Home cinema - Frustrated button-pushing!

"Paul D" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Paul D" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
First, please excuse the length of this. I wanted to give as much
info as possible, in the hope that it will help the experts come up
with some solid advice.

snip

Thanks a lot, Paul, much appreciate your taking the trouble to reply
so comprehensively.

I'll revisit the additional Scart method again at some stage. But I
don't think you can have seen the earlier thread describing my initial
foray into all this, in
Subject: Recording digital channel to VCR?
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006

No I didn't see that. Hopefully if we can crack this current issue the other
issues will be resolved too!

Amongst many other things, I did try that '3-Scart' configuration, but
it proved unsuccessful. It didn't fix the recording issue, and in
addition some sort of feedback occurred, producing 'howling'. Of
course, it could be that I screwed it up some way, but I'm pretty
confident I was methodical about it, before finally giving up and
settling on the present cabling configuration.

That's bizarre! You mean an audible howl? The only way that can happen, as
far as I know, is if you have a mic connected. I can't imagine what else
would cause the feedback. Ah well, at least your current configuration
works, up to a point.

snip

As for Record Link and Autoview, those too were explored in the
earlier thread. It appears my VCR unfortunately doesn't support Record
Link. I got strange results if I enabled it and tried to use it in
conjunction with Autoview. Prompted by your post I tried it again over
the last hour or so, with similar results to last time. Here's a
detailed description of what I did and what happened, starting with
some 'routine' operations:

snip

Checking the Philips manual it definitely supports record link (page 11).
For some reason it's not interfacing with the Skybox correctly.

1) Switch on TV. Starts up with SKY, using 'AV1/RGB'.

2) Press TV/AV on TV remote. SKY now on 'VCR Ch 35 Mono'. Another
press of the 'i' for Info button on my TV remote changes that to
'VCR', then blank, then 'VCR Ch 35 Mono', cycling through those 3
descriptions. (BTW, what is that worrying 'Mono' all about please?
Does that mean I've somehow lost my stereo? Difficult to tell in
practice, as I just have the inbuilt speakers.)

The VCR mono issue: I'm worried that you're viewing the VCR's output via its
RF cable, rather than the SCART. If you unplug the RF lead from the TV can
you still see the VCR's output? 'Channel 35 mono' is probably the VCR's RF
output channel. Hopefully this is purely for information and not because you
are viewing by the RF channel. If you were you would not have stereo. Stereo
sound fom the VCR to the TV is carried by the SCART lead or by a separate
audio connection (but let's not go there!).

3) Press 'Menu' on VCR remote, then use Timer menu to setup a program
for recording: Timer number, Start Time, Stop Time, Programme ('002'
has to be entered), PDC (arbitrarily set to Off). Press Exit to
finish.

4) Then press Timer Set on VCR remote to prepare VCR. That produces a
'Noise screen' until I press TV/AV again, which returns me to
'AV1/RGB'.

5) At intended start time, VCR records 1 minute of whatever SKY is
receiving at that time. (Played it back to check. I see it has
recorded 'AV2'.)

This proves that the connection between your VCR and Skybox is fine and
working.

So far so good. In practice I would use Autoview to ensure SKY
switched to required programme. No problem if I had then switched TV
off (e.g. while away from home). But no good if I wanted to watch
another SKY programme when the recording was being made. In that case
could I switch the SKY box off and watch a terrestrial channel?

However you use the Skybox it only has ONE tuner, so if it's being used in a
recording you cannot watch a different Sky channel at the same time. Your
only option would be to watch a terrestrial channel on your TV via the TV's
tuner, using the standard numeric channel buttons on the TV.

6) As an aside, while SKY is on 'VCR', instead of using TV/AV, if
instead I switch the SKY box off and on again I get 'VCR EC1/RGB'. I'm
guessing 'EC1' means 'Electronic channel 1' or 'External channel 1',
but I'm baffled as to the distinction between this and plain 'VCR', or
why it changes to this. With 'VCR EC1/RGB' displaying, if I manually
switch off TV, when I switch back on it's still showing 'VCR EC1/RGB'.

This is probably just a feature of the TV. The Skybox being switched on
triggers the channel to display some basic information. EC1 probably means
external channel, although I don't know for sure.

7) If, from there, I now press TV/AV, I get 'VCR Mono' (= 'VCr Ch35
Mono') as before. And if I now toggle TV/AV again, I get 'AV1/RGB',
not 'VCR EC1/RGB'. Probably irrelevant to current context, but
puzzling nevertheless!

I imagine it's just that toggling TV/AV button gives more basic information
than actually being on the VCR channel and then switching on something
external (eg the Skybox).

8) Just out of curiosity I then pressed SKY box Off, which gave me
'AV1' on a black screen. SKY box on returned me to programme on
'AV1/RGB'.

That's fine. It's telling you that you are on AV1 with an RGB input from the
Skybox.

9) Now for the Record Link experiments. Pressed TV/AV, Menu, Record
Setup, and enabled Record Link.

10) TV/AV to get back to SKY on 'AV1/RGB'.

