Frustrated button-pushing!
 

First, please excuse the length of this. I wanted to give as much info
as possible, in the hope that it will help the experts come up with
some solid advice.

After much help here and many days trial/error I finally got my basic
Skybox Freesat setup working 'properly'. IOW, so that I can record
from a SKY programme to my VCR. The cabling is the revised
configuration as shown he
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/I...KY-Cabling.gif

However, sometimes when I come to setup a recording, I get into the
most awful mess. It seems that the sequence of buttons that SUCCEEDS
one time FAILS the next, a few days later! Is that logically possible?
Or does it mean that somehow, and despite my attempts to be
consistent, I'm starting from a different 'place' on these occasions?

I still cannot get my mind around how to achieve consistency and would
appreciate some further help please. Ideally, I need a combination of
button presses that is guaranteed to get me to my VCR timer! That is,
unless the description below points to some erratic/unpredictable
cause, possibly hardware related, in which case I'm not sure what I
need...

To give a concrete example, last night I spent nearly 2 hours
button-pressing trying to get to my VCR timer dialog to make a
recording for later that evening. That took me well past the due start
time, so we had to hastily use our other TV to make the recording from
terrestrial. I then continued trying to find the magic combination.

The VCR was correctly set to channel 'E2', ('002' was entered to get
it, and I just leave it like that), and that is what has worked
previously. I was watching SKY (BBC1). What happened initially was
that when I pressed TV/AV on the TV remote, instead of that displaying
a blank blue screen as previously (prompting me to press Menu on the
VCR remote) it gave me a 'noise' screen, with 'VCR' just visible.

Note also that an alternative that *did* work some weeks ago,
immediately pressing Menu on the VCR remote without the interim step,
did nothing. That's been so since those first days, and I've never
discovered why it 'lapsed'. But I've been content with the 2-stage
procedure.

Anyway, I won't attempt to cover all the combinations I tried. Most
were repetitive of course, vainly hoping for a miracle. I changed the
AV channel to AV2 at one stage, and that failed too. At all times
though I kept 'E2' on the VCR display (apart from switching it off now
and again.) During all these attempts, whenever I returned to a
programme on the TV, it was showing one of these: 'AV1', 'AV1/RGB',
'EC1/RGB'. What exactly are each of these, and is one to be preferred?
Anyway, I *thought* that the list also included 'VCR', but now I'm not
sure, because - to my great eventual relief - with 'VCR' displayed on
the TV (while on a SKY programme), I finally got to my VCR menu! FWIW,
when I used Display I got 'VCR Mono Ch 35' - again, baffling to me.

But obviously it shouldn't be this hard! What am I missing? Is there a
sequence of button presses (possibly involving all 3 remotes) which
will ALWAYS get me there in a few seconds please? Or what are the very
*basic* fundamentals I need to grasp to be able to think this through
myself?

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Terry Pinnell wrote:
and again.) During all these attempts, whenever I returned to a
programme on the TV, it was showing one of these: 'AV1', 'AV1/RGB',
'EC1/RGB'. What exactly are each of these, and is one to be preferred?
Anyway, I *thought* that the list also included 'VCR', but now I'm not
sure, because - to my great eventual relief - with 'VCR' displayed on
the TV (while on a SKY programme), I finally got to my VCR menu! FWIW,
when I used Display I got 'VCR Mono Ch 35' - again, baffling to me.

The VCR is only connected through the RF aerial lead, so you need to
set the tv to whatever channel number preset is set to the VCR's
frequency (ch35). Tried selecting channel 0 on the TV?

The Sky box is connected to the TV through a scart lead. As soon as
you switch on the sky box, it will send a signal through the scart lead
for the TV to switch to the scart (AV) input. You should be able to
switch the TV back to its tuner by selecting a channel on the TV.

So my guess would be... turn on tv, sky box, and vcr. Select normal
tv tuner, probably by pressing a channel number, or TV/AV button,
possibly several times to cycle through the different inputs (until it
shows a channel number rather than AV1 etc.).
The VCR is probably on channel 0, so select channel 0. The TV
will now be displaying the signal from the VCR, which may be
the sky box (via the VCR's 'E2' input), or the vcr's own tuner.
Press menu or whatever on the VCR, and proceed.

Oh - AV1 is probably composite video via the scart, AV1/RGB is
probably the RGB signal inputs in the same scart (AV is Audio/Video).
Don't know what EC1 would be. Possibly a second scart? If AV1/RGB
(or EC1/RGB) displays the sky box, it'll probably be the best quality.
Might have to switch on RGB output in a sky box menu somewhere
though. Perhaps.

dom.

p.s. fwiw... about the only time I tried to record from my freesat sky
box, connected via scart leads all the way, I gave up. As I recall, it
worked, but was recording the tv's scart *output*. Not very helpful
when I wanted to watch something on another channel at the same
time. Re-arranged connections (got dvd recorder) since then, but
not yet found anything to record anyway. uknova...

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Dominic wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
and again.) During all these attempts, whenever I returned to a
programme on the TV, it was showing one of these: 'AV1', 'AV1/RGB',
'EC1/RGB'. What exactly are each of these, and is one to be preferred?
Anyway, I *thought* that the list also included 'VCR', but now I'm not
sure, because - to my great eventual relief - with 'VCR' displayed on
the TV (while on a SKY programme), I finally got to my VCR menu! FWIW,
when I used Display I got 'VCR Mono Ch 35' - again, baffling to me.

The VCR is only connected through the RF aerial lead, so you need to
set the tv to whatever channel number preset is set to the VCR's
frequency (ch35). Tried selecting channel 0 on the TV?

The Sky box is connected to the TV through a scart lead. As soon as
you switch on the sky box, it will send a signal through the scart lead
for the TV to switch to the scart (AV) input. You should be able to
switch the TV back to its tuner by selecting a channel on the TV.

