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FilmFour free on Sky?
On Fri, 26 May 2006 08:11:54 +0200, Jomtien wrote:
Clearly many FTV viewers will in fact be using ex-subscription cards. This makes them just as hard to count as the FTA viewers. Not at all. It would be very easy to count how many cards have been issued and subsequently deactivated to just the free-to-view channels. -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
On 26 May 2006 09:15:28 GMT, MJ Ray wrote:
"homes with a digital satellite set-top box but without a current Sky subscription can receive BBC channels but not ITV1, Channel 4 and Five. Ofcom no longer considers such homes to be digital households." - from Driving Digital Switchover, Ofcom With that one piece of handwaving, Ofcom erased the million homes with non-Sky satellite systems from the statistics at the end of 2003. A million homes? Where does that figure come from? For the purposes that Ofcom require the figures for, homes to be counted as having properly "gone digital" must be able to receive the public service broadcasters. Anything else is interesting but not especially relevant. -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
Zero Tolerance wrote:
Clearly many FTV viewers will in fact be using ex-subscription cards. This makes them just as hard to count as the FTA viewers. Not at all. It would be very easy to count how many cards have been issued and subsequently deactivated to just the free-to-view channels. But it is still impossible to tell whether they are being used or not. Many could be in the bin. It is reasonable to suppose that cards that have been bought will be in use. Cards that have cost nothing could be anywhere. -- Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these. The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5 UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73 BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/ Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/ ---- Only the truth as I see it. No monies return'd. ;-) |
FilmFour free on Sky?
MJ Ray wrote:
"homes with a digital satellite set-top box but without a current Sky subscription can receive BBC channels but not ITV1, Channel 4 and Five. Ofcom no longer considers such homes to be digital households." - from Driving Digital Switchover, Ofcom That's not only a damn stupid idea but completely wrong to boot, as the only thing needed then or now was a valid card: not a valid sub. Mind you, what can one expect from Ofcom? -- Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these. The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5 UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73 BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/ Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/ ---- Only the truth as I see it. No monies return'd. ;-) |
FilmFour free on Sky?
Nigel Barker wrote:
With that one piece of handwaving, Ofcom erased the million homes with non-Sky satellite systems from the statistics at the end of 2003. Any evidence for that figure of 1,000,000? It seems an improbably large number for the UK considering how difficult it is to buy a non-Sky satellite receiver. He is presumably including all those with Sky boxes but no valid Sky sub, just as Ofcom did. -- Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these. The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5 UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73 BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/ Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/ ---- Only the truth as I see it. No monies return'd. ;-) |
UK FTA size (was: FilmFour free on Sky?)
Nigel Barker
On 26 May 2006 09:15:28 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: With that one piece of handwaving, Ofcom erased the million homes with non-Sky satellite systems from the statistics at the end of 2003. Any evidence for that figure of 1,000,000? It's where the trend from the Ofcom DTV Update figures up to Q3 2003 would probably have reached had they not changed the method of counting in Q4 2003. It seems an improbably large number for the UK considering how difficult it is to buy a non-Sky satellite receiver. Yes, I think the Ofcom figures are crap, but they're all we have, as far as I know. Does anyone have other official figures? It's fairly easy to buy them, available from online shops, a few supermarkets and specialist installers, but not as easy *or* *as* *cheap* as it would be in a free and fair market. They're not as easy to use as other European systems because of Sky's involvement in EPG production and discouragement of Ceefax. How do we get the competition commission to stop Sky's scandals? -- MJR/slef Sat FAQ: http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2006/astefaq |
FilmFour free on Sky?
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FilmFour free on Sky?
On Sat, 27 May 2006 09:35:05 +0200, Jomtien wrote:
Nigel Barker wrote: Any evidence for that figure of 1,000,000? It seems an improbably large number for the UK considering how difficult it is to buy a non-Sky satellite receiver. He is presumably including all those with Sky boxes but no valid Sky sub, just as Ofcom did. If he is, then describing that figure as "homes with non-Sky satellite systems" is a bit rich. -- |
UK FTA size (was: FilmFour free on Sky?)
On 27 May 2006 11:10:25 GMT, MJ Ray wrote:
It's where the trend from the Ofcom DTV Update figures up to Q3 2003 would probably have reached had they not changed the method of counting in Q4 2003. That figure is not homes with non-Sky equipment. As the Q3 2003 DTV Update says itself: "These figures comprise an estimate of the number of Sky viewers who have only ever been FTA viewers plus an estimate of the number of ex-Sky subscribers who continue to use their set-top boxes for viewing FTA channels." It's fairly easy to buy them, available from online shops, a few supermarkets and specialist installers, but not as easy *or* *as* *cheap* as it would be in a free and fair market. They're not as easy to use as other European systems because of Sky's involvement in EPG production and discouragement of Ceefax. It's not Sky's fault that other European boxes can't string together a decent EPG. Nor is it Sky's fault that Ceefax was "discouraged" - that was exclusively the fault of the BBC and their mania to break the cycle of all the embarrassing research that showed how the majority of digital viewers still preferred to use Ceefax as it was better than BBCi. Easily solved by the BBC taking the better service away. How do we get the competition commission to stop Sky's scandals? Well if there are indeed any "scandals" then the first thing "we" would need to do would be to get our facts straight.. -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote:
On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
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FilmFour free on Sky?
