Drax (TOT)
 

Other discussions have touched on the Drax protest. I just thought I ought
to pass on something from this morning's paper.

"Their campaign against CO2 is is a vehicle for a much more radical
political agenda, however. "Our movement is based on questioning the whole
basis of economic growth" said Robbie Madden . . ."

So there we have it, they've admitted it. The environmental bandwagon is
riddled with scumbags who want to undermine society and have us all living
in caves. The same scumbags who have found shelter over the years in various
extreme left political parties, the CND, various anti-racist movements, etc.
So many good causes have been taken over by these nutters and have lost all
credibility as a result.

Another quote: We want to make people realise that driving a big 4x4 in town
is as socially unacceptable as drink-driving." Now that really is evidence
of someone that's lost touch with reality.

What with the commie/anarchist brigade and the achingly unpleasant middle
class puritan-style hypocritcal do-gooders, whose greatest pleasure is to
tell the rest of us how to live our lives, the environmental movement is
just about buggered. The reasonable people are clearly in a small minority,
and their voices will soon be drowned out by the lunatic majority.

Who will fight the environmental cause when the nutters have got the backs
up all normal decent people?

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in
:


"Their campaign against CO2 is is a vehicle for a much more radical
political agenda, however. "Our movement is based on questioning the
whole basis of economic growth" said Robbie Madden . . ."

While I agree with your thoughts about these people, I think the basic
problem is population growth, which necessarily causes economic growth,
which is all going to end, unless reversed, in unimaginable disaster.

In the mean time, we all get more enraged with each other; I've given up on
humanity fiding it's own way out of this mess, and find all the strident
groups, pushing whatever theories, equally objectionable.

It's why I prefer to spend time here and in uk.d-i-y, where I can forget
all that....


.....or can I?

mike

Drax (TOT)
 

Mike Henry wrote:
Yep. An excellent programme on FXUK called "Penn and Teller: Bull****"
pointed this out about Greenpeace. Its founder, interviewed on the
programme, said that he left because it had been taken over by the
nutters.

Without wishing to comment on the views of Patrick Moore (no, not *that*
one), in the interests of accuracy I should point out that he is a former
*director* of Greenpeace, having joined it in 1971 as a "founding member".
He certainly isn't *the* founder. And he left the organisation 20 years
ago...

Drax (TOT)
 

"mike" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Bill Wright" wrote in
:


"Their campaign against CO2 is is a vehicle for a much more radical
political agenda, however. "Our movement is based on questioning the
whole basis of economic growth" said Robbie Madden . . ."

While I agree with your thoughts about these people, I think the basic
problem is population growth, which necessarily causes economic growth,
which is all going to end, unless reversed, in unimaginable disaster.

Yes, and population growth is caused by immigration. Sucessive governments
have let us all down badly here, allowing so many people to enter the
country. It would be fine if the people coming in were selected on grounds
of ability -- they would work hard and help the economy -- but let's be
honest we now have ghettos of people who are as bad as the white trailer
trash that have long been the curse of this country. What's more, a lot of
these people are completely alienated from mainstream society and owe no
allegance to this country whatsoever. Their birthrate is far higher than
that of the general population and frankly I don't think the UK will be a
nice place to live in 30 years.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 20:42:14 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

So there we have it, they've admitted it. The environmental bandwagon is
riddled with scumbags who want to undermine society and have us all living
in caves. The same scumbags who have found shelter over the years in various
extreme left political parties, the CND, various anti-racist movements, etc.
So many good causes have been taken over by these nutters and have lost all
credibility as a result.

I wondered about this. In fact it wouldn't be hard to imagine a
situation where those who felt threatened by such organisation,
deliberately encouraged radical, ignorant and anti-social members to
join until the whole organization collapsed in on itself.

What with the commie/anarchist brigade and the achingly unpleasant middle
class puritan-style hypocritcal do-gooders, whose greatest pleasure is to
tell the rest of us how to live our lives, the environmental movement is
just about buggered. The reasonable people are clearly in a small minority,
and their voices will soon be drowned out by the lunatic majority.

I think a lot of these people enjoy their ignorance. It's like a
religion to them - give them facts and they feel threatened as they
may have to reassess their entire reason for being and purpose of
life.

Typical example (to keep vaguely on topic), mobile phone masts. These
days every man, woman and child seems to have a phone and these
transmit with varying power depending on distance from the cell-site.

