Things Bob might not post
 

Here is a quote from the UK in the Telegraph:

"Tessa Jowell, the Culture Secretary, said the Government was about to
publish research showing that 70 per cent of the public would resent
being required to switch to digital."

This article is linked in Mark Schubin's web site at:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/09/20/ndigi20.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/09/20/ixhome.html

Seems like it is not so hard to find disgruntled people almost
anywhere. The article also includes a quote that transition by 2010 in
the UK is unlikely.

"Steve Bryan" wrote in message
m...
Here is a quote from the UK in the Telegraph:

"Tessa Jowell, the Culture Secretary, said the Government was about to
publish research showing that 70 per cent of the public would resent
being required to switch to digital."

This article is linked in Mark Schubin's web site at:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...20/ndigi20.xml
&sSheet=/news/2003/09/20/ixhome.html

Seems like it is not so hard to find disgruntled people almost
anywhere. The article also includes a quote that transition by 2010 in
the UK is unlikely.

I have tried to make this point myself. You did it better.

In a country that is selling receivers at a rate of somewhere between 25,000
and 50,000 a week, I am getting different numbers, which as I have said
would be up to 300,000 in the six times bigger US, they are still talking of
not reaching their goal of a DTV transition by 2010.

Here in the US where we may have sold 300,000 OTA receivers in the last 7
1/2 years. (compare 7 1/2 years to ONE WEEK) And we are talking of the DTV
transition being over in 2006.

And can you imagine the RESENTMENT in the US if we tried to turn off analog
TV in 2006 with the current options?

In Germany they started their DTV transition in Berlin last November and
ended it last month. They had like 300 phone calls about the subject and
they were not all complaints. And they have sold 200,000 receivers in just
Berlin in the last year.

The US DTV OTA transition is a total disaster just waiting to be buried. No
politician has decided to bring it up yet but they will. FCC Chairman Powell
had tested the waters with at least three public statements but they did not
elicit any response and he is unlikely to bring up the subject again
considering his other problems.

A turning point may be when and if the courts rule for the CEA in the matter
of the tuner mandate.

"Steve Bryan" wrote in message
m...
Here is a quote from the UK in the Telegraph:

"Tessa Jowell, the Culture Secretary, said the Government was about to
publish research showing that 70 per cent of the public would resent
being required to switch to digital."

This article is linked in Mark Schubin's web site at:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...20/ndigi20.xml
&sSheet=/news/2003/09/20/ixhome.html

Seems like it is not so hard to find disgruntled people almost
anywhere. The article also includes a quote that transition by 2010 in
the UK is unlikely.

I have tried to make this point myself. You did it better.

In a country that is selling receivers at a rate of somewhere between 25,000
and 50,000 a week, I am getting different numbers, which as I have said
would be up to 300,000 in the six times bigger US, they are still talking of
not reaching their goal of a DTV transition by 2010.

Here in the US where we may have sold 300,000 OTA receivers in the last 7
1/2 years. (compare 7 1/2 years to ONE WEEK) And we are talking of the DTV
transition being over in 2006.

And can you imagine the RESENTMENT in the US if we tried to turn off analog
TV in 2006 with the current options?

In Germany they started their DTV transition in Berlin last November and
ended it last month. They had like 300 phone calls about the subject and
they were not all complaints. And they have sold 200,000 receivers in just
Berlin in the last year.

The US DTV OTA transition is a total disaster just waiting to be buried. No
politician has decided to bring it up yet but they will. FCC Chairman Powell
had tested the waters with at least three public statements but they did not
elicit any response and he is unlikely to bring up the subject again
considering his other problems.

A turning point may be when and if the courts rule for the CEA in the matter
of the tuner mandate.

What a shame England is stuck with such a fragile television system.
People lose their pictures when a motorscooter goes by outside.


"Steve Bryan" wrote in message
m...
Here is a quote from the UK in the Telegraph:

"Tessa Jowell, the Culture Secretary, said the Government was about to
publish research showing that 70 per cent of the public would resent
being required to switch to digital."

This article is linked in Mark Schubin's web site at:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...20/ndigi20.xml
&sSheet=/news/2003/09/20/ixhome.html

Seems like it is not so hard to find disgruntled people almost
anywhere. The article also includes a quote that transition by 2010 in
the UK is unlikely.

What a shame England is stuck with such a fragile television system.
People lose their pictures when a motorscooter goes by outside.


"Steve Bryan" wrote in message
m...
Here is a quote from the UK in the Telegraph:

"Tessa Jowell, the Culture Secretary, said the Government was about to
publish research showing that 70 per cent of the public would resent
being required to switch to digital."

This article is linked in Mark Schubin's web site at:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...20/ndigi20.xml
&sSheet=/news/2003/09/20/ixhome.html

Seems like it is not so hard to find disgruntled people almost
anywhere. The article also includes a quote that transition by 2010 in
the UK is unlikely.

Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be complete by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis. I figure by 2006
that hollywood will still be fighting over copy protection standards for
hdtv, cable and satellite, which will finally be standardized around 2010
so they can actually build HDTV to a single standard. Of course the copy
protection will be broken about 24 hrs after it is introduced and hollywood
will want to redo the spec.


