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DTT in Ireland & PC World

For those of you who didn't already know it, Ireland's economy is
booming. The 'Celtic Tiger' means that everyone is driving around
in brand new Mercedes and using 100-euro notes to light their turf
fires with.
To take advantage of this new found wealth many UK stores and
businesses are setting up shop. (Including yours truly who is making
far more as a rigger than he ever could in penny-pinching Northants.
Some are welcome, after 6 years without I now have a Halfords within
reach, even a B&Q to stock up on No More Nails. Some are not.....
After picking up some lovely new ratchet spanners from Halfords to
replace the ones I've left on chimney stacks, I popped into PC World.
I was after a USB to serial adaptor so I could download software to
satellite receivers from my laptop. I was assured by a very confident
young fella that such a thing does not exist ..err um..
Anyway, as I was there I had a nose around and was surprised to see a
large range of DTT and tuner cards and USB devices. Now one or two of
the DVB-T PCI cards also had analogue tuners, but the majority did not.
None of the USB devices had analogue tuners, as far as I could see. I
had a look at the LCD tellys. Some had integrated DVB-T tuners and
were being promoted as digital TVs. The showcard said "Over 25
digital channels available". NOT!!
There is of course not a hope of getting DTT in Cork or most of the
Republic for the
foreseeable future. Trials are currently being run from one transmitter
covering the Dublin area, and people close to the Northern Ireland
border can pick it up from Divis, also the Wexford coast in the South
East can get a sea path from Presley, but Cork? Not a hope in hell! I
found the (English) store manager and pointed put to him that he was
selling products that did not work in the area where they were being
sold. He told me he was aware of this, but there was nothing he could
do about it. He was sent the products and had to put them out. He had
already contacted head office and they said to sell them. I then asked
if it would be a good idea is put a sign up saying-
" At the moment there are no Digital Terrestrial broadcasts in this
area and this product will not work". He did not think he would be
allowed to do this. Good to see that DSG are maintaining their usual
standards!
I have had one or two service calls in the past to check out aerials
where it has turned out they are trying to use a digital tuner, I guess
I should be ready for a good few more!

DTT in Ireland & PC World

I McD wrote:
For those of you who didn't already know it, Ireland's economy is
booming. The 'Celtic Tiger' means that everyone is driving around
in brand new Mercedes and using 100-euro notes to light their turf
fires with.
To take advantage of this new found wealth many UK stores and
businesses are setting up shop. (Including yours truly who is making
far more as a rigger than he ever could in penny-pinching Northants.
Some are welcome, after 6 years without I now have a Halfords within
reach, even a B&Q to stock up on No More Nails. Some are not.....
After picking up some lovely new ratchet spanners from Halfords to
replace the ones I've left on chimney stacks, I popped into PC World.
I was after a USB to serial adaptor so I could download software to
satellite receivers from my laptop. I was assured by a very
confident young fella that such a thing does not exist ..err um..
Anyway, as I was there I had a nose around and was surprised to see a
large range of DTT and tuner cards and USB devices. Now one or two of
the DVB-T PCI cards also had analogue tuners, but the majority did
not. None of the USB devices had analogue tuners, as far as I could
see. I had a look at the LCD tellys. Some had integrated DVB-T
tuners and were being promoted as digital TVs. The showcard said
"Over 25
digital channels available". NOT!!

Hmmm, I'm not sure I believe this bizarre story. Why would PC World waste
their time doing such a ridiculous and probably illegal activity? It would
be scandalous and kill their credibility in Ireland stone dead.

DTT in Ireland & PC World

Hmmm, I'm not sure I believe this bizarre story. Why would PC World waste
their time doing such a ridiculous and probably illegal activity? It would
be scandalous and kill their credibility in Ireland stone dead.

Believe it or not, I guess they have just shipped their entire product
range over and bugger local market conditions. Either that or the
manager is an arrogant llittle sod talking complete and utter bollox.
I will email DSG to see what they have to say. Anyone got a good
contact there?
I have not had a chance to look in the Currys next door yet. I bet they
have Freeview STBs.

DTT in Ireland & PC World

"I McD" wrote:

Anyway, as I was there I had a nose around and was surprised to see a
large range of DTT and tuner cards and USB devices. Now one or two of
the DVB-T PCI cards also had analogue tuners, but the majority did not.
None of the USB devices had analogue tuners, as far as I could see. I
had a look at the LCD tellys. Some had integrated DVB-T tuners and
were being promoted as digital TVs. The showcard said "Over 25
digital channels available". NOT!! ...

I wondered if this should be crossposted with an Irish technical
newsgroup, but I see that none exist. Ireland seems to be poorly
represented on Usenet. A web search on keywords related to this post
turned up a copy of the above that you'd posted on www.boards.ie which
seems to be a popular site, so I guess that the Irish prefer web forums.