So my guess would be... turn on tv, sky box, and vcr. Select normal
tv tuner, probably by pressing a channel number, or TV/AV button,
possibly several times to cycle through the different inputs (until it
shows a channel number rather than AV1 etc.).
The VCR is probably on channel 0, so select channel 0. The TV
will now be displaying the signal from the VCR, which may be
the sky box (via the VCR's 'E2' input), or the vcr's own tuner.
Press menu or whatever on the VCR, and proceed.

Oh - AV1 is probably composite video via the scart, AV1/RGB is
probably the RGB signal inputs in the same scart (AV is Audio/Video).
Don't know what EC1 would be. Possibly a second scart? If AV1/RGB
(or EC1/RGB) displays the sky box, it'll probably be the best quality.
Might have to switch on RGB output in a sky box menu somewhere
though. Perhaps.

dom.

p.s. fwiw... about the only time I tried to record from my freesat sky
box, connected via scart leads all the way, I gave up. As I recall, it
worked, but was recording the tv's scart *output*. Not very helpful
when I wanted to watch something on another channel at the same
time. Re-arranged connections (got dvd recorder) since then, but
not yet found anything to record anyway. uknova...

Many thanks Dominic, that's really helpful. I'll come back if I lose
the plot again!

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Terry Pinnell wrote:
First, please excuse the length of this. I wanted to give as much info
as possible, in the hope that it will help the experts come up with
some solid advice.

snip

Hi Terry, I can understand your frustration! It really should not be that
difficult and I think the problem is an error in the plugging of the
devices. Your diagram helped a lot and I can see an error in each
configuration.

Installer's config: he has not connected the Skybox directly to the VCR.
Silly! This means that the only way the VCR can record from the Skybox is
via the TV - it would record whatever channel you happened to be watching at
the time but as soon as you tuned to a terrestrial channel it would probably
start recording that! There must be a direct connection between Skybox
(output) to VCR (input).

This seems to have been solved in your second option. Unfortunately there is
fundamental flaw: there is now no SCART connection from the VCR to the TV!
Dominic's post below, although helpful, suggested hooking up the VCR to the
TV via its RF output. This is an old fashioned way of doing it and is
totally unnecessary. Forget the RF lead connection between VCR and TV. There
are enough SCART connections to do this properly.

My suggestion: go with the second configuration (Skybox connecting to VCR
via the VCR's AV2 SCART connection) BUT (very important) also connect the
VCR to the TV using a SCART as per the installer's original connection. Do
not connect VCR to TV via RF lead.

This will enable you to view on the TV:

TV AV1 = Skybox
TV AV2 = VCR.

Use the other numerical channel buttons on the TV to view terrestrial
channels.

The connection 'EC1' that you inadvertently selected on the TV is probably a
camera input 'external camera' - ignore.

Record Link: I had a look at the manual for your VCR on the Philips website.
Connecting the Skybox to the AV2 socket of the VCR enables you to use the
'record link' facility which is very handy. What this means is that you use
the timer in the Skybox, rather than the VCR, to record your programme. Once
the Skybox activates the VCR will detect this via the SCART connection and
spring into life, recording whatever is coming down the SCART lead.

The downside is that you can't be using the Skybox prior to the start time
of the recording. It has to be 'sleeping' because it's the very fact of it
switching on that activates the VCR SCART and starts the VCR recording.

To set this up you enable Record link using the VCR's menu system (page 11
of manual) then exit the menu. On the Skybox you programme its own timer
(start time/end time/channel) , select 'timer mode' on and the Skybox will
switch off. That's it.

You can then watch other terrestrial channels on the TV (but not the Skybox
because it will be switched off) using the TV's numerical channel buttons to
select your channel.

Once the start time of the programme arrives the Skybox will switch on and
the VCR will also switch on and start recording directly from the Skybox.

You'll probably find that when the Skybox switches on the TV will
automatically jump to the AV1 socket - this is a characteristic of the SCART
connection. If you are watching another programme at the time just use the
channel number button to get back to it.

I hope this is clear! Post again if not.

Good luck!

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Paul D wrote:
My suggestion: go with the second configuration (Skybox connecting to
VCR via the VCR's AV2 SCART connection) BUT (very important) also
connect the VCR to the TV using a SCART as per the installer's
original connection. Do not connect VCR to TV via RF lead.

Surely he wants to leave the VCR RF connection to the TV, or else this won't
be possible:

Use the other numerical channel buttons on the TV to view terrestrial
channels.

?

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Pyriform wrote:
Paul D wrote:
My suggestion: go with the second configuration (Skybox connecting to
VCR via the VCR's AV2 SCART connection) BUT (very important) also
connect the VCR to the TV using a SCART as per the installer's
original connection. Do not connect VCR to TV via RF lead.

Surely he wants to leave the VCR RF connection to the TV, or else
this won't be possible:

Use the other numerical channel buttons on the TV to view terrestrial
channels.

?

To view the terrestrial chanels on the TV via the TV's tuner! How on earth
would using the TV's numerical channel buttons give him access to the VCR's
RF output anyway, even if it was hooked up that way, which I repeat it
doesn't have to be.

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Paul D wrote:
Pyriform wrote:
Paul D wrote:
My suggestion: go with the second configuration (Skybox connecting
to VCR via the VCR's AV2 SCART connection) BUT (very important) also
connect the VCR to the TV using a SCART as per the installer's
original connection. Do not connect VCR to TV via RF lead.

Surely he wants to leave the VCR RF connection to the TV, or else
this won't be possible:

Use the other numerical channel buttons on the TV to view
terrestrial channels.

?

To view the terrestrial chanels on the TV via the TV's tuner! How on
earth would using the TV's numerical channel buttons give him access
to the VCR's RF output anyway, even if it was hooked up that way,
which I repeat it doesn't have to be.