11) At ~ 2:20 used Autoview on ITV3 for 2:30. Switched to SKY BBC1 and
watched that while waiting. But I didn't expect anything to happen, as
I had not used Timer Set on VCR remote. (So LED was not on on VCR.)
And, apart from the usual warning message from SKY box at 2:29, no
recording did occur.

12) Repeated for a 2:45 programme, but this time I did press Timer Set
after the Autoview setup.

13) But it IMMEDIATELY started recording, at about 2:35. This is same
exasperating behaviour I reported in previous thread, and to Philips
Tech Support. Worst aspect (until I found out what to do) is that I
cannot then *stop* the recording, either with STOP, Pressing Timer
Set, or even Switching VCR to Standby. The only way to stop it is to
switch SKY box off (-- 'AV1', black screen). Can then also switch off
Timer Set.

Ah, I think I can see the problem. As I explained in my previous post,
Record Link works by the VCR being triggered into recording by a signal
coming down its SCART lead from the Digibox. Therefore the Digibox has to be
'asleep', i.e. in standby mode, before the recording is due to start. It's
the act of the Skybox switching on that triggers the recording to start on
the VCR.

I don't have a Skybox so I don't know exactly how they function, but I would
think that you use Autoview to programme a channel change at a certain time,
but there should be a means of switching it to standby until its time to
switch channels. After the programmed 'off' time the Skybox should switch
back to standby - this would then stop the recording on the VCR.

The problem with your experiment is that you are not switching the Skybox to
standby after setting Autoview. Therefore, as soon as you hit 'timer set' on
the VCR is detects that the Skybox is on (via the SCART) and immediately
jumps into action - that is what it's supposed to do. It's a safety feature
that means you cannot stop the recording until the Skybox is off, this
protects your recording. As you've found, once the Skybox is switched off
the recording stops and you can deselect Timer Record.

14) I switched Timer set back on again at 2:44, just in time hopefully
to test my 2:45 recording again. Something odd then happened. It *did*
start recording, but stopped gain about a minute later. I'd expected
it to continue for 30 mins or so (Athletics on BBC2). And when it
stopped, 'E2' on the VCR had become '----'.

Not sure about that - was the Skybox on or off at that point?

15) Tried yet again, setting recording with Autoview for 3:00 pm and
this time switching TV (on AV1) to Ch 2 terrestrial while waiting. But
that made no difference. As soon as I pressed Timer Set, the same
happened: immediate recording.

Indeed, because the Skybox was on!

So my conclusion remains as before. Record Link doesn't work. Even if
it did, as you point out, it would be pretty useless in practice, as I
would be unable to watch something else on SKY before or during the
recording.

You wouldn't before the recording as the Skybox would be off, but you
wouldn't during the recording either - remember, you only have one Sky
tuner! You've proved to me that Record Link does work, but it might not be
the best way to proceed if you cannot set a start and stop time on the
Skybox itself as part of the Autoview feature.

To reiterate, the Skybox should be in standby before the recording is due to
start, it will then switch itself on via Autoview and trigger the recording
to start in the VCR. At the appointed 'switch off' time the Skybox will
switch off and this will trigger the VCR to stop recording.

If the Skybox is unable to switch itself on and off at preset times then you
cannot use Record Link. You will just have to programme the VCR in the old
fashioned way - start time/stop time/channel (i.e. the SCART 002) and ensure
that the Skybox is left with the desired channel selected (or Autoview
programmed to change the channel if you're not there).

Therefore I think I must reconcile myself to using the VCR
Timer setup menu. Very tedious, especially as (before SKY) I used to
use the very convenient PlusVideo feature, simply entering a programme
code.

You can still use this function for timer recording terrestrial programmes.
The VCR has it's own terrestrial tuner.

The SKY people echo my son's advice: scrap this and get SKY Plus. But
that will have to wait. I just don't want *any* subscription, and
having forked out £150 (plus extras for chimney mount, plus IR add-on
necessary because SKY box not visible), I'm determined to get some
value out of it. Apart from that, I hate unsolved puzzles!

Well we're getting nearer with the puzzle! Skyplus would be better of course
but once you've cracked the current setup it will be ok for now. Does your
son have a boffin/geek friend who could have a look? Maybe it's not
necessary now, perhaps you'll be able to crack it yourself.

By the way, I've been reading about Sky's Autoview feature on the Digital
Spy forum and it seems a little buggy, or at least it was last year. It
seems that sometimes it doesn't switch on the Skybox, especially on the BBC
channels, so therefore the recording is not triggered on the VCR.

Perhaps see how it goes, you might have to record the old fashioned way,
even if you manage to crack Record Link.

Paul, Phil: Thanks both, greatly appreciate your help. Much to study
there. Reckon I'll get back on the case tomorrow - or later if the sun
tempts me out for a hike g.

Meanwhile, there is one key point on page 34 of the Skybox user guide
that seems at odds with your advice to switch it to standby, Paul:
"To record a satellite programme, make su
- you have read the user guide that came with your vide/DVD recorder
- your VCR is set up correctly
- your Sky box is on and tuned to the channel you want to record ---?
- your video/DVD recorder's timer is set"

Or have I misunderstood that point?

Must say I find it incredible that this has proved such a headache!

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK