Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

Brian McIlwrath wrote:

However I believe this *was* a commercial decision by C4 as
they get services from Sky for free in return - which otherside would cost
them.

Some call that a "commercial decision". I call it an "offer they can't
refuse".

Semantics.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

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Zero Tolerance wrote:

In fact the owners of those channels were railroaded into making them
subscription on Sky in order to avoid the prohibitive costs of
carriage on Sky Digital.

Your suggestion is that Sky are able to somehow "railroad" all of the
largest media companies in the world into making their channels
subscription, even if those companies do not wish to have them
broadcast like that? I don't think so.

Look at the options again and you will see precisely why this is
indeed the case.


Any channel is going to look at the options and make the decision that
works best for them. And if being subscription makes good sense
financially then that is what they'll do.

See above for the reason why you are wrong. As I said, it was an offer
that they couldn't refuse: either pay way over the odds to be FTV or
allow the extra channels to be pay ones in return for a huge discount.
The same thing has happened to other channels. There were only two
choices at best.
Since that time a new option has surfaced: go FTA. The BBC and ITV
have followed this with much glee. I'm certain that other channels
would like to do the same as soon as their contracts allow.


Doubtless the fact that most
homes with satellite do already pay for Sky will be a deciding factor.

The big five channels (and the numerous subsidiaries) aren't pay
channels so I don't see why.


Only channels that are desperate for every last possible viewer (e.g.
shopping and gaming channels) have any compelling case to be FTA.

Tell that to the BBC and ITV.
And how do you explain that all these channels are FTA on Freeview?
Surely by your argument they should be part of TopUpTV?

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:52:32 +0100, Jomtien wrote:

Some call that a "commercial decision". I call it an "offer they can't
refuse".

Well that illustrates your tendency to distort things, then, doesn't
it. :-)

Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:52:32 +0100, Jomtien wrote:

See above for the reason why you are wrong. As I said, it was an offer
that they couldn't refuse: either pay way over the odds to be FTV or
allow the extra channels to be pay ones in return for a huge discount.
The same thing has happened to other channels. There were only two
choices at best.

Since that time a new option has surfaced: go FTA. The BBC and ITV
have followed this with much glee. I'm certain that other channels
would like to do the same as soon as their contracts allow.

And yet today, when Channel 4 makes the decision to make FilmFour
available to a wider audience, do they choose to go FTA? Well.. no.
They choose to go FTV. A choice made of their own free will, and FTV
is what they want. Pretty much shoots a hole in your predictions,
there.

Doubtless the fact that most
homes with satellite do already pay for Sky will be a deciding factor.

The big five channels (and the numerous subsidiaries) aren't pay
channels so I don't see why.

Because people don't get Sky to watch the big five channels. They get
Sky to watch something else. That's why most people with satellite
subscribe to Sky.

Only channels that are desperate for every last possible viewer (e.g.
shopping and gaming channels) have any compelling case to be FTA.

Tell that to the BBC and ITV.
And how do you explain that all these channels are FTA on Freeview?
Surely by your argument they should be part of TopUpTV?

Freeview clearly has a much larger potential audience than Top Up TV,
so being FTA is the logical choice.

Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...
And yet today, when Channel 4 makes the decision to make FilmFour
available to a wider audience, do they choose to go FTA? Well.. no.
They choose to go FTV. A choice made of their own free will, and FTV
is what they want. Pretty much shoots a hole in your predictions,
there.

Unlike More4 on Sky it will be FTV though, with no Sky subscription package
required.
Presumably FTV because they use the transponder with the wider european
footprint, and would need to renogiate rights if they went FTA

Loz

Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

"loz" wrote in message
...

"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...
And yet today, when Channel 4 makes the decision to make FilmFour
available to a wider audience, do they choose to go FTA? Well.. no.
They choose to go FTV. A choice made of their own free will, and FTV
is what they want. Pretty much shoots a hole in your predictions,
there.

Unlike More4 on Sky it will be FTV though, with no Sky subscription
package required.
Presumably FTV because they use the transponder with the wider european
footprint, and would need to renogiate rights if they went FTA

Actually I understand it is on Asta 2D so shouldn't have right's issues.

However, I note several comments on other forums that it isn't quite clear
whether C4 mean FilmFour will be FTV or FTA on satellite

Loz

Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

loz wrote:
"loz" wrote in message
...

"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...
And yet today, when Channel 4 makes the decision to make FilmFour
available to a wider audience, do they choose to go FTA? Well.. no.
They choose to go FTV. A choice made of their own free will, and FTV
is what they want. Pretty much shoots a hole in your predictions,
there.

Unlike More4 on Sky it will be FTV though, with no Sky subscription
package required.
Presumably FTV because they use the transponder with the wider
european footprint, and would need to renogiate rights if they went
FTA

Actually I understand it is on Asta 2D so shouldn't have right's
issues.

However, I note several comments on other forums that it isn't quite
clear whether C4 mean FilmFour will be FTV or FTA on satellite


When is it due to happen?


--

Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

Zero Tolerance wrote:

Since that time a new option has surfaced: go FTA. The BBC and ITV
have followed this with much glee. I'm certain that other channels
would like to do the same as soon as their contracts allow.

And yet today, when Channel 4 makes the decision to make FilmFour
available to a wider audience, do they choose to go FTA? Well.. no.
They choose to go FTV. A choice made of their own free will, and FTV
is what they want. Pretty much shoots a hole in your predictions,
there.

The announcement I saw said FTA not FTV. I think that we will need to
wait for the launch to be certain as journalists and PR people rarely
seem to know the difference.

Either way, it has already been mentioned that C4's contract with Sky
apparently obliges them to use encryption for their channels. So
possibly FTA is not currently an option for them. They might have to
wait for contract renewal time for that. At that time they would also
need to find available space on 2D.


Doubtless the fact that most
homes with satellite do already pay for Sky will be a deciding factor.

The big five channels (and the numerous subsidiaries) aren't pay
channels so I don't see why.

Because people don't get Sky to watch the big five channels. They get
Sky to watch something else. That's why most people with satellite
subscribe to Sky.

You are clearly unaware of just how many people do indeed get
satellite yet pay no sub. And, of course, you have just given evidence
yourself that there clearly is a big demand for non-pay channels,
otherwise what are C4 doing? You need to make your mind up.


Only channels that are desperate for every last possible viewer (e.g.
shopping and gaming channels) have any compelling case to be FTA.

Tell that to the BBC and ITV.
And how do you explain that all these channels are FTA on Freeview?
Surely by your argument they should be part of TopUpTV?

Freeview clearly has a much larger potential audience than Top Up TV,
so being FTA is the logical choice.

And yet the identical situation isn't logical with satellite? As I
said, you need to make your mind up.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

Zero Tolerance wrote:
Because people don't get Sky to watch the big five channels. They get
Sky to watch something else. That's why most people with satellite
subscribe to Sky.

And yet, even in 'digital' homes, the BBC channels remain the 'most-watched'
so there's your theory out the window ;-)


--
Carl Waring
http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495

Ftn, UKTV History, More4
 

On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 08:33:56 +0100, Jomtien wrote:

The announcement I saw said FTA not FTV. I think that we will need to
wait for the launch to be certain as journalists and PR people rarely
seem to know the difference.

I agree.

Either way, it has already been mentioned that C4's contract with Sky
apparently obliges them to use encryption for their channels.

I suspect that any such contract would only have been drawn up for
specific channels, though. Since FilmFour is effectively leaving its
premium encryption contract, I'd imagine that it's more of a free
agent. But as you say, I think we'll need to wait for the launch.

You are clearly unaware of just how many people do indeed get
satellite yet pay no sub.

About 554,000 according to the last Ofcom report. Compared to 8
million or more subscription homes.

And, of course, you have just given evidence
yourself that there clearly is a big demand for non-pay channels,
otherwise what are C4 doing? You need to make your mind up.

What evidence was that? Sure, some non-pay channels are popular, (ones
that people have been used to watching for 20 or 30 years, for
example) but most aren't.

Freeview clearly has a much larger potential audience than Top Up TV,
so being FTA is the logical choice.

And yet the identical situation isn't logical with satellite? As I
said, you need to make your mind up.

You're not thinking this through. TopUp is currently estimated to have
around, what, 200,000 subscribers? Whereas Freeview as a whole is
suppoed to be in something like 7 million homes. The difference is
enormous.

The difference on satellite is between 8 million pay homes, or 8.5
million satellite homes. A much smaller difference.

If being subscription as opposed to FTA saves you, what, let's say
£75,000 at a guess, then for being FTA to be worthwhile, you'd have to
earn that £75,000 back from an additional potential audience of just
500,000 (of which even a half-decent channel would only ever expect to
get a 2.5% share, tops - so 12,000 actual viewers). That's over £6 per
viewer, which is totally unrealistic.