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HDTV in the UK
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HDTV in the UK
aa wrote:
Item updated today.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...guide_updated/ Thank you for this - very clear margaret |
HDTV in the UK
"aa" wrote in message . uk... Item updated today.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...guide_updated/ -- aa If it has been updated it does sound a little outdated. This years HD sets have much better SD scalers and when properly set up make good SD DVB broadcasts look fantastic. The problem is they also make bad DVB virtually unwatchable. I think anyone looking for a large screen (32) would be mad to go out and get a humungous SD CRT. Your are better off getting a HD Ready LCD/Plasmsa, even for SD. The good thing is that bad SD looks so bad the wife will watch Strictly come Dancing on the CRT in the bedroom, leaving you to watch the HD soccer in peace. |
HDTV in the UK
"aa" wrote in message
. uk... Item updated today.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...guide_updated/ -- So very few of the currently available so called HD ready TVs will display Sky's 1080i in native mode. I would argue that calling a TV that can only display up to 720 lines (without downgrading) HD is something of a con. -- Michael Chare |
HDTV in the UK
"Michael Chare" wrote in message ... "aa" wrote in message . uk... Item updated today.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...guide_updated/ -- So very few of the currently available so called HD ready TVs will display Sky's 1080i in native mode. I would argue that calling a TV that can only display up to 720 lines (without downgrading) HD is something of a con. 720 is progressive, with 1080i you have to consider the Kell factor. You can't just do a straight comparison between the two. Most of the British public are too stupid to realise, they think higher number = better. |
HDTV in the UK
"Virgils Ghost" wrote in message
... "Michael Chare" wrote in message ... "aa" wrote in message . uk... Item updated today.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...guide_updated/ -- So very few of the currently available so called HD ready TVs will display Sky's 1080i in native mode. I would argue that calling a TV that can only display up to 720 lines (without downgrading) HD is something of a con. 720 is progressive, with 1080i you have to consider the Kell factor. You can't just do a straight comparison between the two. Most of the British public are too stupid to realise, they think higher number = better. The 1080i v 720p issue is really a different point. My point was that not being not being able to display all the individual lines in a 1080i signal would be a disadvantage. -- Michael Chare |
HDTV in the UK
"Virgils Ghost" wrote in message ... "Michael Chare" wrote in message ... "aa" wrote in message . uk... Item updated today.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...guide_updated/ -- So very few of the currently available so called HD ready TVs will display Sky's 1080i in native mode. I would argue that calling a TV that can only display up to 720 lines (without downgrading) HD is something of a con. 720 is progressive, with 1080i you have to consider the Kell factor. You can't just do a straight comparison between the two. Most of the British public are too stupid You mean badly informed. I have many badly informed customers who are far from stupid. to realise, they think higher number = better. Bill |
HDTV in the UK
It seems the retailers are being very coy about this... they have lots of
720 panels to sell ;-) Look at the newspaper ads for Currys, Comet etc. and read the weasel words "for the highest picture quality in its class" (720 line class?) "capable of receiving the highest quality HD signal" (but not displaying it at native 1080 resolution). There are more 1080 panels around now... I've been trying to get a couple of large 1080 LCDs that will display pixel accurate 1920 x 1080i via the HDMI and VGA inputs. Many of the 1080 panels will NOT do 1080 via the VGA inputs - you have to comb the manual to find this out... Annoyingly some will take a 1920 x 1080i signal and overscan it a few percent - even thought the panel is 1920 x 1080... Sony Bravias do this and it destroys any fine text in the picture. Only way is to connect a PC and output 1920 x 1080 (I've made a test card ..tiff with a one pixel border) - can you see the one pixel border? I'm told (?) there is a Westinghouse and some Toshiba 1080 units that will do true pixel accurate 1920 x 1080 but have yet to see this demonstarted. I have been told by company droids that their sets will only to find they won't when you actually try it.... ;-) I'm trying to display hi-res GIS and satellite imaging on a couple of 42" or more displays... Sharp 52" and Sansungs are next ones to try... Guy Michael Chare wrote: "Virgils Ghost" wrote in message ... "Michael Chare" wrote in message ... "aa" wrote in message . uk... Item updated today.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...guide_updated/ -- So very few of the currently available so called HD ready TVs will display Sky's 1080i in native mode. I would argue that calling a TV that can only display up to 720 lines (without downgrading) HD is something of a con. 720 is progressive, with 1080i you have to consider the Kell factor. You can't just do a straight comparison between the two. Most of the British public are too stupid to realise, they think higher number = better. The 1080i v 720p issue is really a different point. My point was that not being not being able to display all the individual lines in a 1080i signal would be a disadvantage. |