Whoops, sorry! I've just realised what you meant.

Yes, of course the RF signal has to be looped through the VCR to the TV. I
was really trying to explain to the OP that you don't need to view the VCR
via its RF output, you use the SCART instead.

But to clarify, yes, the aerial lead should be hooked up as per the second
diagram.

Apologies for any confusion caused.

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

"Paul D" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
First, please excuse the length of this. I wanted to give as much info
as possible, in the hope that it will help the experts come up with
some solid advice.

snip

Hi Terry, I can understand your frustration! It really should not be that
difficult and I think the problem is an error in the plugging of the
devices. Your diagram helped a lot and I can see an error in each
configuration.

Installer's config: he has not connected the Skybox directly to the VCR.
Silly! This means that the only way the VCR can record from the Skybox is
via the TV - it would record whatever channel you happened to be watching at
the time but as soon as you tuned to a terrestrial channel it would probably
start recording that! There must be a direct connection between Skybox
(output) to VCR (input).

This seems to have been solved in your second option. Unfortunately there is
fundamental flaw: there is now no SCART connection from the VCR to the TV!
Dominic's post below, although helpful, suggested hooking up the VCR to the
TV via its RF output. This is an old fashioned way of doing it and is
totally unnecessary. Forget the RF lead connection between VCR and TV. There
are enough SCART connections to do this properly.

My suggestion: go with the second configuration (Skybox connecting to VCR
via the VCR's AV2 SCART connection) BUT (very important) also connect the
VCR to the TV using a SCART as per the installer's original connection. Do
not connect VCR to TV via RF lead.

This will enable you to view on the TV:

TV AV1 = Skybox
TV AV2 = VCR.

Use the other numerical channel buttons on the TV to view terrestrial
channels.

The connection 'EC1' that you inadvertently selected on the TV is probably a
camera input 'external camera' - ignore.

Record Link: I had a look at the manual for your VCR on the Philips website.
Connecting the Skybox to the AV2 socket of the VCR enables you to use the
'record link' facility which is very handy. What this means is that you use
the timer in the Skybox, rather than the VCR, to record your programme. Once
the Skybox activates the VCR will detect this via the SCART connection and
spring into life, recording whatever is coming down the SCART lead.

The downside is that you can't be using the Skybox prior to the start time
of the recording. It has to be 'sleeping' because it's the very fact of it
switching on that activates the VCR SCART and starts the VCR recording.

To set this up you enable Record link using the VCR's menu system (page 11
of manual) then exit the menu. On the Skybox you programme its own timer
(start time/end time/channel) , select 'timer mode' on and the Skybox will
switch off. That's it.

You can then watch other terrestrial channels on the TV (but not the Skybox
because it will be switched off) using the TV's numerical channel buttons to
select your channel.

Once the start time of the programme arrives the Skybox will switch on and
the VCR will also switch on and start recording directly from the Skybox.

You'll probably find that when the Skybox switches on the TV will
automatically jump to the AV1 socket - this is a characteristic of the SCART
connection. If you are watching another programme at the time just use the
channel number button to get back to it.

I hope this is clear! Post again if not.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot, Paul, much appreciate your taking the trouble to reply
so comprehensively.

I'll revisit the additional Scart method again at some stage. But I
don't think you can have seen the earlier thread describing my initial
foray into all this, in
Subject: Recording digital channel to VCR?
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006


Amongst many other things, I did try that '3-Scart' configuration, but
it proved unsuccessful. It didn't fix the recording issue, and in
addition some sort of feedback occurred, producing 'howling'. Of
course, it could be that I screwed it up some way, but I'm pretty
confident I was methodical about it, before finally giving up and
settling on the present cabling configuration.

For the moment that 'working procedure' I described at the end of my
initial post, which I eventually recovered, is still working. So I
think I'll stick with that modus operandi for now, even though it's
pretty clumsy and 'easy to lose' g.

As for Record Link and Autoview, those too were explored in the
earlier thread. It appears my VCR unfortunately doesn't support Record
Link. I got strange results if I enabled it and tried to use it in
conjunction with Autoview. Prompted by your post I tried it again over
the last hour or so, with similar results to last time. Here's a
detailed description of what I did and what happened, starting with
some 'routine' operations:

1) Switch on TV. Starts up with SKY, using 'AV1/RGB'.

2) Press TV/AV on TV remote. SKY now on 'VCR Ch 35 Mono'. Another
press of the 'i' for Info button on my TV remote changes that to
'VCR', then blank, then 'VCR Ch 35 Mono', cycling through those 3
descriptions. (BTW, what is that worrying 'Mono' all about please?
Does that mean I've somehow lost my stereo? Difficult to tell in
practice, as I just have the inbuilt speakers.)

3) Press 'Menu' on VCR remote, then use Timer menu to setup a program
for recording: Timer number, Start Time, Stop Time, Programme ('002'
has to be entered), PDC (arbitrarily set to Off). Press Exit to
finish.

4) Then press Timer Set on VCR remote to prepare VCR. That produces a
'Noise screen' until I press TV/AV again, which returns me to
'AV1/RGB'.

5) At intended start time, VCR records 1 minute of whatever SKY is
receiving at that time. (Played it back to check. I see it has
recorded 'AV2'.)

So far so good. In practice I would use Autoview to ensure SKY
switched to required programme. No problem if I had then switched TV
off (e.g. while away from home). But no good if I wanted to watch
another SKY programme when the recording was being made. In that case
could I switch the SKY box off and watch a terrestrial channel?

6) As an aside, while SKY is on 'VCR', instead of using TV/AV, if
instead I switch the SKY box off and on again I get 'VCR EC1/RGB'. I'm
guessing 'EC1' means 'Electronic channel 1' or 'External channel 1',
but I'm baffled as to the distinction between this and plain 'VCR', or
why it changes to this. With 'VCR EC1/RGB' displaying, if I manually
switch off TV, when I switch back on it's still showing 'VCR EC1/RGB'.

7) If, from there, I now press TV/AV, I get 'VCR Mono' (= 'VCr Ch35
Mono') as before. And if I now toggle TV/AV again, I get 'AV1/RGB',
not 'VCR EC1/RGB'. Probably irrelevant to current context, but
puzzling nevertheless!

8) Just out of curiosity I then pressed SKY box Off, which gave me
'AV1' on a black screen. SKY box on returned me to programme on
'AV1/RGB'.

9) Now for the Record Link experiments. Pressed TV/AV, Menu, Record
Setup, and enabled Record Link.

10) TV/AV to get back to SKY on 'AV1/RGB'.

11) At ~ 2:20 used Autoview on ITV3 for 2:30. Switched to SKY BBC1 and
watched that while waiting. But I didn't expect anything to happen, as
I had not used Timer Set on VCR remote. (So LED was not on on VCR.)
And, apart from the usual warning message from SKY box at 2:29, no
recording did occur.

12) Repeated for a 2:45 programme, but this time I did press Timer Set
after the Autoview setup.

13) But it IMMEDIATELY started recording, at about 2:35. This is same
exasperating behaviour I reported in previous thread, and to Philips
Tech Support. Worst aspect (until I found out what to do) is that I
cannot then *stop* the recording, either with STOP, Pressing Timer
Set, or even Switching VCR to Standby. The only way to stop it is to
switch SKY box off (-- 'AV1', black screen). Can then also switch off
Timer Set.

14) I switched Timer set back on again at 2:44, just in time hopefully
to test my 2:45 recording again. Something odd then happened. It *did*
start recording, but stopped gain about a minute later. I'd expected
it to continue for 30 mins or so (Athletics on BBC2). And when it
stopped, 'E2' on the VCR had become '----'.

15) Tried yet again, setting recording with Autoview for 3:00 pm and
this time switching TV (on AV1) to Ch 2 terrestrial while waiting. But
that made no difference. As soon as I pressed Timer Set, the same
happened: immediate recording.

So my conclusion remains as before. Record Link doesn't work. Even if
it did, as you point out, it would be pretty useless in practice, as I
would be unable to watch something else on SKY before or during the
recording. Therefore I think I must reconcile myself to using the VCR
Timer setup menu. Very tedious, especially as (before SKY) I used to
use the very convenient PlusVideo feature, simply entering a programme
code.

The SKY people echo my son's advice: scrap this and get SKY Plus. But
that will have to wait. I just don't want *any* subscription, and
having forked out £150 (plus extras for chimney mount, plus IR add-on
necessary because SKY box not visible), I'm determined to get some
value out of it. Apart from that, I hate unsolved puzzles!

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Terry Pinnell wrote:

Hi again Terry. I'm sorry to hear that you still haven't got this
sorted.

15) Tried yet again, setting recording with Autoview for 3:00 pm and
this time switching TV (on AV1) to Ch 2 terrestrial while waiting. But
that made no difference. As soon as I pressed Timer Set, the same
happened: immediate recording.

I think what is happening is that your Sky box is on and that is
triggering the recording. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think
that the auto view feature needs the Sky box to be on to switch to the
correct channel, for some reason the sky box doesn't wake from standby
to do this. So in that case Record Link will not work :-(

So my conclusion remains as before. Record Link doesn't work.

Well it is working at the VCR end it's just that we seem to be unable
to get your Sky box to send the correct signals.

Even if
it did, as you point out, it would be pretty useless in practice, as I
would be unable to watch something else on SKY before or during the
recording. Therefore I think I must reconcile myself to using the VCR
Timer setup menu. Very tedious, especially as (before SKY) I used to
use the very convenient PlusVideo feature, simply entering a programme
code.

You would only set the video to record as you stopped watching the Sky
box in any case.

The SKY people echo my son's advice: scrap this and get SKY Plus. But
that will have to wait. I just don't want *any* subscription, and
having forked out £150 (plus extras for chimney mount, plus IR add-on
necessary because SKY box not visible), I'm determined to get some
value out of it.

Flog it all on eBay and get a twin-tuner Freeview PVR. :-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Paul D" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
First, please excuse the length of this. I wanted to give as much
info as possible, in the hope that it will help the experts come up
with some solid advice.

snip

Thanks a lot, Paul, much appreciate your taking the trouble to reply
so comprehensively.

I'll revisit the additional Scart method again at some stage. But I
don't think you can have seen the earlier thread describing my initial
foray into all this, in
Subject: Recording digital channel to VCR?
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006


No I didn't see that. Hopefully if we can crack this current issue the other
issues will be resolved too!

Amongst many other things, I did try that '3-Scart' configuration, but
it proved unsuccessful. It didn't fix the recording issue, and in
addition some sort of feedback occurred, producing 'howling'. Of
course, it could be that I screwed it up some way, but I'm pretty
confident I was methodical about it, before finally giving up and
settling on the present cabling configuration.

That's bizarre! You mean an audible howl? The only way that can happen, as
far as I know, is if you have a mic connected. I can't imagine what else
would cause the feedback. Ah well, at least your current configuration
works, up to a point.

snip

As for Record Link and Autoview, those too were explored in the
earlier thread. It appears my VCR unfortunately doesn't support Record
Link. I got strange results if I enabled it and tried to use it in
conjunction with Autoview. Prompted by your post I tried it again over
the last hour or so, with similar results to last time. Here's a
detailed description of what I did and what happened, starting with
some 'routine' operations:

snip

Checking the Philips manual it definitely supports record link (page 11).
For some reason it's not interfacing with the Skybox correctly.

1) Switch on TV. Starts up with SKY, using 'AV1/RGB'.

