Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

I've got TiVo connected through a router to a computer
which is connected through a seperate NIC card to another
computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Would it help if I bought a gigabit switch?
Thanks, I'm really like ignorant in this area.
: -)

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

AKA gray asphalt wrote:
I've got TiVo connected through a router to a computer
which is connected through a seperate NIC card to another
computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Would it help if I bought a gigabit switch?
Thanks, I'm really like ignorant in this area.
: -)



You haven't fully described your network topology. Your Tivo is
connected to a router (presumably w/ an integrated 10/100 switch), as is
one computer. Then the computer is connected to another computer via a
second NIC, but is it connected directly (i.e. crossover cable)?

Most people aren't using Gigabit networking to the desktop yet, very
little uses that much bandwidth given that the typical provider
connection is 1.5 Mbps, though moving video around is definitely aided
by gigabit speeds. I'm not sure what a Gigabit switch would gain you,
you aren't going to get anymore speed out of the Tivo, and I presume
you're already getting gigabit speeds between the 2 computers. It would
allow you to free up one of the 2 NICs in your computer, but the switch
will certainly cost much more than the NIC does.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"Randy S." wrote in message ...
AKA gray asphalt wrote:
I've got TiVo connected through a router to a computer
which is connected through a seperate NIC card to another
computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Would it help if I bought a gigabit switch?
Thanks, I'm really like ignorant in this area.
: -)



You haven't fully described your network topology. Your Tivo is connected to a router (presumably w/ an integrated 10/100
switch), as is one computer. Then the computer is connected to another computer via a second NIC, but is it connected directly
(i.e. crossover cable)?

Most people aren't using Gigabit networking to the desktop yet, very little uses that much bandwidth given that the typical
provider connection is 1.5 Mbps, though moving video around is definitely aided by gigabit speeds. I'm not sure what a Gigabit
switch would gain you, you aren't going to get anymore speed out of the Tivo, and I presume you're already getting gigabit speeds
between the 2 computers. It would allow you to free up one of the 2 NICs in your computer, but the switch will certainly cost
much more than the NIC does.

Randy S.

Yes, the two computers are connected by a cross over cable.
I was thinking that the switch could go between the two computers
and the TiVo thereby giving the second computer direct access to
the TiVo without slowing down transfer between the two computers
which are, as you say, used to transfer video.

And then for the switch to go to the router to provide hardware
firewall. I have no idea what would be assigning IPs to what and if
it makes sense at all.

It's pretty weird to transfer a 1 Gig file in about 6 minutes between
computers and 1.5 hrs. from TiVo to computer.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

On 2006-01-03, AKA gray asphalt wrote:

And then for the switch to go to the router to provide hardware
firewall. I have no idea what would be assigning IPs to what and if
it makes sense at all.

I think what you call the router would be assigning IPs to everything -
the switch would just be routing packets.

It's pretty weird to transfer a 1 Gig file in about 6 minutes between
computers and 1.5 hrs. from TiVo to computer.

That's got very little to do with the speed of your network. I transfer
1Gig files from my TiVo to my computer in 7-8 minutes which is on-par with
your numbers. To get the speedup, you have to hack your box so you can
copy the shows unencrypted. It's the encryption step that kills your copy
times. I strongly encourage people who download a lot of their shows to
do this.

--
This is my .sig

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:33:38 -0800, "AKA gray asphalt"
wrote:

I've got TiVo connected through a router to a computer
which is connected through a seperate NIC card to another
computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Would it help if I bought a gigabit switch?
Thanks, I'm really like ignorant in this area.
: -)



If you want your computers to communicate with each other at gigabit
speeds, the best way is a gigabit switch between them, with the uplink
of the gigabit switch cabled to any port on the router. The tivo would
of course also be connected to the router or the gigabit switch, but
of course would see no speed benefit from being connected to the
gigabit switch.
This means your computers would both be directly on the network (no
more need for internet connection sharing), as well as the tivo.

Let me know if you need further clarification or have any questions.
-Greg

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

GTD wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:33:38 -0800, "AKA gray asphalt"
wrote:


I've got TiVo connected through a router to a computer
which is connected through a seperate NIC card to another
computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Would it help if I bought a gigabit switch?
Thanks, I'm really like ignorant in this area.
: -)




If you want your computers to communicate with each other at gigabit
speeds, the best way is a gigabit switch between them, with the uplink
of the gigabit switch cabled to any port on the router. The tivo would
of course also be connected to the router or the gigabit switch, but
of course would see no speed benefit from being connected to the
gigabit switch.
This means your computers would both be directly on the network (no
more need for internet connection sharing), as well as the tivo.

Let me know if you need further clarification or have any questions.
-Greg


Given AKA's clarifications, I agree with Greg's advice. Note that
Mike's point is also correct, the Tivo's transfer speed is not limited
by the network speed, but by the CPU-limited encryption. Hacked boxes
that don't encrypt are much faster.

