OK you guys (TOT)
 

I know some of you lot understand about computers, so here's a question. I
want to use my laptop with a proper keyboard, because my arms and my
eyesight aren't the same length any more. I experimented and found that I
could. But to use the arithmetic part in conjunction with ALT for 'special
characters' I have to press 'NUM LOCK'. This is fine; it works; I'm happy.
But what's NUM LOCK? Why do I have to press it for the laptop but not for
the proper computer? And what's SCROLL LOCK? What's PAUSE BREAK? PRT SCR I
understand: it puts the screen into a mysterious place from which I can copy
it. But what's SYS RQ? What's INS?

Bill

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
I know some of you lot understand about computers, so here's a question. I
want to use my laptop with a proper keyboard, because my arms and my
eyesight aren't the same length any more. I experimented and found that I
could. But to use the arithmetic part in conjunction with ALT for 'special
characters' I have to press 'NUM LOCK'. This is fine; it works; I'm happy.
But what's NUM LOCK? Why do I have to press it for the laptop but not for
the proper computer? And what's SCROLL LOCK? What's PAUSE BREAK? PRT SCR I
understand: it puts the screen into a mysterious place from which I can
copy it. But what's SYS RQ? What's INS?

Bill



The keyboard on the original IBM PC was an abortion.

IBM then invented the 'Enhanced Keyboard' which is what is used today with
a couple of extra keys for Windows functions.
The enhanced keyboard with its 12 function keys was very much like the
keyboard used on IBM 3270 terminals (VDUs) which made it easy to use PCs for
mainframe access.

The enhanced keyboard works by emulating the original IBM keyboard.

On a PC Num Lock is normally set on. In the case of my PC setting it on is
an option in the Bios

Sys Rq and Print Screen are IBM 3270 keys. In windows Print Screen can be
used for capturing a copy of the screen image which you can then paste into
an application such as Paint. Alt+PrintScreen which just captures the active
window is more useful.


--
Michael Chare

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
I know some of you lot understand about computers, so here's a question. I
OFF TOPIC RUBBISH REMOVED
Bill

Repeat after me - What is common sense? What is Google? Try asking that
and it will save the senseless off topic posts from your keyboard. This is
a group for Digital TV and continual off topic posts are not very clever.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Clark" wrote in message
...

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
I know some of you lot understand about computers, so here's a
question. I
OFF TOPIC RUBBISH REMOVED
Bill

Repeat after me - What is common sense? What is Google? Try asking
that
and it will save the senseless off topic posts from your keyboard.
This is
a group for Digital TV and continual off topic posts are not very
clever.





Why don't you just go away and play with yourself?

Bill contributes much to this NG and is always willing to help, so the
occasional demonstration of the onset of screaming senility indicated
by way OT questions is widely tolerated. What is more, ask such a
question on a PC NG and you will get well flamed, but there are many
intelligent and equally helpful people on here who will help with good
grace and humour.

Did I get that right Bill?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

OK you guys (TOT)
 

They are all 'legacy' keys from the old days. Apparently they haven't
removed them because it would break backward compatibility (although
personally I wish they would, and sod the backward compatibility).

But what's NUM LOCK? Why do I have to press it for the laptop but not for
the proper computer?

On all keyboards the 'arithmetic' keys are shared - take a look at them and
you will see the extra symbols. On most 'proper' keyboards the extra
symbols just duplicate that block of keys immediately to the left: up, down,
left, right, PgUp, PgDn, etc. Therefore the computer starts up with NUM
LOCK set because you normally want the arithmetic keys to generate numbers.

Laptops are (or may be) different, and may not have that intermediate block
of keys I mentioned, so you would then use the arithmetic keys for the
functions such as up, down, PgUp, etc. In this case the computer helpfully
starts with NUM LOCK unset.

And what's SCROLL LOCK? What's PAUSE BREAK?

Obsolete. They were used in the days of dumb, character-based computer
terminals. I don't know of any software that makes use of them.

PRT SCR I understand: it puts the screen into a mysterious place from
which I can copy it.

In the old days it literally sent the screen contents (we're still talking
about character-based terminals, here) to the printer. Now it copies the
screen contents as a graphic to the clipboard, which you can then paste
elsewhere. They call this a 'screenshot'.

