TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

The upfront cost can be a bit hard to swallow, esp. for the S3 if it
comes out in the $1000 area. I think that's why Tivo is switching over
to an amortized hardware cost rather than a lump sum model.

Just an accounting note: Hardware is depreciated not amortized.

Things that are intangible, like goodwill, a mortgage, intellectual propery
are amortized.

But your analogy to writing off the cost is very accurate.


I believe the OTA guide data is typically very error prone

Maybe it depends on the market, but I've found here in Chicago, the OTA
guide is very accurate and up to date. I use it all the time for HD program
info which otherwise is hard to find.

But I think we all agree that Tivo is by far the most superior product out
there. Let's hope it survives. Somehow.

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

Bob wrote:
The upfront cost can be a bit hard to swallow, esp. for the S3 if it
comes out in the $1000 area. I think that's why Tivo is switching over
to an amortized hardware cost rather than a lump sum model.

Just an accounting note: Hardware is depreciated not amortized.

Things that are intangible, like goodwill, a mortgage, intellectual propery
are amortized.

But your analogy to writing off the cost is very accurate.

Thank you. I don't think that word meant what I thought it meant ;-).

I believe the OTA guide data is typically very error prone

Maybe it depends on the market, but I've found here in Chicago, the OTA
guide is very accurate and up to date. I use it all the time for HD program
info which otherwise is hard to find.

Well, another thing to consider is, does it contain all the information
needed to use in the manner that Tivo uses it? IOW, does it contain
unique episode identifiers, original air date, repeat status, etc?

But I think we all agree that Tivo is by far the most superior product out
there. Let's hope it survives. Somehow.

Maybe not *all* of us, but most us anyway!

Randy S.

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

Well, another thing to consider is, does it contain all the information
needed to use in the manner that Tivo uses it? IOW, does it contain
unique episode identifiers, original air date, repeat status, etc?


That's a good question. I don't know. How could I tell if it does or
doesn't?

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

"Howard" wrote in message
...
"Bob" wrote in news:JA%Rf.1467$tN3.1327
@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:

The upfront cost can be a bit hard to swallow, esp. for the S3 if it
comes out in the $1000 area. I think that's why Tivo is switching
over
to an amortized hardware cost rather than a lump sum model.

Just an accounting note: Hardware is depreciated not amortized.

What about cost, though?

Amortized: 1) To liquidate (a debt, such as a mortgage) by installment
payments. 2) To write off an expediture (office equipment being one
example) by prorating over a certain period.

For an accountant, definition #2 above is incorrect. A piece of equipment is
tangible, you can pick it up in your hands. That would be depreciated. If
it's a computer, the software you run on the PC is intangible, you can't
pick up the "program". That would be amortized. Granted you could pick up
the CD the code resides on but that is not the software.

Depreciate the $2000 cost of the PC. Amortize the $500 cost of the software
application.


If I sell you a $500 box, and set up a payment scale of $50/month for 10
months, that has been amortized.

The 10 monthly payments would apply as #1 above in terms of the debt owed on
the box, not the box itself. The value of the box in terms of the hardware
would be depreciated. It's really two seperate transactions on your
accounting books. One is reducing your debt (amortized), the second is
reducing the value of your hardware (depreciated).

Depreciated: 1) To lessen the price or value of, to diminish in price or
value.

If at the end of the 10 months, the price I am selling the box for now is
$300, that has been depreciated. The cost, however, is still amortized
over that 10 month period.

Your mixing cost and sales here which aren't really interchangable.

From Tivo's side of it, the "cost", say $250, it costs Tivo to make Tivo
box, the hardware would be depreciated over say 12 months that it is leased
to the customer, as Tivo still owns the box. The income from the $500
"lease" to the customer would be amortized over the same 12 month period. A
profit of $20.83 per month.

If the box is sold to the customer, for Tivo it's a one shot deal, $500 of
revenue vs $250 cost for a profit of $250 at that point. No depreciation or
amortization.

For all practical purposes, both indicate the systematic allocation of the
value of something. From an accountant's standpoint, that allocation would
be amortizing something that is intangible, and depreciating something that
is tangible.

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

Howard wrote:
"Bob" wrote in news:JA%Rf.1467$tN3.1327
@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:


The upfront cost can be a bit hard to swallow, esp. for the S3 if it
comes out in the $1000 area. I think that's why Tivo is switching over
to an amortized hardware cost rather than a lump sum model.

Just an accounting note: Hardware is depreciated not amortized.


What about cost, though?

Amortized: 1) To liquidate (a debt, such as a mortgage) by installment
payments. 2) To write off an expediture (office equipment being one
example) by prorating over a certain period.

If I sell you a $500 box, and set up a payment scale of $50/month for 10
months, that has been amortized.

Depreciated: 1) To lessen the price or value of, to diminish in price or
value.

If at the end of the 10 months, the price I am selling the box for now is
$300, that has been depreciated. The cost, however, is still amortized
over that 10 month period.


Ok, yeah, that's what I meant ;-). Anyway, you guys get the point!

Randy S.

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

Bob wrote:
Well, another thing to consider is, does it contain all the information
needed to use in the manner that Tivo uses it? IOW, does it contain
unique episode identifiers, original air date, repeat status, etc?



