HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

On 2006-02-10, Jeff Rife wrote:
) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Does MythTV have power aware functions? The Tivo is ~ 40 Watts * 30
days * 24 hours *$0.12/KWH = $3.40/Month for power. If Myth can't go
to sleep, figure on 5X that (which would put you right in the range of
the monthly script fee).

I gotta disagree here. Even if it can't go to sleep, an AMD-based PC
with a medium-fast CPU will only use about 120W, which would be about
3x the TiVo. And, I'll bet anything that the Series 3 will be closer
to 70W consumption.

On the TiVo side, the 40W listed here may be way high too. I don't know
what a TiVo2 runs at but a TiVo1 runs closer to 10-15W (CPU takes 1W, hard
drive peaks at 8W, etc.)

--
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HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 18:41:11 -0500, Jeff Rife wrote:

Well, you could get a very nice 20" 1600x1200 Dell LCD (that can actually
display all 1600x1200 pixels, unlike your monitor) for less than $500 the
next time they go on sale. Or, you could get a 19" 1280x1024 (which
*still* has more real resolution than your monitor) for $300.

Are you drunk? I said my $69 19" CRT monitor runs at 1600x1200
non-interlaced. Why in the hell would I want to spend $300 for one with
less capability. My old 17" that's probably only worth $25 now does
1280x1024. And i don't want an LCD monitor or TV of any kind, even if the
price were the same as the crt.

--
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http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
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HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:11:17 +0000, Chris Adams wrote:

Once upon a time, Wes Newell said:
http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

I don't see the part where you tell that MythTV can only record
broadcast network over-the-air HD, while the CableCard TiVo will be able
to record many more HD channels from digital cable

Then you can't read.

Cable card support ? Yes

(HDNet/HDNet Movies,
ESPN/ESPN2 HD, HBO HD, Showtime HD, Discover HD Theater, Universal HD,
TNT HD, to name a few). OTA HD may be enough for you but the majority

I also didn't mention that many of these premium channels are available
OTA, which would have been in the MythTV's favor.

of TV viewers want more than the broadcast networks (well over half the
US TV owning households have cable and/or satellite).

And from a survey I did, the only reason the majority do have cable or
sat is because they don't know how to get a good clear picture with an
antenna. 3 out of 4 I asked said the only reason for havingt pay tv was
because they couldn't get good recption otherwise.

Due to CableCard DRM, an open source system like MythTV will never be
able to record those channels digitally.

Not that it matters to me, but you are mistaken. Maybe you haven't seen
the USDTV ads running, offering many premium channels OTA.

The only possible way would be
with an expensive real-time HD encoder per stream (and then you'll get
decode/reencode artifacting, not the orginal digital signal like a TiVo).

WTF are you talking about. Digital signals are broadcast alreay encoded in
mpeg2. There's no encoding required. The digital stream is simply saved
to disk. And for your info, OTA HD gives a much better signal than
the compressed crap you get from cable or sat. If you don't know what
you're talking about it's best to keep quiet and not look the fool. If you
hook up an antenna to an HD tivo and compare the signals, you'll see the
OTA picture is a better quality. That's been documented for some time now.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 20:09:05 -0500, Randy S. wrote:

Wes Newell wrote:
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:08:50 +0000, SINNER wrote:


* Wes Newell wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:


http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

Quote:

"This comparison is based on info available today as the HD Tivo series 3
has yet to be released...."

For his next trick he compares Chupacabra to the Abominable Snowman.

What a dolt.


So Randy S. and I are both dolts. From you, I consider that a compliment.:-)


Well, Wes, you must admit that the comparison exercise that you and I
went through is largely speculative based only on 3rd hand reports of a
prototype of a yet to be released product. I have no problem admitting
that the comparison is early, speculative, and quite possibly incorrect
in minor and/or significant details.

You don't really believe that. If the product they displayed at CES wasn't
very close to the final product, they wouldn't have shown it. And if there
are major changes, I wouldn't look for a release this year. besides,
comparisons between products like this is done all the time. That's one
reason it was displayed. To show people what they had. You and I both know
the real reason behind the flames.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 17:21:13 -0800, zafdor wrote:

Does MythTV have power aware functions? The Tivo is ~ 40 Watts * 30
days * 24 hours *$0.12/KWH = $3.40/Month for power. If Myth can't go
to sleep, figure on 5X that (which would put you right in the range of
the monthly script fee).

