Drax (TOT)
 

No.
Christian values give us unrestricted population growth, obscene misuse of
other animals, racism, hatred of Jews, support for ethnic cleansing,
intolerance, bigotry, anti-educational ideas, and a hatred of divergent
views.

What absolute drivel! That's the values of some NON Christain sects!

I'm with Bill 100%

[email protected]

Drax (TOT)
 

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
You may be misjudging people. The ancestors of those you are criticising
were
comparatively civilised in the Middle Ages. The didn't stand still - but
didn't recover from the blow inflicted on their intelligentsia by the
Mongols.

That's something I didn't know. I'll look that up.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
No, we always had an innate sense of fairness and justice. Cultural and
moral fashions change, but in this country we have a Christian heritage
that has given us a bedrock of sound values.

No.
Christian values give us unrestricted population growth, obscene misuse of
other animals, racism, hatred of Jews, support for ethnic cleansing,
intolerance, bigotry, anti-educational ideas, and a hatred of divergent
views.

You may be talking about christian values and heritage which has no real
connection with the religion of Christianity. There is no bedrock; the
good
bits of christian heritage have been added recently as old ideas have been
shown to be evil. Those who stick to the bedrock are dangerously nasty.

NB Good Christians tend also to shed the evils in their religion and are
also
good christians; but their are bad christians who consider themselves to
be
Good Christians because they retain the evil ideas.

And what about those of us who believe in humanity? Or at least, who believe
that humanity is all we've got, so we'd better make the best of it.That
means looking after each other, avoiding conflict wherever possible, and
generally adopting the values that are commonly thought of as 'Christian'.

I know organised religion has been largely highjacked over the centuries by
extremists, but Christ's original message is still pretty valid. And I'm an
atheist by the way.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
Of course we have more personal traditions but they must be consistent
within
the general traditions. Bill's criticisms are correct but need not be
phrased
as critical of any religious or ethnic group. What is entirely wrong is
support for views that destabilise the general standards that apply
without
seeking consent through accepted political means.

As Oscar Wilde remarked, "I wish I had said that."

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"ChrisM" wrote in message
...
Although you can have 15 Minor faults, 1 Dangerous or Serious fault and
you fail...
Mind you, even if they're only minor faults, 15 seems pretty generous.


Hil says I've got at least 15 serious faults, and that's when I'm not
driving.

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
I'm
surprised that anyone can accept the notion of one person being made
to suffer because of what someone else has done, simply because they
happen to share the same nationality, or religion, or any other
irrelevant category anyone cares to mention.

Sadly, it seems to be the way of the world. We are all discriminated against
one way or another as a result of generalisations about the behaviour of
others who share a characteristic, so much so that we take it for granted.
It doesn't even seem like discrimination.

Perfectly capable young drivers pay exhorbitant insurance premiums because
they share a quality (their age) with bad drivers.

My friend can't take things to the dumpit in his people carrier (which he
needs for his wheelchair) because other people in tall vehicles dump trade
waste.

The NHS restrict treatment for the elderly on the grounds they some of them
will die soon anyway. What about those that won't die soon?

Bill

Drax (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:

wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:

"Ivan" wrote in message
. uk...
A logical progression of what is already happening, is that in 50
years'
time there will hardly be a town or village which won't be dominated by
a
mosque, and most of the important social and political institutions of
this
country will have been largely infiltrated adherents of the Islamic
faith.

I've no doubt that we'll be foreigners in our own country.

Like everyone before use really.

Bill, I sort of used to like you but these recent tirades of yours
have changed my mind I'm afraid.

You were quoting someone else, mostly, by the way.

Sorry, so I was, at that point.


I'm sorry, but these issues worry me deeply. I'm not concerned about being
popular; I'd rather be honest. I think the lack of honestly about these
issues in the public debate has done a lot of damage. I'm not a racist and
I'm not zenophobic. I had a letter published in the local press recently
xenophobic

criticising Doncaster Council for a policy that betrayed their clumsy
attitude to race issues, in which I was effectively speaking for the local
Pakistani taxi drivers. I have considerable business and social contact with
members of various ethic groups. Incidentally, some of them are a lot more
worried than I am!

I love this fair land, and I don't want it to change for the worse.

I'm sorry but, to be quite honest, you come across as a bigotted,
grumpy old man. Maybe you aren't but it's very much the way you have
come across to me in this thread.

--
Chris Green

Drax (TOT)
 

Bill Wright wrote:

"JW" wrote in message
...
Michael Rozdoba wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
EU immigration doesn't seem to pose much of a threat to cultural values.
Most workers are young and intend to return to their countries of origin.
Cheap, fast communications mean it's no longer necessary to put down roots
at your workplace location. Nevertheless, there are always those who will
try to exploit it as a focus for the generalised unease (of the sort
expressed in this thread) that many people feel.

I've got no problem at all with immigrants as long as they accept that this
is our country not theirs, and make some attempt to integrate. I had a long

In what way is it 'our' country? It doesn't really belong to anyone,
it just is, and those who want to live here need to work out how to
jog along together if it's not to be an uncomfortable place to live.

--
Chris Green

Drax (TOT)
 

In article ,
Geoffers wrote:
No.
Christian values give us unrestricted population growth,
Go populate the world

obscene misuse of other animals,

You have control over the animals ...

racism,

Noah's sons populated the Earth

hatred of Jews,

Christ killers

support for ethnic cleansing,

Jericho &c

intolerance,

No other God's

bigotry,

Only such and such Christians would ever do such good work

anti-educational ideas,

The Earth was made in 6 days

and a hatred of divergent views.

repeat of above.

What absolute drivel! That's the values of some NON Christain sects!

All taken from comments made by members of major Christian denominations,
mainly quoting the Bible, and seen or heard by me personally over the last
few months.

I'm with Bill 100%

So am I.

--
John Cartmell [email protected] followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

Drax (TOT)
 

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
No, we always had an innate sense of fairness and justice. Cultural and
moral fashions change, but in this country we have a Christian heritage
that has given us a bedrock of sound values.

No.
Christian values give us unrestricted population growth, obscene misuse of
other animals, racism, hatred of Jews, support for ethnic cleansing,
intolerance, bigotry, anti-educational ideas, and a hatred of divergent
views.

You may be talking about christian values and heritage which has no real
connection with the religion of Christianity. There is no bedrock; the
good bits of christian heritage have been added recently as old ideas
have been shown to be evil. Those who stick to the bedrock are
dangerously nasty.

NB Good Christians tend also to shed the evils in their religion and are
also good christians; but their are bad christians who consider
themselves to be Good Christians because they retain the evil ideas.

And what about those of us who believe in humanity? Or at least, who
believe that humanity is all we've got, so we'd better make the best of
it.That means looking after each other, avoiding conflict wherever
possible, and generally adopting the values that are commonly thought of
as 'Christian'.

I'm with you 100%. Just pointing out that 'Christian' isn't necessarily good.

I know organised religion has been largely highjacked over the centuries by
extremists, but Christ's original message is still pretty valid. And I'm an
atheist by the way.

His message was hijacked early on. The Gospels include the anti-Jewish message
to placate their Roman audience. And anyone taking the Old Testament, without
cleaning it up with the New, will find lots of nasties that are commended.

--
John Cartmell [email protected] followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing