Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having cancelled
my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of Sky+ so when
I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring about the Sky+ box
I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they didn't have access to that
information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is their on
demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+ boxes (PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB Amstrad
PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much recorded TV and
won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your luck
what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that it was
because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a reconditioned
"grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I informed this when
I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest equipment. I
requested a replacement box via their website today, and I'm awaiting Sky
getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how to
play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so they
know they could easily lose me.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

Interesting question, with other interesting points to ponder.
Does a Sky + box "know" what size disk is fitted?
I have an old Pace + box, supplied (new) with a 40GB Samsung disk, which I
replaced around 18 months ago on the Samsung's failure with a 120GB Western
Digital disk - noisier, but hey, I'm 55 - my hearing's not what it was, the
only complainant is my son when he visits!
I have waiting for installation a 250GB Hitachi drive. It would be nice to
know whether or not Sky's enhancements were limited to box's serial numbers,
or whether they are capable of "reading" the hard disk size....

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having cancelled
my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of Sky+ so
when
I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring about the Sky+
box
I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they didn't have access to
that
information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is their
on
demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+ boxes (PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB
Amstrad
PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much recorded TV and
won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your luck
what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that it was
because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a reconditioned
"grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I informed this
when
I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest equipment. I
requested a replacement box via their website today, and I'm awaiting Sky
getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how to
play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they
know they could easily lose me.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On 2007-03-06, Edster wrote:

Sky Anytime just means that advertisers or broadcasters can pay Sky to
have whatever programme they choose automatically recorded whether the
viewer wants it or not. Its nothing like the Virgin idea where you
have a list of programmes that you can watch whenever you want.

Surely that's identical to Virgin's idea in every way, except the
programs are stored on the user's digibox (~80GB) rather than being
stored on the broadcaster's equipment (multi-TB?). So you get less
choice, but still get to view whatever programs are selected by
Sky or Virgin at any time.

--
David Taylor

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:22:14 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having cancelled
my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of Sky+ so when
I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring about the Sky+ box
I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they didn't have access to that
information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is their on
demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+ boxes (PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB Amstrad
PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much recorded TV and
won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your luck
what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that it was
because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a reconditioned
"grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I informed this when
I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest equipment. I
requested a replacement box via their website today, and I'm awaiting Sky
getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how to
play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so they
know they could easily lose me.

What happens if it ... errr ... fails.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-06, Edster wrote:

Sky Anytime just means that advertisers or broadcasters can pay Sky to
have whatever programme they choose automatically recorded whether the
viewer wants it or not. Its nothing like the Virgin idea where you
have a list of programmes that you can watch whenever you want.

Surely that's identical to Virgin's idea in every way, except the
programs are stored on the user's digibox (~80GB) rather than being
stored on the broadcaster's equipment (multi-TB?). So you get less
choice, but still get to view whatever programs are selected by
Sky or Virgin at any time.


You were expecting logic from Edster? he has a pathological hatred of Sky,
not sure why he hangs around here.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having cancelled
my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of Sky+ so when
I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring about the Sky+ box
I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they didn't have access to
that information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is their
on demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+ boxes
(PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB
Amstrad PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much recorded
TV and won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your luck
what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that it was
because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a reconditioned
"grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I informed this
when I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest equipment. I
requested a replacement box via their website today, and I'm awaiting Sky
getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how to
play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they know they could easily lose me.

How much did you pay? Sounds like you were inadvertently given some sort of
'ex cable' discount based on an old box.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having cancelled
my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of Sky+ so
when I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring about the
Sky+ box I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they didn't have
access to that information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is their
on demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+ boxes
(PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB
Amstrad PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much recorded
TV and won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your luck
what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that it was
because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a
reconditioned "grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I
informed this when I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest equipment.
I requested a replacement box via their website today, and I'm awaiting
Sky getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how to
play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they know they could easily lose me.

How much did you pay? Sounds like you were inadvertently given some sort
of 'ex cable' discount based on an old box.

£50 with free installation.