--
Dave Farrance

DTT in Ireland & PC World

Hmmm, I'm not sure I believe this bizarre story. Why would PC World
waste their time doing such a ridiculous and probably illegal
activity? It would be scandalous and kill their credibility in
Ireland stone dead.

Believe it or not, I guess they have just shipped their entire product
range over and bugger local market conditions. Either that or the
manager is an arrogant llittle sod talking complete and utter bollox.

Both probably.

I will email DSG to see what they have to say. Anyone got a good
contact there?

I have not had a chance to look in the Currys next door yet. I bet
they have Freeview STBs.

Same company so probably the same attitude. Is there an Irish Trading
standards equivalent?

Peter Crosland

DTT in Ireland & PC World

"I McD" wrote in message
ups.com...

Hmmm, I'm not sure I believe this bizarre story. Why would PC World waste
their time doing such a ridiculous and probably illegal activity? It
would
be scandalous and kill their credibility in Ireland stone dead.

Believe it or not, I guess they have just shipped their entire product
range over and bugger local market conditions. Either that or the
manager is an arrogant llittle sod talking complete and utter bollox.

In PC World? Surely not!

DTT in Ireland & PC World

..

I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.

Absolutely not! Most Irish people take every opportunity to inform you
of there independent status.
Try expressing such views in a pub in Kilburn and see what you get!
(Of course everybody knows that NW6 and NW2 (Counties Kilburn and
Cricklewood) are really part of the Republic of Ireland.)
It's PC World who do not know where they are-
'Where in the world? - PC World!'
they sing in that annoying jingle, do you think someone should tell
them? IRELAND.

DTT in Ireland & PC World

Alan Pemberton wrote:
Dave Farrance wrote:

"I McD" wrote:

Anyway, as I was there I had a nose around and was surprised to see
a large range of DTT and tuner cards and USB devices. Now one or
two of the DVB-T PCI cards also had analogue tuners, but the
majority did not. None of the USB devices had analogue tuners, as
far as I could see. I had a look at the LCD tellys. Some had
integrated DVB-T tuners and were being promoted as digital TVs. The
showcard said "Over 25
digital channels available". NOT!! ...

I wondered if this should be crossposted with an Irish technical
newsgroup, but I see that none exist. Ireland seems to be poorly
represented on Usenet. A web search on keywords related to this post
turned up a copy of the above that you'd posted on www.boards.ie
which seems to be a popular site, so I guess that the Irish prefer
web forums.

I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.

Don't be ridiculous!

DTT in Ireland & PC World

"Adrian A" wrote in message
...
Alan Pemberton wrote:
Dave Farrance wrote:

"I McD" wrote:

Anyway, as I was there I had a nose around and was surprised to see
a large range of DTT and tuner cards and USB devices. Now one or
two of the DVB-T PCI cards also had analogue tuners, but the
majority did not. None of the USB devices had analogue tuners, as
far as I could see. I had a look at the LCD tellys. Some had
integrated DVB-T tuners and were being promoted as digital TVs. The
showcard said "Over 25
digital channels available". NOT!! ...

I wondered if this should be crossposted with an Irish technical
newsgroup, but I see that none exist. Ireland seems to be poorly
represented on Usenet. A web search on keywords related to this post
turned up a copy of the above that you'd posted on www.boards.ie
which seems to be a popular site, so I guess that the Irish prefer
web forums.

I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.

Don't be ridiculous!

Sorry for hijacking this thread but I bought a Belkin USB wireless adapter
from PCWorld. Says on the box works with Windows 98SE up to Windows XP. I
have 3 computers one Windows 98SE, one Windows 2000 and third Windows XP.
The adapter works on the Windows 2000 and Windows XP computers but would not
even install on the Windows 98SE computer. When plugged in the computer went
through the motions then said it could not find the device although it knew
it was plugged in. So I thought, I'll just take it back and get another
make.

No chance.

Their technical person plugged it into a Windows XP computer and said it
works so no refund or exchange. I then asked to see the manager and guess
what? an arrogant little prick turned up and said that the adapter was not
faulty I was not getting a refund and that it was my settings on the Windows
98SE computer. I even said I would buy a more expensive adapter but the
arrogant little prick said no. So does anyone have an email address that I
can complain to about this arrogant little prick?
If I had paid £3 more and bought another type out of my local ASDA I would
had a refund no bother.
Thanks Ron

DTT in Ireland & PC World

I McD wrote:
.
I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.

Absolutely not! Most Irish people take every opportunity to inform you
of there independent status.

Maybe that, but looking at some Irish TV on the west coast and content
in the 'red top' tabloid press, you might be supprised at how much UK
influenced non-political stories and programmes dominate. Even
Eastenders gets an airing on RTE.