Here's a slightly useful trick: ALT + PRT SCR copies just the active window
to the clipboard. (PRT SCR on its own copies the whole screen)

But what's SYS RQ?

Obsolete. Not used for anything.

What's INS?

This toggles insert/overwrite mode in most word processors. In insert mode,
text you type 'pushes' any text in front if it along. This is the most
common mode. In overwrite mode, text you type overwrites the existing text.
Completely useless - I don't know of anyone who uses it. Normally, if you
don't want some text, you select it and delete it, and *then* start typing.

Thack

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Who set you up as policeman of this group, then?

Go away, you tedious little person.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

....snip...

And what's SCROLL LOCK? What's PAUSE BREAK?


Scroll Lock can be used to stop pages full of text whizzing by for those of
us who still use text mode (Don't ask Bill - you never will ;-) ).
Pause/Break is also useful for those of us who actually write software
because they allow a program to be "broken" into - so when you get that
"that's not what I wanted, please stop!" feeling, Break is the key for you
(actually Ctrl-Break - don't go there).

BTW, some laptops only have a single keyboard/mouse socket. You can get a
Y-cable from places like PCWorld (or much cheaper off eBay) and plug both a
mouse and keyboard in if you wish. Alternatively, use a USB mouse and
keyboard if your notebook as USB ports. FWIW, I find that the optical mice
(the ones with a red LED instead of a ball) are far superior but you want to
use them on a plain surface; patterns confuse them. It's also probably the
only time I'd say "buy Microsoft" as their mice, even their cheap ones, are
IMHO the best around.

Paul DS.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:45:08 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

But what's NUM LOCK? Why do I have to press it for the laptop but not for
the proper computer? And what's SCROLL LOCK? What's PAUSE BREAK? PRT SCR I
understand: it puts the screen into a mysterious place from which I can copy
it. But what's SYS RQ? What's INS?

NUM LOCK = "Number Lock", i.e. it locks the keypad into a mode where
it types numbers instead of moving the cursors. It's a bit like Shift
Lock on a mechanical typewriter, which would literally shift the
roller up to receive capital letters, but lock it in position so you
wouldn't have to keep your finger on the shift key to type a whole lot
of capitals. You can configure which mode Num Lock goes to on boot up.

INS = "Insert". You'll probably never know what this does until you
hit it by accident while typing a document, and then try to correct
something in the middle of a line. Try it. It toggles between "insert"
and "overtype" modes, but for no clear reason "insert" appears to be
the default one, so the traditional labelling isn't very helpful.

PrtScr = "Print Screen". In DOS, that's exactly what it would do, but
I don't think it does anything in Windows.
Pause/Break would do exactly that while listing or printing something
in DOS, and I think BASIC.
SysRq = "System Request". Probably something in DOS again, or Linux,
or perhaps Martian, but don't worry about it.

SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does, or
ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an ornament.

Rod.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Bill Wright" wrote

But what's SYS RQ?

I could tell you that, but then I'd have to kill you. So suffice it to say

FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN DON'T *EVER* PRESS SYS RQ *EVER* ... OK?


hth

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Clark wrote:
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
I know some of you lot understand about computers, so here's a
question. I OFF TOPIC RUBBISH REMOVED Bill

Repeat after me - What is common sense? What is Google? Try asking
that and it will save the senseless off topic posts from your
keyboard. This is a group for Digital TV and continual off topic
posts are not very clever.

It would seem you need to take your own advice regarding common sense. When
have you contributed anything to this NG? Bill has helped countless people
on here with his professional expertise on TV matters so why shouldn't he
ask questions about other topics which he always clearly marks as such? If
you don't like those questions then don't read them.

Peter Crosland

OK you guys (TOT)
 

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:03:07 +0100, "Clark" wrote:

,snip.
This is
a group for Digital TV and continual off topic posts are not very clever.

Personally I like this forum because it has a wide range of
contributors with knowledge of many topics that probably don't fit
well elsewhere. Bill, and other, always clearly mark any non
digital-tv topics (TOT) so you always have a choice as to whether or
not to read them. I have actually learned quite a lot from TOT
topics. There is also quite a lot of humour which is often missing
elsewhere. Keep the TOT postings coming as far as I am concerned.
This forum would be a less inmteresting place without them.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Roderick Stewart wrote on 24/04/2007 08:37:21:

SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does, or
ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an ornament.