I wasn't informed that I would be getting a crap box. I also specifically
asked what box I was going to get. If they have a policy of giving the older
boxes to discounted customers then they should at least inform them of that.
Or at the very least be *aware* of it in case the customer asks.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"Jim Watt" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:22:14 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having cancelled
my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of Sky+ so
when
I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring about the Sky+
box
I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they didn't have access to
that
information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is their
on
demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+ boxes (PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB
Amstrad
PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much recorded TV and
won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your luck
what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that it was
because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a reconditioned
"grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I informed this
when
I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest equipment. I
requested a replacement box via their website today, and I'm awaiting Sky
getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how to
play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they
know they could easily lose me.

What happens if it ... errr ... fails.

Hmmm.... I'll make that my last resort... after a game of cancellation
brinkmanship...

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

Tumbleweed wrote:


"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-06, Edster wrote:

Sky Anytime just means that advertisers or broadcasters can pay Sky to
have whatever programme they choose automatically recorded whether the
viewer wants it or not. Its nothing like the Virgin idea where you
have a list of programmes that you can watch whenever you want.

Surely that's identical to Virgin's idea in every way, except the
programs are stored on the user's digibox (~80GB) rather than being
stored on the broadcaster's equipment (multi-TB?). So you get less
choice, but still get to view whatever programs are selected by
Sky or Virgin at any time.


You were expecting logic from Edster? he has a pathological hatred of Sky,
not sure why he hangs around here.

Because Sky doesn't mean all satellite TV and the follow-up was to a.s.t.e.?

Bruce S.
--
Replace the by by blueyonder

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"Edster" wrote in message
...
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message


"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-06, Edster wrote:

Sky Anytime just means that advertisers or broadcasters can pay Sky to
have whatever programme they choose automatically recorded whether the
viewer wants it or not. Its nothing like the Virgin idea where you
have a list of programmes that you can watch whenever you want.

Surely that's identical to Virgin's idea in every way, except the
programs are stored on the user's digibox (~80GB) rather than being
stored on the broadcaster's equipment (multi-TB?). So you get less
choice, but still get to view whatever programs are selected by
Sky or Virgin at any time.


You were expecting logic from Edster? he has a pathological hatred of Sky,
not sure why he hangs around here.

You're right of course, Sky have no interest in making money and only
have the interests of the viewer in mind.

Oh dear... Now that's a definate lie and you know it ;-)

As for the OP, Sky do try to label subsidised boxes as *new*.

As long as they get another mug signed up for 12 months they are'nt
bothered.

That box might just last as long Sky need it to, Then a nice call out fee
for the customer to replace a second hand box!

I have both now but Sky effectively costs the most with replacement boxes,
My last box was replaced by a noisy,crappy Thompson so I doubt that lasting
long hence updating to VM+ for free.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"Michael" wrote in message
...
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having
cancelled my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of
Sky+ so when I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring
about the Sky+ box I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they
didn't have access to that information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is
their on demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+
boxes (PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB
Amstrad PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much
recorded TV and won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your luck
what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that it was
because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a
reconditioned "grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I
informed this when I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest equipment.
I requested a replacement box via their website today, and I'm awaiting
Sky getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how
to play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they know they could easily lose me.

How much did you pay? Sounds like you were inadvertently given some sort
of 'ex cable' discount based on an old box.

£50 with free installation.

I wasn't informed that I would be getting a crap box. I also specifically
asked what box I was going to get. If they have a policy of giving the
older boxes to discounted customers then they should at least inform them
of that. Or at the very least be *aware* of it in case the customer asks.

With SKY you have to take responsibility. Their are stories of people who
bought the Thomson 160 having it replaced with a cheap 40GB one when it went
faulty.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-06, Edster wrote:

Sky Anytime just means that advertisers or broadcasters can pay Sky to
have whatever programme they choose automatically recorded whether the
viewer wants it or not. Its nothing like the Virgin idea where you
have a list of programmes that you can watch whenever you want.

Surely that's identical to Virgin's idea in every way, except the
programs are stored on the user's digibox (~80GB) rather than being
stored on the broadcaster's equipment (multi-TB?). So you get less
choice, but still get to view whatever programs are selected by
Sky or Virgin at any time.

Nope! Sat is a Broadcast Medium. Cable offers each user their own link which
can support users watching what they like, when they like.