Nigel Barker wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2006 12:35:31 GMT, (Zero Tolerance) wrote: On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. If you want to receive Channel 4 via satellite then you must pay for an access card. For C4's other channels that are FTA on DVB-T (Freeview) (E4 & More4) then you must subscribe to a Sky package. By any definition this makes C4 a Pay TV channels on satellite. I watch Channel 4 via satellite, I've never paid anything for the card. -- Adrian |
FilmFour free on Sky?
On Sat, 27 May 2006 15:11:47 +0100, "Adrian A" wrote:
Nigel Barker wrote: On Sat, 27 May 2006 12:35:31 GMT, (Zero Tolerance) wrote: On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. If you want to receive Channel 4 via satellite then you must pay for an access card. For C4's other channels that are FTA on DVB-T (Freeview) (E4 & More4) then you must subscribe to a Sky package. By any definition this makes C4 a Pay TV channels on satellite. I watch Channel 4 via satellite, I've never paid anything for the card. It's been some years now since the BBC stopped handing out free access cards. If you want to watch C4 on satellite nowadays you must pay for an access card. -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur |
FilmFour free on Sky?
"Adrian A" wrote in message ... Nigel Barker wrote: On Sat, 27 May 2006 12:35:31 GMT, (Zero Tolerance) wrote: On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. If you want to receive Channel 4 via satellite then you must pay for an access card. For C4's other channels that are FTA on DVB-T (Freeview) (E4 & More4) then you must subscribe to a Sky package. By any definition this makes C4 a Pay TV channels on satellite. I watch Channel 4 via satellite, I've never paid anything for the card. -- Adrian The fee is £20 plus VAT last time I paid for a card for someone. If you don't pay the fee, you don't get Channel 4 or FIVE. You also don't get MORE4 which is also supposedly "free to air". |
FilmFour free on Sky?
Heracles Pollux wrote:
"Adrian A" wrote in message ... Nigel Barker wrote: On Sat, 27 May 2006 12:35:31 GMT, (Zero Tolerance) wrote: On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. If you want to receive Channel 4 via satellite then you must pay for an access card. For C4's other channels that are FTA on DVB-T (Freeview) (E4 & More4) then you must subscribe to a Sky package. By any definition this makes C4 a Pay TV channels on satellite. I watch Channel 4 via satellite, I've never paid anything for the card. -- Adrian The fee is £20 plus VAT last time I paid for a card for someone. If you don't pay the fee, you don't get Channel 4 or FIVE. You also don't get MORE4 which is also supposedly "free to air". I have 4 cards, none of which cost me anything. I know that's no longer the case but that doesn't make C4 a pay channel, unlike MORE4, which you still need a Sky subscription to watch via D-SAT, it's only free on DTT. -- Adrian |
FilmFour free on Sky?
Thus spaketh Jomtien:
Nigel Barker wrote: Our local Carrefour has FTA digital satellite receivers for just 37 Euros or just over twenty pounds! I doubt that the build quality is anywhere near that of a current Sky box. Which can only be a good thing, as you can't get any worse. So you must mean it will be superior. -- Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk 3p/min & 1p Texts, EasyMobile, For £5 airtime bonus contact via: www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk |
UK FTA size (was: FilmFour free on Sky?)
Zero Tolerance wrote:
They're not as easy to use as other European systems because of Sky's involvement in EPG production and discouragement of Ceefax. It's not Sky's fault that other European boxes can't string together a decent EPG. There is a common standard for EPG data transmission and Sky deliberately does not comply with it. If they did, the full 7 day EPG would be visible on any box. It doesn't take much imagination to realise why they don't. -- Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these. The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5 UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73 BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/ Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/ ---- Only the truth as I see it. No monies return'd. ;-) |
FilmFour free on Sky?