RandY S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"Mike Hunt" wrote in message ...
On 2006-01-03, AKA gray asphalt wrote:

And then for the switch to go to the router to provide hardware
firewall. I have no idea what would be assigning IPs to what and if
it makes sense at all.

I think what you call the router would be assigning IPs to everything -
the switch would just be routing packets.

It's pretty weird to transfer a 1 Gig file in about 6 minutes between
computers and 1.5 hrs. from TiVo to computer.

That's got very little to do with the speed of your network. I transfer
1Gig files from my TiVo to my computer in 7-8 minutes which is on-par with
your numbers. To get the speedup, you have to hack your box so you can
copy the shows unencrypted. It's the encryption step that kills your copy
times. I strongly encourage people who download a lot of their shows to
do this.

--
This is my .sig

Sounds good. It only takes a couple of minutes to unencrypt them,
though. Should I google to se how to transfer unencrypted?

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"GTD" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:33:38 -0800, "AKA gray asphalt"
wrote:

I've got TiVo connected through a router to a computer
which is connected through a seperate NIC card to another
computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Would it help if I bought a gigabit switch?
Thanks, I'm really like ignorant in this area.
: -)



If you want your computers to communicate with each other at gigabit
speeds, the best way is a gigabit switch between them, with the uplink
of the gigabit switch cabled to any port on the router. The tivo would
of course also be connected to the router or the gigabit switch, but
of course would see no speed benefit from being connected to the
gigabit switch.
This means your computers would both be directly on the network (no
more need for internet connection sharing), as well as the tivo.

Let me know if you need further clarification or have any questions.
-Greg

Thanks. That was my guess but I would not have tried it
without the oversight of someone who sounds like thay know
what they are talking about. Thanks.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"Randy S." wrote in message ...
GTD wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:33:38 -0800, "AKA gray asphalt"
wrote:


I've got TiVo connected through a router to a computer
which is connected through a seperate NIC card to another
computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Would it help if I bought a gigabit switch?
Thanks, I'm really like ignorant in this area.
: -)




If you want your computers to communicate with each other at gigabit
speeds, the best way is a gigabit switch between them, with the uplink
of the gigabit switch cabled to any port on the router. The tivo would
of course also be connected to the router or the gigabit switch, but
of course would see no speed benefit from being connected to the
gigabit switch. This means your computers would both be directly on the network (no
more need for internet connection sharing), as well as the tivo.

Let me know if you need further clarification or have any questions.
-Greg


Given AKA's clarifications, I agree with Greg's advice. Note that Mike's point is also correct, the Tivo's transfer speed is not
limited by the network speed, but by the CPU-limited encryption. Hacked boxes that don't encrypt are much faster.

RandY S.

Can a Series 2 be hacked to avoid encryption?

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Given AKA's clarifications, I agree with Greg's advice. Note that Mike's point is also correct, the Tivo's transfer speed is not
limited by the network speed, but by the CPU-limited encryption. Hacked boxes that don't encrypt are much faster.

RandY S.


Can a Series 2 be hacked to avoid encryption?



Absolutely.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

AKA gray asphalt wrote:

computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Yes, the two computers are connected by a cross over cable.

A crossover cable by itself does not go at gigabit speeds.

It's pretty weird to transfer a 1 Gig file in about 6 minutes between
computers and 1.5 hrs. from TiVo to computer.

1,000 MB * 8 b/B = 8000 megabits. 8000/(6*60) = 23 megabits/sec.
The two NICs connected via crossover cable are running in 100 Mbps mode.
Purchasing a gigabit switch will make things different.
-Joe

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Joe Smith wrote:
AKA gray asphalt wrote:

computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.

Yes, the two computers are connected by a cross over cable.


A crossover cable by itself does not go at gigabit speeds.

It's pretty weird to transfer a 1 Gig file in about 6 minutes between
computers and 1.5 hrs. from TiVo to computer.


1,000 MB * 8 b/B = 8000 megabits. 8000/(6*60) = 23 megabits/sec.
The two NICs connected via crossover cable are running in 100 Mbps mode.
Purchasing a gigabit switch will make things different.
-Joe

You're probably correct, I don't think 2 directly connected NIC's will
autonegotiate to Gigabit speeds. I would think it ought to be possible
to set them manually to that rate, yes? I don't see any reason that a
switch would be required to operate at Gigabit speeds.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

How, please. Is it a hardware hack? Someone wrote that
it can be done by telnet but I doubt it.

"Randy S." wrote in message ...

Given AKA's clarifications, I agree with Greg's advice. Note that Mike's point is also correct, the Tivo's transfer speed is not
limited by the network speed, but by the CPU-limited encryption. Hacked boxes that don't encrypt are much faster.

RandY S.


Can a Series 2 be hacked to avoid encryption?



Absolutely.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"Randy S." wrote in message ...
Joe Smith wrote:
AKA gray asphalt wrote:

computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.

Yes, the two computers are connected by a cross over cable.