SKY Anytime (TV) has to be "broadcast", hence the minuscule content for
which the reserved 160gb is more than enough.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having
cancelled my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of
Sky+ so when I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring
about the Sky+ box I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they
didn't have access to that information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is
their on demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+
boxes (PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB
Amstrad PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much
recorded TV and won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your
luck what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that
it was because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a
reconditioned "grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I
informed this when I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest
equipment. I requested a replacement box via their website today, and
I'm awaiting Sky getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how
to play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they know they could easily lose me.

How much did you pay? Sounds like you were inadvertently given some sort
of 'ex cable' discount based on an old box.

£50 with free installation.

I wasn't informed that I would be getting a crap box. I also specifically
asked what box I was going to get. If they have a policy of giving the
older boxes to discounted customers then they should at least inform them
of that. Or at the very least be *aware* of it in case the customer asks.

With SKY you have to take responsibility. Their are stories of people who
bought the Thomson 160 having it replaced with a cheap 40GB one when it
went faulty.

How much more responsible should I have been? I asked Sky what box I was
going to get and they said they couldn't tell until the installer showed up
at my door with it.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:34:40 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I got Sky+ installed today. I am a new Sky customer after having
cancelled my NTL/Virgin cable TV. I am obviously very keen on the PVR of
Sky+ so when I was ordering Sky last week I made a point of enquiring
about the Sky+ box I will get fitted. The salesperson said that they
didn't have access to that information.

Sky are just about to launch their new Sky Anytime service. This is
their on demand service and it only works with the newest 160GB Sky+
boxes (PVR3).

Of course, when I got Sky+ installed today they fitted a crappy 40GB
Amstrad PVR2 box. This means that it can only store half as much
recorded TV and won't support Sky Anytime.

I called customer services and they said it was basically just your
luck what box you get. Although, they did then say, confusingly, that
it was because I got it discounted as an ex-cable customer, I got a
reconditioned "grade A" box. Well if that's the case then why wasn't I
informed this when I enquired about the box to the Sky sales person?

Surely as a brand new customer I should be getting the newest
equipment. I requested a replacement box via their website today, and
I'm awaiting Sky getting back to me.

Anyone got any ideas what my rights are here? Or suggestions as to how
to play this with Sky?

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they know they could easily lose me.

How much did you pay? Sounds like you were inadvertently given some sort
of 'ex cable' discount based on an old box.

£50 with free installation.

I wasn't informed that I would be getting a crap box. I also specifically
asked what box I was going to get. If they have a policy of giving the
older boxes to discounted customers then they should at least inform them
of that. Or at the very least be *aware* of it in case the customer asks.

With SKY you have to take responsibility. Their are stories of people who
bought the Thomson 160 having it replaced with a cheap 40GB one when it
went faulty.

How much more responsible should I have been? I asked Sky what box I was
going to get and they said they couldn't tell until the installer showed up
at my door with it.

I would have declined to allow it indoors.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they know they could easily lose me.

Phone to cancel, it usually sorts out problems like yours.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"tiscali" wrote in message
...


I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they know they could easily lose me.

Phone to cancel, it usually sorts out problems like yours.

True it might still work although I've seen posts on the group where going
to cancel has ended with Sky saying "Yes sure"

Seems they're worried over something and need all the cash they can.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"The Wizard" wrote in message
...

"tiscali" wrote in message
...


I'm obviously only on day 1 of my 30 day cancellation/refund period, so
they know they could easily lose me.

Phone to cancel, it usually sorts out problems like yours.

True it might still work although I've seen posts on the group where going
to cancel has ended with Sky saying "Yes sure"

Seems they're worried over something and need all the cash they can.


Worst that can happen is you end up with freeview/freesat which is perfectly
adequate.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On 2007-03-07, John Russell wrote:

"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-06, Edster wrote:

Sky Anytime just means that advertisers or broadcasters can pay Sky to
have whatever programme they choose automatically recorded whether the
viewer wants it or not. Its nothing like the Virgin idea where you
have a list of programmes that you can watch whenever you want.

Surely that's identical to Virgin's idea in every way, except the
programs are stored on the user's digibox (~80GB) rather than being
stored on the broadcaster's equipment (multi-TB?). So you get less
choice, but still get to view whatever programs are selected by
Sky or Virgin at any time.

Nope! Sat is a Broadcast Medium. Cable offers each user their own link which
can support users watching what they like, when they like.

