Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

Dear everyone,

I would like to by a widescreen LCD television set but am unsure what I
would need. I wish to achieve the following:


* Connect an Echostar analogue receiver through SCART into the TV for
the FTA analogue channels on 5W.

* Connect a Sky branded set-top box for Sky on ASTRA

* Connect an FTA digital receiver (motorised dish)

* Connect to our cable TV network (usually connect through a DVB style
cable, but I don't know what it is, yet)

* NTSC/PAL and SECAM playback (This is the easiest bit).

Some additional questions:

I would like to ensure that the Sky channels sound and audio remain
synchronised. I have heard that some television sets might have
problems. Any truth in this?

Finally, lots of British sold TVs include a DVB-T tuner. Since I won't
have Freeview access this is useless for me. What I would like to know
is are there TVs that include DVB-S and DVB-C tuners, and how would this
effect HD-Ready TVs ; Are there any TVs with HD tuners/receivers
available, or would this equate to DVB-S?

Any help on this subject would be greatly appricated. I have spent
hours searching. No site can tell me what the connection between DVB-S
and HD Ready is, if there is one, and how the technologies relate to
each other. Even the Sky web site won't tell me how to connect a Sky
set-top box to the television set and which connecters are needed to do
it. It seems that people instinctivly 'know' ;) However, I don't and
am somewhat lost.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year,
Zing.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

Finally, lots of British sold TVs include a DVB-T tuner. Since I won't
have Freeview access this is useless for me. What I would like to know is
are there TVs that include DVB-S and DVB-C tuners, and how would this
effect HD-Ready TVs ; Are there any TVs with HD tuners/receivers
available, or would this equate to DVB-S?

Zing.

In the UK Free to view sat has not taken off. Most people who use Sat do so
via a SKY STB.

So it doesn't make economic sense to produce DVB-S sets.

Most manufacturers have many sets in any particular range. So you can save
money getting the one with an analogue tuner only and still get the same
picture technology as the rest of the range.

Basically you shouldn't ignore "economy of scale". It would cost them more
to produce a minority product with less functions.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

Would this tele answer my question? I know that it has a DVB-T instead
of a DVB-S, but it seems unlikely that I would find one as you have noted.

Philips 32" 32PF5531 Freeview HD Ready Widescreen LCD TV
http://play.com/Electronics/Electron...archtype=genre

The full specification as the same as ones in the above URL:

# High definition LCD WXGA display, resolution 1366 x 768p
# Integrated Digital Tuner for DVB-T reception
# HD ready for the highest quality display of HDTV signals
# Digital Crystal Clear provides vivid cinema-like images
# Dynamic contrast enhancer delivering rich black details
# Superb sound reproduction
# Virtual Dolby Surround for a cinema-like audio experience
# Slim, stylish design to complement your interior
# Compact design
# Watch analog TV while recording a digital program
# HDMI for full digital High Definition connection
# Technical Specifications:
# Aspect ratio: 16:9
# Brightness: 500 cd/m
# Contrast ratio (typical): 800:1
# Diagonal screen size: 32 inch / 80 cm
# Picture enhancement: Digital Crystal Clear, Contrast plus, Progressive
scan, 3D combfilter, 3/2 - 2/2 motion pull down, Digital noise
reduction, Jagged line suppression, Pulse Killer Chip, Active Control,
Colour Temperature
# Screen enhancement: Anti reflection coated screen
# Panel resolution: 1366 x 768p
# Response time (typical): 8 ms
# Viewing angle: 176º (H) / 176º (V)
# Dynamic screen contrast: 1600:1
# Display screen type: LCD WXGA Active Matrix TFT
# Sound
# Sound enhancement: Dynamic bass enhancement
# Sound system: Virtual dolby surround, Stereo
# Output power (RMS): 2 x 15 W
# Equaliser: 5-bands
# Convenience:
# Ease of installation: Auto programme naming, Automatic Channel Install
(ACI), Automatic Tuning System (ATS), Auto store, Fine tuning, Plug &
Play, Program name, Sorting
# Ease of Use: Auto volume leveller (AVL), Program list, Smart picture
control, Smart sound control, Side Control, Watch analogue/record
digital, Easy toggle Dig/Analogue modes
# Remote control type: RC4343/01
# Teletext enhancements: Program information line
# Picture in Pictu Picture in graphics, Twin page text
# Remote control: DVD, TV, Aux
# Screen format adjustments: 4:3, Movie expand 14:9, Movie expand 16:9,
Subtitle Zoom, Super Zoom, Widescreen
# Clock: Sleep timer, Wake up clock
# Teletext: Smart Text
# Tuner bands: Hyper band, S channel, UHF, VHF
# TV system: PAL B/G, PAL D/K, SECAM B/G, SECAM D/K, SECAM L/L'
# Video playback: NTSC, PAL, SECAM
# Aerial input: 75 ohm coaxial (IEC75)
# Tuner display: PLL
# Number of preset channels: 100
# DVB: DVB Terrestrial
# Connectivity:
# Ext 1 Scart: Audio L/R, CVBS in/out, RGB
# Ext 2 Scart: CVBS in/out, S video in, Audio L/R, RGB out
# Other connections: Common Interface, S/PDIF out (coaxial)
# Front / Side connections: CVBS in, Headphone out, S video in, Audio L/R in
# Ext 5: HDMI
# Ext 4: YPbPr
# Ext 6: HDMI
# Number of scarts: 2
# Computer formats
# Resolution Refresh rate: 640 x 480 60, 67, 72, 75Hz - 800 x 600 56,
60, 72, 75Hz - 1024 x 768 60, 70, 75Hz - 720 x 400 70Hz
# Video formats
# Resolution Refresh rate: 640 x 480i 1Fh - 640 x 480p 2Fh - 720 x 576i
1Fh - 720 x 576p 2Fh - 1280 x 720p 3Fh - 1920 x 1080i 2Fh


