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OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
Roderick Stewart wrote:
I'm sure it can't be legal to put mains directly on a low voltage cable, so there must be isolation somewhere. Yes, in a transformer, as I said earlier - a high-frequency ferrite-cored transformer rather than an iron-cored job. Often a switch-mode circuit will also use an opto-isolator in the path that provides feedback of the output voltage (or current) to a control circuit on the primary side for regulation. And since most phone charger connectors are too small to include any kind of switch, it can only be the low voltage circuit, not the mains circuit, that is broken by removing it. It wouldn't be a switch-mode charger if it didn't include _some_ kind of switch :~) -- Andy |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
JF wrote: In message . com, Mark Carver writes A Sky box when in standby does nothing more than tune itself to the 'default' transponder, mute the audio and video outputs, and turn the green front panel LED to red. ISTR there is hardly any difference in consumption between 'On' and 'Standby'. I think they also dump firmware updates somewhere such as shuffling EPG numbers around. Such is the advantage of using a restricted licence encryption system. AFAIA no Freeview box or integrated circuitry performs that useful function. Yes, firmware upgrades are downloaded to the boxes, although this still happens when the box is 'on' and tuned to any 'Sky platform' transponder anyway. Sky have certainly 'Got It Right' when it comes to EPG reshuffles, they're seamless, but as you say that's the advantage of operating a 'closed platform'. |
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"Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "Digby" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:05:33 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Pyriform" wrote in message ... Can you enlighten me how I'm supposed to use my fridge freezer to save leccy? Turn it down a bit? Steve Terry Turn it up surely Turn the power down, allowing the temp to rise a bit. I'm inclined to think that, whichever is the correct way to say it, this would be irresponsible advice. tim |
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"Pyriform" wrote in message ... Steve Terry wrote: "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Pyriform" wrote in message ... I have this morning received a communication from my current energy supplier, Southern Electric. After explaining that they've fulfilled their May promise not to increase my prices again for the rest of 2006, and are therefore now going to increase them from 1st January 2007, they point me in the direction of their handy energy-saving leaflet, which they have enclosed. "Work WONDERS in a WEEKEND", it proclaims, ahead of a list of 4 energy saving priorities. In fourth place, the fridge-freezer. Can you enlighten me how I'm supposed to use my fridge freezer to save leccy? Turn it down a bit? I omitted the suggestion, which was to go out and buy a replacement A-rated appliance, because it was not relevant to the point I was attempting to make about mobile phone chargers and corporate stupidity. Ah, so in order to save the extra emissions from 5 quids worth of leccy I'm suppoosed to throw away a perfectly servicable FF and suffer the extra emissions from having a new one made and delivered. I bet the van that brings it to my house would chuck out more pollutants than can be saved in 5 years of use. tim |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
In article , Max Demian
writes "JF" wrote in message ... In message , linker3000 writes of USB ports: Some of this energy is now tapped off on modern computers to charge mobile devices and also act as a personal space heater - if you have ever sat with a laptop on your lap, you can clearly feel your nads warming up (not the ladies, obviously). I recently saw in Guildford's PC World a USB coffee warmer on their wallyware display. It consisted of a USB lead and a pad which, presumably, held some sort of element. I was given one of those last Christmas. It gets hot, but, since almost all coffee mugs have a rim on the base to stop heat from being conducted down to the table, the same rim stops heat from the gadget from passing up to the coffee. I thought the ridge on the base was to prevent liquid being drawn underneath by capillary action and causing the mug to stick. Since heat rises this 'rim' should not cause much of a problem. I do question how much heat will bas through the material the mug is made from. -- Ian G8ILZ |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:03:25 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: You could 'borrow' electricity from the neighbours if this comes about http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061115-8229.html The trouble with Tesla is that he's not dead enough. Little to do with dodgy dead Serbs. The idea is the run a resonator on a standard frequency of around 6MHz in each house, with chargeable products like laptops, mobile phones, etc, having a built in matching frequency resonator detecting, and rectifying down to DC to charge up. Presumably it would have to be switched on all the time to be of more practical use than something you have to remember, like plugging into a conventional charger. I wonder how efficient that would make it? Rod. If you aren't coupled and drawing power, very little power lost. Obviously both resonator and receiving appliance would have power meters to show coupling efficiency Bit like watching your wifi meter on a laptop Steve Terry |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message
... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "Digby" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:05:33 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Pyriform" wrote in message ... Can you enlighten me how I'm supposed to use my fridge freezer to save leccy? Turn it down a bit? Steve Terry Turn it up surely Turn the power down, allowing the temp to rise a bit. I'm inclined to think that, whichever is the correct way to say it, this would be irresponsible advice. tim Only of your fridge temp rose above +4C and freezer above -18C Best thing Fridge/freezer manufacturers can do is put in accurate thermometers controlling CPU temp regulation. Instead of leaving it up to the owner to randomly wiggle a knob. Would both save energy and users health Steve Terry |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "Digby" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:05:33 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Pyriform" wrote in message ... Can you enlighten me how I'm supposed to use my fridge freezer to save leccy? Turn it down a bit? Steve Terry Turn it up surely Turn the power down, allowing the temp to rise a bit. I'm inclined to think that, whichever is the correct way to say it, this would be irresponsible advice. tim Only of your fridge temp rose above +4C and freezer above -18C Well yes. But without first establishing that this won't happen, suggesting that people turn up/down their control is irresponsible. tim Best thing Fridge/freezer manufacturers can do is put in accurate thermometers controlling CPU temp regulation. Instead of leaving it up to the owner to randomly wiggle a knob. Would both save energy and users health Steve Terry |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Prometheus" wrote in message
... In article , Max Demian writes "JF" wrote in message ... In message , linker3000 writes of USB ports: Some of this energy is now tapped off on modern computers to charge mobile devices and also act as a personal space heater - if you have ever sat with a laptop on your lap, you can clearly feel your nads warming up (not the ladies, obviously). I recently saw in Guildford's PC World a USB coffee warmer on their wallyware display. It consisted of a USB lead and a pad which, presumably, held some sort of element. I was given one of those last Christmas. It gets hot, but, since almost all coffee mugs have a rim on the base to stop heat from being conducted down to the table, the same rim stops heat from the gadget from passing up to the coffee. I thought the ridge on the base was to prevent liquid being drawn underneath by capillary action and causing the mug to stick. Since heat rises this 'rim' should not cause much of a problem. "Heat rises" refers to convection currents. Conducted heat passes in any direction with equal ease. I suppose there may be a little convection in the space under the mug, but a saucepan designed to be used on a hotplate or boiling ring has a flat bottom and is made of a conductive material. I do question how much heat will bas through the material the mug is made from. Not a lot as most ceramics are poor insulators.. -- Max Demian |
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"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "Digby" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:05:33 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Pyriform" wrote in message ... snip Best thing Fridge/freezer manufacturers can do is put in accurate thermometers controlling CPU temp regulation. Instead of leaving it up to the owner to randomly wiggle a knob. Would both save energy and users health Steve Terry Well yes. But without first establishing that this won't happen, suggesting that people turn up/down their control is irresponsible. tim Most people twiddle regularly with their knobs pointlessly anyway (take that as you will) Steve Terry |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "Digby" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:05:33 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Pyriform" wrote in message ... Can you enlighten me how I'm supposed to use my fridge freezer to save leccy? Turn it down a bit? Steve Terry Turn it up surely Turn the power down, allowing the temp to rise a bit. and stop calling me Shirley Steve Terry This always confuses me. If I turn the freezer down the temperature goes up. If I press the down button on my VCR the channel number goes up, because I'm going down the list and the numbers get higher the lower down the list they are. I can't cope with modern life, that the truth of it. Bill |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "Digby" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:05:33 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Pyriform" wrote in message ... Can you enlighten me how I'm supposed to use my fridge freezer to save leccy? Turn it down a bit? Steve Terry Turn it up surely Turn the power down, allowing the temp to rise a bit. I'm inclined to think that, whichever is the correct way to say it, this would be irresponsible advice. Well, you have to keep your frozen food at -18deg, otherwise the bugs can still multiply and you could get the ****s. Then you'd be sat on the bog for ages. That would be bad for the environment, because: 1. You would stink the house out, making the missus drive round to her mother's in her 4x4. 