A crossover cable by itself does not go at gigabit speeds.

It's pretty weird to transfer a 1 Gig file in about 6 minutes between
computers and 1.5 hrs. from TiVo to computer.


1,000 MB * 8 b/B = 8000 megabits. 8000/(6*60) = 23 megabits/sec.
The two NICs connected via crossover cable are running in 100 Mbps mode.
Purchasing a gigabit switch will make things different.
-Joe

You're probably correct, I don't think 2 directly connected NIC's will autonegotiate to Gigabit speeds. I would think it ought to
be possible to set them manually to that rate, yes? I don't see any reason that a switch would be required to operate at Gigabit
speeds.

Randy S.

Then you guys think tha possibly I'm going to get an 10X increase in
bandwidth between the 2 computers by adding a switch or manually
setting the NIC cards? How fast should a 1Gig file transfer on a Gigabit
network?

How fast can a hard drive (100 133 150) transfer data? I've got most
of my hard drives on external USB boxes. They have ata 100 controllers.
Does that mean that they are limited to 100 in the same way that a network
is 10/100/1000 ... I mean are the units the same?

Thanks.
: -)

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Then you guys think tha possibly I'm going to get an 10X increase in
bandwidth between the 2 computers by adding a switch or manually
setting the NIC cards? How fast should a 1Gig file transfer on a Gigabit
network?

No, you will not likely get a 10x speed increase. There are too many
other choke points, some of which you have identified. Beyond your hard
drive's sustained read and write rate (which is less than IDE's max of
100 or 133 MB/s (1 MB/s = 8 Mbps)), there's also the PCI bandwidth
limitation (which is shared with all PCI devices and is only slightly
greater than 1000 Mbps itself).

Most consumer PC's can't maintain a full 1 Gbps of bandwidth at this
time. That doesn't mean they won't see a significant bump in speed when
using a gigabit NIC, just that you won't see a full 1 Gbps of throughput.


How fast can a hard drive (100 133 150) transfer data? I've got most
of my hard drives on external USB boxes. They have ata 100 controllers.
Does that mean that they are limited to 100 in the same way that a network
is 10/100/1000 ... I mean are the units the same?

No, the units aren't the same. HDD throughput numbers are usually
stated in Megabytes per second (MB/s), while network throughput is in
Megabits per second (Mbps). There are 8 bits in a byte, so the
conversion is simple, fortunately. Harder is the bus bandwidth which is
usually stated in Mhz, i.e. cycles per second. To get throughput you
have to multiply that by the bits per cycle, so a 32 bit bus operating
at 33.3 Mhz would yield 32/8*33.3*1,000,000/1024^22 = 127 MB/s. (The
*1,000,000/1024^2 converts the "Mega" in MegaHertz which is 1,000,000,
to the "Mega" in Megabyte which is 1024^2). For comparison, 1 Gbps =
1024 Mbps = 128 MB/s, so you can compare the standard 33.3 Mhz x 32 bit
PCI bus to Gigabit network speeds. Just remember that your network card
is only *one* of the data sources crossing the PCI bus, and they all
must share the total bandwidth (fortunately your Video card uses it's
own bus, either PCI-x or AGP).

Newer computers are starting to get around the PCI chokepoint by
numerous methods. Many newer SATA interfaces connect directly to the MB
chipset without going through the PCI bus at all, and a few on-board
Gigabit NICs are doing similar things. But those are the exception
rather than the rule, as of yet. Remember, most people's computers are
several years old at least, and won't catch up to the current specs for
years to come.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

AKA gray asphalt wrote:
How, please. Is it a hardware hack? Someone wrote that
it can be done by telnet but I doubt it.

No, it can't be done with telnet (at least not until *after* it's
hacked, which gets you into the old chicken/egg conundrum).

I'm not definitive on the "how" of this, which is why I deferred the
question to others. Jack Zwick usually has the best references for
this, but his latest one (the "Zipper"?) is only for DTV tivo's I think.
I've thought about doing it a couple times, but there's only been a
few programs that I've wanted to pull off, and TTG works for me in the
rare cases. If I transferred shows more often I'd probably dive into it.

It's not a trivial project, and does involve removing the hard drive
from the Tivo and putting it in a PC (*never* boot to windows with the
Tivo drive attached!), which does void your warranty. But it can be
done with some PC hardware and basic linux knowledge and/or research.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
You're probably correct, I don't think 2 directly connected NIC's will
autonegotiate to Gigabit speeds.

If they are within spec, they should negotiate correctly. The problem is
that many NICs will assume they will always be in "slave" mode because a
switch will always be higher in the master/slave negotiation. Manual setting
will solve this, though (if the NIC allows it), as you said.

--
Jeff Rife | "In those days Mars was a dreary uninhabitable
| wasteland much like Utah, but unlike Utah, Mars
| was eventually made livable."
| -- Professor Farnsworth, "Futurama"

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

AKA gray asphalt ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Then you guys think tha possibly I'm going to get an 10X increase in
bandwidth between the 2 computers by adding a switch or manually
setting the NIC cards? How fast should a 1Gig file transfer on a Gigabit
network?