Rod.

I love using Scroll Lock in spread sheets
Turps

OK you guys (TOT)
 

On Apr 24, 1:59 am, "Michael Chare"

The keyboard on the original IBM PC was an abortion.

Who was the bloke from IBM who said once; "I may well have invented
Ctl-Alt-Del, but it was Microsoft that made it really popular"

OK you guys (TOT)
 

In message , Gripper
writes

"Bill Wright" wrote

But what's SYS RQ?

I could tell you that, but then I'd have to kill you. So suffice it to say

FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN DON'T *EVER* PRESS SYS RQ *EVER* ... OK?


hth



You've got me really worried now. My SysRq is on the same key as Prnt
Scrn. Prnt Scrn is written at the top of the key, then there is a
dividing line, and SysRq is written below it. As I often use Prnt Scrn,
for years I have simply been whacking the key in the usual way. What
have I done? Will there be any long-term repercussions? Am I in for 7
years of bad luck? Is there anything I can do to rectify the situation?
Ian.
--

OK you guys (TOT)
 

In article , Clark
writes

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
I know some of you lot understand about computers, so here's a question. I
OFF TOPIC RUBBISH REMOVED
Bill

Repeat after me - What is common sense? What is Google? Try asking that
and it will save the senseless off topic posts from your keyboard. This is
a group for Digital TV and continual off topic posts are not very clever.




Arseholes!..

There .. you've made me swear now!...
--
Tony Sayer

OK you guys (TOT)
 

What have I done? Will there be any long-term repercussions? Am I in for 7
years of bad luck? Is there anything I can do to rectify the situation?

Frankly, mate, it ain't looking good. It's time to put your affairs in
order, and I wouldn't start a thick book if I were you.

Anon

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Clark wrote:
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
I know some of you lot understand about computers, so here's a
question. I OFF TOPIC RUBBISH REMOVED Bill

Repeat after me - What is common sense? What is Google? Try asking
that and it will save the senseless off topic posts from your
keyboard. This is a group for Digital TV and continual off topic
posts are not very clever.

**** off you moaning *******!

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Steve Thackery" wrote in message

They are all 'legacy' keys from the old days. Apparently they haven't
removed them because it would break backward compatibility (although
personally I wish they would, and sod the backward compatibility).

PRT SCR I understand: it puts the screen into a mysterious place from
which I can copy it.

In the old days it literally sent the screen contents (we're still
talking about character-based terminals, here) to the printer. Now
it copies the screen contents as a graphic to the clipboard, which
you can then paste elsewhere. They call this a 'screenshot'.

Here's a slightly useful trick: ALT + PRT SCR copies just the active
window to the clipboard. (PRT SCR on its own copies the whole screen)

I've never tried it, but it would be really useful if 'Print Screen' copied
the BIOS setup screen to the printer. Obviously this would only work with a
bog standard parallel printer with its own default font that prints ASCII
characters sent to it. Save jotting down all the settings when you're about
to change the CMOS battery.

I've got a parallel printer in the cupboard, but I've never tried using it
in this way.

--
Max Demian

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"harrogate3" wrote in message
...
Why don't you just go away and play with yourself?

Bill contributes much to this NG and is always willing to help, so the
occasional demonstration of the onset of screaming senility indicated
by way OT questions is widely tolerated. What is more, ask such a
question on a PC NG and you will get well flamed, but there are many
intelligent and equally helpful people on here who will help with good
grace and humour.

Did I get that right Bill?

Yes Woody, thank you very much. You have got it exactly right. I'd rather
ask friends than strangers. I know it's off topic, but I also know that
there are people on here who will answer my idiot computer questions in a
way that I can understand. I don't think that an occasional off-topic
request for info is such a crime under those circumstances.

And as you say, it's actually due largely to the onset of screaming
senility, which I can't help. In fact grumbling at me about it is a form of
discriminating against the disabled, so that young man should be deeply
ashamed of himself. Oh, excuse me, must go and change my incontinence pants
right away.

Bill

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Steve Thackery" wrote in message
...
What's INS?

This toggles insert/overwrite mode in most word processors. In insert
mode, text you type 'pushes' any text in front if it along. This is the
most common mode. In overwrite mode, text you type overwrites the
existing text. Completely useless - I don't know of anyone who uses it.
Normally, if you don't want some text, you select it and delete it, and
*then* start typing.

Thanks for all that Steve. The bit above is especially interesting. I
suppose it's like OVR in Word, which mysteriously turns itself on from time
to time in my experience. I have a problem with Outlook Express in that
sometimes it does this overwriting trick spontaneously. Sometimes it will
stop if I press Insert but sometimes it just won't, so I have to copy my
work, close the program, open it again, and paste.

Bill

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
. ..
BTW, some laptops only have a single keyboard/mouse socket. You can get a
Y-cable from places like PCWorld (or much cheaper off eBay) and plug both
a mouse and keyboard in if you wish. Alternatively, use a USB mouse and
keyboard if your notebook as USB ports.

You'll laugh, but until last week I used a USB mouse via an adaptor to fit
the round hole on the side. It kep getting knocked so I bravely pushed the
mouse plug into the USB hole on the back. So that freed up the round hole
for the keyboard, which worked. Yay I'm an IT expert!

FWIW, I find that the optical mice
(the ones with a red LED instead of a ball) are far superior but you want
to use them on a plain surface; patterns confuse them. It's also probably
the only time I'd say "buy Microsoft" as their mice, even their cheap
ones, are IMHO the best around.

Yes I'd agree. Although we have two Logitech cordless that seem to be fine.

Bill

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Bill Wright" wrote:

I suppose it's like OVR in Word, which mysteriously turns itself on from
time to time in my experience.

Bill, maybe you've got the same problem as me. That 'Insert' key is
perilously close to the 'Backspace' key (the most commonly used key by far
if you type and ineptly as I do). I bet you're hitting it sometimes without
knowing it.

I have a problem with Outlook Express in that sometimes it does this
overwriting trick spontaneously. Sometimes it will stop if I press Insert
but sometimes it just won't, so I have to copy my work, close the program,
open it again, and paste.

I wonder if, again, it's due to accidental presses of the Insert key.
However, I can't explain why it won't go back to how it should be. We need
an IT expert, I think.

Steve

OK you guys (TOT)
 

The message
from "Steve Thackery" contains these words:

They are all 'legacy' keys from the old days. Apparently they haven't
removed them because it would break backward compatibility (although
personally I wish they would, and sod the backward compatibility).

But what's NUM LOCK? Why do I have to press it for the laptop but not for
the proper computer?

On all keyboards the 'arithmetic' keys are shared - take a look at them and
you will see the extra symbols. On most 'proper' keyboards the extra
symbols just duplicate that block of keys immediately to the left: up,
down,
left, right, PgUp, PgDn, etc. Therefore the computer starts up with NUM
LOCK set because you normally want the arithmetic keys to generate numbers.

The enhanced AT keyboard was endowed with an additional block of keys,
known as the number pad. For compatabilty, the origional combined number
pad/cursor control block was retained purely for cursor control
functions and the layout optimised to this function.

The numeric pad could be toggled between cursor control function and
number pad function (the layout of the cursor control keys matched the
original one on the AT keyboard). With number lock off, you had a
duplicated set of cursor control keys (but with slightly altered
layout), with numlock on you then had a dedicated number pad _without_
the cursor control key duplication.

All PCs can be programmed to start with the numberlock in the on or off
state. The OS could then either retain this state (eg win95 to winME),
or (in the case of win2k and XP, for example), turn it off at the login
page and set it back to whatever state it was in at the time of the last
logout of the user account then being logged back into.

Laptops are (or may be) different, and may not have that intermediate block
of keys I mentioned, so you would then use the arithmetic keys for the
functions such as up, down, PgUp, etc. In this case the computer helpfully
starts with NUM LOCK unset.

Laptop keyboards, due to space constraints, don't have the luxury of a
number pad group. As with the mains powered PC, they can be programmed
to start with the numberlock preset to on or off. The usual setting is
numberlock off on account of the absence of a dedicated cursor control
group on the laptop's built in keyboard (although there's no reason why
a user shouldn't keep a standard Enhanced AT keyboard permanently
plugged in and program the laptop to start with the numberlock on.)

And what's SCROLL LOCK? What's PAUSE BREAK?

Obsolete. They were used in the days of dumb, character-based computer
terminals. I don't know of any software that makes use of them.

Software can and. occasionally, does use such 'obsolete' keys. Any key
scan code can be used in whatever way the software author wishes. One
example of usage of the 'obsolete' Pause/Break key is in pausing the
POST info screen during boot up.

Most properly written BIOSes will honour this keyboard input, allowing
you the time required to analyse the otherwise fleeting glimpse of
system information or permit you to open the CDrom drawer and insert a
bootable CD on those occasions when you don't want to boot from the hard
disk (provided the boot device order has been appropriately set in the
cmos configuration).

PRT SCR I understand: it puts the screen into a mysterious place from
which I can copy it.

In the old days it literally sent the screen contents (we're still talking
about character-based terminals, here) to the printer. Now it copies the
screen contents as a graphic to the clipboard, which you can then paste
elsewhere. They call this a 'screenshot'.

Here's a slightly useful trick: ALT + PRT SCR copies just the active window
to the clipboard. (PRT SCR on its own copies the whole screen)

But what's SYS RQ?

Obsolete. Not used for anything.

A dangerous phrase to use in relation to keyboards. ALL key presses
will generate key scan codes on a 'live' IBM AT (enhanced or not)
keyboard. It's the software (whether that is the 'firmware' of the
motherboard BIOS [1], the OS software or application software) which
interprets the response.

I've recently seen a reference to its use in Linux as a signal to the
OS to force a save of all open files (including log files) in the event
of a kernel panic or lockup (system crash). In the latter case, this (or
any other) function is not guaranteed.

What's INS?

This toggles insert/overwrite mode in most word processors. In insert
mode,
text you type 'pushes' any text in front if it along. This is the most
common mode. In overwrite mode, text you type overwrites the existing
text.
Completely useless - I don't know of anyone who uses it. Normally, if you
don't want some text, you select it and delete it, and *then* start typing.

[1] 'firmware' so called on account it was origionally stored in a rom,
effectively making it a program 'set in stone' (in this case, the
'stone' being silicon in nature).

Origionally, for the PC at any rate, Erasable Programable Read Only
Memory (EPROM) was used. Unless you were prepared to remove the EPROM
chip to erase it in an Ultraviolet Light EPROM erasor and then plug it
into an EPROM programmer for reprogramming, the software stored in the
chip _was_ effectively set in stone.

Later PCs (around the time of the introduction of the Pentium) used
EEPROM or Flash (programable) RAM which could be electrically erased and
reprogrammed in situ using a special bios flash program provided by the
MoBo manufacturer with a suitable updated bios image file.

This change allowed 'in the field' bios updates over the lifetime of
the PC motherboard. Unfortunately, this feature could be exploited by
such viruses as the CIH/Chernoble virus to name the most famous example.
Unless the eeprom could be unplugged from the MoBo (they're nearly
always soldered in, these days), the result was a dead system with the
only economic repair option being the fitting of a new MoBo.

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:37:21 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:


SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does, or
ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an ornament.


It used to do something but it was too long ago now for me to
remember. Didn't MS Flight Sim use them?

Whilst we are on the topic what are the symbols on the one key for?
ie: ¬ ` ¦


--
AnthonyL

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"AnthonyL" wrote in message

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:37:21 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:


SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does,
or ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an
ornament.


It used to do something but it was too long ago now for me to
remember. Didn't MS Flight Sim use them?

Whilst we are on the topic what are the symbols on the one key for?
ie: ¬ ` ¦

Don't you mean next to the one key?

Well they display the characters indicated. ` unmodified, ¬ shifted and ¦
with Alt Gr. (Ah! there's another rarely used key!)

--
Max Demian

OK you guys (TOT)
 

On Apr 24, 12:01 pm, "Steve Thackery" wrote:

I wonder if, again, it's due to accidental presses of the Insert key.
However, I can't explain why it won't go back to how it should be. We need
an IT expert, I think.

I used to have a laptop, where the delete key was next to the power
button. After a couple of disasters, I set 'autosave' in Excel and
Word to 1 minute !

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Max Demian" wrote in message

"AnthonyL" wrote in message

It used to do something but it was too long ago now for me to
remember. Didn't MS Flight Sim use them?

Whilst we are on the topic what are the symbols on the one key for?
ie: ¬ ` ¦

Don't you mean next to the one key?

Well they display the characters indicated. ` unmodified, ¬ shifted
and ¦ with Alt Gr. (Ah! there's another rarely used key!)

Oh, you mean what are the *characters* for. Well ` is the ASCII backquote,
used to start a quotation (except that it doesn't match the forward quote '
in most character sets). Used for command substitution in Unix. ¬ is a
logical NOT, indicating negation (not 7-bit ASCII), and the ¦ broken bar
character is used for, um, pipe operations in Unix (and DOS, more or less).
I *think* it's a 7-bit character, unless that's |

No wonder they're all squadged into the top left corner of the keyboard.

--
Max Demian

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Max Demian wrote:
"AnthonyL" wrote in message

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:37:21 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:


SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does,
or ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an
ornament.


It used to do something but it was too long ago now for me to
remember. Didn't MS Flight Sim use them?

Whilst we are on the topic what are the symbols on the one key for?
ie: ¬ ` ¦

Don't you mean next to the one key?

Well they display the characters indicated. ` unmodified, ¬ shifted
and ¦ with Alt Gr. (Ah! there's another rarely used key!)

I once told my sister that was the 'any key', she believed me. ;-)

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Owain wrote:

That's what digital cameras are for.

....and for getting a shot of the 'Specials' board in the pub, when no one else
can be arsed to get up and go and read it for themselves.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Adrian A wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
"AnthonyL" wrote in message

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:37:21 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:


SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does,
or ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an
ornament.


It used to do something but it was too long ago now for me to
remember. Didn't MS Flight Sim use them?

Whilst we are on the topic what are the symbols on the one key for?
ie: ¬ ` ¦

Don't you mean next to the one key?

Well they display the characters indicated. ` unmodified, ¬ shifted
and ¦ with Alt Gr. (Ah! there's another rarely used key!)

I once told my sister that was the 'any key', she believed me. ;-)

ROTFL! I must remember that for future use.


Peter Crosland

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Paul D.Smith wrote:

Scroll Lock can be used to stop pages full of text whizzing by for those of
us who still use text mode (Don't ask Bill - you never will ;-) ).

There is a Windows use in things like Excel as well. With scroll lock on
the cursor keys will scroll the whole sheet about rather than move the
highlighted cell like normal.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:

Might as well mop up a few I have not seen mentioned so far ;-)

characters' I have to press 'NUM LOCK'. This is fine; it works; I'm happy.
But what's NUM LOCK? Why do I have to press it for the laptop but not for
the proper computer?

NUM LOCK on a laptop superimposes a numeric keypad over the top of some
of the alphabetic keys - hence it is off by default, but sometimes worth
turning on for rapid numeric entry. On a full size keyboard it switches
between numeric keys and cursor control functions of the dedicated
numeric pad. This is not much use on a modern AT style keyboard that has
dedicated cursor keys in addition to the embedded ones on the keypad,
but was vital on the original PC and PC XT style keyboard where the
keypad cursor keys were the only ones you got.

And what's SCROLL LOCK? What's PAUSE BREAK? PRT SCR I

I covered on use of scroll lock in another post. It is also used with
some automatic keyboard/video switches to select which machine to view.
Pause will stop a text mode screen scrolling (open a command prompt or
MS DOS Prompt (depending on your windows flavour) and hit ALT RETURN.
This will place it in full screen text mode. Then do something that
scolls lots (like "DIR /S") and you can test pause. You can interrupt a
long listing with CTRL+C or CTRL BREAK (i.e. same key)

understand: it puts the screen into a mysterious place from which I can copy
it. But what's SYS RQ? What's INS?

Sysrequest - was used on original PCs that had basic in ROM, little used
now.

INS in addition to toggling overwrite mode in some applications (and if
you grew up with commodore 8 bit machines that will be the "normal" way
to edit!), it can also be used as a "paste" key when used with shift.
DEL (i.e. directly below it) will act as a cut key when used with shift.
Hence they are actually quite well placed for rapid cut 'n' paste
operations (where a "copy" being simulated by holding SHIFT and then
hitting DEL & INS in sequence - a style of work that will feel natural
to VMS users!)


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Mark Carver" wrote in message

Owain wrote:

That's what digital cameras are for.