Try expressing such views in a pub in Kilburn and see what you get!
(Of course everybody knows that NW6 and NW2 (Counties Kilburn and
Cricklewood) are really part of the Republic of Ireland.)

Nah. Guniness still tastes strange ...

It's PC World who do not know where they are-
'Where in the world? - PC World!'
they sing in that annoying jingle, do you think someone should tell
them? IRELAND.

So Ireland looks like they may be having a go with MPEG4 DTT as well as
MPEG2 8k. Probably they will get a better DTT HD service before the UK
does ;-(

Glenn has previously posted this URL which I thought I'd repeat as it's
of relevance to this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=56

--
Adrian C

DTT in Ireland & PC World

"ronald" wrote in message
.uk...

"Adrian A" wrote in message
...
Alan Pemberton wrote:
Dave Farrance wrote:

"I McD" wrote:

Anyway, as I was there I had a nose around and was surprised to see
a large range of DTT and tuner cards and USB devices. Now one or
two of the DVB-T PCI cards also had analogue tuners, but the
majority did not. None of the USB devices had analogue tuners, as
far as I could see. I had a look at the LCD tellys. Some had
integrated DVB-T tuners and were being promoted as digital TVs. The
showcard said "Over 25
digital channels available". NOT!! ...

I wondered if this should be crossposted with an Irish technical
newsgroup, but I see that none exist. Ireland seems to be poorly
represented on Usenet. A web search on keywords related to this post
turned up a copy of the above that you'd posted on www.boards.ie
which seems to be a popular site, so I guess that the Irish prefer
web forums.

I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.

Don't be ridiculous!

Sorry for hijacking this thread but I bought a Belkin USB wireless adapter
from PCWorld. Says on the box works with Windows 98SE up to Windows XP. I
have 3 computers one Windows 98SE, one Windows 2000 and third Windows XP.
The adapter works on the Windows 2000 and Windows XP computers but would
not
even install on the Windows 98SE computer. When plugged in the computer
went
through the motions then said it could not find the device although it
knew
it was plugged in. So I thought, I'll just take it back and get another
make.

No chance.

Their technical person plugged it into a Windows XP computer and said it
works so no refund or exchange. I then asked to see the manager and guess
what? an arrogant little prick turned up and said that the adapter was not
faulty I was not getting a refund and that it was my settings on the
Windows
98SE computer. I even said I would buy a more expensive adapter but the
arrogant little prick said no. So does anyone have an email address that I
can complain to about this arrogant little prick?

You probably find that another 98 machine would work OK. I have had this
problem with USB ADSL adaptors. Goes through the motions of installing, then
you can't find out what the problem is. In the end I re-installed Windows
from the CD. Worked fine. I nearly fell off my chair with shock.

If I had paid £3 more and bought another type out of my local ASDA I would
had a refund no bother.

Probably better tech support as well...

Thanks Ron

DTT in Ireland & PC World

OT: Belkin USB problems on Win98SE

ronald wrote:
Sorry for hijacking this thread but I bought a Belkin USB wireless adapter
from PCWorld. Says on the box works with Windows 98SE up to Windows XP. I
have 3 computers one Windows 98SE, one Windows 2000 and third Windows XP.
The adapter works on the Windows 2000 and Windows XP computers but would not
even install on the Windows 98SE computer. When plugged in the computer went
through the motions then said it could not find the device although it knew
it was plugged in. So I thought, I'll just take it back and get another
make.

Did you install the software from CD before plugging the device in?
Tried Belkin's online technical support?

--
Adrian C

DTT in Ireland & PC World

Vaughan wrote:
Alan Pemberton wrote:
Dave Farrance wrote:

"I McD" wrote:

Anyway, as I was there I had a nose around and was surprised to see
a large range of DTT and tuner cards and USB devices. Now one or
two of the DVB-T PCI cards also had analogue tuners, but the
majority did not. None of the USB devices had analogue tuners, as
far as I could see. I had a look at the LCD tellys. Some had
integrated DVB-T tuners and were being promoted as digital TVs. The
showcard said "Over 25
digital channels available". NOT!! ...

I wondered if this should be crossposted with an Irish technical
newsgroup, but I see that none exist. Ireland seems to be poorly
represented on Usenet. A web search on keywords related to this post
turned up a copy of the above that you'd posted on www.boards.ie
which seems to be a popular site, so I guess that the Irish prefer
web forums.

I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.

I think even by this December your post will still get the 'most
igorant post of the year' award.

Or even 'ignorant' lol - usenet law strikes again.

DTT in Ireland & PC World

"Vaughan" wrote in message
.uk...
I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.

I think even by this December your post will still get the 'most
igorant post of the year' award.

Presumably the Irish, like the Welsh and the Scots, go on about being a
nation state while it suits them, then when it doesn't they don't. I don't
blame them for that. I mean, the whole of the UK has the same attitude about
being a state of the USA, and after all, if Yorkshire didn't rely for its
defence on London we'd have been invaded by Saddam Hussein years ago. And
that would be horrible because they don't allow supping in those arab lands
do they?

Bill

DTT in Ireland & PC World

AS I understand it Ireland is due have digital in 2008.
They are commited to digital switch over in 2012 anyway:O)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...ion_in_Ireland

"I McD" wrote in message
ups.com...
For those of you who didn't already know it, Ireland's economy is
booming. The 'Celtic Tiger' means that everyone is driving around
in brand new Mercedes and using 100-euro notes to light their turf
fires with.
To take advantage of this new found wealth many UK stores and
businesses are setting up shop. (Including yours truly who is making
far more as a rigger than he ever could in penny-pinching Northants.
Some are welcome, after 6 years without I now have a Halfords within
reach, even a B&Q to stock up on No More Nails. Some are not.....
After picking up some lovely new ratchet spanners from Halfords to
replace the ones I've left on chimney stacks, I popped into PC World.
I was after a USB to serial adaptor so I could download software to
satellite receivers from my laptop. I was assured by a very confident
young fella that such a thing does not exist ..err um..
Anyway, as I was there I had a nose around and was surprised to see a
large range of DTT and tuner cards and USB devices. Now one or two of
the DVB-T PCI cards also had analogue tuners, but the majority did not.
None of the USB devices had analogue tuners, as far as I could see. I
had a look at the LCD tellys. Some had integrated DVB-T tuners and
were being promoted as digital TVs. The showcard said "Over 25
digital channels available". NOT!!
There is of course not a hope of getting DTT in Cork or most of the
Republic for the
foreseeable future. Trials are currently being run from one transmitter
covering the Dublin area, and people close to the Northern Ireland
border can pick it up from Divis, also the Wexford coast in the South
East can get a sea path from Presley, but Cork? Not a hope in hell! I
found the (English) store manager and pointed put to him that he was
selling products that did not work in the area where they were being
sold. He told me he was aware of this, but there was nothing he could
do about it. He was sent the products and had to put them out. He had
already contacted head office and they said to sell them. I then asked
if it would be a good idea is put a sign up saying-
" At the moment there are no Digital Terrestrial broadcasts in this
area and this product will not work". He did not think he would be
allowed to do this. Good to see that DSG are maintaining their usual
standards!
I have had one or two service calls in the past to check out aerials
where it has turned out they are trying to use a digital tuner, I guess
I should be ready for a good few more!

DTT in Ireland & PC World

In article , Bill Wright wrote:
Presumably the Irish, like the Welsh and the Scots, go on about being a
nation state while it suits them, then when it doesn't they don't. I don't
blame them for that. I mean, the whole of the UK has the same attitude about
being a state of the USA, and after all, if Yorkshire didn't rely for its
defence on London we'd have been invaded by Saddam Hussein years ago. And
that would be horrible because they don't allow supping in those arab lands
do they?

Apparently we're no longer a state of the USA. There was a fascinating
documentary on BBC4 the other night explaining that as from January 1st this
year we finally paid off the four point something billion dollar loan the USA
gave us just after the second world war. I wonder if there will be any
noticeable changes in the way our politicians behave towards the Yanks now that
we're no longer in debt to them?

Rod.

DTT in Ireland & PC World

Bill Wright wrote:
"Vaughan" wrote in message
.uk...
I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.
I think even by this December your post will still get the 'most
igorant post of the year' award.

Presumably the Irish, like the Welsh and the Scots, go on about being a
nation state while it suits them, then when it doesn't they don't. I don't
blame them for that. I mean, the whole of the UK has the same attitude about
being a state of the USA, and after all, if Yorkshire didn't rely for its
defence on London we'd have been invaded by Saddam Hussein years ago. And
that would be horrible because they don't allow supping in those arab lands
do they?

Bill

You're just winding people up deliberatley now.

The people of S. Ireland consider themselves nothing less than pure
Irish, the people of the North are a little more confused, or rather
there are differing opinions and they have the option of both passports.

S.Ireland was always (in my lifetime) been a nation state, of
S.Ireland... it is another Country!!!!

--
Tony
N.Ireland

DTT in Ireland & PC World

"Tony" wrote in message

Bill Wright wrote:
"Vaughan" wrote in message
.uk...
I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.
I think even by this December your post will still get the 'most
igorant post of the year' award.

