Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that *Satellite* TV
programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that *Satellite* TV
programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.

Probably meant to say *terrestrial* TV. Satellite should be unaffected
by inversions.


--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

JPG wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that *Satellite* TV
programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.

Probably meant to say *terrestrial* TV. Satellite should be unaffected
by inversions.

Agreed.

I saw this report while ironing! Didn't the news reader blame the
weather forecaster for the problem? Perhaps we should blame the news
reader for the war on terror?

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

On 7 Nov 2006 06:08:05 -0800, "JPG"
wrote:

|
|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that *Satellite* TV
| programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
| myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.
|
|Probably meant to say *terrestrial* TV. Satellite should be unaffected
|by inversions.

The forecaster definitely said **satellite** otherwise I would have ignored
it.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article , Dave Fawthrop
writes
On 7 Nov 2006 06:08:05 -0800, "JPG"
wrote:

|
|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that *Satellite* TV
| programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
| myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.
|
|Probably meant to say *terrestrial* TV. Satellite should be unaffected
|by inversions.

The forecaster definitely said **satellite** otherwise I would have ignored
it.


BBC lacking in Technical competence one again!..
--
Tony Sayer

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On 7 Nov 2006 06:08:05 -0800, "JPG"
wrote:

|
|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that
*Satellite* TV
| programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
| myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.
|
|Probably meant to say *terrestrial* TV. Satellite should be unaffected
|by inversions.

The forecaster definitely said **satellite** otherwise I would have
ignored
it.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

While on holiday using my portable satellite dish, during a severe storm out
at sea nothing was available. Once the storm had passed all was O.K.

--
John the West Ham fan

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article , housetrained
writes
"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
.. .
On 7 Nov 2006 06:08:05 -0800, "JPG"
wrote:

|
|Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that
*Satellite* TV
| programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
| myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.
|
|Probably meant to say *terrestrial* TV. Satellite should be unaffected
|by inversions.

The forecaster definitely said **satellite** otherwise I would have
ignored
it.

--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

While on holiday using my portable satellite dish, during a severe storm out
at sea nothing was available. Once the storm had passed all was O.K.


Yes a known thing called "rain fade"
--
Tony Sayer

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

tony sayer wrote:

BBC lacking in Technical competence one again!..

Very much so, if you read this account of the broadcast:-

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=11441402&postcount=1589

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article . com, Mark
Carver writes

tony sayer wrote:

BBC lacking in Technical competence one again!..

Very much so, if you read this account of the broadcast:-

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=11441402&postcount=1589


Shameful:(
--
Tony Sayer

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that *Satellite*
TV
programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.

Trouble is, this kind of "weather" also affects digital terrestrial
broadcasts, too. Currently, it's analogue TV and FM all the way for me, as
Freeview signal has fallen to pretty mich nothing, and DAB error rate is
running at an impossible-to-listen-to 60+. All the waffle that they come out
with about digital being unaffected by weather is utter garbage. Once we're
all forced onto digital TV, will I get a TV licence refund for every day
like this when I'll be unable to receive any TV at all?

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

Graculus wrote:

Trouble is, this kind of "weather" also affects digital terrestrial
broadcasts, too. Currently, it's analogue TV and FM all the way for me, as
Freeview signal has fallen to pretty mich nothing, and DAB error rate is
running at an impossible-to-listen-to 60+. All the waffle that they come out
with about digital being unaffected by weather is utter garbage. Once we're
all forced onto digital TV, will I get a TV licence refund for every day
like this when I'll be unable to receive any TV at all?

It'll be interesting to see. I think an unwanted analogue TV signal landing
on top of a wanted digital one, is more destructive than 'digital on
digital' ? Bill W will know from his experiences.

Of course after analogue switch off all our DTT transmissions will increase
in power, but it'll be the same in Europe, so back to square one ?

With analogue you can see the picture gradually getting worse during periods
such as this, with DTT there's a bit of pixelation then often black and silence.

There's some fun ahead me thinks.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
tony sayer wrote:

In article . com,
Mark Carver writes

tony sayer wrote:

BBC lacking in Technical competence one again!..

Very much so, if you read this account of the broadcast:-

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=11441402&postcount=1589


Shameful:(


Would any of the experts in the NG care to give a simple-ish explanation of
exactly what it is which is affecting the signals, and why?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

Roger Mills wrote:


Would any of the experts in the NG care to give a simple-ish explanation of
exactly what it is which is affecting the signals, and why?