John Russell wrote:
Finally, lots of British sold TVs include a DVB-T tuner. Since I won't
have Freeview access this is useless for me. What I would like to know is
are there TVs that include DVB-S and DVB-C tuners, and how would this
effect HD-Ready TVs ; Are there any TVs with HD tuners/receivers
available, or would this equate to DVB-S?

Zing.

In the UK Free to view sat has not taken off. Most people who use Sat do so
via a SKY STB.

So it doesn't make economic sense to produce DVB-S sets.

Most manufacturers have many sets in any particular range. So you can save
money getting the one with an analogue tuner only and still get the same
picture technology as the rest of the range.

Basically you shouldn't ignore "economy of scale". It would cost them more
to produce a minority product with less functions.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

"zii kell" wrote in message
...
Would this tele answer my question? I know that it has a DVB-T instead of
a DVB-S, but it seems unlikely that I would find one as you have noted.

Philips 32" 32PF5531 Freeview HD Ready Widescreen LCD TV
http://play.com/Electronics/Electron...archtype=genre


I wouldn't like to recommend anything I haven't used.

I would say this. The majority of the time you will be watching SD, not HD.
Scaling technology used to generate HD from SD varies greatly. Some users
find that SD is almost unwatchable on their HD set, implying this is an
absolute for everyone. It isn't. But it's a criticism that sticks.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

It sounds odd that companies would make SD unwatchable on an HD set when
most medium is available in SD for the moment. When people claim
its unwatchable, have they got used to watching HD and now find SD is
not so nice on the eyes, or have they really got something to complain
about?

John Russell wrote:
"zii kell" wrote in message
...
Would this tele answer my question? I know that it has a DVB-T instead of
a DVB-S, but it seems unlikely that I would find one as you have noted.

Philips 32" 32PF5531 Freeview HD Ready Widescreen LCD TV
http://play.com/Electronics/Electron...archtype=genre


I wouldn't like to recommend anything I haven't used.

I would say this. The majority of the time you will be watching SD, not HD.
Scaling technology used to generate HD from SD varies greatly. Some users
find that SD is almost unwatchable on their HD set, implying this is an
absolute for everyone. It isn't. But it's a criticism that sticks.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

I have just read an article about this,
http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=5, and the whole subject is
rather depressing. All the apartments here in this country have Sky TV
analouge and digital signals (I think these are SD) pushed through the
cable network. Also, I want to watch the SECAM analouge pictures
broadcast from the satellite on 5W.

I suspect that all of these will look terrible on an HD TV. Is it
possible to buy a widescreen LCD TV that support SCART, NTSC/SECAM/PAL
and only SD scaling formats? Would anyone have any knowledge about this?

zii kell wrote:
It sounds odd that companies would make SD unwatchable on an HD set when
most medium is available in SD for the moment. When people claim its
unwatchable, have they got used to watching HD and now find SD is not so
nice on the eyes, or have they really got something to complain about?

John Russell wrote:
"zii kell" wrote in message
...
Would this tele answer my question? I know that it has a DVB-T
instead of a DVB-S, but it seems unlikely that I would find one as
you have noted.

Philips 32" 32PF5531 Freeview HD Ready Widescreen LCD TV
http://play.com/Electronics/Electron...archtype=genre



I wouldn't like to recommend anything I haven't used.

I would say this. The majority of the time you will be watching SD,
not HD. Scaling technology used to generate HD from SD varies greatly.
Some users find that SD is almost unwatchable on their HD set,
implying this is an absolute for everyone. It isn't. But it's a
criticism that sticks.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

"zii kell" wrote in message
...
It sounds odd that companies would make SD unwatchable on an HD set when
most medium is available in SD for the moment. When people claim its
unwatchable, have they got used to watching HD and now find SD is not so
nice on the eyes, or have they really got something to complain about?

John Russell wrote:
"zii kell" wrote in message
...
Would this tele answer my question? I know that it has a DVB-T instead
of a DVB-S, but it seems unlikely that I would find one as you have
noted.

Philips 32" 32PF5531 Freeview HD Ready Widescreen LCD TV
http://play.com/Electronics/Electron...archtype=genre


I wouldn't like to recommend anything I haven't used.

I would say this. The majority of the time you will be watching SD, not
HD. Scaling technology used to generate HD from SD varies greatly. Some
users find that SD is almost unwatchable on their HD set, implying this
is an absolute for everyone. It isn't. But it's a criticism that sticks.

As is I posted, scaling varies. I have a panasonic DVD Recorder which can
output HD via HDMI. It still records and plays SD. It's HD output is
ghastly, but when connected using 576i, via analog or HDMI, then my Regza
produces a fantastic scaled up image.

It should be remembered that a HD set by it's very nature has to display
fine detail. Unfortunately "detail" and "noise" are almost
indistinguishable. So a HD set can produce fantasic images from quality
broadcasts, and that includes SD if scaled well, but shows crap broadcasts
for what they are. A CRT is more forgiving becuase it isn't capable of
displaying detail/noise to the same extent.

With so few HD channels it's not surprising that these are "quality"
broadcasts made to high standards. If everything was HD we would then get a
lot of crap looking HD channels as well. Then those critiscing HD sets for
making SD look crap would realise the problem is that SD DVB is crap most of
the time, not the TV.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

"zii kell" wrote in message
...
I have just read an article about this,
http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=5, and the whole subject is
rather depressing.

I'm sorry but this is exactly what I was refering too when I said those with
TV's which scale badly think everyone has the problem. To properly scale you
also need to have filters to address the issue in the blog you found.

The problem of scaling is not new. It must 20 years or more ago that people
first started to use Display Projectors for video. They needed the video
scaling to match, and it was critisced becuase intially it was far to crude,
such as line doubling.

Then a company which in the 1970's had proposed the idea of HD NTSC by the
use of clever image processing at the TV end started to apply their idea to
video DSP's. Soon Projectors started to boast of having that companies chips
in them, the companie being Feroudja. Thier chips are now appearing in DVD
players, but many TV's have them as well.

That's why you need to see HD TV's in action using SD, not just piped HD as
many stores do.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

"zii kell" wrote in message
...
I have just read an article about this,
http://www.highdefinitionblog.com/?page_id=5, and the whole subject is
rather depressing. All the apartments here in this country have Sky TV
[snip]

Which country?

Roger R

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

"zii kell" wrote in message
...

Dear everyone,

I would like to by a widescreen LCD television set but am unsure what I
would need. I wish to achieve the following:


* Connect an Echostar analogue receiver through SCART into the TV for
the FTA analogue channels on 5W.

* Connect a Sky branded set-top box for Sky on ASTRA

* Connect an FTA digital receiver (motorised dish)

* Connect to our cable TV network (usually connect through a DVB style
cable, but I don't know what it is, yet)

* NTSC/PAL and SECAM playback (This is the easiest bit).

AIUI if you get a 2nd hand Echostar AD3600 from ebay this will convert the
French analogue SECAM trasnmissions to PAL. There are not so many SECAM TVs on
the UK market, though if you want one of these Philips is a brand to consider.