Using two of my machines (with one having PCI-bandwidth limits on the NIC...
the other uses PCI-e), I get actual transfer rates of 33.5MB/sec for large
(1GB or larger) files, so it takes about 31 seconds to transfer 1GB. I
have nothing but gigabit switches, and only the very old hardware has less
than gigabit NICs.

How fast can a hard drive (100 133 150) transfer data?

That depends. I have a RAID-5 array of three SATA-II drives, and I get
about 120MB/sec write speeds, while a standard ATA-100 drive will give you
about 25-30MB/sec.

I've got most
of my hard drives on external USB boxes.

Well, that cuts you down to about 15MB/sec at most (for USB 2.0 at 480Mbps).

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/NoHelpDesk.jpg

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Newer computers are starting to get around the PCI chokepoint by
numerous methods. Many newer SATA interfaces connect directly to the MB
chipset without going through the PCI bus at all, and a few on-board
Gigabit NICs are doing similar things.

Except for AGP, PCI-X, and PCI Express, *everything* goes through a PCI
bus...the trick now is that motherboards now use multiple PCI buses that are
connected in more complex ways. But, you're still stuck at
33MHz * 32 bits = 133MB/sec for most devices. For a good overview of all
the bus technologies, see:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...ware/pcie.ars/

With PCIe x1 capable of 2500Mbps, it's more than adequate for handling all
types of network traffic and all older hard disk technologies...it's almost
good enough for full SATA-II. PCIe x16 (common for video cards) can handle
40000Mbps...that's 5GB/sec, which *still* isn't enough for some games. :)

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/ArloNJanis/manure.gif

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Jeff Rife wrote:
Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

Newer computers are starting to get around the PCI chokepoint by
numerous methods. Many newer SATA interfaces connect directly to the MB
chipset without going through the PCI bus at all, and a few on-board
Gigabit NICs are doing similar things.


Except for AGP, PCI-X, and PCI Express, *everything* goes through a PCI
bus...the trick now is that motherboards now use multiple PCI buses that are
connected in more complex ways. But, you're still stuck at
33MHz * 32 bits = 133MB/sec for most devices. For a good overview of all
the bus technologies, see:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...ware/pcie.ars/

Actually, not always true. Certain Intel chipsets hang a separate
communications channel for an onboard Gigabit NIC off the South Bridge:

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/955x/index.htm

(See the "View chipset diagram" link to see where the NIC is logically
connected off the PCI-express bus)

I guess you could argue that this is basically going through the PCIe
bus, but it's not obvious unless you look at the specs, most would
assume it's PCI based like 99.9% of the others.

With PCIe x1 capable of 2500Mbps, it's more than adequate for handling all
types of network traffic and all older hard disk technologies...it's almost
good enough for full SATA-II. PCIe x16 (common for video cards) can handle
40000Mbps...that's 5GB/sec, which *still* isn't enough for some games. :)

Yep, PCIe has more than enough throughput for Gigabit speeds. I'm just
pointing out that the vast majority of PC's out there aren't PCIe based.
All the cutrate newspaper flier deals that every person who doesn't
know anything about computers just bought over xmas were PCI-only based
systems that the manufacturers are dumping while they still can.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Actually, not always true. Certain Intel chipsets hang a separate
communications channel for an onboard Gigabit NIC off the South Bridge:

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/955x/index.htm

Right, like I said:

"Except for AGP, PCI-X, and PCI Express, *everything* goes through
a PCI bus"

That gigabit NIC is a native PCIe device.

BTW, the D955XBK is the motherboard I just bought, and I'd highly recommend
it for its features. I know Intel gets a bad rep for slower, hotter
processors, but the P4 dual-core 2.8GHz runs at 62°C with 2 copies of CPU
Burn-In running.

I just need another one so I can test real gigabit Ethernet throughput
(although even the current speeds make remote drives as fast as standard
IDE drives).

I guess you could argue that this is basically going through the PCIe
bus, but it's not obvious unless you look at the specs, most would
assume it's PCI based like 99.9% of the others.

As you can see, almoste everything on that chipset either runs straight
off of PCIe or alternate, non-PCI compatible bus architecture, but through
the much higher than PCI speed PCIe-compatible south bridge. Everything
maps to PCI plug-and-play, and most devices emulate a PCI bus connections,
but the physical connection isn't the same, so it's a pain for an OS that
doesn't have drivers and wants real low level access. As an example, the
SATA-II hardware is completely invisible to Linux, and I'm pretty sure
the NIC would be, too, since it required a driver update for XP.