SKY Anytime (TV) has to be "broadcast", hence the minuscule content for
which the reserved 160gb is more than enough.

You miss my point. I understand that technically the services are delivered
in a different way, and as a result they can scale to different capacities.
Sky's service is limited, and will have to remain limited. However, it's
exactly the same service (albeit with limited choice) as Virgin's service --
you can watch what you want (from a selection of available programmes),
when you want.

--
David Taylor

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

You miss my point. I understand that technically the services are
delivered
in a different way, and as a result they can scale to different
capacities.
Sky's service is limited, and will have to remain limited. However, it's
exactly the same service (albeit with limited choice) as Virgin's
service --
you can watch what you want (from a selection of available programmes),
when you want.


Limited choice is the crux. You could argue that the normal service is VOD
if you accept your choice is limited to what they want to broadcasts at the
time they chose!

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

You miss my point. I understand that technically the services are
delivered
in a different way, and as a result they can scale to different
capacities.
Sky's service is limited, and will have to remain limited. However, it's
exactly the same service (albeit with limited choice) as Virgin's
service --
you can watch what you want (from a selection of available programmes),
when you want.


Limited choice is the crux. You could argue that the normal service is VOD
if you accept your choice is limited to what they want to broadcasts at
the time they chose!


.....also the SKY+ function allows me to record programs I want to watch
which can then be watched when I want, but that isn't what most people call
VOD either. What SKY is proposing is Forced Recording of programs I "may"
want to watch, restricting the available space on the hard drive for what I
"do" want to watch. It's nothing more than an exercise in appearing
"competitive" so that people like you can think they have VOD when they
don't!

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

John Russell wrote:
"John Russell" wrote in message
...

You miss my point. I understand that technically the services are
delivered
in a different way, and as a result they can scale to different
capacities.
Sky's service is limited, and will have to remain limited. However, it's
exactly the same service (albeit with limited choice)
as Virgin's service --
you can watch what you want (from a selection of available
programmes), when you want.


Limited choice is the crux. You could argue that the normal service
is VOD if you accept your choice is limited to what they want to
broadcasts at the time they chose!


....also the SKY+ function allows me to record programs I want to
watch which can then be watched when I want, but that isn't what most
people call VOD either. What SKY is proposing is Forced Recording of
programs I "may" want to watch, restricting the available space on
the hard drive for what I "do" want to watch. It's nothing more than
an exercise in appearing "competitive" so that people like you can
think they have VOD when they don't!

I totally agree. What Sky is offering is certainly not VOD. David's logic is
flawed.

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:14:07 +0000, Edster wrote:

The difference being that Sky's offering will be from live/broadcast
TV, complete with ad breaks, writing all over the screen, and
banners/shoutovers telling you about programmes coming next that you
have already missed.

You seem to know an awful lot about a service that hasn't launched.
I'd lay money that you're talking out of your backside. Again.

--

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:50:41 -0000, "John Russell"
wrote:

With SKY you have to take responsibility. Their are stories of people who
bought the Thomson 160 having it replaced with a cheap 40GB one when it went
faulty.

Those are either very stupid or very confused people.

--

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"Michael" wrote in message
...
"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"Michael" wrote in message
...
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...

With SKY you have to take responsibility. Their are stories of people
who bought the Thomson 160 having it replaced with a cheap 40GB one when
it went faulty.

How much more responsible should I have been? I asked Sky what box I was
going to get and they said they couldn't tell until the installer showed
up at my door with it.

When I ordered mine I insisted that I got a PVR3. I told them on the phone
(and I also remembered to take the name of whom I speak to) that if it would
NOT a PVR3 I would I would cancel my contract. Needless to say a note was
made on my install docket and a nice man with a PVR3 under his arm turned up
a few days later and he was allowed into my home to install it.

MC

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On 2007-03-09, DannyT wrote:
John Russell wrote:
"John Russell" wrote in message
...

You miss my point. I understand that technically the services are
delivered
in a different way, and as a result they can scale to different
capacities.
Sky's service is limited, and will have to remain limited. However, it's
exactly the same service (albeit with limited choice)
as Virgin's service --
you can watch what you want (from a selection of available
programmes), when you want.


Limited choice is the crux. You could argue that the normal service
is VOD if you accept your choice is limited to what they want to
broadcasts at the time they chose!


....also the SKY+ function allows me to record programs I want to
watch which can then be watched when I want, but that isn't what most
people call VOD either. What SKY is proposing is Forced Recording of
programs I "may" want to watch, restricting the available space on
the hard drive for what I "do" want to watch. It's nothing more than
an exercise in appearing "competitive" so that people like you can
think they have VOD when they don't!

I totally agree. What Sky is offering is certainly not VOD. David's logic is
flawed.

In what way?

What is the _functional_ difference between what Sky are offering and
VOD?

Note that for any VOD service there will be equipment at each end,
how it works is immaterial.

--
David Taylor

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On 2007-03-10, Paul Martin wrote:
In article ,
David Taylor wrote:

What is the _functional_ difference between what Sky are offering and
VOD?

The difference is the size of the library of programmes available to be
viewed.

With cable or Internet VOD, you're only limited by the amount of
storage at the provider. With Sky's system, it's limited by the size of
the reserved partition on your Sky+ box.

Yes, I said all that in my original posts on the service.

It _is_ a VOD service. A VOD service with limited choice certainly,
but it is still Video On Demand.

--
David Taylor

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"Paul Martin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Taylor wrote:

What is the _functional_ difference between what Sky are offering and
VOD?

The difference is the size of the library of programmes available to be
viewed.

With cable or Internet VOD, you're only limited by the amount of
storage at the provider. With Sky's system, it's limited by the size of
the reserved partition on your Sky+ box.



Incorrect. With cable or Internet you are limited by what they decide to
make available.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"Paul Martin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tumbleweed wrote:

"Paul Martin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Taylor wrote:

What is the _functional_ difference between what Sky are offering and
VOD?

The difference is the size of the library of programmes available to be
viewed.

With cable or Internet VOD, you're only limited by the amount of
storage at the provider. With Sky's system, it's limited by the size of
the reserved partition on your Sky+ box.

Incorrect. With cable or Internet you are limited by what they decide to
make available.

Non sequitur. I said nothing about who chooses the content that's
available. Do you think you will have any more choice with Sky?


No, less of course.

But you said "With cable or Internet VOD, you're only limited by the amount
of
storage at the provider".

And thats not true. That was my point, nothing else.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On 2007-03-12, Paul Martin wrote:
In article ,
Tumbleweed wrote:

But you said "With cable or Internet VOD, you're only limited by the
amount of storage at the provider".

And thats not true. That was my point, nothing else.

In what way is it not true?

The limit is NOT "the amount of storage at the provider". The limit
is "the content the provider CHOOSES to make available".

I have no reason to believe that the choice
of programmes available will be limited to what can be squeezed into a
single 80GB partition. Should the VOD provider wish to double the
amount of content available, they can do so without supplying new
equipment to the subscriber.

Yes. If they wish to pay for the storage AND THE RIGHTS to the content.

Now, Virgin/NTL's end user equipment leaves a lot to be desired. eg.
You put it on one channel before going to bed, and in the morning the
display says it's still on that channel, but what you're viewing is a
totally different channel. The box crashes and freezes regularly. If
the TV service wasn't free now, I'd have cancelled it. The phone
service has been reliable for the last 10 years. (It was NYNEX when it
was installed.)

As I said, Sky's service will offer a service to the user which is
functionally identical to Virgin/NTL's, there will just be less choice.

--
David Taylor

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-09, DannyT wrote:
John Russell wrote:
"John Russell" wrote in message
...

You miss my point. I understand that technically the services are
delivered
in a different way, and as a result they can scale to different
capacities.
Sky's service is limited, and will have to remain limited. However,
it's
exactly the same service (albeit with limited choice)
as Virgin's service --
you can watch what you want (from a selection of available
programmes), when you want.


Limited choice is the crux. You could argue that the normal service
is VOD if you accept your choice is limited to what they want to
broadcasts at the time they chose!


....also the SKY+ function allows me to record programs I want to
watch which can then be watched when I want, but that isn't what most
people call VOD either. What SKY is proposing is Forced Recording of
programs I "may" want to watch, restricting the available space on
the hard drive for what I "do" want to watch. It's nothing more than
an exercise in appearing "competitive" so that people like you can
think they have VOD when they don't!