2) Press TV/AV on TV remote. SKY now on 'VCR Ch 35 Mono'. Another
press of the 'i' for Info button on my TV remote changes that to
'VCR', then blank, then 'VCR Ch 35 Mono', cycling through those 3
descriptions. (BTW, what is that worrying 'Mono' all about please?
Does that mean I've somehow lost my stereo? Difficult to tell in
practice, as I just have the inbuilt speakers.)

The VCR mono issue: I'm worried that you're viewing the VCR's output via its
RF cable, rather than the SCART. If you unplug the RF lead from the TV can
you still see the VCR's output? 'Channel 35 mono' is probably the VCR's RF
output channel. Hopefully this is purely for information and not because you
are viewing by the RF channel. If you were you would not have stereo. Stereo
sound fom the VCR to the TV is carried by the SCART lead or by a separate
audio connection (but let's not go there!).

3) Press 'Menu' on VCR remote, then use Timer menu to setup a program
for recording: Timer number, Start Time, Stop Time, Programme ('002'
has to be entered), PDC (arbitrarily set to Off). Press Exit to
finish.

4) Then press Timer Set on VCR remote to prepare VCR. That produces a
'Noise screen' until I press TV/AV again, which returns me to
'AV1/RGB'.

5) At intended start time, VCR records 1 minute of whatever SKY is
receiving at that time. (Played it back to check. I see it has
recorded 'AV2'.)

This proves that the connection between your VCR and Skybox is fine and
working.

So far so good. In practice I would use Autoview to ensure SKY
switched to required programme. No problem if I had then switched TV
off (e.g. while away from home). But no good if I wanted to watch
another SKY programme when the recording was being made. In that case
could I switch the SKY box off and watch a terrestrial channel?

However you use the Skybox it only has ONE tuner, so if it's being used in a
recording you cannot watch a different Sky channel at the same time. Your
only option would be to watch a terrestrial channel on your TV via the TV's
tuner, using the standard numeric channel buttons on the TV.

6) As an aside, while SKY is on 'VCR', instead of using TV/AV, if
instead I switch the SKY box off and on again I get 'VCR EC1/RGB'. I'm
guessing 'EC1' means 'Electronic channel 1' or 'External channel 1',
but I'm baffled as to the distinction between this and plain 'VCR', or
why it changes to this. With 'VCR EC1/RGB' displaying, if I manually
switch off TV, when I switch back on it's still showing 'VCR EC1/RGB'.

This is probably just a feature of the TV. The Skybox being switched on
triggers the channel to display some basic information. EC1 probably means
external channel, although I don't know for sure.

7) If, from there, I now press TV/AV, I get 'VCR Mono' (= 'VCr Ch35
Mono') as before. And if I now toggle TV/AV again, I get 'AV1/RGB',
not 'VCR EC1/RGB'. Probably irrelevant to current context, but
puzzling nevertheless!

I imagine it's just that toggling TV/AV button gives more basic information
than actually being on the VCR channel and then switching on something
external (eg the Skybox).

8) Just out of curiosity I then pressed SKY box Off, which gave me
'AV1' on a black screen. SKY box on returned me to programme on
'AV1/RGB'.

That's fine. It's telling you that you are on AV1 with an RGB input from the
Skybox.

9) Now for the Record Link experiments. Pressed TV/AV, Menu, Record
Setup, and enabled Record Link.

10) TV/AV to get back to SKY on 'AV1/RGB'.

11) At ~ 2:20 used Autoview on ITV3 for 2:30. Switched to SKY BBC1 and
watched that while waiting. But I didn't expect anything to happen, as
I had not used Timer Set on VCR remote. (So LED was not on on VCR.)
And, apart from the usual warning message from SKY box at 2:29, no
recording did occur.

12) Repeated for a 2:45 programme, but this time I did press Timer Set
after the Autoview setup.

13) But it IMMEDIATELY started recording, at about 2:35. This is same
exasperating behaviour I reported in previous thread, and to Philips
Tech Support. Worst aspect (until I found out what to do) is that I
cannot then *stop* the recording, either with STOP, Pressing Timer
Set, or even Switching VCR to Standby. The only way to stop it is to
switch SKY box off (-- 'AV1', black screen). Can then also switch off
Timer Set.

Ah, I think I can see the problem. As I explained in my previous post,
Record Link works by the VCR being triggered into recording by a signal
coming down its SCART lead from the Digibox. Therefore the Digibox has to be
'asleep', i.e. in standby mode, before the recording is due to start. It's
the act of the Skybox switching on that triggers the recording to start on
the VCR.

I don't have a Skybox so I don't know exactly how they function, but I would
think that you use Autoview to programme a channel change at a certain time,
but there should be a means of switching it to standby until its time to
switch channels. After the programmed 'off' time the Skybox should switch
back to standby - this would then stop the recording on the VCR.

The problem with your experiment is that you are not switching the Skybox to
standby after setting Autoview. Therefore, as soon as you hit 'timer set' on
the VCR is detects that the Skybox is on (via the SCART) and immediately
jumps into action - that is what it's supposed to do. It's a safety feature
that means you cannot stop the recording until the Skybox is off, this
protects your recording. As you've found, once the Skybox is switched off
the recording stops and you can deselect Timer Record.

14) I switched Timer set back on again at 2:44, just in time hopefully
to test my 2:45 recording again. Something odd then happened. It *did*
start recording, but stopped gain about a minute later. I'd expected
it to continue for 30 mins or so (Athletics on BBC2). And when it
stopped, 'E2' on the VCR had become '----'.

Not sure about that - was the Skybox on or off at that point?

15) Tried yet again, setting recording with Autoview for 3:00 pm and
this time switching TV (on AV1) to Ch 2 terrestrial while waiting. But
that made no difference. As soon as I pressed Timer Set, the same
happened: immediate recording.

Indeed, because the Skybox was on!

So my conclusion remains as before. Record Link doesn't work. Even if
it did, as you point out, it would be pretty useless in practice, as I
would be unable to watch something else on SKY before or during the
recording.

You wouldn't before the recording as the Skybox would be off, but you
wouldn't during the recording either - remember, you only have one Sky
tuner! You've proved to me that Record Link does work, but it might not be
the best way to proceed if you cannot set a start and stop time on the
Skybox itself as part of the Autoview feature.

To reiterate, the Skybox should be in standby before the recording is due to
start, it will then switch itself on via Autoview and trigger the recording
to start in the VCR. At the appointed 'switch off' time the Skybox will
switch off and this will trigger the VCR to stop recording.

If the Skybox is unable to switch itself on and off at preset times then you
cannot use Record Link. You will just have to programme the VCR in the old
fashioned way - start time/stop time/channel (i.e. the SCART 002) and ensure
that the Skybox is left with the desired channel selected (or Autoview
programmed to change the channel if you're not there).

Therefore I think I must reconcile myself to using the VCR
Timer setup menu. Very tedious, especially as (before SKY) I used to
use the very convenient PlusVideo feature, simply entering a programme
code.

You can still use this function for timer recording terrestrial programmes.
The VCR has it's own terrestrial tuner.

The SKY people echo my son's advice: scrap this and get SKY Plus. But
that will have to wait. I just don't want *any* subscription, and
having forked out £150 (plus extras for chimney mount, plus IR add-on
necessary because SKY box not visible), I'm determined to get some
value out of it. Apart from that, I hate unsolved puzzles!

Well we're getting nearer with the puzzle! Skyplus would be better of course
but once you've cracked the current setup it will be ok for now. Does your
son have a boffin/geek friend who could have a look? Maybe it's not
necessary now, perhaps you'll be able to crack it yourself.

By the way, I've been reading about Sky's Autoview feature on the Digital
Spy forum and it seems a little buggy, or at least it was last year. It
seems that sometimes it doesn't switch on the Skybox, especially on the BBC
channels, so therefore the recording is not triggered on the VCR.

Perhaps see how it goes, you might have to record the old fashioned way,
even if you manage to crack Record Link.

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:48:38 GMT, "Paul D" wrote:

That's bizarre! You mean an audible howl? The only way that can happen, as
far as I know, is if you have a mic connected. I can't imagine what else
would cause the feedback. Ah well, at least your current configuration
works, up to a point.

This can happen if the TV AV1 output to the VCR input is the same as
the VCR output to AV1 on the TV. The TV AV1 output is a TV menu item.

--
Alan White
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather
Some walks and treks:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/walks

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

"Paul D" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Paul D" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
First, please excuse the length of this. I wanted to give as much
info as possible, in the hope that it will help the experts come up
with some solid advice.

snip

Thanks a lot, Paul, much appreciate your taking the trouble to reply
so comprehensively.

I'll revisit the additional Scart method again at some stage. But I
don't think you can have seen the earlier thread describing my initial
foray into all this, in
Subject: Recording digital channel to VCR?
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006


No I didn't see that. Hopefully if we can crack this current issue the other
issues will be resolved too!

Amongst many other things, I did try that '3-Scart' configuration, but
it proved unsuccessful. It didn't fix the recording issue, and in
addition some sort of feedback occurred, producing 'howling'. Of
course, it could be that I screwed it up some way, but I'm pretty
confident I was methodical about it, before finally giving up and
settling on the present cabling configuration.

That's bizarre! You mean an audible howl? The only way that can happen, as
far as I know, is if you have a mic connected. I can't imagine what else
would cause the feedback. Ah well, at least your current configuration
works, up to a point.

snip

As for Record Link and Autoview, those too were explored in the
earlier thread. It appears my VCR unfortunately doesn't support Record
Link. I got strange results if I enabled it and tried to use it in
conjunction with Autoview. Prompted by your post I tried it again over
the last hour or so, with similar results to last time. Here's a
detailed description of what I did and what happened, starting with
some 'routine' operations:

snip

Checking the Philips manual it definitely supports record link (page 11).
For some reason it's not interfacing with the Skybox correctly.

1) Switch on TV. Starts up with SKY, using 'AV1/RGB'.

2) Press TV/AV on TV remote. SKY now on 'VCR Ch 35 Mono'. Another
press of the 'i' for Info button on my TV remote changes that to
'VCR', then blank, then 'VCR Ch 35 Mono', cycling through those 3
descriptions. (BTW, what is that worrying 'Mono' all about please?
Does that mean I've somehow lost my stereo? Difficult to tell in
practice, as I just have the inbuilt speakers.)

The VCR mono issue: I'm worried that you're viewing the VCR's output via its
RF cable, rather than the SCART. If you unplug the RF lead from the TV can
you still see the VCR's output? 'Channel 35 mono' is probably the VCR's RF
output channel. Hopefully this is purely for information and not because you
are viewing by the RF channel. If you were you would not have stereo. Stereo
sound fom the VCR to the TV is carried by the SCART lead or by a separate
audio connection (but let's not go there!).

3) Press 'Menu' on VCR remote, then use Timer menu to setup a program
for recording: Timer number, Start Time, Stop Time, Programme ('002'
has to be entered), PDC (arbitrarily set to Off). Press Exit to
finish.

4) Then press Timer Set on VCR remote to prepare VCR. That produces a
'Noise screen' until I press TV/AV again, which returns me to
'AV1/RGB'.

5) At intended start time, VCR records 1 minute of whatever SKY is
receiving at that time. (Played it back to check. I see it has
recorded 'AV2'.)

This proves that the connection between your VCR and Skybox is fine and
working.