HDTV in the UK
Bigguy wrote:
It seems the retailers are being very coy about this... they have lots of 720 panels to sell ;-) Look at the newspaper ads for Currys, Comet etc. and read the weasel words "for the highest picture quality in its class" (720 line class?) "capable of receiving the highest quality HD signal" (but not displaying it at native 1080 resolution). There are more 1080 panels around now... I've been trying to get a couple of large 1080 LCDs that will display pixel accurate 1920 x 1080i via the HDMI and VGA inputs. Many of the 1080 panels will NOT do 1080 via the VGA inputs - you have to comb the manual to find this out... Annoyingly some will take a 1920 x 1080i signal and overscan it a few percent - even thought the panel is 1920 x 1080... Sony Bravias do this and it destroys any fine text in the picture. Only way is to connect a PC and output 1920 x 1080 (I've made a test card .tiff with a one pixel border) - can you see the one pixel border? I'm told (?) there is a Westinghouse and some Toshiba 1080 units that will do true pixel accurate 1920 x 1080 but have yet to see this demonstarted. I have been told by company droids that their sets will only to find they won't when you actually try it.... ;-) I'm trying to display hi-res GIS and satellite imaging on a couple of 42" or more displays... Sharp 52" and Sansungs are next ones to try... Guy Another thing never mentioned in the advertising blurb, some panels even though they're 1920x1080 cannot display 1080p |
HDTV in the UK
It seems the retailers are being very coy about this... they have lots of 720 panels to sell ;-) Look at the newspaper ads for Currys, Comet etc. and read the weasel words "for the highest picture quality in its class" (720 line class?) "capable of receiving the highest quality HD signal" (but not displaying it at native 1080 resolution). There are more 1080 panels around now... I've been trying to get a couple of large 1080 LCDs that will display pixel accurate 1920 x 1080i via the HDMI and VGA inputs. Many of the 1080 panels will NOT do 1080 via the VGA inputs - you have to comb the manual to find this out... Annoyingly some will take a 1920 x 1080i signal and overscan it a few percent - even thought the panel is 1920 x 1080... Sony Bravias do this and it destroys any fine text in the picture. Only way is to connect a PC and output 1920 x 1080 (I've made a test card .tiff with a one pixel border) - can you see the one pixel border? I'm told (?) there is a Westinghouse and some Toshiba 1080 units that will do true pixel accurate 1920 x 1080 but have yet to see this demonstarted. I have been told by company droids that their sets will only to find they won't when you actually try it.... ;-) I'm trying to display hi-res GIS and satellite imaging on a couple of 42" or more displays... Sharp 52" and Sansungs are next ones to try... Guy Why not just try one of the new Sony 1080p sets? |
HDTV in the UK
Mike Henry wrote:
In , Mike Edwards wrote: Annoyingly some will take a 1920 x 1080i signal and overscan it a few percent - even thought the panel is 1920 x 1080... Sony Bravias do this and it destroys any fine text in the picture. [...] Why not just try one of the new Sony 1080p sets? Well (not that I'm about to buy an LCD TV of any kind), after reading the above I'm certainly not buying a Sony TV unless I have a guarantee that it doesn't overscan in any mode. AIUI, though I've not seen it for myself yet, the new Bravias have two modes. One is indeed a 3% overscan, the other is a 'perfect' match. I've got a feeling the factory ship mode is the former. -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
HDTV in the UK
Annoyingly some will take a 1920 x 1080i signal and overscan it a few percent - even thought the panel is 1920 x 1080... Sony Bravias do this and it destroys any fine text in the picture. [...] Why not just try one of the new Sony 1080p sets? Well (not that I'm about to buy an LCD TV of any kind), after reading the above I'm certainly not buying a Sony TV unless I have a guarantee that it doesn't overscan in any mode. AIUI, though I've not seen it for myself yet, the new Bravias have two modes. One is indeed a 3% overscan, the other is a 'perfect' match. I've got a feeling the factory ship mode is the former. Why would they do that? What is the supposed benefit of the overscan option? |
HDTV in the UK
In message , Mike
Edwards writes Annoyingly some will take a 1920 x 1080i signal and overscan it a few percent - even thought the panel is 1920 x 1080... Sony Bravias do this and it destroys any fine text in the picture. [...] Why not just try one of the new Sony 1080p sets? Well (not that I'm about to buy an LCD TV of any kind), after reading the above I'm certainly not buying a Sony TV unless I have a guarantee that it doesn't overscan in any mode. AIUI, though I've not seen it for myself yet, the new Bravias have two modes. One is indeed a 3% overscan, the other is a 'perfect' match. I've got a feeling the factory ship mode is the former. Why would they do that? What is the supposed benefit of the overscan option? I would imagine it's to remove all the crud from around the edge of the picture that you aren't supposed to see... although i don't know why they don't just use a black border to avoid spoiling the 1:1 pixel relationship. -- Chris |
HDTV in the UK
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:47:08 GMT, Chris
wrote: AIUI, though I've not seen it for myself yet, the new Bravias have two modes. One is indeed a 3% overscan, the other is a 'perfect' match. I've got a feeling the factory ship mode is the former. Why would they do that? What is the supposed benefit of the overscan option? I would imagine it's to remove all the crud from around the edge of the picture that you aren't supposed to see... although i don't know why they don't just use a black border to avoid spoiling the 1:1 pixel relationship. What "crud" should there be if the lines we are talking about are specified as active picture lines containing only picture information? There is already a no-go area of a video signal that is not intended to be displayed, and which the design and construction of a display device can be arranged not to display; it's called "blanking". Rod. |
HDTV in the UK
Roderick Stewart wrote:
What "crud" should there be if the lines we are talking about are specified as active picture lines containing only picture information? There is already a no-go area of a video signal that is not intended to be displayed, and which the design and construction of a display device can be arranged not to display; it's called "blanking". Indeed, though it's not unusual to see VITC that's 'slipped' down into active picture owing to poor set up of TBCs etc in an edit suite, and DVEs that still leave the 'other' input channel visible at the picture edges. -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
HDTV in the UK
Mark Carver wrote:
Roderick Stewart wrote: What "crud" should there be if the lines we are talking about are specified as active picture lines containing only picture information? There is already a no-go area of a video signal that is not intended to be displayed, and which the design and construction of a display device can be arranged not to display; it's called "blanking". Indeed, though it's not unusual to see VITC that's 'slipped' down into active picture owing to poor set up of TBCs etc in an edit suite, and DVEs that still leave the 'other' input channel visible at the picture edges. Grumble grumble... Over to Wikipedia, then. Let's see... Vertical Interval TimeCode (VITC, pronounced "vitsee" or sometimes "vits") is a form of SMPTE timecode embedded as a pair of black-and-white bars in a video signal. These lines are typically inserted into the vertical blanking interval of the video signal. Lots of acronyms for "TBC"... "Time Base Corrector" looks likely... Timebase correction is a technique to reduce or eliminate errors present in all analog recordings on mechanical media, including video tape recorders and videocassette recorders, caused by mechanical instability. No entry entitled DVE... Try searching on "DVE" and "video"... The entry on "Vision Mixer" contains those terms... A vision mixer (also called video switcher, video mixer or production switcher) is a device used to select between several different video sources and in some cases composite (mix) video sources together and add special effects. [...] Modern vision mixers may also have additional functions, such as machine control, aux channels for routing signals to other sources than the program out, macro programming and DVE (Digital Video Effects) capabilities. Did I get it right? -- Dave Farrance |
HDTV in the UK
Dave Farrance wrote: Mark Carver wrote: Indeed, though it's not unusual to see VITC that's 'slipped' down into active picture owing to poor set up of TBCs etc in an edit suite, and DVEs that still leave the 'other' input channel visible at the picture edges. Grumble grumble... Over to Wikipedia, then. Let's see... Vertical Interval TimeCode (VITC, pronounced "vitsee" or sometimes "vits") is a form of SMPTE timecode embedded as a pair of black-and-white bars in a video signal. These lines are typically inserted into the vertical blanking interval of the video signal. Lots of acronyms for "TBC"... "Time Base Corrector" looks likely... Timebase correction is a technique to reduce or eliminate errors present in all analog recordings on mechanical media, including video tape recorders and videocassette recorders, caused by mechanical instability. No entry entitled DVE... Try searching on "DVE" and "video"... The entry on "Vision Mixer" contains those terms... A vision mixer (also called video switcher, video mixer or production switcher) is a device used to select between several different video sources and in some cases composite (mix) video sources together and add special effects. [...] Modern vision mixers may also have additional functions, such as machine control, aux channels for routing signals to other sources than the program out, macro programming and DVE (Digital Video Effects) capabilities. Did I get it right? Very good Dave, yes well deduced ! Sorry, I forgot and thought I was in uk.tech.broadcast, I went a bit OTT with the acronyms :-) |
HDTV in the UK
In article ,
Dave Farrance wrote: Vertical Interval TimeCode (VITC, pronounced "vitsee" or sometimes "vits") Did I get it right? I suspect that 'vits' actually stems from "Vertical Interval Test Signal" which is put on analogue signals leaving the master control on their way to the transmitter. They are/were used for checking performance of circuits and transmitters. -- From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 |
