The end of set top boxes?
 

The demise of USDTV got me thinking. With all newly TV's including
ATSC tuners, do we really "need" set top boxes anymore?

Neither my wife nor I had cable until we moved to the "hinterlands"
and experienced the limits of rabbit ears. Digital cable was brand
new and we jumped on it. 500 channels and all. But also a real step
back. Recording a show on the higher channels was really a pain
unless you only wanted to record that channel. IR blasters came
along but they really weren't the answer. And every TV needing a box
just to watch TV. Pretty soon it was VCR, DVD, STB, a whole tangled
mess of wires to connect it all, four remotes plus one more to (never
quite) control them all.

Well, now that we have TV's and recorders that can natively receive
ATSC, why can't we just have one box where the coax enters the house?
The box could possibly even be mounted outside the home. It would
spit out all the subscribed channels as ATSC signals. Then the TV or
recorder could be controlled by its regular remote.

Remember the old days when the VCR remote controlled the TV and that
was all you needed? Imagine, only needing a TV to watch cable or dish
TV in the 21st century.

Sure beats a cable card, no?

The end of set top boxes?
 

In article . com "mogator88" writes:
The demise of USDTV got me thinking. With all newly TV's including
ATSC tuners, do we really "need" set top boxes anymore?

Neither my wife nor I had cable until we moved to the "hinterlands"
and experienced the limits of rabbit ears. Digital cable was brand
new and we jumped on it. 500 channels and all. But also a real step
back. Recording a show on the higher channels was really a pain
unless you only wanted to record that channel. IR blasters came
along but they really weren't the answer. And every TV needing a box
just to watch TV. Pretty soon it was VCR, DVD, STB, a whole tangled
mess of wires to connect it all, four remotes plus one more to (never
quite) control them all.


So, dumping the rabbit ears, putting up a real antenna, and getting
things in ATSC just works.


Well, now that we have TV's and recorders that can natively receive
ATSC, why can't we just have one box where the coax enters the house?
The box could possibly even be mounted outside the home. It would
spit out all the subscribed channels as ATSC signals. Then the TV or
recorder could be controlled by its regular remote.


So, this box would need 500 ATSC modulators built in to it? How much
would that cost?


Remember the old days when the VCR remote controlled the TV and that
was all you needed? Imagine, only needing a TV to watch cable or dish
TV in the 21st century.


Let's see, Dishnetwork tops out a bit above 250 channels, so you would
need 250 ATSC modulators there, along with tuners for receiving all of
their channels at once. Sounds *way expensive*.


Alan

The end of set top boxes?
 

On Mar 18, 2:04 am, (Alan) wrote:
In article . com "mogator88" writes:

The demise of USDTV got me thinking. With all newly TV's including
ATSC tuners, do we really "need" set top boxes anymore?

Neither my wife nor I had cable until we moved to the "hinterlands"
and experienced the limits of rabbit ears. Digital cable was brand
new and we jumped on it. 500 channels and all. But also a real step
back. Recording a show on the higher channels was really a pain
unless you only wanted to record that channel. IR blasters came
along but they really weren't the answer. And every TV needing a box
just to watch TV. Pretty soon it was VCR, DVD, STB, a whole tangled
mess of wires to connect it all, four remotes plus one more to (never
quite) control them all.

So, dumping the rabbit ears, putting up a real antenna, and getting
things in ATSC just works.

Uhhh, yeah. Actually a real roof antenna is not enough to get all the
NTSC channels. But ATSC works fine.

Well, now that we have TV's and recorders that can natively receive
ATSC, why can't we just have one box where the coax enters the house?
The box could possibly even be mounted outside the home. It would
spit out all the subscribed channels as ATSC signals. Then the TV or
recorder could be controlled by its regular remote.

So, this box would need 500 ATSC modulators built in to it? How much
would that cost?

Cost to whom? To build or to rent to the customer? The pricing
would probably be similar to other STB's.

Remember the old days when the VCR remote controlled the TV and that
was all you needed? Imagine, only needing a TV to watch cable or dish
TV in the 21st century.

Let's see, Dishnetwork tops out a bit above 250 channels, so you would
need 250 ATSC modulators there, along with tuners for receiving all of
their channels at once. Sounds *way expensive*.

Alan

Maybe 250 modulators in the box. Perhaps since this is low power
transmission, only driving the coax in your home, this could all be
chip based and very small. And since its ATSC, the tuner in any newly
made tv would receive it with no modification.

