex was invented in the 1920s that were like wanking into a sock' -- or something snappy like that? Latex grows on trees dosn't it? The process for turning it into something useful was 'invented' tim |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
tim..... wrote:
|| "Graham" wrote in message || ... |||| DABi s the horrid rubber things they used for contraception before |||| latex was invented in the 1920s that were like wanking into a |||| sock' -- or something snappy like that? ||| ||| Latex grows on trees dosn't it? || || The process for turning it into something useful was || 'invented' || I've heard they use it in porn films, although I can't think for what reason. || tim |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"Nigel Cliffe" wrote in message ... Roger R wrote: "Nigel Cliffe" wrote in message ... Roger R wrote: "DAB is the Betamax of digital radio" [email protected] wrote in message ... http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcas...067033,00.html BBC Trust approves Freesat BBC channels are already FTA available on satellite, so I'm not quite sure what extra the BBC free sat system is going to provide, and why its taking three years to set up. Clearly I have fallen asleep at the back. Why an alternative to Sky FTA is needed ? Easy: current arrangement requires a box from Sky, with Sky supplied card. Sky can turn it off at any point, or decide to charge for it. (subject to commercial contract notice periods). If you want a PVR, you have to take a rental of Sky+. You can't just go to the local electronics shop and buy a satellite receiver with hard drive which behave the same as an analogue VHS recorder and TV. Many people do not want to buy from Sky or want rental arrangements with Sky, regardless of any caveats. (I have a lot of friends who say that). You are mistaken about needing a sky box to receive the BBC FTA on satellite. Any satellite receiver, such as the Lidl box at around 40 ukp will do, and give you access to a wide range of other satellites too. But it won't do some combination of ITV/Ch4/Ch5. So, for most people in the UK, this is an incomplete service. You can buy satellite PVR such as the Targa TSR 5200 that will receive all FTA satellite channels. These too come from Lidl at around 200 UKP. A range of DVD HDD recorders is also available. I'm not especially recommending Lidl, but they are offering the kit you say you is not available - and at a reasonable price. I should have phrased it as "doesn't deliver all the commonly expected channels". The thing that is not available, as Steve has pointed out elsewhere, is an effective EPG comparable to the Sky EPG. So you have to get a box which doesn't do basics for PVR functionality (needs an EPG), or receive all standard UK channels. Or you pay rent to Sky for Sky+. Ch4 & Ch5 are commercial channels (Ch4 is a special case) and even with the proposed BBC freesat they may choose to remain within the Sky encryption. So it may always be that if you want all of the colours in all of the sizes then you will have to take out a Sky subscription. However, if you are content with the BBC channels then you can receive them now with any satellite reciever that Mr Murdoch cannot turn off or charge for. Mr Murdoch has some sort of restrictive control over the satellite EPG that apparently cannot be terminated and prevents the BBC from setting up a satellite EPG of their own. I don't quite understand why the BBC has to set up its own Freesat service and take three years doing so in order to acheive it's own EPG. Roger R |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"Stephen Henson" wrote in message ... In article , lid says... Compare with 20 million satellite boxes at say 10 watts more than a DTT one, and it's no contest. (I think ?) Is there any reason why a satellite box needs 10W more than a DTT one other than bad design? Presumably he is thinking of the extra power supplied to the LBN, though I don't know if 10 watts is representative. Assuming his figures are correct there are other factors to weigh against the extra power used. There will be considerable saving on buildings, site rental, mast maintenance and staff for all the terrestrial stations and relays against just one satellite ground station. Only a short time ago (2 april 07) Mark posted a link to the BBC Reception Survey in Dorset, and if I read that correctly, many viewers were unable to obtain a satisfactory signal mainly due to topography effects and poor aerial installations. IMO the report made a good case that terrestrial transmissions could never acheive the same universal coverage as satellite broadcasting. And I think the certainty of good reception wherever you are, is of importance to viewers. If these considerations and perhaps others, are weighed against the additional energy requirement, the contest is not quite so one sided. There is the small matter of CO2 or other gasses produced in launching the satellite into orbit and the vast cost of satellites compared to terrestrial transmitters, but I won't mention that. (Apologies for making a case for possibly putting you out of work, Mark) Roger R |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
DAB is the Betamax of digital radio wrote:
Also, the BBC "must retain sufficient control over the decisions taken by the [Freesat] joint venture to ensure that the BBC's public service objectives are not undermined" and ensure "there is always an ability to access Freesat on a subscription-free basis". = lock in the present model of tv license payments by developing technology that deliberatly lacks the ability to control subscriptions on a per unique user basis. Just like they (and why they did) did with freeview. Gaz |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:08:47 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