"Adrian A" wrote in message ... Heracles Pollux wrote: "Adrian A" wrote in message ... Nigel Barker wrote: On Sat, 27 May 2006 12:35:31 GMT, (Zero Tolerance) wrote: On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. If you want to receive Channel 4 via satellite then you must pay for an access card. For C4's other channels that are FTA on DVB-T (Freeview) (E4 & More4) then you must subscribe to a Sky package. By any definition this makes C4 a Pay TV channels on satellite. I watch Channel 4 via satellite, I've never paid anything for the card. -- Adrian The fee is £20 plus VAT last time I paid for a card for someone. If you don't pay the fee, you don't get Channel 4 or FIVE. You also don't get MORE4 which is also supposedly "free to air". I have 4 cards, none of which cost me anything. I know that's no longer the case but that doesn't make C4 a pay channel, unlike MORE4, which you still need a Sky subscription to watch via D-SAT, it's only free on DTT. -- Adrian It is a semantic, pedantic and rhetorical point we both make. |
UK FTA size (was: FilmFour free on Sky?)
"Jomtien" wrote in message ... Zero Tolerance wrote: They're not as easy to use as other European systems because of Sky's involvement in EPG production and discouragement of Ceefax. It's not Sky's fault that other European boxes can't string together a decent EPG. There is a common standard for EPG data transmission and Sky deliberately does not comply with it. If they did, the full 7 day EPG would be visible on any box. It doesn't take much imagination to realise why they don't. -- According to my Sony Wega, it's called the programmführer which I see just by switch to my German satellite channels. ;-) |
UK FTA size (was: FilmFour free on Sky?)
On Sun, 28 May 2006 08:48:29 +0200, Jomtien wrote:
There is a common standard for EPG data transmission and Sky deliberately does not comply with it. If they did, the full 7 day EPG would be visible on any box. It doesn't take much imagination to realise why they don't. No demand, clearly. -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
On Sat, 27 May 2006 13:27:12 GMT, Nigel Barker wrote:
If you want to receive Channel 4 via satellite then you must pay for an access card. For C4's other channels that are FTA on DVB-T (Freeview) (E4 & More4) then you must subscribe to a Sky package. By any definition this makes C4 a Pay TV channels on satellite. If you want to receive QVC then you must pay for a television. By any definition this makes QVC a pay TV channel. Except it doesn't. The cost of reception equipment is irrelevant. If you don't pay an ongoing subscription for it, it's not pay TV. -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message ... On Sat, 27 May 2006 13:27:12 GMT, Nigel Barker wrote: If you want to receive Channel 4 via satellite then you must pay for an access card. For C4's other channels that are FTA on DVB-T (Freeview) (E4 & More4) then you must subscribe to a Sky package. By any definition this makes C4 a Pay TV channels on satellite. If you want to receive QVC then you must pay for a television. By any definition this makes QVC a pay TV channel. Except it doesn't. The cost of reception equipment is irrelevant. If you don't pay an ongoing subscription for it, it's not pay TV. Or the electricity to power said TV, also not free, unless you live in certain estates in Scumchester and Liverpool that is.... |
UK FTA size (was: FilmFour free on Sky?)
Zero Tolerance wrote:
There is a common standard for EPG data transmission and Sky deliberately does not comply with it. If they did, the full 7 day EPG would be visible on any box. It doesn't take much imagination to realise why they don't. No demand, clearly. No, to remove the demand. -- Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these. The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5 UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73 BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/ Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/ ---- Only the truth as I see it. No monies return'd. ;-) |
FilmFour free on Sky?
(Zero Tolerance)
On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. It is a non-subscription pay-TV channel. Subscription is not the only form of pay-TV. Hope that helps, -- MJR/slef Sat FAQ: http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2006/astefaq |
FilmFour free on Sky?
"MJ Ray" wrote in message reenews.net... 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. It is a non-subscription pay-TV channel. Subscription is not the only form of pay-TV. OK, with that broad approach is there any example of a channel that isn't a form of pay TV? Loz |
FilmFour free on Sky?
"MJ Ray" wrote in message reenews.net... (Zero Tolerance) On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. It is a non-subscription pay-TV channel. Subscription is not the only form of pay-TV. I have channel 4 on my Sky box, I don't subscribe to Sky. Therefore it's a free non-subscription channel. How can it be a pay channel if I don't have to pay to receive it? |
FilmFour free on Sky?
"Brian Wescombe" wrote in message ... "MJ Ray" wrote in message reenews.net... (Zero Tolerance) On 27 May 2006 11:10:26 GMT, MJ Ray wrote: On satellite, Channel 4 is a pay-TV channel, not a public service broadcaster. Channel 4 does not require a subscription - it is not pay TV. It is a non-subscription pay-TV channel. Subscription is not the only form of pay-TV. I have channel 4 on my Sky box, I don't subscribe to Sky. Therefore it's a free non-subscription channel. How can it be a pay channel if I don't have to pay to receive it? I think the (tenous) argument is that you originally paid for a Sky card, hence its a 'pay' channel (whereas for say, BBC1 it would work without a card) -- Tumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com |
FilmFour free on Sky?