Presumably the Irish, like the Welsh and the Scots, go on about
being a nation state while it suits them, then when it doesn't they
don't. I don't blame them for that. I mean, the whole of the UK has
the same attitude about being a state of the USA, and after all, if
Yorkshire didn't rely for its defence on London we'd have been
invaded by Saddam Hussein years ago. And that would be horrible
because they don't allow supping in those arab lands do they?

You're just winding people up deliberatley now.

The people of S. Ireland consider themselves nothing less than pure
Irish, the people of the North are a little more confused, or rather
there are differing opinions and they have the option of both
passports.
S.Ireland was always (in my lifetime) been a nation state, of
S.Ireland... it is another Country!!!!

But they call themselves 'Ireland' and admit of no other nationality.

They just can't cope with the idea that there is such a place as 'Northern
Ireland' and refuse to use the term.

--
Max Demian

DTT in Ireland & PC World

Max Demian wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message

Bill Wright wrote:
"Vaughan" wrote in message
.uk...
I expect they consider themselves to be part of the UK.
I think even by this December your post will still get the 'most
igorant post of the year' award.
Presumably the Irish, like the Welsh and the Scots, go on about
being a nation state while it suits them, then when it doesn't they
don't. I don't blame them for that. I mean, the whole of the UK has
the same attitude about being a state of the USA, and after all, if
Yorkshire didn't rely for its defence on London we'd have been
invaded by Saddam Hussein years ago. And that would be horrible
because they don't allow supping in those arab lands do they?

You're just winding people up deliberatley now.

The people of S. Ireland consider themselves nothing less than pure
Irish, the people of the North are a little more confused, or rather
there are differing opinions and they have the option of both
passports.
S.Ireland was always (in my lifetime) been a nation state, of
S.Ireland... it is another Country!!!!

But they call themselves 'Ireland' and admit of no other nationality.

They just can't cope with the idea that there is such a place as 'Northern
Ireland' and refuse to use the term.

They did have a claim to N.Ireland in their constitution (I think thats
what its called), but I believe it was withdrawn some time ago as it was
getting in the way for good relations between the UK and Irish Gov't.

I never heard anything bad about N.Ireland from S.Ireland people (maybe
I wasn't listening), they don't seem that bothered these days and quite
like the shopping flexibility (and doing the triple was once a lucrative
past time).

Anyway (before I say something that might offend someone), every one is
friends these days, apart from the ususal cultural dislike (between N.
England, S. England, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland, S.Ireland, etc etc)
nonone is actually bombing anyone anymore (for the most). Having said
that, I lived in N.Ireland for 38 years never being disrupted by bombs
despite living close to Belfast, then I moved to London and the entire
city got shut down twice not long after. Soon English people will be
saying 'ah its not as bad as you see on the News, you should come over
its good craig'.

--
Tony

DTT in Ireland & PC World

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
In article , Bill Wright wrote:
Presumably the Irish, like the Welsh and the Scots, go on about being a
nation state while it suits them, then when it doesn't they don't. I
don't
blame them for that. I mean, the whole of the UK has the same attitude
about
being a state of the USA, and after all, if Yorkshire didn't rely for its
defence on London we'd have been invaded by Saddam Hussein years ago. And
that would be horrible because they don't allow supping in those arab
lands
do they?

Apparently we're no longer a state of the USA. There was a fascinating
documentary on BBC4 the other night explaining that as from January 1st
this
year we finally paid off the four point something billion dollar loan the
USA
gave us just after the second world war. I wonder if there will be any
noticeable changes in the way our politicians behave towards the Yanks now
that
we're no longer in debt to them?
Rod.

Not whilst the Treasury run the country, they are dependent on the US to
provide
a cheap nuke deterent so we can remain a nuke world power.
Have you read Jim Folletts ideas on it?
I'll paste them below

Steve Terry
------------------------
By James Follett

Few people understand the central subsidy part or see how 11 Downing Street
has its hand on local affairs.

Treasury's grip on the entire country is extraordinary, right down to
determining how and what repeats the BBC air and the technical standards
of their broadcasts. It was the treasury media analysis team that nearly
buggered Tetra.

SIR HUMPHREY: Prime minister -- if this information were to fall
into enemy hands...

JIM HACKER: Why should the Russians care?

SIR HUMPHREY: (patiently) The treasury, prime minister.
The Russians already know about it.

Treasury has absolute and incontrovertible power of veto over the
cabinet which it largely ignores. The contempt that treasury office have
for the cabinet office is well-known. Treasury and their mates at
foreign are Trinity House and Balliol first class honours men in
philosophy etc -- an elite clique determined to ensure that the UK
remains a world power -- whereas cabinet are regarded as a bunch of
loudmouth grammar school oinks with a predilection for shagging anything
they can lay their hands on.