HDTV in the UK
John Russell wrote:
"aa" wrote in message . uk... Item updated today.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/12...guide_updated/ If it has been updated it does sound a little outdated. This years HD sets have much better SD scalers and when properly set up make good SD DVB broadcasts look fantastic. The problem is they also make bad DVB virtually unwatchable. I think anyone looking for a large screen (32) would be mad to go out and get a humungous SD CRT. Your are better off getting a HD Ready LCD/Plasmsa, even for SD. The good thing is that bad SD looks so bad the wife will watch Strictly come Dancing on the CRT in the bedroom, leaving you to watch the HD soccer in peace. So "good SD DVB broadcasts look fantastic" but BBC1 at nearly 5Mbps counts as "bad SD"?! Where are you finding "good SD DVB" broadcasts? I realise Strictly Come Dancing is a challenge to MPEG coding, and frequently pixellates, but so do a lot of things. The majority of DTT and DSat channels are at lower bitrates, and most aren't even at 720x576, so I doubt these count as "good SD DVB" either. Just trying to figure uot if what you're saying is that SD looks OK as long as there are no artefacts, which (IMO) means a progressive image with little movement and not too much detail. What a useful TV to have! Cheers, David. |
HDTV in the UK
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:43:45 +0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote: What "crud" should there be if the lines we are talking about are specified as active picture lines containing only picture information? The crap that lazy broadcasters can't be bothered to do anything about. It's amazing how often the phrase "that's in cutoff" or similar gets mentioned at work. I usually tell them there is no such thing (especially at the top/bottom on the 14x9 masked stuff we produce) but they usually give me that look that says "I don't know what you're on about so I'll just ignore it and carry on anyway". There is already a no-go area of a video signal that is not intended to be displayed, and which the design and construction of a display device can be arranged not to display; it's called "blanking". Quite. Overscan is a 60 year old anachronism and it should have been binned long ago. It certainly has no place in modern digital tellies. |
HDTV in the UK
Strictly Come Dancing looks brilliant compared to I'm a Pixel: Get Me
Out of Here! Stan |
HDTV in the UK
Stan The Man wrote:
Strictly Come Dancing looks brilliant compared to I'm a Pixel: Get Me Out of Here! Agreed. As mentioned before I think SCD also benefits from being shot with HD cameras. What I saw of ITV's jungle show was more like watching something on YouTube. -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
HDTV in the UK
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:26:36 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe
wrote: What "crud" should there be if the lines we are talking about are specified as active picture lines containing only picture information? The crap that lazy broadcasters can't be bothered to do anything about. It's amazing how often the phrase "that's in cutoff" or similar gets mentioned at work. I usually tell them there is no such thing I've lost count of the number of times I've told people exactly the same thing. I think the notion of "cutoff" (in the framing sense) must be imbued in film schools, which seem to be where a lot of newcomers to the television industry are coming from these days. These people are evidently taught a lot of ancient lore and traditions about that old-fashioned mechanical clickety-clack stuff with sprocket holes down the sides and then released into an industry that hardly uses it any more. but they usually give me that look that says "I don't know what you're on about so I'll just ignore it and carry on anyway". A regrettably common attitude. I wonder if they're taught that at film school too? Rod. |
HDTV in the UK
"Mark Carver" wrote in message ... Stan The Man wrote: Strictly Come Dancing looks brilliant compared to I'm a Pixel: Get Me Out of Here! Agreed. As mentioned before I think SCD also benefits from being shot with HD cameras. What I saw of ITV's jungle show was more like watching something on YouTube. I was present recently when an IT man was showing a group of schoolteachers how to access U Tube (I know, I know . . .). When the picture came up he made it full screen and one lady said, "Ohh, isn't it a good picture!" Bill |
HDTV in the UK
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:48:42 -0000, "Bill Wright"
wrote: I was present recently when an IT man was showing a group of schoolteachers how to access U Tube (I know, I know . . .). When the picture came up he made it full screen and one lady said, "Ohh, isn't it a good picture!" Considering it may have come halfway round the world, jostling its digits with millions of emails, having been shot on somebody's mobile phone, and then finally delivered to you along a twisted pair of wires originally intended for 3kHz speech quality audio, it still astounds me that there is ever a picture there at all. I'm sure J. L. Baird would have been impressed. Rod. |
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