Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Hey Bob,

You were being discussed over at the AV Science forum and I wonderered
if you had any news on 5th generation or even 6th generation
over-the-air HDTV receivers, either under development or available to
the poublic now.

IB

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Bob Miller wrote:

OTA DTV is basically dead in the US, a non issue, with everyone waiting
to see what Crown Castle and Qualcomm do with cell based DTV.

Bob Miller


Only in YOUR world is OTA DTV dead. In the REAL world there are
hundreds of digital stations on the air with millions of people watching
them daily.
--
Bill R.

Remove nospam_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Bill R wrote:
Bob Miller wrote:


OTA DTV is basically dead in the US, a non issue, with everyone
waiting to see what Crown Castle and Qualcomm do with cell based DTV.

Bob Miller



Only in YOUR world is OTA DTV dead. In the REAL world there are
hundreds of digital stations on the air with millions of people watching
them daily.


99.9% of the reason any station is on the air digitally or analog is for
must carry rights on cable. Saying that digital stations are on the air
for their digital OTA customers is ridiculous.

There are 110 million households in the US of which 15% still depend on
OTA for their TV fix. The other 85% have cable or satellite. Most of
that 15% don't have cable or satellite because they can't afford it.
They are NOT prime prospects for digital OTA HDTV. They for the most
part, 99%, don't know what DTV is, how to get it OTA or even care since
they can't afford a decent DTV set.

So how many households who have cable also have OTA and use it? .0001%
maybe.

So how many of the 15% OTA only homes have a digital OTA receiver today?
.001% maybe.

How many satellite customers have OTA and use it? More but not
significant and they only are using OTA because of a political
protection racket for broadcasters which doesn't allow satellite
entities to provide local stations.

How many consumers will use OTA DTV for any reason in the long term the
way it is set up today? Very few and the number will continue to fall
toward zero.

How many use OTA today for any reason? Millions? Where are they? Could
you show some data on the subject? I can't find any.

In August of 2004 the two entities most likely to exaggerate OTA usage,
MSTV and the NAB, said this

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...817/index.html

"About 6.4 million DTV sets are in use in U.S. homes, of which about 23
percent are used for OTA DTV reception."

So the exaggerated number of those using OTA in the US was 1.5 million
in 2004. That probably includes all OTA receivers ever sold including
those gathering dust in the backroom of every TV station, cable company
and retail outlet plus.

How many have bought OTA receivers since then to actually use not
because they were mandated into DTV sets? Very few.

Maybe there are 2 million OTA DTV receivers actually being used in the
US. I guess that would qualify for your "millions" but it does not
change the fact that OTA is virtually dead.

Few are buying OTA, broadcasters are paying little or no attention to it.

Manufacturers are stopping production of OTA stand alone receivers
witness LG the owner of most of the patents for 8-VSB.

No one is educating the public about OTA.

The FCC and Congress could care less.

Do you have any evidence that there is or will be a resurgence in OTA?
Stagnation at its current level is a guarantee of its demise. Any more
loss of viewers is a guarantee of its demise.

Is there anyone or entity that is trying to revive OTA accept USDTV? And
you probably can't stand their multicast business plan anyway.

Bob Miller

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Bob Miller wrote:
OTA DTV is basically dead in the US, a non issue, with everyone waiting
to see what Crown Castle and Qualcomm do with cell based DTV.

Bob Miller

Bob, you truly are an idiot.

Chip

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Bob Miller wrote:

"OTA DTV is basically dead in the US, a non issue, with everyone
waiting
to see what Crown Castle and Qualcomm do with cell based DTV."

Bob Miller
-----------------

Bob,

Well I use OTA exclusively and in my area I get all the big name
digital channels except Fox, which is still using a tiny little joke of
a transmitter. The other stations have gradually upped their power and
will continue to increase signal strength until the big switch-over,
which should give digital transmission the full effort it needs. I am
still using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna in a ground floor apartment
of a four story building with a metal roof and no windows facing any
station. Our system may not be the best in the world, but it does
work. At full power it will work even better and I hope the 5th
generation chips will get into all the stand alone over-the-air
receiver boxes that will come to stores sometime. When, I don't know.