Most of the French channels are now available in digital. TF1 is the main
exception but there have been posts in alt.satellite.tv.europe suggesting that
there will be a digital version of this.

You only need a Sky digibox if you want the encrypted channels. All the BBC and
ITV channels are FTA.




Some additional questions:

I would like to ensure that the Sky channels sound and audio remain
synchronised. I have heard that some television sets might have
problems. Any truth in this?

Finally, lots of British sold TVs include a DVB-T tuner. Since I won't
have Freeview access this is useless for me. What I would like to know
is are there TVs that include DVB-S and DVB-C tuners, and how would this
effect HD-Ready TVs ; Are there any TVs with HD tuners/receivers
available, or would this equate to DVB-S?

I've not seen a TV with a satellite or cable Tuner. Many TVs have HD capability
if you call 720 lines HD, I would think that most of these are being used to
watch SD. I doubt that you can buy a UK TV with an HD terrestrial tuner. At the
moment there are only a couple to test HD transmissions for the London area, for
which a few people have the specialised STB's needed.


Any help on this subject would be greatly appricated. I have spent
hours searching. No site can tell me what the connection between DVB-S
and HD Ready is, if there is one, and how the technologies relate to
each other. Even the Sky web site won't tell me how to connect a Sky
set-top box to the television set and which connecters are needed to do
it. It seems that people instinctivly 'know' ;) However, I don't and
am somewhat lost.

For SD the preferably method is to use RGB via a Scart lead


Merry Christmas and a happy New Year,
Zing.

I prefer the circus programmes on French TV on New yeas's eve.

--

Michael Chare

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

AIUI if you get a 2nd hand Echostar AD3600 from ebay this will convert the
French analogue SECAM trasnmissions to PAL. There are not so many SECAM TVs on
the UK market, though if you want one of these Philips is a brand to consider.

Yes they do have a build in SECAM to RGB decoder too;)

Most of the French channels are now available in digital. TF1 is the main
exception but there have been posts in alt.satellite.tv.europe suggesting that
there will be a digital version of this.

Any idea when as I haven't seen any dates?....

You only need a Sky digibox if you want the encrypted channels. All the BBC and
ITV channels are FTA.

With the exception of Channels 4 and 5 where you will need to pay for a
one off viewing card....
--
Tony Sayer

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

Thank-you all for your replies. I think that I might buy a Philips LCD
TV. It has PAL, SECAM and video playback: NTSC, PAL, SECAM.

However, the connector list is,
* Ext 1 Scart : Audio L/R, CVBS in/out, RGB
* Ext 2 Scart : Audio L/R, CVBS in/out, S video in, RGB out
* Other connections: Common Interface, S/PDIF out (coaxial), Antenna IEC75
* Front / Side connections: CVBS in, Headphone out, S-Video in, Audio L/R in
* Ext 6: HDMI
* Ext 5: HDMI
* Ext 4: YPbPr Number of scarts: 2

This looks like there is only one SCART RBG in on Ext 1. Ext2 only
lists an RBG out.

If this is the case, then could I use any of the automatic SCART
switchers listed on Maplin?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtempla...T%20SW ITCHER



tony sayer wrote:
AIUI if you get a 2nd hand Echostar AD3600 from ebay this will convert the
French analogue SECAM trasnmissions to PAL. There are not so many SECAM TVs on
the UK market, though if you want one of these Philips is a brand to consider.

Yes they do have a build in SECAM to RGB decoder too;)
Most of the French channels are now available in digital. TF1 is the main
exception but there have been posts in alt.satellite.tv.europe suggesting that
there will be a digital version of this.

Any idea when as I haven't seen any dates?....
You only need a Sky digibox if you want the encrypted channels. All the BBC and
ITV channels are FTA.

With the exception of Channels 4 and 5 where you will need to pay for a
one off viewing card....

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

"zii kell" wrote in message
...
Thank-you all for your replies. I think that I might buy a Philips LCD
TV. It has PAL, SECAM and video playback: NTSC, PAL, SECAM.