The best thing you can do to reduce your RF exposure is to be close to
a base station (inverse-square law etc), so what do the nimbys do -
try to ban mobile masts near schools, therefor potentially exposing
everyone with a mobile phone in the area to higher average RF fields!

I've even heard of mast protests organised by mobile phone!

Rgds
Jonathan

Drax (TOT)
 

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 01:21:22 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

Yes, and population growth is caused by immigration. Sucessive governments
have let us all down badly here, allowing so many people to enter the
country. It would be fine if the people coming in were selected on grounds
of ability -- they would work hard and help the economy -- but let's be

Actually, most of the immigration IS that kind of person. The problem
is that we as a country are actually benefiting in the short term, at
the expense of other countries!

In the future, this source of cheap and skilled workers will dry up
and since a lot of today's "youth" in this country feel it beneath
them to do anything that's not media or office related, at that point
we really will be up the creak - having come to depend on immigration
as a source of cheap labour.

The real immigration scandal is just how hard it can be for people
outside the EU to legitimately visit and stay in this country. I've
direct experience of the "racism" in the UK immigration service for a
relative who was due to visit us from Zimbabwe to stay for a few
months (due to the situation there). They held her for a day at
Heathrow while my wife and baby waited the whole time in the terminal,
not knowing why she'd not been cleared. When we eventually found out,
no amount of personal guarantees etc would satisfy the immigration
staff and they held her and forced her to leave on the next flight
(with no refund of course). This was apparently because she was
nervous when talking to them - as you might expect for someone leaving
a dictatorship for the first time and then being interrogated by UK
government officials. We wrote letters to MPs etc but of course by
that time she'd been returned to Zimbabwe and placed in much more
danger than originally the case.

So there you go, rant over. My experience of UK immigration policy is
one of "institutional racism" (of the "they're not from around here"
type), bullying and I suspect, one of keeping numbers low by rejecting
the most vulnerable. Yes we've been let down by immigration policy but
certainly not in the way you imply.

honest we now have ghettos of people who are as bad as the white trailer
trash that have long been the curse of this country. What's more, a lot of
these people are completely alienated from mainstream society and owe no

I believe you get this phenomena in any society, but I suspect given
the numbers of immigrants we've seen in recent years that the
percentage like this is much lower than the UK average.

allegance to this country whatsoever. Their birthrate is far higher than
that of the general population and frankly I don't think the UK will be a

Birthrates do appear higher in deprived areas, ironically life
expectancy is shorter as well. That's due to "poverty", this can be
self imposed or due to outside influences, but it's not a reason in
itself to critisise the people involved.

nice place to live in 30 years.

I think Blair is doing a fine job of turning this country in to the
cesspool of Europe. Cameras on every corner, the removal of the
justice system and mob rule all appear to be part of his founding
polices. If he can blame a few of his troubles on "immigrants" i'm
sure he'll jump on it. To be quite honest the UK is not a pleasant
place compared to much of western europe now - let alone in 30 years.

Rgds
Jonathan

Drax (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Bill Wright" wrote in
:


"Their campaign against CO2 is is a vehicle for a much more radical
political agenda, however. "Our movement is based on questioning the
whole basis of economic growth" said Robbie Madden . . ."

While I agree with your thoughts about these people, I think the basic
problem is population growth, which necessarily causes economic growth,
which is all going to end, unless reversed, in unimaginable disaster.

Yes, and population growth is caused by immigration. Sucessive governments
have let us all down badly here, allowing so many people to enter the
country. It would be fine if the people coming in were selected on grounds

Where are you at Bill!?

"population growth" refers to *world* population growth, that's the
problem, not our little (somewhat overcrowded) country.

--
Chris Green

Drax (TOT)
 

Drax (TOT)
 

Ivan wrote:

Bill obviously means the population growth of the UK, which in my lifetime
has increased from 50 million to 60 million, despite a declining birthrate.

And the world population has increased from 3 billion to 6 billion in
my lifetime, which I think is pretty shocking ...

Drax (TOT)
 

....snip...
Another quote: We want to make people realise that driving a big 4x4 in
town
is as socially unacceptable as drink-driving." Now that really is evidence
of someone that's lost touch with reality.

Sorry Bill but I have to disagree here. For those of you who live or worok
in rural areas, own 4x4s and really need them, I have no problems. And
clearly there will be times where you drive through town and again, no
problem at all because its better you have one car than a second "just for
town".