What ever happened to that 6th generation chip you once talked about
that was much better than even the LG 5th generation chip? What is the
name of the compay that was working on that project?

IB

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Bob Miller wrote:

Is there anyone or entity that is trying to revive OTA accept USDTV? And
you probably can't stand their multicast business plan anyway.

Bob Miller

Until you can at the least get your grammar correct, you will be considered a buffoon.

Chip

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

I am a dish user and I use OTA. In fact, I imagine most Dish people with
HD do since until recently if they wanted HD locals they had to add an
antenna to the 811 box. I have been watching OTA HD for about a year now
with just a tiny little Silver Sensor antenna on top of my entertainment
center. I am about 20 miles from the towers. My signal is nice and clear.
The picture I get is so much nicer than the fuzzy picture on the analog
channels. OTA DTV is working and working well.

But on the other hand, I see your point about some things. Isn't it a bit
retarded that only 5 or so channels are obtainable OTA and the 100+ other
channels we watch have to come from a cable or dish? It just doesn't make
sense!! Local and national broadcast engineers should work together to come
up with some solution where we normal Joe TV views can buy a TV set, plug it
in and not have to deal with cable or satellit boxes. I don't know the
answer to it but it is a waste of money how things work now.


"Bob Miller" wrote in message
ink.net...
Bill R wrote:
Bob Miller wrote:


OTA DTV is basically dead in the US, a non issue, with everyone waiting
to see what Crown Castle and Qualcomm do with cell based DTV.

Bob Miller



Only in YOUR world is OTA DTV dead. In the REAL world there are hundreds
of digital stations on the air with millions of people watching them
daily.


99.9% of the reason any station is on the air digitally or analog is for
must carry rights on cable. Saying that digital stations are on the air
for their digital OTA customers is ridiculous.

There are 110 million households in the US of which 15% still depend on
OTA for their TV fix. The other 85% have cable or satellite. Most of that
15% don't have cable or satellite because they can't afford it. They are
NOT prime prospects for digital OTA HDTV. They for the most part, 99%,
don't know what DTV is, how to get it OTA or even care since they can't
afford a decent DTV set.

So how many households who have cable also have OTA and use it? .0001%
maybe.

So how many of the 15% OTA only homes have a digital OTA receiver today?
.001% maybe.

How many satellite customers have OTA and use it? More but not significant
and they only are using OTA because of a political protection racket for
broadcasters which doesn't allow satellite entities to provide local
stations.

How many consumers will use OTA DTV for any reason in the long term the
way it is set up today? Very few and the number will continue to fall
toward zero.

How many use OTA today for any reason? Millions? Where are they? Could you
show some data on the subject? I can't find any.

In August of 2004 the two entities most likely to exaggerate OTA usage,
MSTV and the NAB, said this

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...817/index.html

"About 6.4 million DTV sets are in use in U.S. homes, of which about 23
percent are used for OTA DTV reception."

So the exaggerated number of those using OTA in the US was 1.5 million in
2004. That probably includes all OTA receivers ever sold including those
gathering dust in the backroom of every TV station, cable company and
retail outlet plus.

How many have bought OTA receivers since then to actually use not because
they were mandated into DTV sets? Very few.

Maybe there are 2 million OTA DTV receivers actually being used in the US.
I guess that would qualify for your "millions" but it does not change the
fact that OTA is virtually dead.

Few are buying OTA, broadcasters are paying little or no attention to it.

Manufacturers are stopping production of OTA stand alone receivers witness
LG the owner of most of the patents for 8-VSB.

No one is educating the public about OTA.

The FCC and Congress could care less.

Do you have any evidence that there is or will be a resurgence in OTA?
Stagnation at its current level is a guarantee of its demise. Any more
loss of viewers is a guarantee of its demise.

Is there anyone or entity that is trying to revive OTA accept USDTV? And
you probably can't stand their multicast business plan anyway.

Bob Miller

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

Gary H wrote:
I am a dish user and I use OTA. In fact, I imagine most Dish people with
HD do since until recently if they wanted HD locals they had to add an
antenna to the 811 box. I have been watching OTA HD for about a year now
with just a tiny little Silver Sensor antenna on top of my entertainment
center. I am about 20 miles from the towers. My signal is nice and clear.
The picture I get is so much nicer than the fuzzy picture on the analog
channels. OTA DTV is working and working well.

It does work well for many. But it does not work well enough to attract
those who would offer competitive offerings to cable and satellite. In
other countries their OTA works much better and has attracted both
content and viewers unlike anything seen before in broadcasting.

In the UK they have sold around 13 million OTA receivers in the last
three years and sales are accelerating. This is because Freeview offers
30 channels of free DTV and 12 or so digital radio channels. You can
also buy a set of pay channels on top of that for a modest amount. They
are so successful that channels that were only available on cable or
satellite by subscription have opted to switch to Freeview and exist
only on advertising support instead of both advertising and cable fees.

It would be nice to have competition in the US from our OTA spectrum to
counter the ever increasing cost of cable and satellite but it will not
happen with our current modulation and must carry laws.

With the current must carry and retransmission consent broadcasters make
more money if viewers get their content via subscription. It is NOT in
the best interest of broadcasters if you get their content FREE OTA.

Is there any wonder why they pay little interest in OTA? Every customer
that drops cable for OTA is lost revenue for them. They, arguably, would
not want to have a good modulation that allowed their customers to
actually receive OTA easily and for free.

And now, this next month, the FCC with Chairman Martin at the helm will
give broadcasters their Holy Grail, must carry of their multicast
signals. Say goodbye to a lot of true OTA HD as the competitve pressure
to offer more programming that cable MUST CARRY will be over powering.

Broadcasters have been spending millions for years trying to get this.
Looks like they won at least for now.

Bob Miller

But on the other hand, I see your point about some things. Isn't it a bit
retarded that only 5 or so channels are obtainable OTA and the 100+ other
channels we watch have to come from a cable or dish? It just doesn't make
sense!! Local and national broadcast engineers should work together to come
up with some solution where we normal Joe TV views can buy a TV set, plug it
in and not have to deal with cable or satellit boxes. I don't know the
answer to it but it is a waste of money how things work now.


"Bob Miller" wrote in message
ink.net...

Bill R wrote:

Bob Miller wrote:


OTA DTV is basically dead in the US, a non issue, with everyone waiting
to see what Crown Castle and Qualcomm do with cell based DTV.

Bob Miller



Only in YOUR world is OTA DTV dead. In the REAL world there are hundreds
of digital stations on the air with millions of people watching them
daily.

99.9% of the reason any station is on the air digitally or analog is for
must carry rights on cable. Saying that digital stations are on the air
for their digital OTA customers is ridiculous.

There are 110 million households in the US of which 15% still depend on
OTA for their TV fix. The other 85% have cable or satellite. Most of that
15% don't have cable or satellite because they can't afford it. They are
NOT prime prospects for digital OTA HDTV. They for the most part, 99%,
don't know what DTV is, how to get it OTA or even care since they can't
afford a decent DTV set.

So how many households who have cable also have OTA and use it? .0001%
maybe.

So how many of the 15% OTA only homes have a digital OTA receiver today?
.001% maybe.

How many satellite customers have OTA and use it? More but not significant
and they only are using OTA because of a political protection racket for
broadcasters which doesn't allow satellite entities to provide local
stations.

How many consumers will use OTA DTV for any reason in the long term the
way it is set up today? Very few and the number will continue to fall
toward zero.

How many use OTA today for any reason? Millions? Where are they? Could you
show some data on the subject? I can't find any.

In August of 2004 the two entities most likely to exaggerate OTA usage,
MSTV and the NAB, said this

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...817/index.html

"About 6.4 million DTV sets are in use in U.S. homes, of which about 23
percent are used for OTA DTV reception."

So the exaggerated number of those using OTA in the US was 1.5 million in
2004. That probably includes all OTA receivers ever sold including those
gathering dust in the backroom of every TV station, cable company and
retail outlet plus.

How many have bought OTA receivers since then to actually use not because
they were mandated into DTV sets? Very few.

Maybe there are 2 million OTA DTV receivers actually being used in the US.
I guess that would qualify for your "millions" but it does not change the
fact that OTA is virtually dead.