So far so good. In practice I would use Autoview to ensure SKY
switched to required programme. No problem if I had then switched TV
off (e.g. while away from home). But no good if I wanted to watch
another SKY programme when the recording was being made. In that case
could I switch the SKY box off and watch a terrestrial channel?

However you use the Skybox it only has ONE tuner, so if it's being used in a
recording you cannot watch a different Sky channel at the same time. Your
only option would be to watch a terrestrial channel on your TV via the TV's
tuner, using the standard numeric channel buttons on the TV.

6) As an aside, while SKY is on 'VCR', instead of using TV/AV, if
instead I switch the SKY box off and on again I get 'VCR EC1/RGB'. I'm
guessing 'EC1' means 'Electronic channel 1' or 'External channel 1',
but I'm baffled as to the distinction between this and plain 'VCR', or
why it changes to this. With 'VCR EC1/RGB' displaying, if I manually
switch off TV, when I switch back on it's still showing 'VCR EC1/RGB'.

This is probably just a feature of the TV. The Skybox being switched on
triggers the channel to display some basic information. EC1 probably means
external channel, although I don't know for sure.

7) If, from there, I now press TV/AV, I get 'VCR Mono' (= 'VCr Ch35
Mono') as before. And if I now toggle TV/AV again, I get 'AV1/RGB',
not 'VCR EC1/RGB'. Probably irrelevant to current context, but
puzzling nevertheless!

I imagine it's just that toggling TV/AV button gives more basic information
than actually being on the VCR channel and then switching on something
external (eg the Skybox).

8) Just out of curiosity I then pressed SKY box Off, which gave me
'AV1' on a black screen. SKY box on returned me to programme on
'AV1/RGB'.

That's fine. It's telling you that you are on AV1 with an RGB input from the
Skybox.

9) Now for the Record Link experiments. Pressed TV/AV, Menu, Record
Setup, and enabled Record Link.

10) TV/AV to get back to SKY on 'AV1/RGB'.

11) At ~ 2:20 used Autoview on ITV3 for 2:30. Switched to SKY BBC1 and
watched that while waiting. But I didn't expect anything to happen, as
I had not used Timer Set on VCR remote. (So LED was not on on VCR.)
And, apart from the usual warning message from SKY box at 2:29, no
recording did occur.

12) Repeated for a 2:45 programme, but this time I did press Timer Set
after the Autoview setup.

13) But it IMMEDIATELY started recording, at about 2:35. This is same
exasperating behaviour I reported in previous thread, and to Philips
Tech Support. Worst aspect (until I found out what to do) is that I
cannot then *stop* the recording, either with STOP, Pressing Timer
Set, or even Switching VCR to Standby. The only way to stop it is to
switch SKY box off (-- 'AV1', black screen). Can then also switch off
Timer Set.

Ah, I think I can see the problem. As I explained in my previous post,
Record Link works by the VCR being triggered into recording by a signal
coming down its SCART lead from the Digibox. Therefore the Digibox has to be
'asleep', i.e. in standby mode, before the recording is due to start. It's
the act of the Skybox switching on that triggers the recording to start on
the VCR.

I don't have a Skybox so I don't know exactly how they function, but I would
think that you use Autoview to programme a channel change at a certain time,
but there should be a means of switching it to standby until its time to
switch channels. After the programmed 'off' time the Skybox should switch
back to standby - this would then stop the recording on the VCR.

The problem with your experiment is that you are not switching the Skybox to
standby after setting Autoview. Therefore, as soon as you hit 'timer set' on
the VCR is detects that the Skybox is on (via the SCART) and immediately
jumps into action - that is what it's supposed to do. It's a safety feature
that means you cannot stop the recording until the Skybox is off, this
protects your recording. As you've found, once the Skybox is switched off
the recording stops and you can deselect Timer Record.

14) I switched Timer set back on again at 2:44, just in time hopefully
to test my 2:45 recording again. Something odd then happened. It *did*
start recording, but stopped gain about a minute later. I'd expected
it to continue for 30 mins or so (Athletics on BBC2). And when it
stopped, 'E2' on the VCR had become '----'.

Not sure about that - was the Skybox on or off at that point?

15) Tried yet again, setting recording with Autoview for 3:00 pm and
this time switching TV (on AV1) to Ch 2 terrestrial while waiting. But
that made no difference. As soon as I pressed Timer Set, the same
happened: immediate recording.

Indeed, because the Skybox was on!

So my conclusion remains as before. Record Link doesn't work. Even if
it did, as you point out, it would be pretty useless in practice, as I
would be unable to watch something else on SKY before or during the
recording.

You wouldn't before the recording as the Skybox would be off, but you
wouldn't during the recording either - remember, you only have one Sky
tuner! You've proved to me that Record Link does work, but it might not be
the best way to proceed if you cannot set a start and stop time on the
Skybox itself as part of the Autoview feature.

To reiterate, the Skybox should be in standby before the recording is due to
start, it will then switch itself on via Autoview and trigger the recording
to start in the VCR. At the appointed 'switch off' time the Skybox will
switch off and this will trigger the VCR to stop recording.

If the Skybox is unable to switch itself on and off at preset times then you
cannot use Record Link. You will just have to programme the VCR in the old
fashioned way - start time/stop time/channel (i.e. the SCART 002) and ensure
that the Skybox is left with the desired channel selected (or Autoview
programmed to change the channel if you're not there).

Therefore I think I must reconcile myself to using the VCR
Timer setup menu. Very tedious, especially as (before SKY) I used to
use the very convenient PlusVideo feature, simply entering a programme
code.

You can still use this function for timer recording terrestrial programmes.
The VCR has it's own terrestrial tuner.

The SKY people echo my son's advice: scrap this and get SKY Plus. But
that will have to wait. I just don't want *any* subscription, and
having forked out £150 (plus extras for chimney mount, plus IR add-on
necessary because SKY box not visible), I'm determined to get some
value out of it. Apart from that, I hate unsolved puzzles!

