Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:08:43 GMT, Dave Farrance
wrote:

Marky P wrote:

I'm not using the S-video out, I'm using the monitor connection
straight to the PC socket on the telly. Oddly enough, the 50" version
on my telly supports the higher resolution, but I either have to
settle with 4:3 or stretched 16:9 (which is ok for newsgroups but not
pictures). Perhaps Windows Vista will have more options.

By PC socket, do you mean VGA, DVI-I, or DVI-D. The answer is different
depending on which it is.


It's just labelled PC, but I believe it is VGA.

Marky P.

Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:17:22 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Rob wrote:
Marky P wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:20:58 +0100, Michael Rozdoba
wrote:

Marky P wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:15:51 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Marky P wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:37:03 +0100, Michael Rozdoba
wrote:

Mike Henry wrote:

IIRC Marky's TV is a plasma, not a LCD, and it's 1024 x 768
(16:0) which
means it has non-square pixels. If he were to pick a
"widescreen" PC
display mode (eg 1366 x 768) I'm not sure what would happen...
It would display correctly I imagine, albeit with reduced
horizontal resolution; certainly the aspect ratio should be correct.

I use that res on XP with a PDP-433MXE whose native res is
1024x768, with no problems.
I can't go any higher than 1024 x 768. My telly displays 'Not
Supported' :-( Bugger.

Mine's similar. So, I've connected it via the component output of
the graphics card (a nvidea), which has various utilities to output
at HD res, and an option to scale the picture. Looks pretty good to
me.

Rob
My graphics card only has S-video out,
Oh, well, no wonder then. Doesn't the TV have a vga, dvi or hdmi
input? How far is it from the PC?


I'm not using the S-video out, I'm using the monitor connection
straight to the PC socket on the telly. Oddly enough, the 50" version
on my telly supports the higher resolution, but I either have to
settle with 4:3 or stretched 16:9 (which is ok for newsgroups but not
pictures). Perhaps Windows Vista will have more options.

Marky P.


I'm not sure this 'native' thing can be done in software - the TV can
accept the resolution or it can't.

I'm in a similar position to you - I'd suggest getting a new video card
- the 6600GT with component out/720p I have does a decent job after a
lot of fiddling. Or perhaps one of the new HDMI cards once a few reviews
are out:

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...113171&_LOC=UK


Rob

A review:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6199&page=4


That sounds ok. Not toooooo expensive. I may give it a go.

Marky P.

Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

Marky.

I, too have been struggling with this problem. I have a Media Centre PVR
whichI want to output on a 16:9 analogue telly & a an XGA projector.I
believe we both have a fudemental problem. Your monitor is 4:3, your TV
is 16:9 & a lot of want you want to watch off DVD is 2.35:1. You can
have either a reasonable 16:9 display on the telly & a crap display on
the monitor or vice versa. You can find a 16:9 screen template for the
PC which makes it display Windows reasonably well on the telly but you
have to fudge it for the monitor. If you have a true 1024x768 telly with
non-square pixels then you have to do something on the graphics card to
correct for this. HDMI graphics cards are just becoming available but
they are fairly expensive & bloody noisy (fans that wouldn't be out of
place on the back of a hovercraft). I have seen an announcement for a
passively cooled Radeon 6600 with HDMI/HDCP which is coming out in
October. This seems more what we need but no prices are yet available &
you do need a full height case & probably two free slots to accommodate
the heat pipes & heat sinks.

I have not yet made the move to HD so I have solved the problem by using
a VGA-composite converter which allows me to scale & position the
picture so that it is acceptable on the monitor & looks OK on the 16:9
telly or my 1024x768 (4:3) projector.

I believe that our problem will become most other people's problem as HD
becomes more mainstream. This suggests that the problem will have to be
addressed sooner rather than later. However, at present, I think HD is
very much "bleeding edge" technology & the best approach is to stay with
the absinthe & wait until the technology matures & reduces in price. If
you consume enough on a regular basis, you won't notice the crap
pictures. I use London Pride, myself!



In article , Marky P
writes
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:17:22 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Rob wrote:
Marky P wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:20:58 +0100, Michael Rozdoba
wrote:

Marky P wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:15:51 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Marky P wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:37:03 +0100, Michael Rozdoba
wrote:

Mike Henry wrote:

IIRC Marky's TV is a plasma, not a LCD, and it's 1024 x 768
(16:0) which
means it has non-square pixels. If he were to pick a
"widescreen" PC
display mode (eg 1366 x 768) I'm not sure what would happen...
It would display correctly I imagine, albeit with reduced
horizontal resolution; certainly the aspect ratio should be correct.

I use that res on XP with a PDP-433MXE whose native res is
1024x768, with no problems.
I can't go any higher than 1024 x 768. My telly displays 'Not
Supported' :-( Bugger.

Mine's similar. So, I've connected it via the component output of
the graphics card (a nvidea), which has various utilities to output
at HD res, and an option to scale the picture. Looks pretty good to
me.