Recent examples of treasury use of their veto was when a new Labour
government had the spiffing wheeze of a crime prevention initiative by
empowering local authorities to impose and enforce curfews on miscreant
kiddiwinks. A great idea! Trebles all round! Bloody expensive, though.
Trouble is no one thought to square it with treasury so that when local
authorities approached them for financial cover, they were told what to
do smartish. As far as I know, the idea was stillborn, has never been
implemented by any local authority, and heralded a whole series of
Labour's spiffing wheeze notions that were dead in the water because
treasury so decided.

Best of all was when, in 1999, the Blair suddenly took it into his
muddled head that the UK should embrace the euro. In a keynote speech he
even announced a timetable for the abolition of sterling. Trouble is
that the Blair didn't appraise treasury of his mad cap scheme and they
killed it stone dead. Can't have grammar school tykes deciding that the
currency of the huns, frogs, and assorted dago countries with their
wretched olive oil economies is suitable for England!

Going back a few years, the Major government had an embarrassing
community tax shortfall. Norman Lamont sounded out his treasury PS on
the release of strategic war reserve funds to bridge the gap. About a
month later, when the PS stopped laughing, he told cabinet to **** off,
and Lamont had to recover the missing dosh by bunging 2-1/2 per cent on
the standard rate of VAT. No way were treasury going to upset foreign by
dipping into their strategic funds to bail out the feeble Major
government. According to John Major's biography, on the notorious day
when interest rates were ratcheted up to around 15 per cent, Norman
Lamont, supposedly the government's conduit with treasury, had no idea
what was going on and couldn't even be found!

Pinning down the source of treasury power, which has been remarkably
variable over the last half century, needs a far more competent
political commentator than me. C P Snow is a good start but hardly
up-to-date and even he could not have envisaged the incredible power
that treasury have today. In general when a government is strong,
treasury is weak; when government is weak, treasury is strong. I don't
mean strong or weak government in terms of backbenchers' bums on seats
sense, but in vision, drive, decisiveness and initiative. The UK has
suffered two relatively weak, indecisive governments: Major and Blair.
Treasury have gleefully expanded their influence to fill the lassitude
vacuum with the result that cabinet is now impotent and is not even
called upon to vote on anything. Cabinet had no knowledge of the merger
between Customs and Excise and Revenue until Gordon Brown stood up in
parliament about three years ago to announce it. Customs was an ancient,
efficient and largely incorruptible government department and yet it was
swept aside on the whim of treasury without any parliamentary debate or
cabinet decision-making.

It's hard to pin down the genesis of this present power seizure but
going back to an historic agreement nearly half a century ago in Bermuda
between Harold Macmillan and President Kennedy marks as good a starting
point as any. It was an extraordinary treaty because it resulted in
America selling nuclear arms delivery and maintenance systems to a
trusted ally. This was unheard of then and it still is today. But for
foreign and treasury it was a trebles all round decision because it
enabled the UK to remain in the nuclear club whilst clinging to its
prized permanent seat on the UN Security Council without having to
retain a costly R and D nuclear weapons programme.

To understand why foreign and treasury hold a permanent UN seat so dear
is because of the tremendous political clout they perceive it carries.
The five members are deemed world powers, with the UK among them. That
matters very much to the oxbridge guard.

The tacit agreement with the US has been that the UK should always side
with the US in the UN on important issues, abstain on lesser issue, and
never ever use the veto against the US.

There wasn't much of a threat to treasury's power until Harold Wilson
got thoroughly ****ed off with them for scuppering (among other wheezes)
his land commission and option mortgage schemes -- bold ideas for
acquiring building land and providing first home buyers with cheap
mortgages. No way were treasury going to let a cabinet destabilise the
property market; the ideas never got off the ground.

Harold Wilson's bright counter idea to thwart treasury was to set up his
own rival treasury -- the Department of Economic Affairs. For a while
the UK had two treasuries! Unfortunately for Harold he made the grievous
mistake of putting an ignorant, bullying, vain drunkard in charge of his
brainchild. The appointment of George-Brown was a sop to old labour but
treasury mandarins could out-think and out-smart such an incredible
dullard with little effort. A few inspired leaks to lobby correspondents
about George-Brown's boorish, drunken behaviour and he was finished.

NB: History was to repeat itself when Tony Blair appointed the
appalling John Prescott as deputy prime minister. Treasury could
hardly believe their luck in being handed on a plate such an
oafish, utterly repulsive, bullying slug for them to sideline
and out-smart without trying. As with George-Brown, a few words
in the right lobby correspondent ears on leads to follow-up and
Prescott was finished.