However, the connector list is,
* Ext 1 Scart : Audio L/R, CVBS in/out, RGB
* Ext 2 Scart : Audio L/R, CVBS in/out, S video in, RGB out
* Other connections: Common Interface, S/PDIF out (coaxial), Antenna IEC75
* Front / Side connections: CVBS in, Headphone out, S-Video in, Audio L/R
in
* Ext 6: HDMI
* Ext 5: HDMI
* Ext 4: YPbPr Number of scarts: 2

This looks like there is only one SCART RBG in on Ext 1. Ext2 only lists
an RBG out.

If this is the case, then could I use any of the automatic SCART switchers
listed on Maplin?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtempla...T%20SW ITCHER

Lot's of kit supports RGB passthrough to help solve this problem.

For recording purposes it can be inconvenient to use the TV is a huge
switching hub. For example, decent DVD Recorders will allow you to route the
RGB from your Sat box via the DVd Recorder. That way you can record the
decent RGB output without involving the TV, leaving you watching the Tv's
own Freeview tuner whilst doing so.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

zii kell wrote:
It sounds odd that companies would make SD unwatchable on an HD set when
most medium is available in SD for the moment. When people claim
its unwatchable, have they got used to watching HD and now find SD is
not so nice on the eyes, or have they really got something to complain
about?

John Russell wrote:
"zii kell" wrote in message
...
Would this tele answer my question? I know that it has a DVB-T instead of
a DVB-S, but it seems unlikely that I would find one as you have noted.

Philips 32" 32PF5531 Freeview HD Ready Widescreen LCD TV
http://play.com/Electronics/Electron...archtype=genre


I wouldn't like to recommend anything I haven't used.

I would say this. The majority of the time you will be watching SD, not HD.
Scaling technology used to generate HD from SD varies greatly. Some users
find that SD is almost unwatchable on their HD set, implying this is an
absolute for everyone. It isn't. But it's a criticism that sticks.

Television sets - DVB/HD Ready/lots of question
 

Michael Chare wrote:

I've not seen a TV with a satellite or cable Tuner.

Probably not going to help the OP much, unless he is willing to take his
chances doing some online shopping from abroad, but there _are_ some
DVB-C tv sets on the Finnish market - so they do exist, at least.

A quick glance at the websites of the local consumer electronics chains
reveals that at least the following models are available with a DVB-C
tuner:

Sony KDL-32D2810
Sony KDL-32S2800
Sony KDL-40D2600
Sony KDL-40D3500
Sony KDL-40D3660
Sony KDL-40S3000
Sony KDL-40W3000
Sony KDL-46D3500
Samsung LE-23R86BCX
Samsung LE-26S86 Jasmine
Samsung LE-32R86BCX/FID
Samsung LE-32S86BCX
Samsung LE-37M86BCX
Samsung LE-37M86
Samsung LE-40N87
Samsung LE-40M86BCX
Samsung LE-40R86BCX
Samsung LE-46M86BCX
...

(Yes, it appears to be a party for only two brands at the moment...)

The model numbers in the above list cannot be trusted blindly. The
manufacturers will usually customise their models for different markets,
and despite of doing this, they may still use the same model designation
for all the local variants - the differences being denoted with some
additional funny numbers or letters tacked onto the "main" model
designation... (or with some additional submodel designation, somewhere
on the back of the set.) But those kind of detailed, "full" model
designations are not necessarily printed on the ads or mentioned on the
websites.

Many (all?) of these would appear to have _both_ a DVB-C and a DVB-T
tuner... I think. (Their sister models on some other markets probably
have dual DVB-T tuners.)

Since the OP was asking about HD as well, it should be noted that all
these are "HD Ready" or "Full HD" sets but their built-in DVB
tuners/decoders cannot decode HD channels - you'd need an external box
for that.

* * *

The model designations in the above list were gathered primarily from
these websites:

http://www.mustaporssi.fi/Katalogi

http://www.expert.fi/index.php?mid=308

http://tekniset.fi/Valikoima3.asp?Tu...ryhma_id=13 0

http://tekniset.fi/Valikoima3.asp?Tu...ryhma_id=13 2

http://tekniset.fi/Valikoima3.asp?Tu...ryhma_id=13 3

(A quick Finnish lesson:

"kaapeli" = cable
"antenni" = aerial
"viritin" = tuner
"verkko" = network

"kaapeliverkkoon" = for cable (tv) network
"antenniverkkoon" = for terrestrial network(/reception)
"kaapeliverkon viritin" = tuner for cable (tv) network
"antenniverkon viritin" = tuner for terrestrial network(/reception)
)

--
znark