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On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:01:01 +0100, "kim" wrote:

When people die from respiratory problems as a result of the drop in air
quality during warm weather created by vehicle emissions, then 4x4's are in
a similar category to drunk drivers.

But someone in a Jag or Rolls-Royce using twice the fuel as a 4x4 and
creating twice the carbon emissions would be fine? What are you on
about?

Really, you're in no place to judge what or how another person chooses
their transport without the full facts. FWIW some 4x4s are more fuel
efficient than many luxury cars. While many 4x4s are seen on school
runs, that's often because they're the only vehicles that can fit 2
adults, 3 children, another friend and some shopping. They only need
to be full of people/shopping etc 1% of the time to make sense over a
Nissan Micra.

Personally I think people who eat beans are worse than drunks. They
cause a greater pollution and create more carbon dioxide. I'd like to
see anyone who's eaten beans banned from built up areas for 24 hours
and a tax of £ 25 per tin.

Rgds
Jonathan

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:25:35 +0100, "kim" wrote:

It's not 'murder' in either case as there is no intention to kill. It is
merely a random and inevitable consequence of those actions.

So what you're saying is that drink driving is ok?

Rgds
Jonathan

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:07:23 +0100, "kim" wrote:

I've got news for you. In some UK towns the roads are in such a poor state
of repair they can only be safely negotiated in a 4x4. 'Pothole City' is a
phrase which comes to mind.

Actually I was going to say the same thing. Down in Hampshire where I
spend a lot of time and where there's no public transport, a small car
is generally quite practical if you live on a main road. Here in West
London I've often thought of buying a 4x4 just to negotiate the
potholes, speed bumps and rubbish strewn roads.

Rgds
Jonathan

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 12:08:35 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

people whose skills we need. Furthermore we should ban totally people from
cultures which we know from experience will cause them to make no attempt to
integrate into mainstream society. The growth of ghettos full of alienated
people is a great danger.

Which cultures would those be then? ;-)

Rgds
Jonathan

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 19:01:55 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

No it's the UK we need to sort out. That's where we live. Would you go and
mend your neighbour's house if your own roof had been blown off?

No, but I know we'd offer each other a place to stay while the others
damaged roof was repaired.

Rgds
Jonathan

JC wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:07:23 +0100, "kim" wrote:

Actually I was going to say the same thing. Down in Hampshire where I
spend a lot of time and where there's no public transport,

Oh there is, except you need to summon it via a web site now.

http://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/services/transport/publictransport/cango.htm

(See how many trendy new buzz words you can spot in that link)

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 10:31:30 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
wrote:

However London is full of "Chelsea tractors" with no ground clearence,

"no ground clearance", that's not exactly a typical 4x4 trait.

pristine paintwork and normally driven by a "footballer's wife" who is

If they're used in town then there's no reason for them to be covered
in mud.

concentrating on not smearing her makeup whilst talking on her non-handsfree
mobile phone. Ask my wife (who walks our chidren a whole mile to school
each morning much to other peoples' amazement!) which type of vehicles
screams around corners with no indicators and clog up our small roads
because they are too far important to ever give way, typically resulting in

I hate to say it, but this sounds like a kind of jealousy. Seriously,
those same generalisations are made every day about drivers of many
other vehicles and all they serve to tell you are the prejudices of
the person making them .

gridlock because two of these monsters don't fit down our narrow streets.

Well the width of the average 4x4 appears to be similar to many other
vehicles and I can't say I've ever noticed this compared to most cars.
In fact one thing you can say for 4x4s is that they often have better
visibility than other vehicles, allowing the driver to avoid such
situations.

Sorry, but most of these owners have no need for these monsters - it's
just - umm, what's the female equivalent of penis envy?

Sorry but there are so many things in modern life that we have no true
need of, television be one I could mention to bring this vaguely on
topic.

The point is the you or I have no right to critisise others for their
choices if they're having no undue effect on others. I personally
could never justify driving a 4x4 (even though I drive in places where
my car got stuck several times and had to be pulled out by one),
however I know that for those who even occasionally carry extra people
or shopping etc, they can make real sense even in a city.

4x4s do use a LITTLE more fuel than smaller cars, though compared to
some luxury saloons they can seem quite frugal. They have good
visibility and clearance and usually plenty of seating and space.
Ironically they're more efficient and safer around town than, say, on
the motorway where a 4x4 can be extremely dangerous in the event of a
high speed avoiding maneuver. None of these things in my mind makes
them any better or worse than a brand new Mercedes or a clapped out
Nissan Micra. They're just a soft target for some pointless political
campaign, with unfortunately distracts people from the real issues.

Rgds
Jonathan

Pyriform wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
No it's the UK we need to sort out. That's where we live. Would you
go and mend your neighbour's house if your own roof had been blown
off?
This country is sliding into a multicultural morass.

I think you may have inadvertently swallowed a year's worth of Daily
Mail editorials, and this has caused your "Paul Dacre Righteous
Indignation Index" to rise to dangerous levels.

A few beers and some episodes of The Simpsons may help calm you down.

Couldn't possibly be that like myself and millions of others, that Bill
actually lives in the real world, and as he travels around he sees things
with his own eyes and hears things with his own ears, so therefore doesn't
have to rely on the Guardian and the BBC to try and draw an assessment about
what the real world is all about.

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:22:40 +0100, Mark Carver
wrote:

Oh there is, except you need to summon it via a web site now.
http://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/services/transport/publictransport/cango.htm

It's funny, I don't even think of Basingstoke as Hampshire - I believe
they have shops there as well.

I remember when I was a teenager about 20 years ago applying for a 9-5
job in Basingstoke. Then I realised there were about two buses a day
from Alton, one at 9.30am, the other returning at 4.30pm - and I had
no way to get to Alton anyway. I don't believe the service has
improved since then.

So, I'm in Wivelrod near Alton and the nearest bus stop is in Beech,
30 mins walk away over fields. I believe there's still a couple of
buses a day from there to Alton, though to be honest I always found it
quicker to walk straight to Alton as it's only just over an hours
walk. That's also where our nearest shops are, so a couple of hours
walk if you forget the milk, compared to 5 mins by car.

Once in Alton there are bus services between the major towns, though
some routes go all around the villages (both a good and bad thing) can
take a few hours hours. So a 10 mile journey that take 15-20 mins by
car is a minimum of 2 hours by bus including a 1 hour walk. In my
experience the buses are for recreational use only. Everyone I know
who's carless either begs a lift, calls a taxi or walks.

Rgds
Jonathan