The end of set top boxes?
 

mogator88 wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:04 am, (Alan) wrote:
In article . com "mogator88" writes:

The demise of USDTV got me thinking. With all newly TV's including
ATSC tuners, do we really "need" set top boxes anymore?
Neither my wife nor I had cable until we moved to the "hinterlands"
and experienced the limits of rabbit ears. Digital cable was brand
new and we jumped on it. 500 channels and all. But also a real step
back. Recording a show on the higher channels was really a pain
unless you only wanted to record that channel. IR blasters came
along but they really weren't the answer. And every TV needing a box
just to watch TV. Pretty soon it was VCR, DVD, STB, a whole tangled
mess of wires to connect it all, four remotes plus one more to (never
quite) control them all.
So, dumping the rabbit ears, putting up a real antenna, and getting
things in ATSC just works.

Uhhh, yeah. Actually a real roof antenna is not enough to get all the
NTSC channels. But ATSC works fine.

Well, now that we have TV's and recorders that can natively receive
ATSC, why can't we just have one box where the coax enters the house?
The box could possibly even be mounted outside the home. It would
spit out all the subscribed channels as ATSC signals. Then the TV or
recorder could be controlled by its regular remote.
So, this box would need 500 ATSC modulators built in to it? How much
would that cost?

Cost to whom? To build or to rent to the customer? The pricing
would probably be similar to other STB's.

Remember the old days when the VCR remote controlled the TV and that
was all you needed? Imagine, only needing a TV to watch cable or dish
TV in the 21st century.
Let's see, Dishnetwork tops out a bit above 250 channels, so you would
need 250 ATSC modulators there, along with tuners for receiving all of
their channels at once. Sounds *way expensive*.

Alan

Maybe 250 modulators in the box. Perhaps since this is low power
transmission, only driving the coax in your home, this could all be
chip based and very small. And since its ATSC, the tuner in any newly
made tv would receive it with no modification.

Apparently you have absolutely NO concept of how much data such a device
would have to process. It is precisely because such a device has to
handle a LOT of data in real time that the cable company only has such
capability in a VERY limited number of local distribution facilities and
depends on STBs and Cable Cards in customers homes to control access to
all but basic services. Each of the STBs and Cable Cards only have to
process ONE video stream at a time, still significant but MUCH more
practical.

Again, the problem isn't signal strength, it's shear billions and
billions of megabits per second digital data processing power. All that
computing power is neither cheap or compact, and not likely to be any
time soon. Monthly rental fees can only be so small a fraction of the
rental equipment's wholesale cost to meet stockholder expectation of
return on investment, which is the motivation that drives the very
existence of the cable company.

The end of set top boxes?
 

"mogator88" wrote in message
ups.com...
The demise of USDTV got me thinking. With all newly TV's including
ATSC tuners, do we really "need" set top boxes anymore?

Neither my wife nor I had cable until we moved to the "hinterlands"
and experienced the limits of rabbit ears. Digital cable was brand
new and we jumped on it. 500 channels and all. But also a real step
back. Recording a show on the higher channels was really a pain
unless you only wanted to record that channel. IR blasters came
along but they really weren't the answer. And every TV needing a box
just to watch TV. Pretty soon it was VCR, DVD, STB, a whole tangled
mess of wires to connect it all, four remotes plus one more to (never
quite) control them all.

Well, now that we have TV's and recorders that can natively receive
ATSC, why can't we just have one box where the coax enters the house?
The box could possibly even be mounted outside the home. It would
spit out all the subscribed channels as ATSC signals. Then the TV or
recorder could be controlled by its regular remote.

Remember the old days when the VCR remote controlled the TV and that
was all you needed? Imagine, only needing a TV to watch cable or dish
TV in the 21st century.

Sure beats a cable card, no?



Do these ATSC tuners also support QAM?

Do these ATSC tuners that support QAM also have two way capabilities? Can
you order Pay-Per-View movies? Can they tell which premium channels you've
paid for? Do theyt decode the encrypted channles?

Nate

The end of set top boxes?
 

In article ,
"Nate" wrote:

"mogator88" wrote in message
ups.com...
The demise of USDTV got me thinking. With all newly TV's including
ATSC tuners, do we really "need" set top boxes anymore?

[snip]

Well, now that we have TV's and recorders that can natively receive
ATSC, why can't we just have one box where the coax enters the house?
The box could possibly even be mounted outside the home. It would
spit out all the subscribed channels as ATSC signals. Then the TV or
recorder could be controlled by its regular remote.

Remember the old days when the VCR remote controlled the TV and that
was all you needed? Imagine, only needing a TV to watch cable or dish
TV in the 21st century.

Sure beats a cable card, no?



Do these ATSC tuners also support QAM?

No, they are different technologies.

Do these ATSC tuners that support QAM also have two way capabilities? Can
you order Pay-Per-View movies? Can they tell which premium channels you've
paid for? Do theyt decode the encrypted channles?

There are no ATCS/QAM tuners and, as far as I know, no _tuners_ support
two-way signaling. On-demand and pay-per-view are requested by the STB
and use a reverse channel to the provider's head-end to make their
request.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3
7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

The end of set top boxes?
 

In article ,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:

In article ,
Tom Stiller wrote:

There are no ATCS/QAM tuners

That's funny. The digital tuner in my Sanyo can be set to look for QAM
signals.

Not simultaneously with ATSC signals, though. Maybe that's what you
meant.

I suspect that your Sanyo contains two tuners, as do my Sony and Samsung
receivers.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3
7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

The end of set top boxes?
 

"Tom Stiller" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:

In article ,
Tom Stiller wrote:

There are no ATCS/QAM tuners

That's funny. The digital tuner in my Sanyo can be set to look for QAM
signals.

Not simultaneously with ATSC signals, though. Maybe that's what you
meant.

I suspect that your Sanyo contains two tuners, as do my Sony and Samsung
receivers.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3
7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

My PC card has two tuners...one digital and one analog. The digital tuner
is capable of both ATSC and QAM.

My LCD TV has an NTSC tuuner and an ATSC tuner. Nothing in the
documentation says anything about a third tuner or any tuner that supports
QAM...yet it picks up all the clear QAM broadcasts from my bare cable.

I guess I'll have to turn them both off since there is no such thing. LOL

Nate

The end of set top boxes?
 

In article ,
"Nate" wrote:

"Tom Stiller" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:

In article ,
Tom Stiller wrote:

There are no ATCS/QAM tuners

That's funny. The digital tuner in my Sanyo can be set to look for QAM
signals.

Not simultaneously with ATSC signals, though. Maybe that's what you
meant.

I suspect that your Sanyo contains two tuners, as do my Sony and Samsung
receivers.


My PC card has two tuners...one digital and one analog. The digital tuner
is capable of both ATSC and QAM.

My LCD TV has an NTSC tuuner and an ATSC tuner. Nothing in the
documentation says anything about a third tuner or any tuner that supports
QAM...yet it picks up all the clear QAM broadcasts from my bare cable.

I guess I'll have to turn them both off since there is no such thing. LOL


I sit corrected.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3
7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

The end of set top boxes?
 

"Tom Stiller" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Nate" wrote:

"mogator88" wrote in message
ups.com...
The demise of USDTV got me thinking. With all newly TV's including
ATSC tuners, do we really "need" set top boxes anymore?

[snip]

Well, now that we have TV's and recorders that can natively receive
ATSC, why can't we just have one box where the coax enters the house?
The box could possibly even be mounted outside the home. It would
spit out all the subscribed channels as ATSC signals. Then the TV or
recorder could be controlled by its regular remote.

Remember the old days when the VCR remote controlled the TV and that
was all you needed? Imagine, only needing a TV to watch cable or dish
TV in the 21st century.

Sure beats a cable card, no?



Do these ATSC tuners also support QAM?

No, they are different technologies.

Do these ATSC tuners that support QAM also have two way capabilities?
Can
you order Pay-Per-View movies? Can they tell which premium channels
you've
paid for? Do theyt decode the encrypted channles?

There are no ATCS/QAM tuners and, as far as I know, no _tuners_ support
two-way signaling. On-demand and pay-per-view are requested by the STB
and use a reverse channel to the provider's head-end to make their
request.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3
7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

Tuners fall into three categories now.

Analog
Digital
Hybrids

The Hybrids blur the lines because they can be configured to do different
types of tuning. One tuner could be configured to tune NTSC, ATSC, QAM in
any combination and even have two inputs. The most common maybe to have one
input which will tune Analog and unencrypted QAM or analog and digital OTA
dependent on the signal the tuner has hooked to it.

The tuner cards for computers are getting really confusing because first one
must consider if the list of tuning capabilities will be done by one hybrid
or two separate tuners so you can sort out what you can tune. The same I'm
afraid to a lesser degree hold true for television sets except that the
information is easier to find and more accurate.