However London is full of "Chelsea tractors" with no ground clearence,
pristine paintwork and normally driven by a "footballer's wife" who is
concentrating on not smearing her makeup whilst talking on her non-handsfree
mobile phone. Ask my wife (who walks our chidren a whole mile to school
each morning much to other peoples' amazement!) which type of vehicles
screams around corners with no indicators and clog up our small roads
because they are too far important to ever give way, typically resulting in
gridlock because two of these monsters don't fit down our narrow streets.

Sorry, but most of these owners have no need for these monsters - it's
just - umm, what's the female equivalent of penis envy?

Paul DS.

Drax (TOT)
 

mike wrote:
"Bill Wright" wrote in
:

"Their campaign against CO2 is is a vehicle for a much more radical
political agenda, however. "Our movement is based on questioning the
whole basis of economic growth" said Robbie Madden . . ."

While I agree with your thoughts about these people, I think the basic
problem is population growth, which necessarily causes economic growth,
which is all going to end, unless reversed, in unimaginable disaster.

You're 200+ years too late with that theory...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Malthus

Cheers,
David.

Drax (TOT)
 

Paul D.Smith wrote:
...snip...
Another quote: We want to make people realise that driving a big 4x4 in
town
is as socially unacceptable as drink-driving." Now that really is evidence
of someone that's lost touch with reality.

Sorry Bill but I have to disagree here. For those of you who live or worok
in rural areas, own 4x4s and really need them, I have no problems. And
clearly there will be times where you drive through town and again, no
problem at all because its better you have one car than a second "just for
town".

However London is full of "Chelsea tractors" with no ground clearence,
pristine paintwork and normally driven by a "footballer's wife" who is
concentrating on not smearing her makeup whilst talking on her non-handsfree
mobile phone. Ask my wife (who walks our chidren a whole mile to school
each morning much to other peoples' amazement!) which type of vehicles
screams around corners with no indicators and clog up our small roads
because they are too far important to ever give way, typically resulting in
gridlock because two of these monsters don't fit down our narrow streets.

Sorry, but most of these owners have no need for these monsters - it's
just - umm, what's the female equivalent of penis envy?

I think it's called penis envy. Didn't Freud term this phrase ad it
was something women were supposed to have due to a lack of penises
(peni??).

Personally I have now problems in this area being as I have more
penises than the average man :=))

Mr Zikki Malambo DOD 6809

Drax (TOT)
 

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
...snip...
Another quote: We want to make people realise that driving a big 4x4 in
town
is as socially unacceptable as drink-driving." Now that really is
evidence
of someone that's lost touch with reality.

Sorry Bill but I have to disagree here. For those of you who live or
worok in rural areas, own 4x4s and really need them, I have no problems.
And clearly there will be times where you drive through town and again, no
problem at all because its better you have one car than a second "just for
town".

However London is full of "Chelsea tractors" with no ground clearence,
pristine paintwork and normally driven by a "footballer's wife" who is
concentrating on not smearing her makeup whilst talking on her
non-handsfree mobile phone. Ask my wife (who walks our chidren a whole
mile to school each morning much to other peoples' amazement!) which type
of vehicles screams around corners with no indicators and clog up our
small roads because they are too far important to ever give way, typically
resulting in gridlock because two of these monsters don't fit down our
narrow streets.

Sorry, but most of these owners have no need for these monsters - it's
just - umm, what's the female equivalent of penis envy?


Don't know if Bill was actually sticking up for 4x4s in towns, many people
think they are an un-necessary burden on already crowded city streets, but
'as socially unacceptable as drink-driving' ...? Come on, not really in
the same ballpark!

Chris.

Drax (TOT)
 

wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
Where are you at Bill!?

"population growth" refers to *world* population growth, that's the
problem, not our little (somewhat overcrowded) country.

I'm concerned about population growth in this country. Population growth is
controllable, so it's up to each nation state. Just because foreigners can't
sort the problem out doesn't mean we shouldn't.There's too much of the 'it's
a world problem so we can't do anything about it' mentality.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"Ivan" wrote in message
.uk...
wrote:

Bill obviously means the population growth of the UK, which in my lifetime
has increased from 50 million to 60 million, despite a declining
birthrate.