To be honest I haven't figured out what the power cost of my PC is. For me
it doesn't matter as one has been running 24/7 for at least 10 years. My
current system runs at low speed (800MHz 1.3v) anyway, so power
consumption is low at that. The frontend machines don't need to run at all
unless you are watching TV, so that's 0 consumption for them while the HD
tivos you have to have in those locations will be running 24/7. And of
course, you don't have to run a MythTV system 24/7 if you don't want to.
It actually has a power down feature.:-)

I'll probably build one when I retire an old machine, but I can't
imaging my 6 year old will be able to operate it like the Tivo. It
would qualify as a fun project. Oh and then theres that power thing....

You're right, It's easier to operate than a Tivo. And a frontend machine
for your sons room would use less power than a tivo, assuming he turns it
off or unless he watches TV 24/7.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

Mike Hunt ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
On the TiVo side, the 40W listed here may be way high too. I don't know
what a TiVo2 runs at but a TiVo1 runs closer to 10-15W (CPU takes 1W, hard
drive peaks at 8W, etc.)

It depends on the power supply. I haven't looked at it in detail, but
there isn't as much need for a switching power supply because the load
is well known in advance. Thus, efficiency might not be as good as a
typical PC power supply. ISTR somebody measured their TiVo (using a
clamp-on wattmeter) at over 30W.

Ah, here's a resource that says 29W:
http://www.energynucleus.com/index.p...saving-energy/

--
Jeff Rife | "I don't have to be Ray Liotta: movie star,
| anymore. I can be Ray Liotta: Maya's boyfriend.
| All I want to do is regular, boring, ordinary
| couple things."
| "Then you, sir, have hit the soul-mate lottery."
| -- Ray Liotta and Nina Van Horn, "Just Shoot Me"

HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 05:07:06 +0000, Mike Hunt wrote:

On 2006-02-10, Jeff Rife wrote:
) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Does MythTV have power aware functions? The Tivo is ~ 40 Watts * 30
days * 24 hours *$0.12/KWH = $3.40/Month for power. If Myth can't go
to sleep, figure on 5X that (which would put you right in the range of
the monthly script fee).

I gotta disagree here. Even if it can't go to sleep, an AMD-based PC
with a medium-fast CPU will only use about 120W, which would be about
3x the TiVo. And, I'll bet anything that the Series 3 will be closer
to 70W consumption.

On the TiVo side, the 40W listed here may be way high too. I don't know
what a TiVo2 runs at but a TiVo1 runs closer to 10-15W (CPU takes 1W, hard
drive peaks at 8W, etc.)

The HD Tivo isn't a series 1. And it's going to draw a lot more current
than the S1. In the end, the difference in power consumption one way or
the other isn't going to matter much. While Tivos will be left on 24/7,
MythTV boxes can be turned off most of the time. my frontend machine only
runs about 4 hours a day, so even if it used 5 times as much power as the
HD Tivo, it would consume less overall. I actually save more money
running MythTV since my server ran 24/7 anyway and has for close to 15
years (excluding upgrades). Now I don't have the Tivo running 24/7. I also
don't have my other DVR running 24/7, and I also don't have the 2 vcr's
running 24/7 either. Now when I look at it like that, Tivo's are a lot
more expensive to run poer wise. And I'd have to run 2 HD tivos for the
same recording capability I have now. Current electric cost for MythTV is
0. Cost of 2 HD tivos running 24/7=?

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

The HD Tivo isn't a series 1. And it's going to draw a lot more current
than the S1. In the end, the difference in power consumption one way or
the other isn't going to matter much. While Tivos will be left on 24/7,
MythTV boxes can be turned off most of the time. my frontend machine only
runs about 4 hours a day, so even if it used 5 times as much power as the
HD Tivo, it would consume less overall. I actually save more money
running MythTV since my server ran 24/7 anyway and has for close to 15
years (excluding upgrades). Now I don't have the Tivo running 24/7. I also
don't have my other DVR running 24/7, and I also don't have the 2 vcr's
running 24/7 either. Now when I look at it like that, Tivo's are a lot
more expensive to run poer wise. And I'd have to run 2 HD tivos for the
same recording capability I have now. Current electric cost for MythTV is
0. Cost of 2 HD tivos running 24/7=?


Wes, now you're biasing again. Can your Mythtv setup run without your
backend server? We both know it can't. So discounting the backend
power is disingenuous. Just because it's running anyway doesn't allow
you to discount it. If you want to be fair, figure out the percentage
of use that goes to Mythtv (and I mean percentage of *use* not of
capability, total percentage should add up to 100%). Then include that
percentage of total power used in the consideration.