As an aside, older Intel motherboards had similar weird connections for
their gigabit NICs. Check out:

http://developer.intel.com/products/..._schematic.gif

Notice that the gigabit Ethernet comes straight off the north bridge. It
did help throughput a bit, if you had native drivers. Otherwise, you
ended up going though the south bridge 10/100 connection. In essence, the
wire was placed into gigabit mode, but the data came through the 100Mbit
path inside the chip into the south bridge (it emulated exactly an Intel
gigabit NIC installed in a PCI slot). It's still damn fast, but limited
to 133MB/sec like all PCI south bridge chips.

Yep, PCIe has more than enough throughput for Gigabit speeds. I'm just
pointing out that the vast majority of PC's out there aren't PCIe based.

It's a real pain not having an AGP slot on most PCIe motherboards, so
upgrading is a lot more expensive, but the video is worth it for anything
intense. I can finally watch HDTV without dedicated MPEG-2 hardware and
have no burps.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/PaperOrPlastic.gif

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Randy S. wrote:
Joe Smith wrote:
A crossover cable by itself does not go at gigabit speeds.

You're probably correct, I don't think 2 directly connected NIC's will
autonegotiate to Gigabit speeds. I would think it ought to be possible
to set them manually to that rate, yes? I don't see any reason that a
switch would be required to operate at Gigabit speeds.

A crossover cable only crosses over two pair.
Gigabit ethernet uses all four pairs.
Plus I believe that signal amplification is needed.
A GigE switch is required to operate.
-Joe

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Right, like I said:

"Except for AGP, PCI-X, and PCI Express, *everything* goes through
a PCI bus"

That gigabit NIC is a native PCIe device.

Yep, I picked the wrong example. I was thinking about the 865 with the
dedicated communication streaming architecture which you so kindly found
for me below ;-). That one *doesn't* go through the PCie bus so it does
count as an exception. However it does seem that they abandoned it
since PCIe has more than enough throughput, so it's more of a curiousity
than an important point.

As an aside, older Intel motherboards had similar weird connections for
their gigabit NICs. Check out:

http://developer.intel.com/products/..._schematic.gif

Notice that the gigabit Ethernet comes straight off the north bridge. It
did help throughput a bit, if you had native drivers. Otherwise, you
ended up going though the south bridge 10/100 connection. In essence, the
wire was placed into gigabit mode, but the data came through the 100Mbit
path inside the chip into the south bridge (it emulated exactly an Intel
gigabit NIC installed in a PCI slot). It's still damn fast, but limited
to 133MB/sec like all PCI south bridge chips.

Ok, yeah, as I said above *that's* the one I was think of ;-).

Yep, PCIe has more than enough throughput for Gigabit speeds. I'm just
pointing out that the vast majority of PC's out there aren't PCIe based.

It's a real pain not having an AGP slot on most PCIe motherboards, so
upgrading is a lot more expensive, but the video is worth it for anything
intense. I can finally watch HDTV without dedicated MPEG-2 hardware and
have no burps.


You've got to feel sorry for the poor schlumps who thought they were
getting a good deal over the holidays and ended up with a brand new
outdated computer without PCIe or dual cores or any of the good stuff.

I haven't actually moved to PCIe myself yet, but I'm planning to build a
new one this year. I may wait until Intel comes out with their next
line of Dual cores that implement hyper-threading this summer. 2
physical cores acting as 4 virtual processors would be nice!

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Joe Smith wrote:
Randy S. wrote:

Joe Smith wrote:

A crossover cable by itself does not go at gigabit speeds.


You're probably correct, I don't think 2 directly connected NIC's will
autonegotiate to Gigabit speeds. I would think it ought to be
possible to set them manually to that rate, yes? I don't see any
reason that a switch would be required to operate at Gigabit speeds.


A crossover cable only crosses over two pair.
Gigabit ethernet uses all four pairs.
Plus I believe that signal amplification is needed.
A GigE switch is required to operate.
-Joe

You are correct that all 4 pair are used, rather than just 2 as in fast
ethernet (100 Mbps). However, amplification actually doesn't seem to be
required, nor a switch. It's just that the pinout is slightly different
than most network geeks were used to using:

http://logout.sh/computers/net/gigabit/

Note that Apple Gig NIC's have auto MDIX sensing and will operate at Gig
speeds directly connected even with a normal cable (though a crossover
cable will also work). They still may need to have the speed set
manually though.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
I haven't actually moved to PCIe myself yet, but I'm planning to build a
new one this year. I may wait until Intel comes out with their next
line of Dual cores that implement hyper-threading this summer.

Don't bother. The gains from hyper-threading (either benchmark or real world)
are almost zero except for a very few specific programs that have been
written with HT in mind. The problem is that HT just allows two programs
to access two different parts of the processor's various execution units
at the same time (like integer math and floating point math). If two programs
want to do the same thing at the same time, one has to wait.

Dual core, OTOH, is just two processors on one die, and they share only
almost exactly what two separate physical processors on one motherboard
share...it's just closer to the chip in this case. You get real performance
gains with dual core any time you have two threads wanting to do *anything*
at the same time.