Richard R.

Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be complete by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis. I figure by 2006
that hollywood will still be fighting over copy protection standards for
hdtv, cable and satellite, which will finally be standardized around 2010
so they can actually build HDTV to a single standard. Of course the copy
protection will be broken about 24 hrs after it is introduced and hollywood
will want to redo the spec.


Richard R.

In article ,
"Richard R" writes:
Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be complete by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis.

My original predictions (made in 1987) were that AFTER INTRODUCTION,
our new HDTV scheme will take 15yrs to get 1/2 of the market. This
is more similar to ColorTV than VCR take-up. So far, the reality
of the market is that we are approx 3-4 years after introduction.

Relative to my prediction, we are doing BETTER than I had expected.

John

In article ,
"Richard R" writes:
Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be complete by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis.

My original predictions (made in 1987) were that AFTER INTRODUCTION,
our new HDTV scheme will take 15yrs to get 1/2 of the market. This
is more similar to ColorTV than VCR take-up. So far, the reality
of the market is that we are approx 3-4 years after introduction.

Relative to my prediction, we are doing BETTER than I had expected.

John

"Richard R" wrote in message
...
Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization
and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be complete
by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis. I figure by
2006
that hollywood will still be fighting over copy protection standards for
hdtv, cable and satellite, which will finally be standardized around 2010
so they can actually build HDTV to a single standard. Of course the copy
protection will be broken about 24 hrs after it is introduced and
hollywood
will want to redo the spec.
Richard R.

Yes, the copy protection stuff is a PITA.

I think the transition is doing very well, even beyond the promises.
For example, I have ~30 hours of OTA HDTV recorded on my computer so far.
I'm able to pop a USB drive out and take it to our vacation home.

Compared to the color TV transition, HDTV is a juggernaut. And, the hardware
price drops so far have been amazing.

"Richard R" wrote in message
...
Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization
and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be complete
by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis. I figure by
2006
that hollywood will still be fighting over copy protection standards for
hdtv, cable and satellite, which will finally be standardized around 2010
so they can actually build HDTV to a single standard. Of course the copy
protection will be broken about 24 hrs after it is introduced and
hollywood
will want to redo the spec.
Richard R.

Yes, the copy protection stuff is a PITA.

I think the transition is doing very well, even beyond the promises.
For example, I have ~30 hours of OTA HDTV recorded on my computer so far.
I'm able to pop a USB drive out and take it to our vacation home.

Compared to the color TV transition, HDTV is a juggernaut. And, the hardware
price drops so far have been amazing.

"John S. Dyson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Richard R" writes:
Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many
reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization
and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be
complete by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis.

My original predictions (made in 1987) were that AFTER INTRODUCTION,
our new HDTV scheme will take 15yrs to get 1/2 of the market. This
is more similar to ColorTV than VCR take-up. So far, the reality
of the market is that we are approx 3-4 years after introduction.

Relative to my prediction, we are doing BETTER than I had expected.

John

There is absolutely no chance that the 8-VSB modulation could possibly last
for the 15 years that you suggest let alone whatever you expect it will take
to get the other 50%.

The way technology is moving to think that the TV spectrum from channel 2 to
51 would still be afflicted with 8-VSB in 11 more years is ludicrous.

"John S. Dyson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Richard R" writes:
Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many
reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization
and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be
complete by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis.

My original predictions (made in 1987) were that AFTER INTRODUCTION,
our new HDTV scheme will take 15yrs to get 1/2 of the market. This
is more similar to ColorTV than VCR take-up. So far, the reality
of the market is that we are approx 3-4 years after introduction.

Relative to my prediction, we are doing BETTER than I had expected.

John

There is absolutely no chance that the 8-VSB modulation could possibly last
for the 15 years that you suggest let alone whatever you expect it will take
to get the other 50%.

The way technology is moving to think that the TV spectrum from channel 2 to
51 would still be afflicted with 8-VSB in 11 more years is ludicrous.

"Steve Bryan" wrote in message
As Daffy Duck might say, "It is to laugh."

And, thank God we didn't end up with that rickety, frail COFDM system
they're stuck with in England.

"Steve Bryan" wrote in message
As Daffy Duck might say, "It is to laugh."

And, thank God we didn't end up with that rickety, frail COFDM system
they're stuck with in England.

Bob Miller wrote:

There is absolutely no chance that the 8-VSB modulation could possibly last
for the 15 years that you suggest let alone whatever you expect it will take
to get the other 50%.

The way technology is moving to think that the TV spectrum from channel 2 to
51 would still be afflicted with 8-VSB in 11 more years is ludicrous.


This is yet another prediction from bob. So far he has been wrong 100%
of the time. He really should retire before he gets one right by accident.

Matthew

--
http://www.mlmartin.com/bbq/

Thermodynamics For Dummies: You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't get out of the game.

Bob Miller wrote:

There is absolutely no chance that the 8-VSB modulation could possibly last
for the 15 years that you suggest let alone whatever you expect it will take
to get the other 50%.