In short anti-cyclonic weather leads to 'ducting' that can transport VHF and
UHF signals over great distances well beyond the horizon. These distant
signals then interfere with the reception of normal local services, often
corrupting them, and in some cases replacing them. Additionally the fog can
attenuate local 'line of sight' signals, exacerbating the effect.

Have a look at this Wiki page:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_ducting

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:

Shameful:(


Would any of the experts in the NG care to give a simple-ish explanation
of exactly what it is which is affecting the signals, and why?

Have a look at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/analo..._better4.shtml

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"Richard Oliver" wrote in message
...
JPG wrote:
Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On the BBC1 1 o'clock news, the weather forecaster said that *Satellite* TV
programs would be affected due to an inversion. Not noticed anything
myself, but I generally watch analogue or Freeview.

Probably meant to say *terrestrial* TV. Satellite should be unaffected
by inversions.

Agreed.

Well living in a fringe area I certainly had reception problems particularly
with the QAM 64 Muxes. If the goverrnment is so keen on digital roll out they
should make all the Freeview channels FTA on satellite so that more people can
receive them easily. Of course that I put Murdoch's nose out of joint and they
are probably much to afraid of upsetting him.

--

Michael Chare

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
charles wrote:

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:

Shameful:(


Would any of the experts in the NG care to give a simple-ish
explanation of exactly what it is which is affecting the signals,
and why?

Have a look at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/analo..._better4.shtml


Thanks to those who replied with the wiki and BBC links. I now have a much
better understanding of the physics of the problem.

Interestingly, the BBC article says "However, digital reception is far less
prone to interference problems than analogue television." That certainly
doesn't accord with my experience nor - judging by the posts here - with
that of many other viewers. Whether or not this will be better when the DTT
wick is turned up after analogue switch-off remains to be seen.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article , Roger Mills
writes
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
charles wrote:

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:

Shameful:(


Would any of the experts in the NG care to give a simple-ish
explanation of exactly what it is which is affecting the signals,
and why?

Have a look at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/analo..._better4.shtml


Thanks to those who replied with the wiki and BBC links. I now have a much
better understanding of the physics of the problem.

Interestingly, the BBC article says "However, digital reception is far less
prone to interference problems than analogue television." That certainly
doesn't accord with my experience nor - judging by the posts here - with
that of many other viewers. Whether or not this will be better when the DTT
wick is turned up after analogue switch-off remains to be seen.

Its typical of the bull**** and spin that we can expect of the BBC these days.


Auntie isn't the "lady" she used to be;(..........
--
Tony Sayer

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

....snip...
Thanks to those who replied with the wiki and BBC links. I now have a much
better understanding of the physics of the problem.

Interestingly, the BBC article says "However, digital reception is far
less prone to interference problems than analogue television." That
certainly doesn't accord with my experience nor - judging by the posts
here - with that of many other viewers. Whether or not this will be better
when the DTT wick is turned up after analogue switch-off remains to be
seen.
--


I have this fading memory that years ago 405 line VHF BBC1 from London
reached as far as Jo'burg in South Africa.

Paul DS

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:
...snip...
Thanks to those who replied with the wiki and BBC links. I now have a
much better understanding of the physics of the problem.

Interestingly, the BBC article says "However, digital reception is far
less prone to interference problems than analogue television." That
certainly doesn't accord with my experience nor - judging by the posts
here - with that of many other viewers. Whether or not this will be
better when the DTT wick is turned up after analogue switch-off
remains to be seen. --


I have this fading memory that years ago 405 line VHF BBC1 from London
reached as far as Jo'burg in South Africa.

Since there was no tv in South Africa at the time, and even when there was
it didn't use Band I, I wonder how anybody noticed.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

charles wrote:
In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:

I have this fading memory that years ago 405 line VHF BBC1 from London
reached as far as Jo'burg in South Africa.

Since there was no tv in South Africa at the time, and even when there was
it didn't use Band I, I wonder how anybody noticed.

The story has been knocking about for years, it could well be an urban
myth, however perhaps the audio carrier was received ?

The Wiki page I quoted mentions reception of BBC 1 Holme Moss on Ch 2
in Perth Australia in 1979 however. Again no 405 TV service there.

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article . com,
Mark Carver wrote:

charles wrote:
In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:

I have this fading memory that years ago 405 line VHF BBC1 from London
reached as far as Jo'burg in South Africa.

Since there was no tv in South Africa at the time, and even when there
was it didn't use Band I, I wonder how anybody noticed.

The story has been knocking about for years, it could well be an urban
myth, however perhaps the audio carrier was received ?

