Home cinema - Lidl Satellite reciever etc. from 28th August

In article ,
Minty wrote:
Bill (Adopt) wrote:
In article ,
Paul D wrote:
[..]

Hi Bill, I'm another SL65 owner!

Hi, Andrew.. :))

[..]
As I mentioned, picked up the Stab HH90 very cheaply from
Maplins, only to find that, from each of two respected
satellite equipment manufacturers and/or installers, the HH90
as a motor is /not/ recommended!

Bill, why's that - I've got last years SL65 working with an HH90 driving a
Fortec Star 90cm dish now! Pulls in everything from 42E (Turksat) to 5E
(nothing on the west, but that's either my DIY setup or trees/bushes!)

It doesn't work! In my case the thing moved around
slightly, went back to zero - and then just 'shivered',
going nowhere fast, no matter what we tried! I now
understand - too late - that it's not by any means the
first time that this has been reported with this Stab
HH90 motor. Perhaps it's why Maplins had it on the
shelf at such an attractive price...

Following a fault finding telephone tour-de-force by
Myer Sat's Ryan which identified the Stab HH90 as probably
faulted - I then tested the HH90 using another, different
SL65 - known to be working with a new sat motor (belonging
to and in the company of my fiend, The TV Engineer).
Neither of the SL65s worked with my HH90...

My SL65 was then tested alongside his on /his/ new sat
motor and dish setup. Both worked without any problems...

Not to to belabour the point and, as stated earlier
given the present non-working Stab HH90 has now been
rejected, I've been advised against Stab's HH90 by
some very reputable people, including Comag Handels,
for precisely the reported problems that I have outlined.

Another well known Sat firm no longer carries the Stab HH90
in stock, for the precise reasons that I've mentioned above
and, perhaps, to avoid disappointing their customers...

This does not apparently apply to Stab's larger HH100
or the HH120 Stab motor which as I understand it continue
to supply excellent service to the quality end of that market.
Hopefully Stab is getting on top of this performance glitch,
even as we 'speak'...

Pity I'm just one of those suffering from this hiccup in
Stab's otherwise decent market history. I can't even use
that Italian motor to look at all those Italian ladies... ;))

...and today still suffering as well - nothing back from
Maplins as of yet. I've an unoccupied perpendicular bracket
holding up a large brick gable end - a hall full of offset,
asymmetrically solid, (non-rusting after three years of outdoor
hurricane force rain-soaked winds) LiDL dish and a so-lonely
SL65 - and all just waiting upon a nod from Maplins to join
together in ole!-rotorominy.. ;))

Whatever happened to the initiative of the local Maplin
shop manager and the concerned, willing, thoughtful and
so-helpful customer service??!

snip
In the event, the HH90 - which didn't work from the outset,
(didn't seem to know where it was going - and mostly sat
and 'shivered' at zero for the few hours we attempted to
work it), is now back with Maplin's for their assessment -
and my refund! Will then invest in a different motor - and
this time one that works, hopefully.

I had that issue with mine - it wasn't the motor, but the box overheating!!
My SL65 got really hot during the heatwave summer we had. I found pointing
a fan at it soon sorted it out and it could drive the motor with no
problems. I'm now trying to work out how to put a more permanent form of
cooling on it.

Can't answer that! Didn't even get to a sweat stage - but
do notice that the SL65 is rated at 350ma etc etc, as all
such DiSEqC boxes are, so there shouldn't really have been
a problem.. but that might vary with the individual box.
Perhaps you've just got a 'hot' one ..possibly a comment to
Comag here, or even directly to Comag Handels AG in Germany?

I get the feeling that they'd be both interested and concerned
to help you...

As I understand it, the SL65 only uses around 180ma in continual
use - ie, when it's moving the dish ..and a lot less in static
standby. It will use, briefly, a max surge at 350ma as the
motor first starts to move - but, not being an electrotechie,
I assume that this surge is normally covered in the mains-led
capacitor(s) ..or whatever...