Few are buying OTA, broadcasters are paying little or no attention to it.

Manufacturers are stopping production of OTA stand alone receivers witness
LG the owner of most of the patents for 8-VSB.

No one is educating the public about OTA.

The FCC and Congress could care less.

Do you have any evidence that there is or will be a resurgence in OTA?
Stagnation at its current level is a guarantee of its demise. Any more
loss of viewers is a guarantee of its demise.

Is there anyone or entity that is trying to revive OTA accept USDTV? And
you probably can't stand their multicast business plan anyway.

Bob Miller

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

One other point Gary, with our current compression codec, MPEG2, we are
also limited in what can be delivered in our broadcast spectrum. While
cable and satellite can opt for any modulation and compression codec and
are, OTA broadcasters are hamstrung both by a poor modulation and out of
date codec with no possibility of change for how long? 50 years?

The FCC locked up both indefinitely in an age where rapid change is
predictable. Why? Because those who own patents for MPEG2 and our
garbage 8-VSB modulation saw that their royalties were at risk and
sought to lock them in by spending lavishly on buying our government.

They were successful.

Even at this early date in its development MPEG4 AVC can deliver twice
what MPEG2 can making our spectrum worth twice as much and making it
possible to deliver strong competitive alternatives to cable and
satellite OTA. It can be expected that MPEG4 AVC will improve a lot with
the ability to deliver three times the content as MPEG2 soon.

But there is no one who is on the consumer side, not your elected
representatives who depend on your ignorance to cover their sell out of
your interest. Not broadcasters who have used your elected
representatives to pass laws, must carry and now multicast must carry,
to protect themselves from their competitors, cable and satellite, by
forcing them to carry their content.

There is no one.

Bob Miller

Gary H wrote:
I am a dish user and I use OTA. In fact, I imagine most Dish people with
HD do since until recently if they wanted HD locals they had to add an
antenna to the 811 box. I have been watching OTA HD for about a year now
with just a tiny little Silver Sensor antenna on top of my entertainment
center. I am about 20 miles from the towers. My signal is nice and clear.
The picture I get is so much nicer than the fuzzy picture on the analog
channels. OTA DTV is working and working well.

But on the other hand, I see your point about some things. Isn't it a bit
retarded that only 5 or so channels are obtainable OTA and the 100+ other
channels we watch have to come from a cable or dish? It just doesn't make
sense!! Local and national broadcast engineers should work together to come
up with some solution where we normal Joe TV views can buy a TV set, plug it
in and not have to deal with cable or satellit boxes. I don't know the
answer to it but it is a waste of money how things work now.


"Bob Miller" wrote in message
ink.net...

Bill R wrote:

Bob Miller wrote:


OTA DTV is basically dead in the US, a non issue, with everyone waiting
to see what Crown Castle and Qualcomm do with cell based DTV.

Bob Miller



Only in YOUR world is OTA DTV dead. In the REAL world there are hundreds
of digital stations on the air with millions of people watching them
daily.

99.9% of the reason any station is on the air digitally or analog is for
must carry rights on cable. Saying that digital stations are on the air
for their digital OTA customers is ridiculous.

There are 110 million households in the US of which 15% still depend on
OTA for their TV fix. The other 85% have cable or satellite. Most of that
15% don't have cable or satellite because they can't afford it. They are
NOT prime prospects for digital OTA HDTV. They for the most part, 99%,
don't know what DTV is, how to get it OTA or even care since they can't
afford a decent DTV set.

So how many households who have cable also have OTA and use it? .0001%
maybe.

So how many of the 15% OTA only homes have a digital OTA receiver today?
.001% maybe.

How many satellite customers have OTA and use it? More but not significant
and they only are using OTA because of a political protection racket for
broadcasters which doesn't allow satellite entities to provide local
stations.

How many consumers will use OTA DTV for any reason in the long term the
way it is set up today? Very few and the number will continue to fall
toward zero.

How many use OTA today for any reason? Millions? Where are they? Could you
show some data on the subject? I can't find any.

In August of 2004 the two entities most likely to exaggerate OTA usage,
MSTV and the NAB, said this

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...817/index.html

"About 6.4 million DTV sets are in use in U.S. homes, of which about 23
percent are used for OTA DTV reception."