The Wiki page I quoted mentions reception of BBC 1 Holme Moss on Ch 2
in Perth Australia in 1979 however. Again no 405 TV service there.

and there was the well documented one the other way round. In parts of the
Ayrshire coast viewers received a test pattern from an American station.
Trouble was the station had shut down three years previously !

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

charles wrote:
In article . com,
Mark Carver wrote:
The Wiki page I quoted mentions reception of BBC 1 Holme Moss on Ch 2
in Perth Australia in 1979 however. Again no 405 TV service there.

and there was the well documented one the other way round. In parts of the
Ayrshire coast viewers received a test pattern from an American station.
Trouble was the station had shut down three years previously !


Perhaps the signal had bounced off a planet 1.5 light years away ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

charles wrote:

and there was the well documented one the other way round. In parts of the
Ayrshire coast viewers received a test pattern from an American station.
Trouble was the station had shut down three years previously !

Long-delayed echoes, obviously :-)

This article lists many cases of extreme DX TV reception - mostly via
ionospheric modes in the low VHF (Sporadic-E and F2):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV-FM_DX

Separate page about Sporadic-E he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporadic_E

--
Andy

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article ,
Mark Carver wrote:
charles wrote:
In article . com,
Mark Carver wrote:
The Wiki page I quoted mentions reception of BBC 1 Holme Moss on Ch 2
in Perth Australia in 1979 however. Again no 405 TV service there.

and there was the well documented one the other way round. In parts of
the Ayrshire coast viewers received a test pattern from an American
station. Trouble was the station had shut down three years previously !


Perhaps the signal had bounced off a planet 1.5 light years away ?

or had been recorded by visitors from outer space and played back on their
next visit ?

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
ups.com...

charles wrote:
In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:

I have this fading memory that years ago 405 line VHF BBC1 from London
reached as far as Jo'burg in South Africa.

Since there was no tv in South Africa at the time, and even when there
was
it didn't use Band I, I wonder how anybody noticed.

The story has been knocking about for years, it could well be an urban
myth, however perhaps the audio carrier was received ?

Most certainly, in the 60's I used to listen to BBC sound on 40.50MHz
(video being on 45 MHz)

A frequency that cetainly could reach South Africa at sunspot peak,
or more likely multiple sporadic E in summer

Steve Terry

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

I have this fading memory that years ago 405 line VHF BBC1 from London
reached as far as Jo'burg in South Africa.

Since there was no tv in South Africa at the time, and even when there was
it didn't use Band I, I wonder how anybody noticed.

When did South Africa get TV then? This was shortly before 405 closed down
and the news item (BBC news) also mentioned something about the London
transmitter using an unsual bandwidth, something about it being old whereas
newer transmitters were somehow more efficient - but I was young so the
details are missing I'm afraid.

Paul DS.

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

Paul D.Smith wrote:
I have this fading memory that years ago 405 line VHF BBC1 from London
reached as far as Jo'burg in South Africa.

Since there was no tv in South Africa at the time, and even when there was
it didn't use Band I, I wonder how anybody noticed.

When did South Africa get TV then?

I think SABC started their TV service as late as 1975 ?

This was shortly before 405 closed down
and the news item (BBC news) also mentioned something about the London
transmitter using an unsual bandwidth, something about it being old whereas
newer transmitters were somehow more efficient - but I was young so the
details are missing I'm afraid.

The old Ally Pally BBC TV transmitter used double sideband
transmission, all subsequent 405 and 625 line txs have used vestigial
sidebands, and I think this included Crystal Palace 405 when the move
to there was made in the 50s ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestigal_sideband

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article , Paul D.Smith
wrote:
I have this fading memory that years ago 405 line VHF BBC1 from London
reached as far as Jo'burg in South Africa.

Since there was no tv in South Africa at the time, and even when there
was it didn't use Band I, I wonder how anybody noticed.

When did South Africa get TV then? This was shortly before 405 closed
down and the news item (BBC news) also mentioned something about the
London transmitter using an unsual bandwidth, something about it being
old whereas newer transmitters were somehow more efficient - but I was
young so the details are missing I'm afraid.

When Alexandra Palace opened in the 1930s it used double sideband
transmissions. All later services and London, when it moved to CP, used
single sideband. However the channel allocation for a double sideband
channel 1 still remained. CP opened in 1956 so at any date after that the
service had a normal bandwidth.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
Graculus wrote:

Trouble is, this kind of "weather" also affects digital terrestrial
broadcasts, too. Currently, it's analogue TV and FM all the way for me,
as Freeview signal has fallen to pretty mich nothing, and DAB error rate
is running at an impossible-to-listen-to 60+. All the waffle that they
come out with about digital being unaffected by weather is utter garbage.
Once we're all forced onto digital TV, will I get a TV licence refund for
every day like this when I'll be unable to receive any TV at all?