Although my SL65 - at the time - was 'fixed dish', there didn't
appear to be any sign of overheating in the glorious 90deg+
heatwave. Piccy and sound remained as sharp, colourful and the
whole box as rapidly responsive and glitch free as I've become
used to with the SL65...

snip
However - and following these trial/tests with said friend (who
is, by the by, also a recently retired TV Engineer) and his
brand new SL65 which together with my SL65 that has not had,
as yet, any recent software update), we do believe that:

The SL65's USALS is 'good'. Simple to use. Set motor
on perpendicular pole/mount (very, very important for it
to be precisely perpendicular) - start off pointing directly
at/to true south, (here, in the northern hemisphere); motor to
the nearest satellite to true south - I believe recommended to
be Thor/Intel at 1W and ....make the coffee and get the
popcorn/biccies ready! The rest of the satellites should
come in automatically once their 'Edit Satellite' menus have
had their individual DiSEqC choice also set to 'Motor'.

Yup, I can confirm it all works very well!

snip
One thought - yet to be tested in my case - is that it could
be helpful to set your motorised channel menus to be sorted
on 'satellite', rather than 'channel' or anything else. Means
that within a band all your channels will be consecutively
renumbered for that satellite - the next band for the next
satellite ..and so on. This will help prevent making a channel
choice and having the dish flailing around the horizon - with,
possibly, the motor count becoming confused in the process.

You can download a channel sorter utility from Comag's website -
however you
can't change the order of the satellites! Grrr.

ooeerr..! ..for which reason the dish can flail around
unmercifully if, hopping through the channels, each next
choice is accompanied by another change of satellite and
rotor position...

Does your proggie, (which I think I picked up on the off
chance), assume the use of an insecure microsoft running pc?
Program is a bit lost on me, I'm afraid.. ;(,)

Using a secured RISC OS based machine. Naturally, quite
different.. ;'))

Incidentally, just to add to info, Tony Denyer - the GM (UK)
of Comag Handels Ag and the manufacturer/distributor of the
various flavours of LiDL's (Comag) SL65, recommends the use
of a Metronic's Sat Motor, among others, which he understands
works well with the SL65.

Any chance you can send me his contact details - I'd like to pass on my
comments about the SL65 and what a bargain it is!

:)) It is indeed! A true bargain, that is.. :))

Unfortunately, unless you wish to send me your email
address details privately (email as way above) - and
only if you're happy doing this - then I will be unable
to respond for the same reason that I don't appear to
have been able to contact Paul with those very same
details. Messages are returned as undeliverable.

I would, however, like to know if there's anywhere that archives
some info on satellite dishes. (Hard to find in Google)! Many,
perhaps most, consumer dishes are, these days, offset rather
than the large Goonhilly Down/Jodrell Bank type 'polar'(?) mounts.

Have you had a look at the forums on http://www.satellites.co.uk ?
You'll
see all my posts about the SL65 in there!!

uh huh! Much prefer Usenet's newsgroups! ;)) ..but then,
I first arrived on the scene way back in the last century,
perhaps even earlier in some respects.. Simple text things
were a whole lot easier to handle with slow, clunky, dial-up
modems - as many correspondents are still using, even today.

(Sir Tim's w3 didn't even rate a gleam in his CERN inspired
horizon-event timetravel brainwave at the time).

...and I rather remember using cuniform type wedges and
wet-clay tablets at the time! ..or was that carved potatoe
and powder paint print.. ;))

Unfortunately, there are just so many forums that mostly only
speak to a tiny, although to them select, clientele - and
even then only at the discretion of the forum - or list -
owner - not forgetting all the the multi-coloured, flashed
graphic, super-sound, cartoon-led, psychodelic and utterly
higgledy-piggledy presentations that look beautiful to a
reely kW3L site design-destructor...!

Dark blue writing on a black background, I find, is just
/so/ readable....

Ooops.. do I sound like a grumpy old flatulent fart! I must
share a peg or two with my contemporary, Mister Wrinkly Wright.. ;))

Not to worry - I'll certainly go and have a look, Minty, now
that you've mentioned it! ..and thank you.. :))

:))

Bill ZFC

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

In article ,
Paul D wrote:
Bill (Adopt) wrote:
In article ,
Paul D wrote:
Bill (Adopt) wrote:
In article ,
Paul D wrote:
Bill (Adopt) wrote:

snip

Bill, just curious - have you managed to motorise your dish
successfully, and if so how does it work with the SL65?

[..]
Thanks Bill. Pity the HH90 didn't cut the mustard. It will be
interesting to know how the motorisation goes when you finally
get a decent motor installed.

OK... this is a belated bit of catchup for any who are
still interested... (References to earlier articles
should be above, somewhere)...

Maplin's - bless their little cotton socks - came up
with the goods and refunded the non-working Stab motor.
This I replaced immediately with the other motor held
in stock by Maplin ..the Metronic Horizon to Horizon
motor, ref: 450907. (Although listed by Maplin as
suitable for dishes up to 1000mm - one metre - it's box
clearly states that it can be used for dishes of 1.2m
...so I guess an 82/85cm dish is well within capacity)...

In the event the whole - using the discrete USALS menu
that comes installed in the SL65's firmware - was a bit
of a non-event.. :)) Believe me, the setup could have
been installed in around 30 minutes or less, from start
to finish - and after a few weeks, is presently operating
very correctly..

...from the far easterly NSS 703 at 57E, (NKTV - the just
started and first-time Nepalese TV?? ...and in English,
no less!), to the number of East Russian quality channels
as found on Express AM22's 53E), to the far Atlantic
position of Cuba TV's - (and Ecuador's(?) Channel 5),
beamcast from PAS 9 at 58W...

This is about as Horizon to Horizon as it can get with a
smaller 82cm dish! Oh yes ..and not to forget all the
satellites littering the heavens between 57E and 58W... :))

...but ..to the nitty gritty - and starting at the start.
Writing this will take longer than the 'real-life'
installation actually took!

1. Read Bill Wright's excellent article warning
about aerial (take that as including dish)
installation horrors! Taking note of same.... ;))

Using a south facing wall - and having previously marked
out true south - using the shadow of the midday (12h00 GMT)
sun marked permanently on the path below. (Note, the
direction of true south will change slightly depending on
where you are located ..and it's /not/ the same as magnetic
south - although very near to it)...

2. ...mount installed and checked that it was
indeed a /very/ accurate perpendicular ..that
is, absoutely vertical to the ground in all
'directions'.

Although not needed, plenty of backing washers
were to hand to ensure that the backing plate
allowed the mounting pole to be adjusted to the
absolute perpendicular.

In the event, total time taken was no more than
a few minutes - albeit interspersed with tea!

This 'absolutely perpendicular' position was checked, re-
checked and then, when ready, checked yet again. I don't
think one can underestimate the importance of these two
basic operations. Everything else flows from this....

Without the perpendicularity of the mount, or that the
whole is aligned to /true south/ ..the motor and it's
attached dish cannot track the Clarke belt with all those
luvverly geo-stationary satellites accurately.

3. Metronic motor was then checked that it was indeed
at it's factory-set position of 0.00degrees. (It
was - but if not, this could be reset simply, on the
ground by connecting to and powering up from the
receiver, prior to mounting).

4. The motor was then bolted to it's backing mount,
ensuring that the Metronic very well written but
rather useless 'elevation' DiSEQc 1.2's settings
were ignored in favour of Stab's USALS 'Latitude'
setting not mentioned in the Metronic manual.

Difficult? ..not in the least! Metronic has kindly
marked latitude settings clearly on the other side
of it's 450907/8 sturdy metal backing plate.. :))

Oh yes ..acquired the precise latitude, (to the required
0.1 degree of the installation position), from www.multimap.com

5. The dish and motor were then bolted and aligned to
each other, so that the whole unit, (dish, mount and
motor), could be perfectly aligned to true south and
the highest part of the equatorial Clarke Belt 'arc'...

6. Shinning up the ladder, (or rather friend and retired
one time TV Engineer used to this, sort of!) ..the
motor and dish were then mounted on the perpendicular
'pole' and temporarily secured to the true south
position at 180.00degrees (..or in inaccurate Euro-
parlance, 0.00deg South)!

5. Leads from the LNB and the SL65 Receiver were then
connected ..resulting in one lead being remade as
the simple 3.99gbp satellite locator suggested a
slight fault in an 'F' plug lead ..obvious as the
thing started bleating plaintively!

6. The SL65's USALS installation menu was entered and
the installation's latitude, longitude was entered
for the Hotbird group at 13E ..(in this case and not
having the desirable Thor 1,2/ Intel 10-20's central
position at the highest 1W position pre-stored).

The auto-tune menu was then entered so that the rotor
arm with attached dish could be moved to it's new
position at 13E.

NB: It is vital that the rotor arm is moved to the
position of the (to be acquired) satellite nearest to
true south first, /before/ any 'tweaking', so that the
relative positions of all the satellites remains fixed
in relation to true south ..and not to a spurious setting...

7. Said friend then gently ..and slowly(!) ..tweaked
the dish slightly to and fro laterally and with a
minute adjustment to the marked elevation of 22.5deg
(it's an early LiDL 10degree offset dish), until the
strongest signal was being received, whistling through
the locator.

The whole unit was then tightened on it's nuts ..and
no, it didn't complain.

Now came the hardest and most complex bit of all - and
upon which the rest of the installation stands ..or falls!

Coffee was made ..and the TV watched, with admiration, as
many, varied, stored SL65 channels were in turn flicked through.. :))

...and that, folks, was basically 'it'!

Very quick followups was a check that Thor 1,2/Intel 10-20's
position at 1W was indeed being picked up satisfactorily ..a
pointer perhaps for Comag/LiDL's note that this satellite
position could be factory stored for a new User using the
USALS menus - if indeed this hasn't already been noted...

...oh and a check that the farthest reaches East and West do
in fact pick up as intended.. Turksat at 90pc 'strength' with
a 72pc 'quality' - and up to 95pc with 100pc 'quality' on the
'Dogan' transponder to the expected 95pc strength and 100pc
quality of the French channels of France 1,2,3,4 and 5 at
Atlantic Bird 3's position at 5W!

...and thus it has remained, despite some severe rainfalls, a
few very strong winds and some icicles... and the attentiion of
a very determined spider!

As it's all USALS, then positions that might be stored in the
motor are unused ..with USALS the first installation of latitude
and longitude entered into just one satellite position then stores
this position for reference in all (yet to be entered) satellite
positions - whether using auto or manually tuning...

It just takes time to go to each new satellite, grab what's
available, look with amazement at the size of some of the
things on offer ..and delete many thousands of the same ..to
end up with some entirely watchable channels.

One point ..when storing new channels, I've found it useful
to number each satellite from whatever in the East to whatever
you might be able to get in the West. This allows one to 'sort'
the channels by 'satellite' ..and is /very/ helpful in avoiding
the dish flailing from one horizon to the other and back again
when flicking through channels. If you don't know what I mean,
you soon will... ;))

Incidentally, with LiDL's accurate 82cm dish, (non-rusting
after three years off weather-worn prior installation), there
is a quite a noticeable difference between the almost identical
positioning of Eurobird 1 at 28.5E and Astra 2D at 28.2E..!
These positions are often thought of as being the same.. but
in fact the channels downlinked from one position may not
necessarily be repeated in the other ..even if the two are
less than a nominal 0.3degree twitch away from each other...

By the bye.. all positions are being relayed through a very
successful LiDL 3.99gbp 0.6 LNB, with very acceptable digital
piccies in brilliant colour etc etc. The sensitivity of
Comag/LiDL's SL65 may yet become legendary!

Cost of motor.. 59.95gbp, inc vat. Cost of box, 39.95gbp inc
vat in June 2005, (it's the fully spec'd one). Cost of dish
...um, it came with an initial analogue kit c. 2002 at 39.00gbp
...but would now be 14.99gbp as a LiDL separate, including all
'F' plugs, 20 metres of quality cabling, digital satellite
locator with earpiece etc etc etc...

...in all, around a digital installation total of 100.00gbp
(115.00gbp with added dish), spread over three years...

I'm well pleased :))

...but do wonder at all the complex DiSEqC 1.00/1.2 setups,
calculations, elevations, declinations and vast amounts of
diagrams et al, when most if not all modern receivers now
have the free, freely available and so easy USALS (Universal
Satellite Automatic Locating Setup) on board, whereby the
software does it all for the User ..just like magic...

Hope all this helps any who might be interested.. :))

...and posting separately, as requested a short while ago, to
alt.sat.euro etc...

Bill ZFC (or Bill (Adopt) as per siggy somewhere)...
e&oe... ;))

Accs: Sir William Wright, Aerial Installer and sometime author
for "What Satellite and Fidgital TV", for demonstrating how an
'F' plug should be wired up and protected ..and how /not/ to
install a dish on the end of a flexible pole attached to a north
facing wall!

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
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