Well we're getting nearer with the puzzle! Skyplus would be better of course
but once you've cracked the current setup it will be ok for now. Does your
son have a boffin/geek friend who could have a look? Maybe it's not
necessary now, perhaps you'll be able to crack it yourself.

By the way, I've been reading about Sky's Autoview feature on the Digital
Spy forum and it seems a little buggy, or at least it was last year. It
seems that sometimes it doesn't switch on the Skybox, especially on the BBC
channels, so therefore the recording is not triggered on the VCR.

Perhaps see how it goes, you might have to record the old fashioned way,
even if you manage to crack Record Link.

Paul, Phil: Thanks both, greatly appreciate your help. Much to study
there. Reckon I'll get back on the case tomorrow - or later if the sun
tempts me out for a hike g.

Meanwhile, there is one key point on page 34 of the Skybox user guide
that seems at odds with your advice to switch it to standby, Paul:
"To record a satellite programme, make su
- you have read the user guide that came with your vide/DVD recorder
- your VCR is set up correctly
- your Sky box is on and tuned to the channel you want to record ---?
- your video/DVD recorder's timer is set"

Or have I misunderstood that point?

Must say I find it incredible that this has proved such a headache!

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Paul D" wrote:

snip

Meanwhile, there is one key point on page 34 of the Skybox user guide
that seems at odds with your advice to switch it to standby, Paul:
"To record a satellite programme, make su
- you have read the user guide that came with your vide/DVD recorder
- your VCR is set up correctly
- your Sky box is on and tuned to the channel you want to record ---?
- your video/DVD recorder's timer is set"

Or have I misunderstood that point?

Those instructions refer to making a straightforward timer recording using
the VCR (what I referred to as the 'old fashioned way' above). You set up
the VCR to make the recording using the VCR's own timer. The Skybox is left
on so that the signal is available when the recorder starts. You can use the
Skybox beforehand as long as it's on the required channel when the recording
is due to start.

The instruction to leave the Skybox on standby is when you use the total
separate method called RECORD LINK. This is when you select this function on
the VCR (as you've managed to do already) but you do not set the recording
details on the VCR.

Instead you use the AUTOVIEW function on the Skybox to switch to the correct
channel at the right time and to switch off at the right time. After you've
programmed the Autoview function with all the recording details (date, time,
channel etc) you then set the Skybox to standby. When the programmed start
time arrives the Skybox will switch itself out of standby and this action
will trigger the VCR to start recording. Once the programme ends the Skybox
will go back into standby and this will prompt the VCR to stop recording.

So I hope that's clear - these are two distinct methods to make a
recording.

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

"Paul D" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Paul D" wrote:

snip

Meanwhile, there is one key point on page 34 of the Skybox user guide
that seems at odds with your advice to switch it to standby, Paul:
"To record a satellite programme, make su
- you have read the user guide that came with your vide/DVD recorder
- your VCR is set up correctly
- your Sky box is on and tuned to the channel you want to record ---?
- your video/DVD recorder's timer is set"

Or have I misunderstood that point?

Those instructions refer to making a straightforward timer recording using
the VCR (what I referred to as the 'old fashioned way' above). You set up
the VCR to make the recording using the VCR's own timer. The Skybox is left
on so that the signal is available when the recorder starts. You can use the
Skybox beforehand as long as it's on the required channel when the recording
is due to start.

The instruction to leave the Skybox on standby is when you use the total
separate method called RECORD LINK. This is when you select this function on
the VCR (as you've managed to do already) but you do not set the recording
details on the VCR.

Instead you use the AUTOVIEW function on the Skybox to switch to the correct
channel at the right time and to switch off at the right time. After you've
programmed the Autoview function with all the recording details (date, time,
channel etc) you then set the Skybox to standby. When the programmed start
time arrives the Skybox will switch itself out of standby and this action
will trigger the VCR to start recording. Once the programme ends the Skybox
will go back into standby and this will prompt the VCR to stop recording.

So I hope that's clear - these are two distinct methods to make a
recording.

Got it, thanks Paul! I ran another test this morning, using Record
Link, and it worked exactly as you described. Appreciate your patient
help.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

Frustrated button-pushing!
 

Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Paul D" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Paul D" wrote:

snip

Meanwhile, there is one key point on page 34 of the Skybox user
guide that seems at odds with your advice to switch it to standby,
Paul: "To record a satellite programme, make su
- you have read the user guide that came with your vide/DVD recorder
- your VCR is set up correctly
- your Sky box is on and tuned to the channel you want to record
---?
- your video/DVD recorder's timer is set"

Or have I misunderstood that point?

Those instructions refer to making a straightforward timer recording
using the VCR (what I referred to as the 'old fashioned way' above).
You set up the VCR to make the recording using the VCR's own timer.
The Skybox is left on so that the signal is available when the
recorder starts. You can use the Skybox beforehand as long as it's
on the required channel when the recording is due to start.

The instruction to leave the Skybox on standby is when you use the
total separate method called RECORD LINK. This is when you select
this function on the VCR (as you've managed to do already) but you
do not set the recording details on the VCR.

Instead you use the AUTOVIEW function on the Skybox to switch to the
correct channel at the right time and to switch off at the right
time. After you've programmed the Autoview function with all the
recording details (date, time, channel etc) you then set the Skybox
to standby. When the programmed start time arrives the Skybox will
switch itself out of standby and this action will trigger the VCR to
start recording. Once the programme ends the Skybox will go back
into standby and this will prompt the VCR to stop recording.

So I hope that's clear - these are two distinct methods to make a
recording.

Got it, thanks Paul! I ran another test this morning, using Record
Link, and it worked exactly as you described. Appreciate your patient
help.

Bravo, well done! I'm glad it worked out.