Yes and it's long overdue that it was sorted out. We can't turn back the
clock, but we can start now with a complete ban on immigration except for
people whose skills we need. Furthermore we should ban totally people from
cultures which we know from experience will cause them to make no attempt to
integrate into mainstream society. The growth of ghettos full of alienated
people is a great danger.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
...snip...
Another quote: We want to make people realise that driving a big 4x4 in
town
is as socially unacceptable as drink-driving." Now that really is
evidence
of someone that's lost touch with reality.

Sorry Bill but I have to disagree here. For those of you who live or
worok in rural areas, own 4x4s and really need them, I have no problems.
And clearly there will be times where you drive through town and again, no
problem at all because its better you have one car than a second "just for
town".

However London is full of "Chelsea tractors" with no ground clearence,
pristine paintwork and normally driven by a "footballer's wife" who is
concentrating on not smearing her makeup whilst talking on her
non-handsfree mobile phone. Ask my wife (who walks our chidren a whole
mile to school each morning much to other peoples' amazement!) which type
of vehicles screams around corners with no indicators and clog up our
small roads because they are too far important to ever give way, typically
resulting in gridlock because two of these monsters don't fit down our
narrow streets.

Sorry, but most of these owners have no need for these monsters - it's
just - umm, what's the female equivalent of penis envy?

None of this I dispute. I think urban 4x4 drivers are prats (although I
defend their right be be prats). But read what I said. OK, which would you
rather meet on the road, a 4x4 or a drunken driver? No contest is it?

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"ChrisM" wrote in message
...
Don't know if Bill was actually sticking up for 4x4s in towns, many people
think they are an un-necessary burden on already crowded city streets, but
'as socially unacceptable as drink-driving' ...? Come on, not really in
the same ballpark!

Exactly. 4x4 drivers are generally *******, but they are far better than
drunken drivers.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

....snip...
None of this I dispute. I think urban 4x4 drivers are prats (although I
defend their right be be prats). But read what I said. OK, which would you
rather meet on the road, a 4x4 or a drunken driver? No contest is it?

Bill

Take your point. It didn't jump out at me when I first read your e-mail but
then it is Monday morning ;-).

That said, the way 4x4s charge around here ignoring traffic lights and
failing to bother with anything as mundane as indicators, the only visible
difference between them and many drunk-drivers is the time of day in which
you see them. But of course that probably says far more about the person
driving than the vehicle.

Paul DS.

Drax (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:
"Ivan" wrote in message
.uk...
wrote:

Bill obviously means the population growth of the UK, which in my
lifetime has increased from 50 million to 60 million, despite a
declining birthrate.


Yes and it's long overdue that it was sorted out. We can't turn back
the clock, but we can start now with a complete ban on immigration
except for people whose skills we need. Furthermore we should ban
totally people from cultures which we know from experience will cause
them to make no attempt to integrate into mainstream society. The
growth of ghettos full of alienated people is a great danger.



I've just been listening to a national radio phone-in about the state a
modern-day politics, the host said that he was 'absolutely horrified' by the
amount of phone calls and text messages that he had received from people
saying that they were so fed up and disillusioned by the current political
parties, that they next intended to vote BNP wherever possible.

Doing a similar job yourself, I come into contact with a good cross section
of the general public on a daily basis, and I'm sorry to say that I'm
beginning to hear increasing amounts of people voicing similar opinions.




Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...

"ChrisM" wrote in message
...
Don't know if Bill was actually sticking up for 4x4s in towns, many
people think they are an un-necessary burden on already crowded city
streets, but 'as socially unacceptable as drink-driving' ...? Come on,
not really in the same ballpark!


4x4 drivers are generally *******,

My sentiments exactly, and much better put than my 'un-necessary burden on
crowded city streets' !! ;-))
Disclaimer: I don't include people that NEED to have a 4x4 in the above.
Though some farmers I've met have also been ******* (but not because of the
car they drive)

Drax (TOT)
 

ChrisM wrote:

Don't know if Bill was actually sticking up for 4x4s in towns, many people
think they are an un-necessary burden on already crowded city streets, but
'as socially unacceptable as drink-driving' ...? Come on, not really in
the same ballpark!

Quite possibly not, but it isn't obvious. When figuring out the answer
you need to take into account not just pollution & congestion but also
safety to the driver & pedestrians. For one thing, bull bars kill at
much lower speeds.