2. You would read the the salacious details of soap stars' lives in the Daily Mirror whilst on the throne, thus encouraging you to watch more energy-gobbling TV. 3. You would use reams of bog paper, thus causing a forest of trees to get chopped down. 4. In the event of an accident you might have to put your kecks in the washing machine on a deep clean cycle, thus using leccy and detergent. 5. You would become dehydrated, leading to the consumption of a few extra pints of ale. And as every greenfreak will know, it takes enough water to fill Coniston Lake to make one pint of beer. Bill |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Steve Terry" wrote in message ... Most people twiddle regularly with their knobs pointlessly anyway Mine fell off. Mind you that was twenty years ago. It hasn't been a problem, really. Bill |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:05:33 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: Can you enlighten me how I'm supposed to use my fridge freezer to save leccy? Turn it down a bit? Placing the fridge so there is a clear airflow, ideally of cool air, over the condenser tubes at the back should help it a bit, though I couldn't guess how much you'd need to do to achieve a useful improvement. It might be enough just to clear any junk that is leaning against it or move it an inch or two further from the wall. Some objective measurements would be interesting if anybody has the time and patience to do them. Rod. I have installed 24VDC fridges designed for yachts, but in motorhomes. They work just like a mains fridge with a compressor, etc. To my surprise the instructions tell you to leave a decent space around the radiator thingy at the back, but not to ensure air flow. I actually did the first one with no airflow and it just ran and ran and the radiator thingy gor red hot. I put two fridge vents (Electrolux ones, meant for gas fridges) in the vehicle wall, allowing convection currents, and eee by gum it made a big difference! The manufacturer's instructions are all the more surprising because one of the sales points of the fridge is that it uses a minimal amount of power (important in yachts). Bill |
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"linker3000" wrote in message ... Bill, you idiot! This has nothing to do with email! The USB charging power comes down the outer braid of the USB cable using the skin effect as it is actually high frequency energy generated by the CPU. The CPU radiates microwave energy, which is picked up and directed to the USB port by the large lump of metal placed in close proximity to the CPU - notice the 'vanes' on most modern heatsinks? - they are actually waveguides and microwave reflectors. In reality, the CPU does not heat up due to power dissipation caused by fast transistor switching, but because of the microwave energy field it generates as a 'vessel' for the magic white smoke held in its core and which must not be vented because without it the CPU will not work. Some of this energy is now tapped off on modern computers to charge mobile devices and also act as a personal space heater - if you have ever sat with a laptop on your lap, you can clearly feel your nads warming up (not the ladies, obviously). Thank goodness someone has finally explained this! I've asked the manufacturers, looked on Wikipaedia, asked my mum, everything, and no-one has been able to provide an explanation that I could relate to. Thank you! Bill |
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"charles" wrote in message ... In article , JF wrote: In message , linker3000 writes of USB ports: Some of this energy is now tapped off on modern computers to charge mobile devices and also act as a personal space heater - if you have ever sat with a laptop on your lap, you can clearly feel your nads warming up (not the ladies, obviously). I recently saw in Guildford's PC World a USB coffee warmer on their wallyware display. It consisted of a USB lead and a pad which, presumably, held some sort of element. why not just use the cup tray that is already built-in to every computer. You know, the one that you just push a button on the front panel to get it to appear ;-) You have to watch it though with that bugger! Sometimes it slams shut for no reason and spills your pint! Then you get some sort of weird message on the screen: "Please insert a suitable disk." Bill |
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"Max Demian" wrote in message ... I do question how much heat will bas through the material the mug is made from. Not a lot as most ceramics are poor insulators.. "Not a lot as most ceramics are good insulators." or "A lot as most ceramics are poor insulators." It's a good idea to put a sock around your mug when you're drinking tea in cold conditions, especially if it's windy. Bill |