wrote: ...snip... DAB is the 78rpm shellac disk of audio recording'... Interesting that you single out shellac. As a child I was most surprised to discover that my parents owned a 78rpm vinyl record - just the one! Lonnie Donegan if memory serves. Paul DS. I collect 78's and have quite a few vinyl ones that were produced in the late 50's. Mainly on Pye or Mercury records. Marky P. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:14:17 +0100, "Graham" wrote:
"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message . .. ...snip... DAB is the 78rpm shellac disk of audio recording'... Interesting that you single out shellac. As a child I was most surprised to discover that my parents owned a 78rpm vinyl record - just the one! Lonnie Donegan if memory serves. Paul DS. It wasn't vinyl Paul Some were, in fact vinyl. I have a copy of 'My Old Man's A Dustman' by Lonnie Donegan on 78rpm pressed on vinyl. Very rare 78 from 1960, which was the last year for 78 production in the uk. Carried on in S. Africa up to around 1964 and in India to around '67/'68. These were still shellac though. Marky P. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"Marky P" wrote in message
... On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:08:47 +0100, "Paul D.Smith" wrote: ...snip... DAB is the 78rpm shellac disk of audio recording'... Interesting that you single out shellac. As a child I was most surprised to discover that my parents owned a 78rpm vinyl record - just the one! Lonnie Donegan if memory serves. Paul DS. I collect 78's and have quite a few vinyl ones that were produced in the late 50's. Mainly on Pye or Mercury records. I've got a very fragile shellac-on-aluminium 78 amateur recording of my grandpa doing a segment about railways on Children's Hour, probably some time in the late 40s, speaking in an accent that is completely alien to him: it was at a time when people on the BBC only spoke in artificial RP accents and his warm homely West Riding accent wasn't right. "And so the smoke goes paff paff paff and soon it's going up the chimney like a bellet fram a gan." ;-) There's a hell of a lot of noise and lots of scratches - one evening when I had nothing better to do I worked on the WAV file that I'd grabbed from the record, editing out the worst of the clicks and trying to filter out some of the hiss that sounds as if the record is coated in sandpaper. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Roger R wrote:
Is there any reason why a satellite box needs 10W more than a DTT one other than bad design? Presumably he is thinking of the extra power supplied to the LBN, though I don't know if 10 watts is representative. It was just a ball park guess, but D-Sat boxes do seem to consume more power than modern DTT boxes, the LNB phantom power is certainly a factor, and also (in the case of Sky boxes) the fact that in standby the box is still very busy listening out for software and subscription updates. [snip] (Apologies for making a case for possibly putting you out of work, Mark) Don't worry, it won't. I work in a different part of the broadcast industry :-) -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:43:56 GMT, Moley
wrote: Shame, by then they'll have nothing on worth showing in HD. Well unless you like on-screen logos, scrolly text, jaunty camera angles and "edgy" production values. But you'll need a High Definition set during the 2012 Olympics so that you can see the exertion on the faces of the winners in stunning detail and still have enough definition in the picture to see the British athletes waaaaaaay back in the distance as well as being able to make out the obscene hand gestures from the home crowd. Would the Proms sound any better in High Definition? Rod. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
"Graham" wrote in message ... DABi s the horrid rubber things they used for contraception before latex was invented in the 1920s that were like wanking into a sock' -- or something snappy like that? Latex grows on trees dosn't it? Don't you know nofink Bill? It's one thing plucking the latex fruits off the tree; quite another to turn them in johnies. Bill |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
In article ,
Stephen Henson wrote: They must use giga Watts (anyone have precise figures?) on terrestrial tranmissions. Satellite by comparison uses tiny amounts of power. Satellites tend to use an awful lot of power to get into orbit ;-( -- From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
|
BBC Trust approves Freesat
Roger R wrote:
Mr Murdoch has some sort of restrictive control over the satellite EPG that apparently cannot be terminated and prevents the BBC from setting up a satellite EPG of their own. I don't quite understand why the BBC has to set up its own Freesat service and take three years doing so in order to acheive it's own EPG. The control is 'technical' rather than contractual. The delay in part is due AIUI to the difficulty in having another SI stream co-existing on transponders that also have Sky's proprietary one. Presumably the Beeb have now found a way ? -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
BBC Trust approves Freesat
In article , Roderick Stewart
writes On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:43:56 GMT, Moley wrote: Shame, by then they'll have nothing on worth showing in HD. Well unless you like on-screen logos, scrolly text, jaunty camera angles and "edgy" production values. But you'll need a High Definition set during the 2012 Olympics so that you can see the exertion on the faces of the winners in stunning detail and still have enough definition in the picture to see the British athletes waaaaaaay back in the distance as well as being able to make out the obscene hand gestures from the home crowd. Would the Proms sound any better in High Definition? Rod. And what is there worth seeing this season other than Götterdämmerung ?. Prolly describes digital broadcasting in the UK too well!...... -- Tony Sayer |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:47 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HomeCinemaBanter.com