That's a good question. I don't know. How could I tell if it does or
doesn't?



I have no idea, we'd have to see the source data.

Randy S.

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

"Randy S." wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:
Well, another thing to consider is, does it contain all the information
needed to use in the manner that Tivo uses it? IOW, does it contain
unique episode identifiers, original air date, repeat status, etc?

That's a good question. I don't know. How could I tell if it does or
doesn't?

I have no idea, we'd have to see the source data.

And regardless, TiVo would still have to pay to utilize that data. Free to
you and me, for use using the software built into TVs and such is not free
to TiVo to use for their commercial application. Just like it is a
copyright violation for TiVo to get their data by scrubbing www.tvguide.com.
Free to end user consumers is not the same as free to a commercial entity.

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

"Howard" wrote in message
...
"Bob" wrote in
. com:


"Howard" wrote in message
...
"Bob" wrote in news:JA%Rf.1467$tN3.1327
@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:

The upfront cost can be a bit hard to swallow, esp. for the S3 if it
comes out in the $1000 area. I think that's why Tivo is switching
over
to an amortized hardware cost rather than a lump sum model.

Just an accounting note: Hardware is depreciated not amortized.

What about cost, though?

Amortized: 1) To liquidate (a debt, such as a mortgage) by installment
payments. 2) To write off an expediture (office equipment being one
example) by prorating over a certain period.

For an accountant, definition #2 above is incorrect. A piece of
equipment is tangible, you can pick it up in your hands. That would be
depreciated. If it's a computer, the software you run on the PC is
intangible, you can't pick up the "program". That would be amortized.

I repeat. What about cost? Can you pick cost up in your hands? The
money, perhaps, but what. about. the. cost.

And I repeat, it's hardware, it's depreciated. The cost, as you refer to it,
is the value of the Tivo box. You can pick up the box, it's hardware, it's
depreciated.

Ah. This may be the source of your confusion...you don't understand the
pricing plan. TiVo does not own the box and is not leasing it to anyone.

There isn't any confusion on my part. That was an example. I know what the
pricing plans are.

But, regardless of the pricing plans if your talking about the Tivo
equipment (hardware), it's depreciation.

If you're talking about the loan you took out to buy the Tivo, that's
amortization.

I've been a CPA for 28 years. I know what depreciation is and I know what
amortization is.




--
"No need to be plain old-fashioned literate."
-Albert Silverman )
December 25, 2005 in misc.consumers
Message-ID:

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

"Peter H. Coffin" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:10:43 -0800, Fred Bloggs wrote:
Personally, I think that TiVo is dead if they continue with the
subscriber
model. The have lost the Directv market, they are unlikely to make a
significant dent in the cable market anytime soon. So all that is left to
them is the OTA market, and the people who don't have satellite or cable
are
the most resistant to paying subscriptions (which is why the don't have
cable or satellite!).

*blinkblink* You mean my Tivo can't work with my satellite box? I better
go unplug it!

No, what mean is that an integrated TiVo/satellite box (like the Directivo
box) is a much better solution for most people. Few people buying new will
buy a stand alone TiVo for use with an external cable or satellite box when
there are integrated boxes available with more functionality at a lower
price.

For the past few years all of TiVo's growth has come from Directv. Directv
now push their own SD box, and will soon have their own HD box, so TiVo will
get very few new customers from DTV. TiVo will need to look elsewhere for
growth. In the cable world, I can get a dual tuner HD DVR from Comcast for
$10 a month, why would I pay significantly more for a stand alone TiVo SD
box with a single tuner that still requires an extra set top box? Even when
the S3 comes out with cable card and HD it will still be a hard sell unless
the price is competitive. If the price is competitive, if you have TiVo with
a cable card and have problems, who do you call TiVo or the cable company -
for some percentage of customers this is going to cause a huge problem when
the two sides blame each other for the problems!

The deal TiVo have with Comcast may save them, but then Comcast will become
their major sales channel and be able to jerk them around and ditch them at
will. Look how they got shafted by DTV - they couldn't implement new
features like HMO and web programming and eventually got ditched for a
younger model!

TiVo announces new pricing plans
 

On 2006-03-16, Fred Bloggs wrote:

"Peter H. Coffin" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:10:43 -0800, Fred Bloggs wrote:
Personally, I think that TiVo is dead if they continue with the
subscriber
model. The have lost the Directv market, they are unlikely to make a
significant dent in the cable market anytime soon. So all that is left to
them is the OTA market, and the people who don't have satellite or cable
are
the most resistant to paying subscriptions (which is why the don't have
cable or satellite!).

*blinkblink* You mean my Tivo can't work with my satellite box? I better
go unplug it!

No, what mean is that an integrated TiVo/satellite box (like the Directivo
box) is a much better solution for most people. Few people buying new will
buy a stand alone TiVo for use with an external cable or satellite box when
there are integrated boxes available with more functionality at a lower
price.

snort

The integrated DirectTivos actually have LESS features than
a cobbled together solution would. This fact is primarily what is
driving my interest in MythTV and the like.

[deletia]

--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \

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