Rob
My graphics card only has S-video out,
Oh, well, no wonder then. Doesn't the TV have a vga, dvi or hdmi
input? How far is it from the PC?


I'm not using the S-video out, I'm using the monitor connection
straight to the PC socket on the telly. Oddly enough, the 50" version
on my telly supports the higher resolution, but I either have to
settle with 4:3 or stretched 16:9 (which is ok for newsgroups but not
pictures). Perhaps Windows Vista will have more options.

Marky P.


I'm not sure this 'native' thing can be done in software - the TV can
accept the resolution or it can't.

I'm in a similar position to you - I'd suggest getting a new video card
- the 6600GT with component out/720p I have does a decent job after a
lot of fiddling. Or perhaps one of the new HDMI cards once a few reviews
are out:


http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...n=c2hvd19wcm9k
dWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3=&product_uid=113171&_LOC=UK


Rob

A review:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6199&page=4


That sounds ok. Not toooooo expensive. I may give it a go.

Marky P.


--
Keith Bailey

Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

Marky P wrote:

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:08:43 GMT, Dave Farrance wrote:
By PC socket, do you mean VGA, DVI-I, or DVI-D. The answer is different
depending on which it is.

It's just labelled PC, but I believe it is VGA.

Hmm. You don't sound very sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI_connector

If it is VGA, then that's an analogue connector, so the capability just
depends on the graphics card of the PC. You simply select a 16:9 ratio
such as 1366 x 768, and the TV won't know how many analogue pixels that
you chose because that information isn't preserved with an analogue
connector, so it should simply display the picture with the correct
ratio.

--
Dave Farrance

Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

Keith Bailey wrote:
Marky.

I, too have been struggling with this problem. I have a Media Centre PVR
whichI want to output on a 16:9 analogue telly & a an XGA projector.I
believe we both have a fudemental problem. Your monitor is 4:3, your TV
is 16:9 & a lot of want you want to watch off DVD is 2.35:1. You can
have either a reasonable 16:9 display on the telly & a crap display on
the monitor or vice versa. You can find a 16:9 screen template for the
PC which makes it display Windows reasonably well on the telly but you
have to fudge it for the monitor. If you have a true 1024x768 telly with
non-square pixels then you have to do something on the graphics card to
correct for this. HDMI graphics cards are just becoming available but
they are fairly expensive & bloody noisy (fans that wouldn't be out of
place on the back of a hovercraft). I have seen an announcement for a
passively cooled Radeon 6600 with HDMI/HDCP which is coming out in
October. This seems more what we need but no prices are yet available &
you do need a full height case & probably two free slots to accommodate
the heat pipes & heat sinks.


Good points - and I'm with you all the way on the noise thing.

I have not yet made the move to HD so I have solved the problem by using
a VGA-composite converter which allows me to scale & position the
picture so that it is acceptable on the monitor & looks OK on the 16:9
telly or my 1024x768 (4:3) projector.


I really think you'd be better with a graphics card that has component
out. My 6600GT, that I've manged to quieten, does a pretty good job.

Apple has just announced iTV (for 2007) - A HD-capable bridge between
computer and TV. Quite why these things aren't built into PCs yet I
don't know.

I believe that our problem will become most other people's problem as HD
becomes more mainstream. This suggests that the problem will have to be
addressed sooner rather than later. However, at present, I think HD is
very much "bleeding edge" technology & the best approach is to stay with
the absinthe & wait until the technology matures & reduces in price. If
you consume enough on a regular basis, you won't notice the crap
pictures. I use London Pride, myself!

:-)

I'm leaving HD for a long time. I won't subscribe to anything, so that
leaves next gen video - a while off.

Rob



In article , Marky P
writes
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:17:22 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Rob wrote:
Marky P wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:20:58 +0100, Michael Rozdoba
wrote:

Marky P wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:15:51 +0100, Rob
wrote:

Marky P wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:37:03 +0100, Michael Rozdoba
wrote:

Mike Henry wrote:

IIRC Marky's TV is a plasma, not a LCD, and it's 1024 x 768
(16:0) which
means it has non-square pixels. If he were to pick a
"widescreen" PC
display mode (eg 1366 x 768) I'm not sure what would happen...
It would display correctly I imagine, albeit with reduced
horizontal resolution; certainly the aspect ratio should be
correct.

I use that res on XP with a PDP-433MXE whose native res is
1024x768, with no problems.
I can't go any higher than 1024 x 768. My telly displays 'Not
Supported' :-( Bugger.

Mine's similar. So, I've connected it via the component output of
the graphics card (a nvidea), which has various utilities to output
at HD res, and an option to scale the picture. Looks pretty good to
me.

Rob
My graphics card only has S-video out,
Oh, well, no wonder then. Doesn't the TV have a vga, dvi or hdmi
input? How far is it from the PC?