The way technology is moving to think that the TV spectrum from channel 2 to
51 would still be afflicted with 8-VSB in 11 more years is ludicrous.


This is yet another prediction from bob. So far he has been wrong 100%
of the time. He really should retire before he gets one right by accident.

Matthew

--
http://www.mlmartin.com/bbq/

Thermodynamics For Dummies: You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't get out of the game.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:54:48 +0000 (UTC), (John S.
Dyson) wrote:

In article ,
"Richard R" writes:
Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be complete by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis.

My original predictions (made in 1987) were that AFTER INTRODUCTION,
our new HDTV scheme will take 15yrs to get 1/2 of the market. This
is more similar to ColorTV than VCR take-up. So far, the reality
of the market is that we are approx 3-4 years after introduction.

Relative to my prediction, we are doing BETTER than I had expected.

John

One reason that HD hasn't caught on faster may be that people's tvs
don't have to be replaced as often as before. It's much easier to go
to HD when you need to replace your old tv. Then again we are just
starting to really get HD programming.

Thumper

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:54:48 +0000 (UTC), (John S.
Dyson) wrote:

In article ,
"Richard R" writes:
Bob's comments aside, the hdtv transition is a disaster for many reasons.
The tuner and 8VSB is just one of dozens of problems in standardization and
appropriate equipment. Anyone who thinks the transition will be complete by
2006 must not be taking their medicine on a regular basis.

My original predictions (made in 1987) were that AFTER INTRODUCTION,
our new HDTV scheme will take 15yrs to get 1/2 of the market. This
is more similar to ColorTV than VCR take-up. So far, the reality
of the market is that we are approx 3-4 years after introduction.

Relative to my prediction, we are doing BETTER than I had expected.

John

One reason that HD hasn't caught on faster may be that people's tvs
don't have to be replaced as often as before. It's much easier to go
to HD when you need to replace your old tv. Then again we are just
starting to really get HD programming.

Thumper

The way technology is moving to think that the TV spectrum from channel 2 to
51 would still be afflicted with 8-VSB in 11 more years is ludicrous.

Certainly not as ludricrous as some of the comments you make here almost daily.

The way technology is moving to think that the TV spectrum from channel 2 to
51 would still be afflicted with 8-VSB in 11 more years is ludicrous.

Certainly not as ludricrous as some of the comments you make here almost daily.

The transition certainly does not seem to be going well.

Here in Denver the many cable companies are not in any hurry to convert to
HDTV. My own cable service which already has its own digital service of 500
channels (QAM) will not even discuss when they will convert as most of their
customers seem to be happy with digital. This also does not address how
they are going to put spectrum expensive 1080i/720p in place. They could
loose 1/2 or more of their channel space.

The local stations are still battling local homeowners about adding new
antenna systems for hdtv. They recently got permission from the local
county, but the homeowners promptly went to court. They will be lucky to
even have the antennas in place by Jan 1 2006.

Richard R.




"Steve Bryan" wrote in message
om...
This topic has come up recently on an AVS forum. The implication was
that if all the stations (about 1700 of which 1024 are already
digital) have made the transition then it may prove easy to turn off
the analog channels. The reasoning has to do with the specific wording
of the 85% requirement. If one TV in a home can receive the all the
local digital channels then it qualifies. For cable subscribers as
long as the cable company is carrying the locals their STB will
satisfy that requirement. It wouldn't matter whether the set is
digital or NTSC since the STB will certainly have DVI and composite
outputs. There may be some laggard stations or cable providers but it
provides about 70% compliance with no effort required of the
subscriber.

The transition certainly does not seem to be going well.

Here in Denver the many cable companies are not in any hurry to convert to
HDTV. My own cable service which already has its own digital service of 500
channels (QAM) will not even discuss when they will convert as most of their
customers seem to be happy with digital. This also does not address how
they are going to put spectrum expensive 1080i/720p in place. They could
loose 1/2 or more of their channel space.

The local stations are still battling local homeowners about adding new
antenna systems for hdtv. They recently got permission from the local
county, but the homeowners promptly went to court. They will be lucky to
even have the antennas in place by Jan 1 2006.

Richard R.




"Steve Bryan" wrote in message
om...
This topic has come up recently on an AVS forum. The implication was
that if all the stations (about 1700 of which 1024 are already
digital) have made the transition then it may prove easy to turn off
the analog channels. The reasoning has to do with the specific wording
of the 85% requirement. If one TV in a home can receive the all the
local digital channels then it qualifies. For cable subscribers as
long as the cable company is carrying the locals their STB will
satisfy that requirement. It wouldn't matter whether the set is
digital or NTSC since the STB will certainly have DVI and composite
outputs. There may be some laggard stations or cable providers but it
provides about 70% compliance with no effort required of the
subscriber.

"Thumper" wrote in message
...

:Then again we are just starting to really get HD programming.

=====================
Speak for yourself. I have been getting HD programming for several years.

"Thumper" wrote in message
...

:Then again we are just starting to really get HD programming.

=====================
Speak for yourself. I have been getting HD programming for several years.