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"Bill Wright" wrote in message ... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... Most people twiddle regularly with their knobs pointlessly anyway Mine fell off. Mind you that was twenty years ago. It hasn't been a problem, really. Bill It could be, your fridge freezer may have been left overly cold, wasting energy and your money. Or the opposite endangering your health. Or maybe you've just been wanking too much Steve Terry |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
In article , Max Demian
writes "Prometheus" wrote in message ... In article , Max Demian writes ------------Cut-------------- I recently saw in Guildford's PC World a USB coffee warmer on their wallyware display. It consisted of a USB lead and a pad which, presumably, held some sort of element. I was given one of those last Christmas. It gets hot, but, since almost all coffee mugs have a rim on the base to stop heat from being conducted down to the table, the same rim stops heat from the gadget from passing up to the coffee. I thought the ridge on the base was to prevent liquid being drawn underneath by capillary action and causing the mug to stick. Since heat rises this 'rim' should not cause much of a problem. "Heat rises" refers to convection currents. Conducted heat passes in any direction with equal ease. I was using the simplistic term. I suppose there may be a little convection in the space under the mug, but a saucepan designed to be used on a hotplate or boiling ring has a flat bottom and is made of a conductive material. Which is sensible. I do question how much heat will bas through the material the mug is made from. Not a lot as most ceramics are poor insulators.. I suspect that the "boundary effect" will prevent convection cells forming, there will be conduction through the rim of some materials, i.e. ceramic* and (single) metal, there will also be radiant transfer but this depends on the emissivity of the materials. Of course you could: either drink quicker, or get Dewar flask design mug. * Ceramics are poor conductors of electricity and good conductors of heat. -- Ian G8ILZ |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
Bill Wright wrote:
"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "Digby" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:05:33 GMT, "Steve Terry" wrote: "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message ... "Pyriform" wrote in message ... Can you enlighten me how I'm supposed to use my fridge freezer to save leccy? Turn it down a bit? Steve Terry Turn it up surely Turn the power down, allowing the temp to rise a bit. I'm inclined to think that, whichever is the correct way to say it, this would be irresponsible advice. Well, you have to keep your frozen food at -18deg, otherwise the bugs can still multiply and you could get the ****s. Then you'd be sat on the bog for ages. That would be bad for the environment, because: 1. You would stink the house out, making the missus drive round to her mother's in her 4x4. 2. You would read the the salacious details of soap stars' lives in the Daily Mirror whilst on the throne, thus encouraging you to watch more energy-gobbling TV. 3. You would use reams of bog paper, thus causing a forest of trees to get chopped down. 4. In the event of an accident you might have to put your kecks in the washing machine on a deep clean cycle, thus using leccy and detergent. 5. You would become dehydrated, leading to the consumption of a few extra pints of ale. And as every greenfreak will know, it takes enough water to fill Coniston Lake to make one pint of beer. Bill This sounds like the voice of experience. |
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"Steve Terry" wrote in message
... "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message Best thing Fridge/freezer manufacturers can do is put in accurate thermometers controlling CPU temp regulation. Instead of leaving it up to the owner to randomly wiggle a knob. Would both save energy and users health 1) Reliability: If the regulation went wrong you would have to call in the repair man or, more likely, throw the thing away. 2) Personal preference: You might want your milk/beer extra cold, or not too cold if you have dodgy teeth. -- Max Demian |
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DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Whoever wrote that leaflet was probably sacked from his position as Dixons Sales Assistant, I reckon. You mean PROMOTED to a Dixons Sales assistant afterwards, there is nothing lower.. FDJ |
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Max Demian wrote:
"Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message Best thing Fridge/freezer manufacturers can do is put in accurate thermometers controlling CPU temp regulation. Instead of leaving it up to the owner to randomly wiggle a knob. Would both save energy and users health 1) Reliability: If the regulation went wrong you would have to call in the repair man or, more likely, throw the thing away. 2) Personal preference: You might want your milk/beer extra cold, or not too cold if you have dodgy teeth. A few degrees either way on a fridge won't make much difference to energy consumption. Opening the door a lot will, especially if it's mostly empty. But it's the freezer that uses the most power, by a considerable margin, because it has to maintain a large temperature differential with the outside. My fridge-freezer has an