I'm not using the S-video out, I'm using the monitor connection
straight to the PC socket on the telly. Oddly enough, the 50" version
on my telly supports the higher resolution, but I either have to
settle with 4:3 or stretched 16:9 (which is ok for newsgroups but not
pictures). Perhaps Windows Vista will have more options.

Marky P.


I'm not sure this 'native' thing can be done in software - the TV can
accept the resolution or it can't.

I'm in a similar position to you - I'd suggest getting a new video card
- the 6600GT with component out/720p I have does a decent job after a
lot of fiddling. Or perhaps one of the new HDMI cards once a few
reviews
are out:


http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...n=c2hvd19wcm9k
dWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3=&product_uid=113171&_LOC=UK


Rob

A review:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6199&page=4


That sounds ok. Not toooooo expensive. I may give it a go.

Marky P.

Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

Dave Farrance wrote:
Marky P wrote:

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:08:43 GMT, Dave Farrance wrote:
By PC socket, do you mean VGA, DVI-I, or DVI-D. The answer is different
depending on which it is.
It's just labelled PC, but I believe it is VGA.

Hmm. You don't sound very sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI_connector

If it is VGA, then that's an analogue connector, so the capability just
depends on the graphics card of the PC. You simply select a 16:9 ratio
such as 1366 x 768, and the TV won't know how many analogue pixels that
you chose because that information isn't preserved with an analogue
connector, so it should simply display the picture with the correct
ratio.


Tried that - it just doesn't work. The picture doesn't fit and the
nVidea software I use can't correct it. I don't know why - I agree that
it should, but I ended up using component HD 720p.

Rob

Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

Rob wrote:

Dave Farrance wrote:
If it is VGA, then that's an analogue connector, so the capability just
depends on the graphics card of the PC. You simply select a 16:9 ratio
such as 1366 x 768, and the TV won't know how many analogue pixels that
you chose because that information isn't preserved with an analogue
connector, so it should simply display the picture with the correct
ratio.

Tried that - it just doesn't work. The picture doesn't fit and the
nVidea software I use can't correct it. I don't know why - I agree that
it should, but I ended up using component HD 720p.

From which I assume that your nVidea card has a specific TV-out mode -
which means that it's in widescreen mode with 1280x720 pixels.

But I forgot that the speed at which the horizontal pixels are clocked
out of the graphics card is critical. If the connectors are analogue
(VGA, SCART or component) then the TV won't be able to map exactly 1:1
with the horizontal pixels because it won't know where they start and
end, so it'll rely on the timing of the left-to-right raster scan.

So if the TV is connected via an analogue connector, then it will only
work correctly if the graphics card has specific TV-out modes, which
might include widescreen and/or HDTV, which depends on how recent the
graphics card is.

--
Dave Farrance

Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

Dave Farrance wrote:
Rob wrote:

Dave Farrance wrote:
If it is VGA, then that's an analogue connector, so the capability just
depends on the graphics card of the PC. You simply select a 16:9 ratio
such as 1366 x 768, and the TV won't know how many analogue pixels that
you chose because that information isn't preserved with an analogue
connector, so it should simply display the picture with the correct
ratio.
Tried that - it just doesn't work. The picture doesn't fit and the
nVidea software I use can't correct it. I don't know why - I agree that
it should, but I ended up using component HD 720p.

From which I assume that your nVidea card has a specific TV-out mode -
which means that it's in widescreen mode with 1280x720 pixels.

But I forgot that the speed at which the horizontal pixels are clocked
out of the graphics card is critical. If the connectors are analogue
(VGA, SCART or component) then the TV won't be able to map exactly 1:1
with the horizontal pixels because it won't know where they start and
end, so it'll rely on the timing of the left-to-right raster scan.

So if the TV is connected via an analogue connector, then it will only
work correctly if the graphics card has specific TV-out modes, which
might include widescreen and/or HDTV, which depends on how recent the
graphics card is.


Ah - good point. I think when I tried it it 'sort of figured' that it
was a PC monitor. I don't remember a TV mode option, but I'll have
another look. Thanks for that.

Rob

Slightly o/t: PC on widescreen telly
 

Rob wrote:

Dave Farrance wrote:
...
So if the TV is connected via an analogue connector, then it will only
work correctly if the graphics card has specific TV-out modes, which
might include widescreen and/or HDTV, which depends on how recent the
graphics card is.

Ah - good point. I think when I tried it it 'sort of figured' that it
was a PC monitor. I don't remember a TV mode option, but I'll have
another look. Thanks for that.

Hmm. Of course, if the TV is smart enough, then it might behave like a
monitor rather than a TV when it's connected to a PC. A monitor can
communicate its available modes to the PC - and the Windows driver would
only present options to the user that were common to both the graphics
card and the monitor. Sometimes this doesn't work too well and some
drivers allow this restriction to be manually overridden. More control
over the graphics card is often available if you download the latest
driver from the manufacturer's website.

--
Dave Farrance