With the price premium that the latest greatest processors command, you're
better off just waiting a month or two until the P4 D830 drops down a bit
to become competetive with the D820, and get the added bonus of better power
management along with a few more MHz. Otherwise, the D820 is the runaway
price/performance leader in the Intel line.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/UserFri...rCustomers.gif

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Jeff Rife wrote:
Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

I haven't actually moved to PCIe myself yet, but I'm planning to build a
new one this year. I may wait until Intel comes out with their next
line of Dual cores that implement hyper-threading this summer.


Don't bother. The gains from hyper-threading (either benchmark or real world)
are almost zero except for a very few specific programs that have been
written with HT in mind. The problem is that HT just allows two programs
to access two different parts of the processor's various execution units
at the same time (like integer math and floating point math). If two programs
want to do the same thing at the same time, one has to wait.

Certainly, the speed gains of HT w/ any *one* specific program is
minimal, even if it's multithreaded. However, I do believe there are
some decent multi-tasking gains which are reasonably useful on a general
use computer (not so much for a single task oriented machine. Probably
only 25-40% of that of a true dual core though. But with a dual-core HT
processor you are getting both, so it can't hurt ;-).

With the price premium that the latest greatest processors command, you're
better off just waiting a month or two until the P4 D830 drops down a bit
to become competetive with the D820, and get the added bonus of better power
management along with a few more MHz. Otherwise, the D820 is the runaway
price/performance leader in the Intel line.

True. OTOH, AMD is supposed to come out w/ Quad cores this year ;-).

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
True. OTOH, AMD is supposed to come out w/ Quad cores this year ;-).

Unfortunately, even if these are sold at a loss, any Microsoft OS will cost
you so much more to be able to utilize the extra 2 "processors" that it would
be hard to justify.

And, the support for games on Windows Server 2003 isn't very good. :)

--
Jeff Rife | "Because he was human; because he had goodness;
| because he was moral they called him insane.
| Delusions of grandeur; visions of splendor;
| A manic-depressive, he walks in the rain."
| -- Rush, "Cinderella Man"

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Jeff Rife wrote:
Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

True. OTOH, AMD is supposed to come out w/ Quad cores this year ;-).


Unfortunately, even if these are sold at a loss, any Microsoft OS will cost
you so much more to be able to utilize the extra 2 "processors" that it would
be hard to justify.

And, the support for games on Windows Server 2003 isn't very good. :)


Well, you've got a point there. I have a feeling that w/ multi-core
processors getting pushed into the mainstream, MS may have to start
including dual-core support in it's consumer products. Come to think
of it, I don't know what the core support is in Vista. I will be taking
part in the TAP program w/ MS here in a couple weeks, so I should get an
advanced look at it at least.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Well, you've got a point there. I have a feeling that w/ multi-core
processors getting pushed into the mainstream, MS may have to start
including dual-core support in it's consumer products. Come to think
of it, I don't know what the core support is in Vista. I will be taking
part in the TAP program w/ MS here in a couple weeks, so I should get an
advanced look at it at least.

If they have a "home" version of Vista (I hope not), I can pretty much
guarantee it will only support two processors, forcing people with more
powerful machines at home to use the "Pro" version. The "Pro" version of
Vista's "desktop" line (as opposed to whatever the hell Vista Server will
be called) will likely change somewhat from XP Pro. I suspect it will
support some bizarre combination that allows no more than 4 total execution
units on no more than two physical processors.

--
Jeff Rife | "As usual, a knife-wielding maniac
| has shown us the way."
|
| -- Bart Simpson

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Jeff Rife wrote:
Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

Well, you've got a point there. I have a feeling that w/ multi-core
processors getting pushed into the mainstream, MS may have to start
including dual-core support in it's consumer products. Come to think
of it, I don't know what the core support is in Vista. I will be taking
part in the TAP program w/ MS here in a couple weeks, so I should get an
advanced look at it at least.


If they have a "home" version of Vista (I hope not), I can pretty much
guarantee it will only support two processors, forcing people with more
powerful machines at home to use the "Pro" version. The "Pro" version of
Vista's "desktop" line (as opposed to whatever the hell Vista Server will
be called) will likely change somewhat from XP Pro. I suspect it will
support some bizarre combination that allows no more than 4 total execution
units on no more than two physical processors.


Ha, Vista will no longer be as simple as Home vs. Pro. Now we'll have:

For home users:

- Vista Starter Edition (basically only available in 3rd world markets)
- Vista Home Basic Edition
- Vista Home Premium Edition
- Vista Ultimate Edition

For Business users:

- Vista Small Business Edition
- Vista Professional Edition
- Vista Enterprise Edition

(all subject to change, of course)

As of yet, it seems that 2 processors is still the max supported, though
I don't believe that an HT-enabled processor counts as 2. I would
presume a dual core processor *would*, however the limitation may be
socket based, and not core based, which would remove a lot of the
limitation.