So the exaggerated number of those using OTA in the US was 1.5 million in
2004. That probably includes all OTA receivers ever sold including those
gathering dust in the backroom of every TV station, cable company and
retail outlet plus.

How many have bought OTA receivers since then to actually use not because
they were mandated into DTV sets? Very few.

Maybe there are 2 million OTA DTV receivers actually being used in the US.
I guess that would qualify for your "millions" but it does not change the
fact that OTA is virtually dead.

Few are buying OTA, broadcasters are paying little or no attention to it.

Manufacturers are stopping production of OTA stand alone receivers witness
LG the owner of most of the patents for 8-VSB.

No one is educating the public about OTA.

The FCC and Congress could care less.

Do you have any evidence that there is or will be a resurgence in OTA?
Stagnation at its current level is a guarantee of its demise. Any more
loss of viewers is a guarantee of its demise.

Is there anyone or entity that is trying to revive OTA accept USDTV? And
you probably can't stand their multicast business plan anyway.

Bob Miller

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

I guess I am the insignificant minority who only watches OTA almost
execlusively HD. I am about 45 miles away from Philadelphia and have
a Radio Shack antenna laying in attic (not even mounted). I can get
all the major network, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and PBS (all in HD) and
others, UPN, PAX, WB and independent (mostly SD with multicasts). The HD
picuture quality is excellent if the original materials are HD and that
of SD is much better then analog. I occasionally
have reception problem when there is a thunder storm. I hope this will
happen less often when DTV's are swithed to full power. All together, HD
and SD, I get almost 30 channels. I mostly only watch PBS and major network
news. Sometimes during the lull period, I ask myself "do I miss anything
without cable?" I checked many times in the news papers TV program,
I could not find anything worthy watching anyway. So I don't miss anything.
I certainly can afford cable, DirctTV and/or satellite. Why waste
money when I can get all I need free. Definitely there is nothing wrong
with the current US HDTV system. If there is any, I have not noticed
of them during the past several years. I think if you live in a good
reception area which can be 50 miles away from the towers and are
not interested in old movies and shows, some of the talk shows, and
all the sports, you will be fine with OTA. Actually one of the PBS
station (Ch. 12) is still testing HD broadcasting and often shows very
interesting programs (to me anyway) not availalbe elsewhere. I hope
more people who have similar watching pattern and situation will switch
back to OTA. There are definitely more than 15% in this category in
the population.



In article ,
Gary H wrote:
I am a dish user and I use OTA. In fact, I imagine most Dish people with
HD do since until recently if they wanted HD locals they had to add an
antenna to the 811 box. I have been watching OTA HD for about a year now
with just a tiny little Silver Sensor antenna on top of my entertainment
center. I am about 20 miles from the towers. My signal is nice and clear.
The picture I get is so much nicer than the fuzzy picture on the analog
channels. OTA DTV is working and working well.

But on the other hand, I see your point about some things. Isn't it a bit
retarded that only 5 or so channels are obtainable OTA and the 100+ other
channels we watch have to come from a cable or dish? It just doesn't make
sense!! Local and national broadcast engineers should work together to come
up with some solution where we normal Joe TV views can buy a TV set, plug it
in and not have to deal with cable or satellit boxes. I don't know the
answer to it but it is a waste of money how things work now.


"Bob Miller" wrote in message

15% don't have cable or satellite because they can't afford it. They are
NOT prime prospects for digital OTA HDTV. They for the most part, 99%,
don't know what DTV is, how to get it OTA or even care since they can't
afford a decent DTV set.


Bob Miller

Calling Bob Miller! Calling Bob Miller!
 

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
nk.net...

It does work well for many. But it does not work well enough to attract
those who would offer competitive offerings to cable and satellite. In
other countries their OTA works much better and has attracted both content
and viewers unlike anything seen before in broadcasting.

===============================
It will work perfectly for MOST people in urban areas.
The problem is that hardly anyone knows that they can get it with an
antenna.
The stores sure keep it secret since they get commissions from the
dish/cable services.

OTA is all I have...........
I know others who have only OTA.
All of us are very pleased.