LCD display indicating the temperature in both compartments. Under normal operating conditions, the displays are rock solid at 3 degrees (as set by me) and -22 degrees (not adjustable). All very reassuring. However, when it went wrong a year or so ago (fridge compartment becoming too hot), I monitored the temperature in both compartments using wireless temperature senders to check my repair. What I discovered is that the reported temperatures, whilst not entirely fictitious, are economical with the truth (to put it mildly). The reality is that both compartments are subject to substantial temperature fluctuations - especially when the unit is de-icing the evaporator coils (it's a frost-free design). During the subsequent recovery phase, the freezer temperature then plummets well below -22. Nearer to -40, in fact. None of this is reflected in the indicated temperatures - presumably the designers thought users would regard the unit as faulty, so chose to filter these values out! Determining the optimal hysteresis for a compressor-driven refrigeration system is no doubt a fascinating problem. For somebody else. |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 02:12:11 -0000, "Bill Wright"
wrote: I have installed 24VDC fridges designed for yachts, but in motorhomes. They work just like a mains fridge with a compressor, etc. To my surprise the instructions tell you to leave a decent space around the radiator thingy at the back, but not to ensure air flow. I actually did the first one with no airflow and it just ran and ran and the radiator thingy gor red hot. I put two fridge vents (Electrolux ones, meant for gas fridges) in the vehicle wall, allowing convection currents, and eee by gum it made a big difference! The manufacturer's instructions are all the more surprising because one of the sales points of the fridge is that it uses a minimal amount of power (important in yachts). Did the instructions say specifically *not* to allow airflow, or did they simply omit to mention that you should allow it? Not very good either way, but regrettably not unusual for instructions about anything technical. No wonder most people don't read them. Rod. |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Steve Terry" wrote in message ... "Bill Wright" wrote in message ... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... Most people twiddle regularly with their knobs pointlessly anyway Mine fell off. Mind you that was twenty years ago. It hasn't been a problem, really. Bill It could be, your fridge freezer may have been left overly cold, wasting energy and your money. Or the opposite endangering your health. Or maybe you've just been wanking too much Or both. Bill |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message ... On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 02:12:11 -0000, "Bill Wright" wrote: I have installed 24VDC fridges designed for yachts, but in motorhomes. They work just like a mains fridge with a compressor, etc. To my surprise the instructions tell you to leave a decent space around the radiator thingy at the back, but not to ensure air flow. I actually did the first one with no airflow and it just ran and ran and the radiator thingy gor red hot. I put two fridge vents (Electrolux ones, meant for gas fridges) in the vehicle wall, allowing convection currents, and eee by gum it made a big difference! The manufacturer's instructions are all the more surprising because one of the sales points of the fridge is that it uses a minimal amount of power (important in yachts). Did the instructions say specifically *not* to allow airflow, or did they simply omit to mention that you should allow it? Not very good either way, but regrettably not unusual for instructions about anything technical. No wonder most people don't read them. The fact that no airflow is needed is a sales point. It was trumpeted loudly. Presumably the provision of airflow is seen as a major problem. It's daft though, because even if you can't vent it to the outside you can leave an inch below and above the unit, allowing a little bit of convection. The only problem with my idea of venting to the outside is that you have to seal right round the unit or you get draughts. Bill |
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Bill Wright wrote:
"Max Demian" wrote in message ... I do question how much heat will bas through the material the mug is made from. Not a lot as most ceramics are poor insulators.. "Not a lot as most ceramics are good insulators." or "A lot as most ceramics are poor insulators." It's a good idea to put a sock around your mug when you're drinking tea in cold conditions, especially if it's windy. Bill Ahem: It's a good idea to put a *CLEAN* sock around your mug when you're drinking tea in cold conditions, especially if it's windy. Fixed it for ya! |
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linker3000 wrote:
Bill Wright wrote: "Max Demian" wrote in message ... I do question how much heat will bas through the material the mug is made from. Not a lot as most ceramics are poor insulators.. "Not a lot as most ceramics are good insulators." or "A lot as most ceramics are poor insulators." It's a good idea to put a sock around your mug when you're drinking tea in cold conditions, especially if it's windy. Bill Ahem: It's a good idea to put a *CLEAN* sock around your mug when you're drinking tea in cold conditions, especially if it's windy. Fixed it for ya! Now you tell me! No wonder my feet got cold. |