...and for getting a shot of the 'Specials' board in the pub, when no
one else can be arsed to get up and go and read it for themselves.

But then you need to carry your photo printer in your handbag - unless you
expect people to squint at the tiny screen.

--
Max Demian

OK you guys (TOT)
 

All true, but I was trying to keep it simple by making statements that are
true in all but exceptional cases.

As you say, every key on the keyboard COULD be used, but the ones we talked
about rarely are nowadays.

Steve

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Steve Thackery" wrote in message
...
"Bill Wright" wrote:

I suppose it's like OVR in Word, which mysteriously turns itself on from
time to time in my experience.

Bill, maybe you've got the same problem as me. That 'Insert' key is
perilously close to the 'Backspace' key (the most commonly used key by far
if you type and ineptly as I do). I bet you're hitting it sometimes
without knowing it.

I have a problem with Outlook Express in that sometimes it does this
overwriting trick spontaneously. Sometimes it will stop if I press Insert
but sometimes it just won't, so I have to copy my work, close the
program, open it again, and paste.

I wonder if, again, it's due to accidental presses of the Insert key.
However, I can't explain why it won't go back to how it should be. We
need an IT expert, I think.

Common sense tells me that it's accidental key presses, but if so I'm really
surprised. However, I'm often certain about things that turn out to be wrong
these days, so . . .

Bill

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
Owain wrote:

That's what digital cameras are for.

...and for getting a shot of the 'Specials' board in the pub, when no one
else can be arsed to get up and go and read it for themselves.

and for getting a close up of the aeroplane that loops the loop over my
house. He's for it now!

Bill

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Adrian A" wrote in message
...
Max Demian wrote:

Don't you mean next to the one key?

Well they display the characters indicated. ` unmodified, ¬ shifted
and ¦ with Alt Gr. (Ah! there's another rarely used key!)

I once told my sister that was the 'any key', she believed me. ;-)


There's an Allt Street in Rawmarsh (or Parkgate).

Bill

OK you guys (TOT)
 

"Adrian A" wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
"AnthonyL" wrote in message

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:37:21 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:


SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does,
or ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an
ornament.


It used to do something but it was too long ago now for me to
remember. Didn't MS Flight Sim use them?

Whilst we are on the topic what are the symbols on the one key for?
ie: ¬ ` ¦

Don't you mean next to the one key?

Well they display the characters indicated. ` unmodified, ¬ shifted
and ¦ with Alt Gr. (Ah! there's another rarely used key!)

I once told my sister that was the 'any key', she believed me. ;-)

There was a similar key on MSX home computers... I think it was
used for accents in languages that use them... so pressing it then
pressing a suitable letter would enter that letter accented
(depending on shift/alt when you pressed the key). AFAIR, it
was called the 'dead key'.

I've often wondered.... when microsoft decided that all keyboards
should have the extra 3 windows keys, (and has anyone ever
used the windows context menu key on the right?) why
didn't they re-label several of the barely used keys on the
keyboard as cut, copy, and paste? Even just the F1-F12 keys
could have been labelled with their 'normal' windows functions?

Suppose I could get a pen out and write on the X,C, and V keys...

And there really *should* be an 'Any' key.

dom.

p.s. bill's OT posts are the ones I look forward to most.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 20:11:14 +0100, Dominic
mused:

"Adrian A" wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
"AnthonyL" wrote in message

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:37:21 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:


SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does,
or ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an
ornament.

It turns a light on and off.

(and has anyone ever
used the windows context menu key on the right?)

I use it loads, I tend to do most stuff on the laptop with keyboard
shortcuts rather than dragging the pointer round with the annoying
non-mouse controller.

Suppose I could get a pen out and write on the X,C, and V keys...

I tried that for Winamp keyboard shortcuts, lasted not very long at
all.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

OK you guys (TOT)
 

Lurch wrote:

SCROLL LOCK. The mystery key. *Nobody* knows what Scroll Lock does,
or ever did, if anything. Best regard the scroll lock key as an
ornament.

It turns a light on and off.

extreme_pedant_mode

On PC and PC XT keyboards you would be correct - the light status was
maintaind by the keyboard controller (hence how it could get out of sync
with what state the PC thought it was in). However on everything since
AT class machines the light status is maintained by the BIOS based on
key down and key up events.

/extreme_pedant_mode

;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/