On Mon, 29 May 2006 22:06:40 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: I think the (tenous) argument is that you originally paid for a Sky card, hence its a 'pay' channel (whereas for say, BBC1 it would work without a card) But you pay for a TV licence, so BBC1 must be 'pay-tv' too. (Except it STILL isn't, of course.) :-) -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
(Zero Tolerance)
On Mon, 29 May 2006 22:06:40 +0100, "Tumbleweed" wrote: I think the (tenous) argument is that you originally paid for a Sky card, hence its a 'pay' channel (whereas for say, BBC1 it would work without a card) But you pay for a TV licence, so BBC1 must be 'pay-tv' too. No, the TV licence is not linked to viewing of BBC channels. Face it: Public Service Broadcasters should not encrypt in only one platform owner's system. That's anti-competitive bundling. -- MJR/slef Free Sat FAQ: http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2006/astefaq |
FilmFour free on Sky?
On 30 May 2006 12:35:01 GMT, MJ Ray wrote:
Face it: Public Service Broadcasters should not encrypt in only one platform owner's system. That's anti-competitive bundling. Absolutely. But how many other satellite encryption platforms exist in the UK? None which are major enough for it to be worth the PSBs simulcrypting with. -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
Zero Tolerance wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2006 22:06:40 +0100, "Tumbleweed" wrote: I think the (tenous) argument is that you originally paid for a Sky card, hence its a 'pay' channel (whereas for say, BBC1 it would work without a card) But you pay for a TV licence, so BBC1 must be 'pay-tv' too. So when my FTV card expires (because Sky change the encryption scheme) it will be replaced by Sky free of charge ? If not, then in my book that's an 'ongoing cost' ? |
FilmFour free on Sky?
sky and free surely an oxymoron
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FilmFour free on Sky?
On 30 May 2006 09:10:23 -0700, "Mark Carver"
wrote: But you pay for a TV licence, so BBC1 must be 'pay-tv' too. So when my FTV card expires (because Sky change the encryption scheme) it will be replaced by Sky free of charge ? If not, then in my book that's an 'ongoing cost' ? No more an ongoing cost than buying a new TV every time the old one breaks, and not one which is specific to any particular TV channel in any case. -- |
FilmFour free on Sky?
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FilmFour free on Sky?
"Nigel Barker" wrote in message ... On Wed, 31 May 2006 11:03:56 GMT, (Zero Tolerance) wrote: On 30 May 2006 09:10:23 -0700, "Mark Carver" wrote: But you pay for a TV licence, so BBC1 must be 'pay-tv' too. So when my FTV card expires (because Sky change the encryption scheme) it will be replaced by Sky free of charge ? If not, then in my book that's an 'ongoing cost' ? No more an ongoing cost than buying a new TV every time the old one breaks, and not one which is specific to any particular TV channel in any case. The FTV cards are specific to Channel 4, five & Sky Three. -- And the TV licence is specific to the BBC |
FilmFour free on Sky?
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FilmFour free on Sky?
In article ,
Big Al Big wrote: The FTV cards are specific to Channel 4, five & Sky Three. And the TV licence is specific to the BBC No it isn't. The TV licence is *not* payment for watching BBC programs but for having broadcast receiving equipment. -- John Cartmell [email protected] followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing |
FilmFour free on Sky?
In article ,
Big Al Big wrote: "Nigel Barker" wrote in message ... On Wed, 31 May 2006 11:03:56 GMT, (Zero Tolerance) wrote: On 30 May 2006 09:10:23 -0700, "Mark Carver" wrote: But you pay for a TV licence, so BBC1 must be 'pay-tv' too. So when my FTV card expires (because Sky change the encryption scheme) it will be replaced by Sky free of charge ? If not, then in my book that's an 'ongoing cost' ? No more an ongoing cost than buying a new TV every time the old one breaks, and not one which is specific to any particular TV channel in any case. The FTV cards are specific to Channel 4, five & Sky Three. -- And the TV licence is specific to the BBC No, It's not. The TV Licence is a permit which allows you to watch broadcast tv - from any source - even if you only watch Sky. Yes, the money from the Licence is used to fund the BBC and now its even colleced by the BBC (or its agent) since the Post Office - as the Government agency - seemed incapable of getting its sums right, but is not specific to the BBC. -- From KT24 - in drought-ridden Surrey Using a RISC OS5 computer |
FilmFour free on Sky?
John Cartmell wrote:
In article , Big Al Big wrote: The FTV cards are specific to Channel 4, five & Sky Three. And the TV licence is specific to the BBC No it isn't. The TV licence is *not* payment for watching BBC programs but for having broadcast receiving equipment. Don't Channel 4 and possibly ITV get some money from it as well for their public service broadcasts? Like regional programming for instance. Or has that all stopped now? Stewart |
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