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"Steve Terry" wrote in message
"JF" wrote in message ... In message , Digby writes You could 'borrow' electricity from the neighbours if this comes about http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061115-8229.html The trouble with Tesla is that he's not dead enough. Little to do with dodgy dead Serbs. Steve Terry Really? -- ThePunisher |
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On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:13:42 +0000, Prometheus
wrote: Of course you could: either drink quicker, or get Dewar flask design mug. Or a Klein flask - they hold absolutely loads! Charlie -- Remove NO-SPOO-PLEASE from my email address to reply Please send no unsolicited email or foodstuffs |
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In article , Charlie Pearce
writes On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:13:42 +0000, Prometheus wrote: Of course you could: either drink quicker, or get Dewar flask design mug. Or a Klein flask - they hold absolutely loads! Arguably they are entirely outside; there are certain logistical difficulties in having one delivered to our three dimensional universe. -- Ian G8ILZ |
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The message
from Digby contains these words: ====snip==== Well the later chargers obviously don't have zero current when not charging, but it is reasonable low. As I just happen to have an old and new charger handy I thought I'd measure their current. Old charger On charge 4.3W No phone connected 1.38W New charger On charge 3.2W No phone connected 0.11W Are those wattage figures calculated from a current and voltage measurement, or do you have a very expensive watt meter capable of 3 digit accuracy on a 10 or 20 watt FSD setting? If the former and the current measurements were 5,75mA and 0.458mA respectively on a 240v supply, you might be over-estimating the power consumption of the older charger by a few tens of percentage. The later switched mode unit is probably only a few percent adrift from reality. TBH, Those plugtop (50Hz) transformers are abysmally high loss devices typically consuming 2 or 3 watts on no load. The best such plugtop transformer I tested being, funnily enough, one designed for a telephone answering machine which only wasted half a watt on no load. My measurements, BTW, were made using an analogue watt meter with mirrored (anti-parallax error) scale on the lowest setting of 100W FSD. If you've measured using a watt meter, I'd really love to know the make and model of the instrument you used. :-) -- Regards, John. Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying. The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots. |
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In message , Johnny B Good
writes The message from Digby contains these words: ====snip==== Well the later chargers obviously don't have zero current when not charging, but it is reasonable low. As I just happen to have an old and new charger handy I thought I'd measure their current. Old charger On charge 4.3W No phone connected 1.38W New charger On charge 3.2W No phone connected 0.11W Are those wattage figures calculated from a current and voltage measurement, or do you have a very expensive watt meter capable of 3 digit accuracy on a 10 or 20 watt FSD setting? If the former and the current measurements were 5,75mA and 0.458mA respectively on a 240v supply, you might be over-estimating the power consumption of the older charger by a few tens of percentage. The later switched mode unit is probably only a few percent adrift from reality. TBH, Those plugtop (50Hz) transformers are abysmally high loss devices typically consuming 2 or 3 watts on no load. The best such plugtop transformer I tested being, funnily enough, one designed for a telephone answering machine which only wasted half a watt on no load. My measurements, BTW, were made using an analogue watt meter with mirrored (anti-parallax error) scale on the lowest setting of 100W FSD. If you've measured using a watt meter, I'd really love to know the make and model of the instrument you used. :-) Use a 4-way extension plugged into a standard watt meter, with a table lamp plugged in to the extension, as well as the device you want to measure. Turn on lamp, measure reading, plug in charger, measure reading and subtract. Rinse and repeat if required. -- Chris |
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Pyriform wrote:
I have this morning received a communication from my current energy supplier, Southern Electric. After explaining that they've fulfilled their May promise not to increase my prices again for the rest of 2006, and are therefore now going to increase them from 1st January 2007, they point me in the direction of their handy energy-saving leaflet, which they have enclosed. "Work WONDERS in a WEEKEND", it proclaims, ahead of a list of 4 energy saving priorities. In fourth place, the fridge-freezer. In third place, the standby buttons. At number 2, the boiler thermostat (not the room thermostat, as those of us less expert in the field might have predicted). But in pole position, the lethal, energy guzzling mobile phone charger. I quote: "1 Unplug your mobile phone charger These little black boxes suck 100kWhrs a day from your socket, even when your phone is fully charged!" so do the power supplies that power my 2 external drives, the power supply that keeps my mouse charged up, then the four power supplies that keep my Dect phones charged. the power supply that keep my answering machine answering the phone. My freeview box and my DVd recorder, both on standby then there is my computer which is on 24 hours a day. so there is no way I am going to worry about a piddly little mobile phone charger. In other words I don't give a crap, I pay for my electric and if anyone got a problem with that then tough. |
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AD C wrote:
"1 Unplug your mobile phone charger These little black boxes suck 100kWhrs a day from your socket, even when your phone is fully charged!" so do the power supplies that power my 2 external drives, the power supply that keeps my mouse charged up, then the four power supplies that keep my Dect phones charged. the power supply that keep my answering machine answering the phone. My freeview box and my DVd recorder, both on standby then there is my computer which is on 24 hours a day. so there is no way I am going to worry about a piddly little mobile phone charger. Good grief man! That's nearly 46kW. And I bet those aren't your only electrical appliances. How do you stay cool? In other words I don't give a crap, I pay for my electric and if anyone got a problem with that then tough. That's the spirit. |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"Pyriform" wrote in message
... AD C wrote: "1 Unplug your mobile phone charger These little black boxes suck 100kWhrs a day from your socket, even when your phone is fully charged!" so do the power supplies that power my 2 external drives, the power supply that keeps my mouse charged up, then the four power supplies that keep my Dect phones charged. the power supply that keep my answering machine answering the phone. My freeview box and my DVd recorder, both on standby then there is my computer which is on 24 hours a day. so there is no way I am going to worry about a piddly little mobile phone charger. Good grief man! That's nearly 46kW. And I bet those aren't your only electrical appliances. How do you stay cool? I expect he has aircon. -- Max Demian |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
"AD C" wrote in message . uk... so do the power supplies that power my 2 external drives, the power supply that keeps my mouse charged up, then the four power supplies that keep my Dect phones charged. the power supply that keep my answering machine answering the phone. My freeview box and my DVd recorder, both on standby then there is my computer which is on 24 hours a day. so there is no way I am going to worry about a piddly little mobile phone charger. In other words I don't give a crap, I pay for my electric and if anyone got a problem with that then tough. That's more or less my attitude. I'm not going to put myself out worrying about power usage until (a) The Chinese agree to go back to pre-industrial poverty (b) Absurd city road schemes that cause vehicles to travel unneccessary miles are abolished (c) Bus lanes, which cause pollution by increasing traffic congestion, are abolished (d) The offices on Canary Wharf stop wasting £7k worth of electricity every night by leaving lights and computers on (e) We get some nuclear power stations built (d) The government tell Sky that they can't continue to supply receivers that use 25W on standby and 'have to be left on standby'. (Fat chance of the government telling Sky to do anything though) Bill |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
The message
from Chris contains these words: In message , Johnny B Good writes The message from Digby contains these words: ====snip==== Well the later chargers obviously don't have zero current when not charging, but it is reasonable low. As I just happen to have an old and new charger handy I thought I'd measure their current. Old charger On charge 4.3W No phone connected 1.38W New charger On charge 3.2W No phone connected 0.11W Are those wattage figures calculated from a current and voltage measurement, or do you have a very expensive watt meter capable of 3 digit accuracy on a 10 or 20 watt FSD setting? If the former and the current measurements were 5,75mA and 0.458mA respectively on a 240v supply, you might be over-estimating the power consumption of the older charger by a few tens of percentage. The later switched mode unit is probably only a few percent adrift from reality. TBH, Those plugtop (50Hz) transformers are abysmally high loss devices typically consuming 2 or 3 watts on no load. The best such plugtop transformer I tested being, funnily enough, one designed for a telephone answering machine which only wasted half a watt on no load. My measurements, BTW, were made using an analogue watt meter with mirrored (anti-parallax error) scale on the lowest setting of 100W FSD. If you've measured using a watt meter, I'd really love to know the make and model of the instrument you used. :-) Use a 4-way extension plugged into a standard watt meter, with a table lamp plugged in to the extension, as well as the device you want to measure. Turn on lamp, measure reading, plug in charger, measure reading and subtract. Rinse and repeat if required. That technique suggests you're using an electronic type of watt meter capable of 3 digit accuracy but unable to report power readings below a certain power level (ISTR an Aldi special which wouldn't read (or read reliably) below 7 watts). Is this the type of meter you're referring to as a "standard watt meter"? That technique of calculating the consumption from the difference between a lamp on its own and a lamp plus kit on test would _reduce_ the accuracy of the reading on _my_ standard watt meter. I can interpolate to a tenth of a watt reading if I use a jeweler's loupe or high powered magnifying glass to closely examine the zero end of the scale knowing that a 5% inaccuracy would be simply a 5% inaccuracy of the tenth of a watt reading I was taking rather than that of 60 watt and a 60.1 watt readings which would be subject to the effect of short term variations in mains voltage. It's not entirely clear what it is you're referring to as a "standard watt meter". Could you offer more detail such as whether it's an analogue or an electronic digital type of meter? I only ask because I'm quite impressed, nay, intrigued, by the precision of your no load wattage readings at such low power levels on mains voltage kit. -- Regards, John. Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying. The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots. |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
In message , Johnny B Good
writes The message from Chris contains these words: In message , Johnny B Good writes The message from Digby contains these words: ====snip==== Well the later chargers obviously don't have zero current when not charging, but it is reasonable low. As I just happen to have an old and new charger handy I thought I'd measure their current. Old charger On charge 4.3W No phone connected 1.38W New charger On charge 3.2W No phone connected 0.11W Are those wattage figures calculated from a current and voltage measurement, or do you have a very expensive watt meter capable of 3 digit accuracy on a 10 or 20 watt FSD setting? If the former and the current measurements were 5,75mA and 0.458mA respectively on a 240v supply, you might be over-estimating the power consumption of the older charger by a few tens of percentage. The later switched mode unit is probably only a few percent adrift from reality. TBH, Those plugtop (50Hz) transformers are abysmally high loss devices typically consuming 2 or 3 watts on no load. The best such plugtop transformer I tested being, funnily enough, one designed for a telephone answering machine which only wasted half a watt on no load. My measurements, BTW, were made using an analogue watt meter with mirrored (anti-parallax error) scale on the lowest setting of 100W FSD. If you've measured using a watt meter, I'd really love to know the make and model of the instrument you used. :-) Use a 4-way extension plugged into a standard watt meter, with a table lamp plugged in to the extension, as well as the device you want to measure. Turn on lamp, measure reading, plug in charger, measure reading and subtract. Rinse and repeat if required. That technique suggests you're using an electronic type of watt meter capable of 3 digit accuracy but unable to report power readings below a certain power level (ISTR an Aldi special which wouldn't read (or read reliably) below 7 watts). Is this the type of meter you're referring to as a "standard watt meter"? That technique of calculating the consumption from the difference between a lamp on its own and a lamp plus kit on test would _reduce_ the accuracy of the reading on _my_ standard watt meter. I can interpolate to a tenth of a watt reading if I use a jeweler's loupe or high powered magnifying glass to closely examine the zero end of the scale knowing that a 5% inaccuracy would be simply a 5% inaccuracy of the tenth of a watt reading I was taking rather than that of 60 watt and a 60.1 watt readings which would be subject to the effect of short term variations in mains voltage. It's not entirely clear what it is you're referring to as a "standard watt meter". Could you offer more detail such as whether it's an analogue or an electronic digital type of meter? I only ask because I'm quite impressed, nay, intrigued, by the precision of your no load wattage readings at such low power levels on mains voltage kit. I didn't perform the original tests posted earlier, but I personally use the following: http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=010916213 As you pointed out, there can be a problem with measurement of very low wattage appliances which is why I posted the technique above. -- Chris |
OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official
Pyriform wrote:
Good grief man! That's nearly 46kW. And I bet those aren't your only electrical appliances. How do you stay cool? I doubt it is any where near that amount. As you said I still have more, my fridge/freezer, my washing machine, vacume cleaner, clock radio, coffee maker which is used every morning, my george foreman, microwave and my juicer. the one thing i have not got is a dish washer. In other words I don't give a crap, I pay for my electric and if anyone got a problem with that then tough. That's the spirit. Oh yes. |
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