See for example:

http://www.normanbaker.org.uk/downloads/4x4Report.doc

and also

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...166175,00.html

--
Michael
m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t

Drax (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:
"mike" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Bill Wright" wrote in
:

"Their campaign against CO2 is is a vehicle for a much more radical
political agenda, however. "Our movement is based on questioning the
whole basis of economic growth" said Robbie Madden . . ."

While I agree with your thoughts about these people, I think the basic
problem is population growth, which necessarily causes economic growth,
which is all going to end, unless reversed, in unimaginable disaster.

Yes, and population growth is caused by immigration. Sucessive governments
have let us all down badly here, allowing so many people to enter the
country. It would be fine if the people coming in were selected on grounds
of ability --

[snip]

It's my understanding generally that has been the case, which totally
undermines your objections. An account which fits with my own
understanding, more or less, can be read he
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4203587.stm

It also fits with my expectations of people & more so governments. They
may be incompetent, but generally not as incompetent as self interested
& certainly not prone to acting out of a sense of duty or moral right;
thus if there's an influx of immigrants one can be reasonably sure it's
as someone here wants them for something.

All IMHO.

--
Michael
m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t

Drax (TOT)
 

Ivan wrote:
wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Bill Wright" wrote in
:


"Their campaign against CO2 is is a vehicle for a much more radical
political agenda, however. "Our movement is based on questioning
the whole basis of economic growth" said Robbie Madden . . ."

While I agree with your thoughts about these people, I think the
basic problem is population growth, which necessarily causes
economic growth, which is all going to end, unless reversed, in
unimaginable disaster.

Yes, and population growth is caused by immigration. Sucessive
governments have let us all down badly here, allowing so many people
to enter the country. It would be fine if the people coming in were
selected on grounds

Where are you at Bill!?

"population growth" refers to *world* population growth, that's the
problem, not our little (somewhat overcrowded) country.

Bill obviously means the population growth of the UK, which in my lifetime
has increased from 50 million to 60 million, despite a declining birthrate.

Yes, but I'm quite sure the original posting was about world
population, it's that is the problem.

--
Chris Green

Drax (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:

"Ivan" wrote in message
.uk...
wrote:

Bill obviously means the population growth of the UK, which in my lifetime
has increased from 50 million to 60 million, despite a declining
birthrate.


Yes and it's long overdue that it was sorted out. We can't turn back the
clock, but we can start now with a complete ban on immigration except for
people whose skills we need. Furthermore we should ban totally people from
cultures which we know from experience will cause them to make no attempt to
integrate into mainstream society. The growth of ghettos full of alienated
people is a great danger.

This is just playing Little Britain, the growth of world population
swamps our problem (if there is one). If the worlds overpopulation
was dealt with then there wouldn't be the pressures on ours.

--
Chris Green

Drax (TOT)
 

"JC" wrote in message
...

I think Blair is doing a fine job of turning this country in to the
cesspool of Europe. Cameras on every corner, the removal of the
justice system and mob rule all appear to be part of his founding
polices. If he can blame a few of his troubles on "immigrants" i'm
sure he'll jump on it. To be quite honest the UK is not a pleasant
place compared to much of western europe now - let alone in 30 years.

And yet 600,000 immigrants per year prefer to settle here rather than
anywhere else in europe.

(kim)

Drax (TOT)
 

" wrote in
oups.com:


You're 200+ years too late with that theory...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Malthus

Yup, I didn't claim originality!

And referring to another source, when I was at school in the fifties, I was
told that the population of the world was 3 thousand million (we used
proper numbers then) and the teachers sucked their teeth and implied it was
far too many and there'd be tears before bedtime.

I believe them

mike

Drax (TOT)
 

"Michael Rozdoba" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
"mike" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Bill Wright" wrote in
:

"Their campaign against CO2 is is a vehicle for a much more radical
political agenda, however. "Our movement is based on questioning the
whole basis of economic growth" said Robbie Madden . . ."

While I agree with your thoughts about these people, I think the basic
problem is population growth, which necessarily causes economic growth,
which is all going to end, unless reversed, in unimaginable disaster.

Yes, and population growth is caused by immigration. Sucessive
governments
have let us all down badly here, allowing so many people to enter the
country. It would be fine if the people coming in were selected on
grounds
of ability --

[snip]

It's my understanding generally that has been the case, which totally
undermines your objections. An account which fits with my own
understanding, more or less, can be read he
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4203587.stm

It also fits with my expectations of people & more so governments. They
may be incompetent, but generally not as incompetent as self interested
& certainly not prone to acting out of a sense of duty or moral right;
thus if there's an influx of immigrants one can be reasonably sure it's
as someone here wants them for something.