I totally agree. What Sky is offering is certainly not VOD. David's logic
is
flawed.

In what way?

What is the _functional_ difference between what Sky are offering and
VOD?

Note that for any VOD service there will be equipment at each end,
how it works is immaterial.

VOD which is nothing more than "Forced Recording" is miss-selling. The
fundemental aspect of VOD is that the user is in control of the programs he
wants the broadcaster to supply to him, unlike broadcasting where the
supplier decides what "everyone" will get. The user has no control over the
progrems sent to the disk, so this isn't VOD. If you don't like the idea
"Forced Recoding" let's call it "Buffered Broadcasting", but VOD it isn't!

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

On 2007-03-12, John Russell wrote:
"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-09, DannyT wrote:

I totally agree. What Sky is offering is certainly not VOD. David's logic
is flawed.

In what way?

What is the _functional_ difference between what Sky are offering and
VOD?

Note that for any VOD service there will be equipment at each end,
how it works is immaterial.

VOD which is nothing more than "Forced Recording" is miss-selling.

I'll ask again: what is the _functional_ difference between
what Sky are offering and VOD?

The
fundemental aspect of VOD is that the user is in control of the programs he
wants the broadcaster to supply to him, unlike broadcasting where the
supplier decides what "everyone" will get.

The fundemental aspect of VOD is Video _On Demand_. The user is
in control of _when_ he watches any of the available programmes. The user
is never in control of _what_ programs are available. The difference
between Sky and Virgin/NTL's service is merely the size of the "menu".

If you seriously believe that the non-Sky services will grow to the extent
that you can watch ANYTHING you want WHENEVER you want, I expect you'll
be disappointed. They won't pay for the rights to show every program
or film ever made, you'll just have to pick from a selection.

The user has no control over the
progrems sent to the disk, so this isn't VOD.

The user has no control over what programmes Virgin or NTL make
available either!

If you don't like the idea
"Forced Recoding" let's call it "Buffered Broadcasting", but VOD it isn't!

Until you can actually show a functional difference, to the user, between
the Virgin/NTL and Sky offerings I will continue to call it Video
on Demand.

--
David Taylor

Older Sky+ box provided for new install
 

"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-12, John Russell wrote:
"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2007-03-09, DannyT wrote:

I totally agree. What Sky is offering is certainly not VOD. David's
logic
is flawed.

In what way?

What is the _functional_ difference between what Sky are offering and
VOD?

Note that for any VOD service there will be equipment at each end,
how it works is immaterial.

VOD which is nothing more than "Forced Recording" is miss-selling.

I'll ask again: what is the _functional_ difference between
what Sky are offering and VOD?

The
fundemental aspect of VOD is that the user is in control of the programs
he
wants the broadcaster to supply to him, unlike broadcasting where the
supplier decides what "everyone" will get.

The fundemental aspect of VOD is Video _On Demand_. The user is
in control of _when_ he watches any of the available programmes. The user
is never in control of _what_ programs are available. The difference
between Sky and Virgin/NTL's service is merely the size of the "menu".

If you seriously believe that the non-Sky services will grow to the extent
that you can watch ANYTHING you want WHENEVER you want, I expect you'll
be disappointed. They won't pay for the rights to show every program
or film ever made, you'll just have to pick from a selection.

The user has no control over the
progrems sent to the disk, so this isn't VOD.

The user has no control over what programmes Virgin or NTL make
available either!

If you don't like the idea
"Forced Recoding" let's call it "Buffered Broadcasting", but VOD it
isn't!

Until you can actually show a functional difference, to the user, between
the Virgin/NTL and Sky offerings I will continue to call it Video
on Demand.


It's functionally no different from SKY+ recording! I would go so far to say
that Broadcast TV, or SKY+ recording or VOD are all functionally the same.
They are all about users watching TV programs selected by the supplier. So
functionality is not the issue, shifting control of what is recieved to the
user is the key issue!

This is not a stepping stone to VOD as demonstrated in Japan where
terrabytes of video where avialable via very high bandwidth cable. It's a
Cul de Sac. It's nothing more than an attempt by a company stuck with
broadcast technology to kill off the first steps by the cable supplier to
offer VOD as demonstrated in Japan.