Things continued reasonably smoothly until Margaret Thatcher became PM.
The worrying aspect about Maggie's reign was that she was in power for
so long that civil service middle management saw her administration as
having more influence over their careers than their immediate superiors.
Particularly when she shook treasury by vetoing proposals to join the
exchange rate mechanism. Nevertheless throughout most of her time in
power Nigel Lawson was chancellor -- the longest-serving chancellor
until Gordon Brown. Prime Ministers rarely sack chancellors because it
undermines City and foreign market confidence -- much better to behave
in a manner calculated to push them into resigning such as Mrs T
retaining Sir Alan Walters as her personal economic advisor. A risky
strategy. Mrs T's authority never really recovered fro the mild-mannered
Geoffrey Howe's hard-hitting resignation speech.

Treasury power was shaken but not seriously undermined because through
most of her reign Mrs T never had an inkling that the UK was shadowing
the W. German mark. In his biography 'The View From No 11' Lawson had no
regrets, and certainly no qualms, that this vital information was
withheld from her.

By and large treasury went on consolidating their power throughout the
1980s and 90s, focusing most of their cuts on internal policing in the
belief that the English are inherently honest and that society doesn't
require much policing. All went reasonably well until President-Elect
Clinton learned about the UK's clandestine and never fully explained
role in CREP -- the campaign to re-elect President Bush. Clinton, to
coin a cliche, went ballistic. His immediate reaction was to get the UK
tossed out of it's permanent seat on the UN security council along with
France -- whom he never trusted anyway. Clinton's view was that the UK
and France represented the old guard. The future was in the hands of the
two major economic powers of Germany and Japan.

The state department panicked, as did foreign and treasury. State told
Clinton the blunt truth that neither Japan or Germany had the stomachs
or constitutions for serious wog-killing whereas the UK and France had
long traditions of not only killing stroppy wogs, but doing so with
efficient relish. State eventually persuaded Clinton that the US could
not afford to lose the support of the UK and France in the inevitable
eruptions in the long-festering conflict between democracy and
Mohammedanism. In terms of standing armies, France and the UK were the
big hitters of Europe which were certain to be needed in future. Clinton
eventually relented.

Treasury breathed again and quietly buried their plans to make massive
reductions in the British Armed forces. The old guard in treasury got
their way. They had always maintained that the only way for the UK to
finance a big hitting military force without taxation levels that could
lead to internal instability was to slash the UK's internal policing
force. Within a decade the sheer level of the cuts was astounding.

Court police -- thousands of court bailiffs and clerks to justices staff
sacked. Fine an Englishman and he'll pay-up was treasury belief,
especially if backed up by aggressively worded threats. Internal
policing of society using court staff was not required. If required,
then there was always the private sector.

NB: The incredible short-sightedness of this policy struck home
in the closing years of the Major administration when treasury,
always keen to come up with cheap methods of increasing revenue,
hit upon the bright wheeze of gearing fines to peoples income.
They sponsored a criminal justice bill with that in mind.

To work the system had to depend on the honesty of criminals
concerning their income because the courts no longer had the
staff to check the statements of felons. When this was pointed
out to treasury they took the view that most citizens were
honest in what they told the courts and that there was no need
to even consider a return to old system. Naturally the whole
cock-eyed system fell apart once people spotted the glaring
hole. In my case, by careful selection of a time-slice to
determine my income, the wonderful treasury formula meant that a
speeding fine cost me a mere GBP3! A retired teacher of my
acquaintance had to stump up GBP2! 'Surely they'll check!' she
protested. 'I'm sure they won't,' I retorted.

All over the country court revenues fell to zilt.

About 5000 roadside vehicle inspectors sacked. Most haulage operators
were trustworthy, thought treasury, therefore internal policing of this
aspect of society was hardly required.

Thousands of EU-required abattoir veterinary inspectors sacked by the
simple expedient of leaning on DEFRA and getting abattoirs shut. Farmers
were upright citizens who were unlikely to take advantage of an
unpoliced system. Ho. Ho. That policy led to DEFRA being so short
staffed that they could no longer administer a foot and mouth crisis as
happened in 2000 and, as a result, a panicking government had to call in
the army to provide the management skills that DEFRA no longer had. That
particular F&M debacle cost around a staggering GBP89 billion.

About 5000 VAT inspectors and excise officers sacked -- a figure that
was further increased when Customs and Excise and Inland Revenue were
merged. After all, most registered VAT traders and travellers were
upright, honest citizens, therefore such a high level of internal
policing was hardly required. Likewise thousands of tax inspectors were
given the heave-ho. It's all self-assessment now, innit? Another name
for self-policing.

NB: The consequences of this particular piece of vandalism rumble on:
a recent issue of Private Eye (16th August 2006) points out the
disastrous consequences of a further sacking of some 200 tax evasion
investigators. Getting rid of these specialists saved about GBP20
million per annum. Lost revenue as a result was around GBP100 million.