Power's probably not a big consideration anyway, particularly if both
devices can be setup with low power modes.

Randy S.

HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

Well, Wes, you must admit that the comparison exercise that you and I
went through is largely speculative based only on 3rd hand reports of a
prototype of a yet to be released product. I have no problem admitting
that the comparison is early, speculative, and quite possibly incorrect
in minor and/or significant details.


You don't really believe that. If the product they displayed at CES wasn't
very close to the final product, they wouldn't have shown it. And if there
are major changes, I wouldn't look for a release this year. besides,
comparisons between products like this is done all the time. That's one
reason it was displayed. To show people what they had. You and I both know
the real reason behind the flames.


Wes, in another thread I had someone flame me for citing the cableCARD
standard because it wasn't a standard (because supposedly standards that
aren't ratified yet aren't "standards"). Now you are trying to say that
there's nothing wrong with making a complete review of a product way
before it's ever released.

There *are* middle grounds here. It is possible to speculate and draw
conclusions on things that are not yet complete. But it is also
important to acknowledge that those things *aren't* complete and could
change. I don't have a problem admitting that while still speculating
for the academic exercise of it. Why is that so hard for you to do?

Randy S.

HDTV MythTV and HD Tivo series 3 compared.
 

Wes Newell wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:11:17 +0000, Chris Adams wrote:


Once upon a time, Wes Newell said:

http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

I don't see the part where you tell that MythTV can only record
broadcast network over-the-air HD, while the CableCard TiVo will be able
to record many more HD channels from digital cable


Then you can't read.

Cable card support ? Yes

Wes, I've already pointed out your bias in that statement.

(HDNet/HDNet Movies,
ESPN/ESPN2 HD, HBO HD, Showtime HD, Discover HD Theater, Universal HD,
TNT HD, to name a few). OTA HD may be enough for you but the majority


I also didn't mention that many of these premium channels are available
OTA, which would have been in the MythTV's favor.

No, Wes the HD channels he stated above are *not* broadcast channels.
I.e. they aren't sent OTA. Your beloved USDTV which you've never used,
is only available in *4* western cities in the US, and only supplies the
broadcast networks in HD anyway (notice all of the above list is HD?).
Plus USDTV raises my suspicions, what type of service provides so little
information on their website, they don't even list a channel lineup !?
On top of that, it's not like you can integrate it into mythTV, you'd
have to some sort of lash up with IR blasters which would negate many of
Mythtv's advantages.

of TV viewers want more than the broadcast networks (well over half the
US TV owning households have cable and/or satellite).


And from a survey I did, the only reason the majority do have cable or
sat is because they don't know how to get a good clear picture with an
antenna. 3 out of 4 I asked said the only reason for havingt pay tv was
because they couldn't get good recption otherwise.

Please show us the source of this survey, along with proof of it's
statistical accuracy. Asking 4 acquaintances does not count as a
survey. How geographically diverse was this survey, since location is
so critical to reception? Did you ask people from all areas of the
country and in all types of markets? Fort Worth/Dallas is hardly
representative you know? In fact, surprisingly, it seems to have one of
the highest availability of OTA ATSC signals of anywhere in the country.
Do you think that might be skewing your perceptions somewhat?

Due to CableCard DRM, an open source system like MythTV will never be
able to record those channels digitally.


Not that it matters to me, but you are mistaken. Maybe you haven't seen
the USDTV ads running, offering many premium channels OTA.

but none in HD. We've already been down this road.

The only possible way would be
with an expensive real-time HD encoder per stream (and then you'll get
decode/reencode artifacting, not the orginal digital signal like a TiVo).


WTF are you talking about. Digital signals are broadcast alreay encoded in
mpeg2. There's no encoding required. The digital stream is simply saved
to disk. And for your info, OTA HD gives a much better signal than
the compressed crap you get from cable or sat. If you don't know what
you're talking about it's best to keep quiet and not look the fool. If you
hook up an antenna to an HD tivo and compare the signals, you'll see the
OTA picture is a better quality. That's been documented for some time now.


He's not talking about OTA, he's talking about reencoding a signal from
a source like your oft-quoted USDTV. Since you can't pull a native
digital signal from USDTV's required settop box, you'll have to reencode
the analog signal.

Randy S.