More info here (warning, overly optimistic marketspeak ahead!):

http://winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_editions.asp

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"AKA gray asphalt" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"GTD" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:33:38 -0800, "AKA gray asphalt"
wrote:

I've got TiVo connected through a router to a computer
which is connected through a seperate NIC card to another
computer because the router doesn't have gigabit bandwidth.
Would it help if I bought a gigabit switch?
Thanks, I'm really like ignorant in this area.
: -)



If you want your computers to communicate with each other at gigabit
speeds, the best way is a gigabit switch between them, with the uplink
of the gigabit switch cabled to any port on the router. The tivo would
of course also be connected to the router or the gigabit switch, but
of course would see no speed benefit from being connected to the
gigabit switch.
This means your computers would both be directly on the network (no
more need for internet connection sharing), as well as the tivo.

Let me know if you need further clarification or have any questions.
-Greg

Thanks. That was my guess but I would not have tried it
without the oversight of someone who sounds like thay know
what they are talking about. Thanks.


You might want to consider the SMC 8508T as it handles Jumbo
packets and is totally "Auto-Sensing", making setup a breeze.

Luck;
Ken

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

In article , Jeff Rife wrote:
Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
True. OTOH, AMD is supposed to come out w/ Quad cores this year ;-).

Unfortunately, even if these are sold at a loss, any Microsoft OS will cost
you so much more to be able to utilize the extra 2 "processors" that it would
be hard to justify.

Form what i understand the Windows Xp pro version is designed ground up to
utilize multiprocessors. So it should scale up.




And, the support for games on Windows Server 2003 isn't very good. :)

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

GMAN ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Unfortunately, even if these are sold at a loss, any Microsoft OS will cost
you so much more to be able to utilize the extra 2 "processors" that it would
be hard to justify.

Form what i understand the Windows Xp pro version is designed ground up to
utilize multiprocessors. So it should scale up.

Yes and no.

The problem is that Windows XP absolutely will not use more than 2
processors despite the fact that it uses the same kernel as Windows Server
2003 (which can use 4 processors) and Windows Server 2003 Datacenter
Edition (which has an even higher limit...8 or 16 processors). The
limitation is purely artificial and license-based.

But, the problem is that the "server" products aren't as good at "desktop"
things as XP (mostly because of tighter security). It would appear that
Vista Ultimate Edition will help solve this by having all the "home",
"desktop", and "multimedia" features while getting some of the "power"
features (like more processor support) that are currently only part of
the "server" line.

It's certainly what I'll end up running, since I have to have the ability
to log in to a domain, yet I'll want to play games, and that's the only
Vista version that really seems to do both of those well.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/UserFri...rCustomers.gif

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Jeff Rife wrote:
GMAN ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

Unfortunately, even if these are sold at a loss, any Microsoft OS will cost
you so much more to be able to utilize the extra 2 "processors" that it would
be hard to justify.


Form what i understand the Windows Xp pro version is designed ground up to
utilize multiprocessors. So it should scale up.


Yes and no.

The problem is that Windows XP absolutely will not use more than 2
processors despite the fact that it uses the same kernel as Windows Server
2003 (which can use 4 processors) and Windows Server 2003 Datacenter
Edition (which has an even higher limit...8 or 16 processors).

A Quibble. While similar, the XP kernel and the 2003 kernel are
different. Part of the reason Vista got further delayed is because they
moved it off of the XP kernel to the 2003 kernel.

The
limitation is purely artificial and license-based.

This is very true.

But, the problem is that the "server" products aren't as good at "desktop"
things as XP (mostly because of tighter security).

You can turn most of these features off, but they're on by default and
finding all of them is a PITA. I never recommend running a server OS as
a desktopo machine anyway, too many extraneous processes that slow you
down and increase vulnerability (esp. if you've turned all the enhanced
security off).

It would appear that
Vista Ultimate Edition will help solve this by having all the "home",
"desktop", and "multimedia" features while getting some of the "power"
features (like more processor support) that are currently only part of
the "server" line.

It's certainly what I'll end up running, since I have to have the ability
to log in to a domain, yet I'll want to play games, and that's the only
Vista version that really seems to do both of those well.


I would imagine most of what "Ultimate" adds to the "Pro" version of
Vista is the multimedia features rather than enhanced gaming. But I can
certainly see that being desireable.

Randy S.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

Well, I bought a gigbit router to go with the CAT6
cables so
that my gigabit NIC cards would be getting full
bandwidth.
Now I'm told that since the controllers in my
external hard
drives are ATA100 and 133 for the internal ones,
which is
burst speed, that I will get no more bandwidth
that I would
with the 10/100 router I had before. And since I
do not
have a superfast internet connection and don't
play games,
I'm gaining nothing with the gigabit router.
: -) ?

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"AKA gray asphalt" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

Well, I bought a gigbit router to go with the CAT6 cables so
that my gigabit NIC cards would be getting full bandwidth.
Now I'm told that since the controllers in my external hard
drives are ATA100 and 133 for the internal ones, which is
burst speed, that I will get no more bandwidth that I would
with the 10/100 router I had before. And since I do not
have a superfast internet connection and don't play games,
I'm gaining nothing with the gigabit router.
: -) ?