For sure. Skinflint employers who refuse to pay a decent living wage want
them for cheap labour. They'd employ orphans or slaves if they could but
that's illegal. Peugot in Coventry employed mentally handicapped people to
assemble its components. They were paid 30p per day and were threatened with
loss of their disability benefit if they refused.

(kim)

Drax (TOT)
 

mike wrote:
" wrote in
oups.com:

You're 200+ years too late with that theory...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Malthus

Yup, I didn't claim originality!

And referring to another source, when I was at school in the fifties, I was
told that the population of the world was 3 thousand million (we used
proper numbers then) and the teachers sucked their teeth and implied it was
far too many and there'd be tears before bedtime.

When's bedtime 'cos I have to be up in the morning?

--
Michael
m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t

Drax (TOT)
 

Michael Rozdoba wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:

Yes, and population growth is caused by immigration. Sucessive governments
have let us all down badly here, allowing so many people to enter the
country. It would be fine if the people coming in were selected on grounds
of ability --

[snip]

It's my understanding generally that has been the case, which totally
undermines your objections. An account which fits with my own
understanding, more or less, can be read he
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4203587.stm

It also fits with my expectations of people & more so governments. They
may be incompetent, but generally not as incompetent as self interested
& certainly not prone to acting out of a sense of duty or moral right;
thus if there's an influx of immigrants one can be reasonably sure it's
as someone here wants them for something.

You would have to be quite naive to believe that _everyone_ who comes
here "because we need their skills" actually comes here because we need
their skills! I'm sure most do, but I've seen nepotism on a shocking
scale.

The oft quoted "jobs which native people won't do" seems nonsense to me
as well. There seem to be plenty of English people doing nothing and
expecting the state to keep them. I'm sure they're quite capable of
being cleaners etc, so that's what they should do. Then we can all pay
less tax, and have fewer people/houses/cars etc. OTOH it may be the
people who come from other countries to be cleaners are "better people"
than some of those already here, in which case, we should do a swap!

Cheers,
David.

Drax (TOT)
 

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
That said, the way 4x4s charge around here ignoring traffic lights and
failing to bother with anything as mundane as indicators, the only visible
difference between them and many drunk-drivers is the time of day in which
you see them. But of course that probably says far more about the person
driving than the vehicle.

If I had to generalise I would say the worst drivers nowadays are young
women.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"Ivan" wrote in message
k...
I've just been listening to a national radio phone-in about the state a
modern-day politics, the host said that he was 'absolutely horrified' by
the
amount of phone calls and text messages that he had received from people
saying that they were so fed up and disillusioned by the current political
parties, that they next intended to vote BNP wherever possible.

Doing a similar job yourself, I come into contact with a good cross
section
of the general public on a daily basis, and I'm sorry to say that I'm
beginning to hear increasing amounts of people voicing similar opinions.

If the media and the politicians continue to ignore the concerns of ordinary
people about immigration the extremist parties will benefit, and then we
really will be up **** creek. It's time we forgot political correctness and
had a proper debate. Politicians are scared to death of being called
racists.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"ChrisM" wrote in message
...

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
...snip...
Another quote: We want to make people realise that driving a big 4x4 in
town
is as socially unacceptable as drink-driving." Now that really is
evidence
of someone that's lost touch with reality.

Sorry Bill but I have to disagree here. For those of you who live or
worok in rural areas, own 4x4s and really need them, I have no problems.
And clearly there will be times where you drive through town and again,
no
problem at all because its better you have one car than a second "just
for
town".

However London is full of "Chelsea tractors" with no ground clearence,
pristine paintwork and normally driven by a "footballer's wife" who is
concentrating on not smearing her makeup whilst talking on her
non-handsfree mobile phone. Ask my wife (who walks our chidren a whole
mile to school each morning much to other peoples' amazement!) which
type
of vehicles screams around corners with no indicators and clog up our
small roads because they are too far important to ever give way,
typically
resulting in gridlock because two of these monsters don't fit down our
narrow streets.

Sorry, but most of these owners have no need for these monsters - it's
just - umm, what's the female equivalent of penis envy?


Don't know if Bill was actually sticking up for 4x4s in towns, many people
think they are an un-necessary burden on already crowded city streets, but
'as socially unacceptable as drink-driving' ...? Come on, not really in
the same ballpark!