It'll be interesting to see. I think an unwanted analogue TV signal
landing on top of a wanted digital one, is more destructive than 'digital
on digital' ? Bill W will know from his experiences.

Of course after analogue switch off all our DTT transmissions will
increase in power, but it'll be the same in Europe, so back to square one
?

With analogue you can see the picture gradually getting worse during
periods such as this, with DTT there's a bit of pixelation then often
black and silence.

It's very difficult to quantify, but I can generalise wildly and say that
analogue co-channel effects have to be pretty annoying before DTT starts to
fall over. That's with the present set-up in which DTT powers are generally
low.

Come the revolution . . err sorry, the analogue switch-off . . . the DTT
powers will increase. This should give better protection against
interference from foreign analogue signals, all things being equal, but it
will amount to nothing more than an arms escalation regarding DTT/DTT
co-channel from the UK, or indeed I suppose from the mainland.

Bill

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"Alan Pemberton" wrote in message
erve.co.uk.invalid...
Mark Carver wrote:

charles wrote:
In article ,
Paul D.Smith wrote:
snip
There was some off-screen footage taken of 405-line Ally Pally
transmissions received in North America around 1936-39.

Alli Pally London on 45MHz, which is a frequency which
under the right conditions will travel the world

Steve Terry

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article o.uk.invalid,
Alan Pemberton wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:

The old Ally Pally BBC TV transmitter used double sideband
transmission, all subsequent 405 and 625 line txs have used vestigial
sidebands, and I think this included Crystal Palace 405 when the move
to there was made in the 50s ?

Yes indeed, though there would still have been some DSB receivers around
at the time that would have had to be modified.

but Pawley states:

Many of the 20,000 to 25,000 receivers that had been in the hands of the
public immediately before the war had suffered from lack of use, from damp,
andin many cases from enemy action. It is doubtful how many of them
survived to be used again when the service was resumed in 1946

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"charles" wrote in message
...
Many of the 20,000 to 25,000 receivers that had been in the hands of the
public immediately before the war had suffered from lack of use, from
damp,
andin many cases from enemy action. It is doubtful how many of them
survived to be used again when the service was resumed in 1946
That's when we missed the chance to change to 625 lines.

Bill

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
Many of the 20,000 to 25,000 receivers that had been in the hands of the
public immediately before the war had suffered from lack of use, from
damp,
andin many cases from enemy action. It is doubtful how many of them
survived to be used again when the service was resumed in 1946

That's when we missed the chance to change to 625 lines.

Pawley mentions that, too. I simply quote two phrase2 ".. the 625-line
system was not agreed until July 1950, ..."

"To wait until then would have meant denying television to Britsih Viewers
for at leat a further 4 years. thepublic mood .. demanded reassurances
that peace had really returned .... and the resumption of BBC Televisio
helped to meet this need."

A thought: if we had waited until 1950+ for the standard to be agreed,
would as many people been able to see the Coronation in 1953?

In any case, the conversion to 625 was not a major problem because of the
very long duplication time; it was the use of uhf which caused such fun.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"charles" wrote in message
...
In any case, the conversion to 625 was not a major problem because of the
very long duplication time; it was the use of uhf which caused such fun.

Ohh, think of all those ghastly tellys that used to bust into flames when
you changed line standards! What joy it was to solder them into the 625
position when 405 ended.

Bill

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In any case, the conversion to 625 was not a major problem because of
the very long duplication time; it was the use of uhf which caused such
fun.

Ohh, think of all those ghastly tellys that used to bust into flames when
you changed line standards! What joy it was to solder them into the 625
position when 405 ended.

If they burst into flames, then surely the housholder would get a new set
on household insurance. Wonderful, I'd suggest.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Problems with Sat TV due to weather.
 

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In any case, the conversion to 625 was not a major problem because of
the very long duplication time; it was the use of uhf which caused such
fun.

Ohh, think of all those ghastly tellys that used to bust into flames when
you changed line standards! What joy it was to solder them into the 625
position when 405 ended.

If they burst into flames, then surely the housholder would get a new set
on household insurance. Wonderful, I'd suggest.

Whilst I'd agree with you that those prudent enough to take out insurance
would not suffer financially, I think that a sudden conflagration in the
living room just as father switches to BBC2 would be undesirable. I admit
the the programmes of the 1960s could be dull and that the small number of
channels restricted choice, but I doubt if many would welcome such extreme
excitement so close to bedtime.

Bill