Why no HDTV DVD player/media?
 

I would think movie provided on HDTV would be the biggest shot in the arm
that industry could do.

Why dont you think there are DVDs or other media recording in HDTV format
and the players to play them?

any thoughts?

jakes452 wrote:

I would think movie provided on HDTV would be the biggest shot in the arm
that industry could do.

Why? DVD hasn't saturated the market yet. The studios are making money,
hand over fist, with DVD. Why should they kill the goose that is laying
golden eggs all over the place?

Why dont you think there are DVDs or other media recording in HDTV format
and the players to play them?

Because the hardware platform was decided only a short time ago. The
codec and copy protection wars haven't been fought, yet.

Matthew

--
http://www.mlmartin.com/bbq/

Thermodynamics For Dummies: You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't get out of the game.

"jakes452" wrote in :

I would think movie provided on HDTV would be the biggest shot in the
arm
that industry could do.

Why dont you think there are DVDs or other media recording in HDTV
format
and the players to play them?

any thoughts?


S-VHS exists now for those that want HDTV content now. Very pricy.
Limited home consumer market.

The DVD makers are working on an a format for HDTV DVD. Too bad for all
of us it will take them a while to agree and get it to market. Good for
all of us that they will (hopefully) have an agreed apon format.

Chances are HDTV Digital Video Records (DVR) will be what we see soon.
Tivo is working on one. Due out in a few months. Damn, not for this xmas.

Also watch for PC based HDTV DVR solutions. Then we can all price our own
DS3 Internet connections so we can HDTV P2P share shows. Just the ones
that are not copyrighted, of course. And battlefield earth. Johnny should
pay us to watch that dog.

"jakes452" wrote in message
...
I would think movie provided on HDTV would be the biggest shot in the arm
that industry could do.

Why dont you think there are DVDs or other media recording in HDTV format
and the players to play them?

any thoughts?

1. The content intermediaries (the studios) are afraid of HD digital
recordings because they are so good that copies could be "perfect" - thus
they OPPOSE HD-DVD unless they have 100% control of the content. This is why
they opposed radio, tried to stop non-studio owned movie theaters, opposed
TV, fought the tape recorder, killed the DAT, tried to kill the CD-R. In
other words, the are self-absorbed idiot toll booth operators who make their
money by standing betweent the creative content makers and the consumers,
taking as much as they can from both ends while keeping them apart to
preserve their own power.

2. 100% control of the content means:
a. that an impossibly high standard of encryption is needed
b. that the encryption will be VERY intrusive and markedly reduce
consumer rights such as fair use and privacy.
c. that agreement between everyone is needed
d. that the media companies probably will simply go slow out of
ignorance, fear and mostly greed.

3. There are a number of very good competing compression algorithms and
laser/optic/media designs... making consensus slow.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:35:13 GMT, Bulk Daddy
wrote:


S-VHS exists now for those that want HDTV content now.

I'm sure you mean D-VHS...

"jakes452" wrote in message ...
I would think movie provided on HDTV would be the biggest shot in the arm
that industry could do.

Why dont you think there are DVDs or other media recording in HDTV format
and the players to play them?

any thoughts?

Sure, I don't want to be rude but you could check the news. There has
been news about this topic and you can read some of it here on this
newsgroup. There are at least three groups (with some overlap) vying
for their standard to be adopted to deliver HD content on a DVD size
disc. I believe two of them use lasers that operate at a higher
frequency (blue lasers) and a third uses current lasers. All three
involve considerably more storage space than current DVD's but each
uses a different compression technique. One has been approved
(whatever that means) and may be shipping product by next Christmas.
With current low penetration of HD sets it is a fairly risky market to
approach. Also, I think it would be fair to say that movie studios are
doing great right now with DVD's which they will have the opportunity
to sell once again in a few years in HD format (like K says in "Men in
Black", time to buy the White album again).

I know I'd buy some but I still suspect it is a risky market, like the
proposed successors to the CD for audio. The industry will tighten up
the restrictions (at least initially) so that while videophiles are
assembling their video on demand libraries on terabyte servers of
ripped DVD's, they will see one or more formats that are tied to
fallible and comparably clumsy discs. Given the choice between
rippable DVD's that can be on fault tolerant RAID drives and HD-DVD
that is clearly better but possibly fragile, which do you purchase? I
have too many laserdiscs that are slowly deteriorating. If the
laserdiscs were as good as when I bought them (like they promised) I
might feel different. Allow me to backup what I purchase and I might
be more interested in future developments.

They haven't even released Star Wars on DVD yet.... I want my Star Wars
DVD, dammit! All I have is a VHS recording.

DVD is nowhere near being exhausted. Also, if they release HD-DVD now, it
might confuse people. They might stop buying regular DVD's altogether and
save their money, fearing obselence of current DVD players, but they
wouldn't buy HD-DVD either. At the same time, many people might not easily
appreciate the difference between HD-DVD and DVD, so you might be looking at
a failure for HD-DVD too if you release it too soon. Look at DVD-Audio or
SACD, except for audiophiles and high end home theater, nobody is interested
in that medium, because CD and MP3 better suit what most people want.

Laserdiscs scratched easily, for some reason. I suspect in many cases
the players did it themselves. We had a copy of "The Deceivers" and it got
a 5 inch scratch in it that I was never able to really repair- I can only
assume it got a scratch inside the player or during a move (seems less
likely to me). Also the players wore out quickly, the mechanism for
spinning the disk took alot of abuse from those heavy disks. We never had a
huge laserdisc collection and did not often play them, but the player only
lasted about 7 years (and then nobody was selling a replacement).

DVD seems fairly robust. I've never found a DVD that wouldn't play
altogether, and I've only had to fix a scratch on a DVD once. I did have
problems with the remastered Terminator DVD- on the old Samsung player it
would stutter and you had to skip to the end of the chapter. On the new
Samsung progressive scan player, it pauses for about half a second, them
resumed flawlessly- I suspect a scratch but can't find it on casual
examination.

Now compare this to VHS... old VHS tapes generally weren't that great for
durability. Sure, they seldom broke under gorilla style mishandling, but
they also wore down as part of normal operation, something you don't see
with DVD. They also faded with use, especially older EP recordings. I've
seen a few articles about rental stores being unhappy with the "reduced"
durability of DVD as compared to VHS, to which I say... "stop using them as
coasters!"

It will be interesting to see if HD-DVD is as durable as DVD. DVD is
fairly tolerant of minor scuffs and has error correction. I have played
DVD-ROM based games on my PS2 that had scratches with no problems. If
HD-DVD is too finicky though and minor fingerprints, etc., throw off the
tracking, that won't be a good sign.

I am not so sure that the majority of movies available for transfer to H-DVD
would be visibly improved over what is available on DVD today at 480p.
Particularly on smaller screened HDTV's, say those in the 48" and under
category. Star Wars II Clones might be an exception but that was shot using
digital cameras. Are there HD copies of movies available to consumers on
any media that could be used to compare with a high quality standard DVD?
How would films like "Blade Runner" or "Dark City" noticeably benefit from
an H-DVD transfer vs standard DVD?

Ed

"Ed T" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I am not so sure that the majority of movies available for transfer to
H-DVD
would be visibly improved over what is available on DVD today at 480p.
Particularly on smaller screened HDTV's, say those in the 48" and under
category.

For smaller screen HDTV's, the difference will be slight. It will also
depend on the seating arangements relative to the TV. Folks who sit closer
to the TV will notice it more, and since HDTV's have very small scanlines or
pixels, some people will tend to sit very close to the screen and will
notice flaws more.

Star Wars II Clones might be an exception but that was shot using
digital cameras.

Woah... wait a minute. Film is capable of resolving a surprisingly high
level of detail. In fact, a film shot on digital camera might have less
detail than one shot on film.

Having said that, film can have a very soft look compared to high
definition video. Most film cameras have a more limited focus, too. Soft
focus will tend to reduce resolution.

One of the reasons so many of the shows on network TV are in HDTV, is
because they are working with film in the production, then transferring it
to telecine. Creating the transfer to 1080i is just part of the same
process as making the inevitable DVD version, or the broadcast version, for
that matter. Some shows don't work with film, though, but use video (such
as talk shows, game shows, news, etc.) and HD video cameras require more
investment- investment that the producers might not think worthwhile.

Are there HD copies of movies available to consumers on
any media that could be used to compare with a high quality standard DVD?
How would films like "Blade Runner" or "Dark City" noticeably benefit
from
an H-DVD transfer vs standard DVD?

There are a couple dozen DVHS movies out there that are high definition.
I have never watched one, though, in entirity (just seen a few demos). DVHS
has "laser disc" written all over it, figuratively speaking. It will appeal
to a certain high end niche, but most people are going to buy the DVD
version instead, even if they have a widescreen HDTV. The picture of D-VHS
does look nice, but any improvement is incremental over DVD, not at all like
going from VHS to DVD.

I'd rather see them optimize current DVD's for HDTV, for the time being.
That means using a sufficiently high bitrate to avoid the "MPEG look", but
also not overdoing noise reduction and edge enhancement, which tend to look
bad on larger displays.

And, as I said before... some movies aren't even out on DVD, or they have
very poor transfers (non anamorphic being the biggest flaw). I'd rather see
that first.