When people die from respiratory problems as a result of the drop in air
quality during warm weather created by vehicle emissions, then 4x4's are in
a similar category to drunk drivers.

(kim)

Drax (TOT)
 

wrote in message
...
This is just playing Little Britain, the growth of world population
swamps our problem (if there is one). If the worlds overpopulation
was dealt with then there wouldn't be the pressures on ours.

All we need to do is keep the buggers out. There isn't an overpopulation
problem at the Ritz because they don't let all and sundry in. It ain't
rocket science.

They want to come here because this country is a soft touch. NHS, welfare,
God knows what. They don't come here for our benefit.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
...snip...
Another quote: We want to make people realise that driving a big 4x4 in
town
is as socially unacceptable as drink-driving." Now that really is
evidence
of someone that's lost touch with reality.

Sorry Bill but I have to disagree here. For those of you who live or
worok
in rural areas, own 4x4s and really need them, I have no problems.

I've got news for you. In some UK towns the roads are in such a poor state
of repair they can only be safely negotiated in a 4x4. 'Pothole City' is a
phrase which comes to mind.

(kim)

Drax (TOT)
 

"kim" wrote in message
...
"ChrisM" wrote in message
...
When people die from respiratory problems as a result of the drop in air
quality during warm weather created by vehicle emissions, then 4x4's are
in
a similar category to drunk drivers.

By that logic the following are also branded as murderers:
everyone who flies in a plane
everyone who drives anywhere for social or pleasure reasons

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

Drax (TOT)
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Michael Rozdoba wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:

Yes, and population growth is caused by immigration. Sucessive
governments
have let us all down badly here, allowing so many people to enter the
country. It would be fine if the people coming in were selected on
grounds
of ability --

[snip]

It's my understanding generally that has been the case, which totally
undermines your objections. An account which fits with my own
understanding, more or less, can be read he
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4203587.stm

It also fits with my expectations of people & more so governments. They
may be incompetent, but generally not as incompetent as self interested
& certainly not prone to acting out of a sense of duty or moral right;
thus if there's an influx of immigrants one can be reasonably sure it's
as someone here wants them for something.

You would have to be quite naive to believe that _everyone_ who comes
here "because we need their skills" actually comes here because we need
their skills! I'm sure most do, but I've seen nepotism on a shocking
scale.

The oft quoted "jobs which native people won't do" seems nonsense to me
as well. There seem to be plenty of English people doing nothing and
expecting the state to keep them. I'm sure they're quite capable of
being cleaners etc, so that's what they should do.

They would certainly do those jobs if they were paid the same kind of money
as the people who think they should do those jobs. Also, whereas the first
generation of immigrants may be willing to do them, their offspring most
certainly won't so we are then back to the same situation as before only
worse.

(kim)

Drax (TOT)
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...

"kim" wrote in message
...
"ChrisM" wrote in message
...
When people die from respiratory problems as a result of the drop in air
quality during warm weather created by vehicle emissions, then 4x4's are
in
a similar category to drunk drivers.

By that logic the following are also branded as murderers:
everyone who flies in a plane
everyone who drives anywhere for social or pleasure reasons

It's not 'murder' in either case as there is no intention to kill. It is
merely a random and inevitable consequence of those actions.

(kim)

Drax (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:
wrote in message
...
This is just playing Little Britain, the growth of world population
swamps our problem (if there is one). If the worlds overpopulation
was dealt with then there wouldn't be the pressures on ours.

All we need to do is keep the buggers out. There isn't an
overpopulation problem at the Ritz because they don't let all and
sundry in. It ain't rocket science.

They want to come here because this country is a soft touch. NHS,
welfare, God knows what. They don't come here for our benefit.


Yet Blair is still religiously adhering to a 60 year-old asylum law, which
was introduced long before the days of mass air travel and was originally
intended to mop up a few tens of thousands of displaced white European
refugees.


Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:

wrote in message
...
This is just playing Little Britain, the growth of world population
swamps our problem (if there is one). If the worlds overpopulation
was dealt with then there wouldn't be the pressures on ours.

All we need to do is keep the buggers out. There isn't an overpopulation
problem at the Ritz because they don't let all and sundry in. It ain't
rocket science.

.... and you think that people who live in the Ritz shouldn't care
about the hoi polloi outside no doubt!

--
Chris Green