Offices, shops, factory inspectors sacked. Very few shops had to be
closed down as a result of inspections therefore the owners of offices,
shops and railway premises were fine, upstanding, law-abiding citizens
who scrupulous observed the provisions of the OSRP Act therefore
policing them and their premises was not required.

Local authorities have been subjected to ludicrous pressures to carry
out massive cuts in their police forces. Police stations closed, cell
blocks closed. The cuts have now reached the point where many police
forces, such as Hull, have decided to virtually pull out of street
policing altogether. Treasury's plans to axe another 50,000 police
officers by merging police forces have been stalled. A temporary
set-back for them.

Hardly any police forces have been able to retain their fraud squads.
There's no need for them -- most people are honest, aren't they? And
those suspected of running major swindles can be dealt by Serious Fraud.

South West Trains and other franchise holders have had to give up
prosecuting many fare-dodgers because treasury pushed for a scale of
charges for calling in transport police -- 'incident attendance fees'.
It's cheaper for revenue protection employees to merely issue a warning
and to let the miscreants go. That crazy situation has gotten so bad
that when there's a major security alert at airports that results in
flight cancellations, BAA, BA, the transport police all end up suing
each other over increased costs or lost revenue.

Scales of charges for services have created a ludicrous system in which
one service, which is part of the infra-structure of the country, ends
up making another service pay for an essential service.

To quote one bizarrely example: the soon to be sold forensic service
were required to start operating at a profit. Treasury imposed a scale
of forensic charges on police forces: so much to examine and report on a
shoe; so much for a pair of knickers.

God knows how many immigration officers have been sacked. Home have been
so harried into getting rid of many prison admin staff that prison
calendars are no longer properly maintained and, as a result, prisons no
longer know exactly who to expect or when to release them! The system is
not merely on the brink of collapse, it has collapsed.

HM Customs and Excise Intelligence Unit BR17 (at Concorde 2000, South
Terminal Gatwick), a unit that played a vital role in stemming drugs
coming in the country, has virtually ceased to exist. There're two
blokes on duty now 9 to 5 Monday to Friday. Sadly this manning level is
fairly typical of all UK ports now.

When New Labour came to power in 1997 they immediately locked horns with
old guard treasury. Treasury simply tossed their head and sent the
grammar school oinks of New labour sprawling in the dust. One of New
Labour's early wheezes was 'Rip Off Britain' (anyone remember it?) -- a
plan to expose some of the commercial rackets. Labour planned to stamp
on the toes of many companies that were treasury's source of valuable
directorships and emoluments. The idea was sat on -- firmly.

SIR HUMPHREY: Treasury will warmly welcome the idea,
prime minister.

JIM HACKER: (Worriedly) What does that mean?

SIR HUMPF: They will say that it's a bold and courageous
initiative. That it needs careful looking at
from all angles--

JIM HACKER: (resigned) Meaning they'll kill it.

SIR HUMPF: And that a full and frank review report is
needed to consider all the ramifications.

JIM HACKER: How long will that take?

SIR HUMPF: About two years.

JIM HACKER: (despondently) They'll kill it.

SIR HUMPF: Stone dead, prime minister.

Although written many years earlier, the above is exactly what happened
when Ken Livingston appointed a high-flying American, Bob Kilney, to
become chairman of London Regional Transport. Kilney had transformed the
New York subway from a creaky, rundown service to a sleek, modern mass
transport system that offered cheap fares. He wanted to do the same for
the London underground. His plan was simple: to raise the necessary
GBP10 billion needed by an undated bond issue. Because the dosh
would never be repaid, the percentage yield for such an issue could be
fixed at an attractive ten percent. Pension funds, looking for such a
yield in perpetuity, would be certain to climb aboard as they had done
in New York.

Never mind that it was a sound idea that had worked and would've kept
ownership of the tube in public hands -- a plan that No 10 favoured --
treasury saw a bond issue hoovering up GBP10 billion as a direct threat
to their gilt market. With the connivance of Stephen Byers, treasury put
in place a hideously complicated scheme for multiple ownership of the
tube with responsibilities divided between three separate companies.

On a BBC TV programme Bob Kilney said that he couldn't understand why
his attempts to do something positive about the transport system of one
of the world's largest cities met with such implacable hostility from
treasury. Several times he had requested a meeting with Gordon Brown and
the requests had always been turned down. Bob Kilney never did
understand the fear that he had inspired in treasury. ('For God's sake,
my office is only two miles from Gordon Brown's office!'). He was tough
fighter. Thankfully for treasury, much of that fight was kicked out of
him by the death of his wife and two children in a car accident.

(To be continued if I can be bothered)
--
James Follett. Novelist (Callsign G1LXP)
http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk and http://www.marjacq.com