I'm sorry to hear that, because with my Gigabit switch
I noticed a very substantial difference in the transfer
speeds between my computers as well as between my
computers and my NAS. In fact, I now see no real
difference between sending a file to a local drive or one
elsewhere on my LAN.

My router, as does yours, connects to the Internet through
a modem that functions at only 10 Mbps. That is the state
of things for consumer Internet service.

I also have a HD Media Player on my LAN that connects
at 100 Mbps, to play High Definition WMV files as well as
more modest bandwidth MPEG2 files. So there is still much
that can fit down a 100 Mbps pipe. But there is a difference
between what can be streamed and how long it takes to transfer
the whole file.

When I was transferring files at 100 Mbps there was a
noticeable delay for all but the smaller files, at 1000 Mbps all
but the largest files transfer without delay.

Luck;
Ken

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"Ken Maltby" wrote in
message
...

"AKA gray asphalt"
wrote in message
news:[email protected]

Well, I bought a gigbit router to go with the
CAT6 cables so
that my gigabit NIC cards would be getting full
bandwidth.
Now I'm told that since the controllers in my
external hard
drives are ATA100 and 133 for the internal
ones, which is
burst speed, that I will get no more bandwidth
that I would
with the 10/100 router I had before. And since
I do not
have a superfast internet connection and don't
play games,
I'm gaining nothing with the gigabit router.
: -) ?


I'm sorry to hear that, because with my Gigabit
switch
I noticed a very substantial difference in the
transfer
speeds between my computers as well as between
my
computers and my NAS. In fact, I now see no
real
difference between sending a file to a local
drive or one
elsewhere on my LAN.

My router, as does yours, connects to the
Internet through
a modem that functions at only 10 Mbps. That is
the state
of things for consumer Internet service.

I also have a HD Media Player on my LAN that
connects
at 100 Mbps, to play High Definition WMV files
as well as
more modest bandwidth MPEG2 files. So there is
still much
that can fit down a 100 Mbps pipe. But there is
a difference
between what can be streamed and how long it
takes to transfer
the whole file.

When I was transferring files at 100 Mbps
there was a
noticeable delay for all but the smaller files,
at 1000 Mbps all
but the largest files transfer without delay.

Luck;
Ken

Technically, I think, the hard drives are the
weakest link.
the slowest but I'm going to do some tests with
both
routers since maybe that is only the way to know
with a
little more certainty what is real and what is
statistics.
: -)

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"AKA gray asphalt" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


Technically, I think, the hard drives are the weakest link.
the slowest but I'm going to do some tests with both
routers since maybe that is only the way to know with a
little more certainty what is real and what is statistics.
: -)


First off, fix your word wrap.

Unless something is slowing down your LAN you should
notice the difference right away. Try timing the transfer of
a 500MB file.

Luck;
Ken

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"Ken Maltby" wrote in
message
...

"AKA gray asphalt"
wrote in message
news:[email protected]


Technically, I think, the hard drives are the
weakest link.
the slowest but I'm going to do some tests with
both
routers since maybe that is only the way to
know with a
little more certainty what is real and what is
statistics.
: -)


First off, fix your word wrap.

Unless something is slowing down your LAN you
should
notice the difference right away. Try timing
the transfer of
a 500MB file.

Luck;
Ken

What do you see about my word wrap? It looks fine
from here. Wrapping at about 50 characters...

I tried to transfer a 4 Gig file and it seemed to
be cruising until about the 1/4 way, then it went
to 30 minutes or so, so I cancelled it.

Is there a way to network with TiVo and second computer?
 

"AKA gray asphalt" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Ken Maltby" wrote in message
...

"AKA gray asphalt" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


Technically, I think, the hard drives are the weakest link.
the slowest but I'm going to do some tests with both
routers since maybe that is only the way to know with a
little more certainty what is real and what is statistics.
: -)


First off, fix your word wrap.

Unless something is slowing down your LAN you should
notice the difference right away. Try timing the transfer of
a 500MB file.

Luck;
Ken

What do you see about my word wrap? It looks fine from here. Wrapping at
about 50 characters...

I tried to transfer a 4 Gig file and it seemed to be cruising until about
the 1/4 way, then it went to 30 minutes or so, so I cancelled it.


Ok, for comparision I just copied a 4,654,580 KB VOB
File from one computer to my NAS and it took 5min. 28sec.

Copping the same file from one 10,000rpm SATA Raptor to
another one on the same computer took 1min 29sec.

I just did another set using a 515,612 KB file :

from one computer to my NAS and it took 37sec.

from one 10,000rpm SATA Raptor to another one on the same
computer took 12sec.

There is something wrong with your gigabit LAN, if your
4Gig file is taking more than 6min.

Luck;
Ken