In article , bearman wrote:

OTA is not a flop in Albuquerque.

"Bob Miller" ranted in message
...

No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

Nor in Los Angeles. But it is not yet a huge success either. As
with all new technologies, there is a chicken/egg situation where
there is less incentive for the broadcasters to put out HD (or DTV)
product while there are few viewers to see it, and they are waiting
for the broadcasters. But I think the situation is changing, perhaps
rapidly. Last weekend, I saw a display at the local Circuit City
with four different models of OTA HDTV receivers. They were all
in the $300 range, if my memory serves.

This reminds me of the situation where VCRs were only being purchased
by 'early adopters' and video 'buffs', and were quite expensive. As
the economics of scale (and the amortization of development costs)
brought down the prices of the product, more and more people dipped
into the pool, found it good, and showed it to friends... and a
successful market grew out of it.

Maybe the best thing we can do to help HDTV along is to invite
bunches of people over to watch Monday Night Football? :-)

My gut feeling is that the breakthrough price for OTA receivers
as a separate component would be about $200.

wrote in message
...
In article , bearman
wrote:

OTA is not a flop in Albuquerque.

"Bob Miller" ranted in message
...

No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

Nor in Los Angeles. But it is not yet a huge success either. As
with all new technologies, there is a chicken/egg situation where
there is less incentive for the broadcasters to put out HD (or DTV)
product while there are few viewers to see it, and they are waiting
for the broadcasters. But I think the situation is changing, perhaps
rapidly. Last weekend, I saw a display at the local Circuit City
with four different models of OTA HDTV receivers. They were all
in the $300 range, if my memory serves.

This reminds me of the situation where VCRs were only being purchased
by 'early adopters' and video 'buffs', and were quite expensive. As
the economics of scale (and the amortization of development costs)
brought down the prices of the product, more and more people dipped
into the pool, found it good, and showed it to friends... and a
successful market grew out of it.

Maybe the best thing we can do to help HDTV along is to invite
bunches of people over to watch Monday Night Football? :-)

My gut feeling is that the breakthrough price for OTA receivers
as a separate component would be about $200.

DTV receivers are selling at a 50,000 a week clip in the UK and they still
talk about how long it will take for the DTV transition and how the present
pace is not fast enough. They still talk of mandating receivers in the UK to
get the job done. Since the UK is one sixth the size of the US we would have
to be selling OTA DTV receivers at a 300,000 a week clip to just match the
rate in the UK.

Not only are we not selling receivers at anything resembling a clip in the
US but also people who buy HDTV monitors are not even buying OTA receivers.
Maybe one out of ten and in many cases these are dual satellite receivers
that will never be used for OTA.

To have a successful OTA DTV transition in the US we will have to have
inexpensive converter DTV receivers for the 300 million analog sets that are
out there and for the 25 million analog sets that are being sold each year.
Where are they?

OTA DTV is such a disaster in the US that the FCC felt they had to mandate
receivers in every TV set. And now we have the CEA (Consumer Electronic
Association) fighting that in court. The very organization that pushed for
the DTV transition is fighting to stop the mandate, the one thing that could
at least do a good job of pretending that people will have access to OTA.

Ask yourselves why the CEA is against this. It is an easy one. They do not
want to deal with the problems that come with people having reception OTA
problems and returning the sets. They are arguing in court right now that
90% of viewers do not need OTA because they have satellite or cable. They
are arguing correctly IMO that people that will not use the OTA receiver
should not be forced to buy it to subsidize the 10% who want one.

The DTV OTA transition is an utter disaster by any measure in the US and the
mandate will not help.

wrote in message
...
In article , bearman
wrote:

OTA is not a flop in Albuquerque.

"Bob Miller" ranted in message
...

No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

Nor in Los Angeles. But it is not yet a huge success either. As
with all new technologies, there is a chicken/egg situation where
there is less incentive for the broadcasters to put out HD (or DTV)
product while there are few viewers to see it, and they are waiting
for the broadcasters. But I think the situation is changing, perhaps
rapidly. Last weekend, I saw a display at the local Circuit City
with four different models of OTA HDTV receivers. They were all
in the $300 range, if my memory serves.

This reminds me of the situation where VCRs were only being purchased
by 'early adopters' and video 'buffs', and were quite expensive. As
the economics of scale (and the amortization of development costs)
brought down the prices of the product, more and more people dipped
into the pool, found it good, and showed it to friends... and a
successful market grew out of it.

Maybe the best thing we can do to help HDTV along is to invite
bunches of people over to watch Monday Night Football? :-)

My gut feeling is that the breakthrough price for OTA receivers
as a separate component would be about $200.

DTV receivers are selling at a 50,000 a week clip in the UK and they still
talk about how long it will take for the DTV transition and how the present
pace is not fast enough. They still talk of mandating receivers in the UK to
get the job done. Since the UK is one sixth the size of the US we would have
to be selling OTA DTV receivers at a 300,000 a week clip to just match the
rate in the UK.

Not only are we not selling receivers at anything resembling a clip in the
US but also people who buy HDTV monitors are not even buying OTA receivers.
Maybe one out of ten and in many cases these are dual satellite receivers
that will never be used for OTA.

To have a successful OTA DTV transition in the US we will have to have
inexpensive converter DTV receivers for the 300 million analog sets that are
out there and for the 25 million analog sets that are being sold each year.
Where are they?

OTA DTV is such a disaster in the US that the FCC felt they had to mandate
receivers in every TV set. And now we have the CEA (Consumer Electronic
Association) fighting that in court. The very organization that pushed for
the DTV transition is fighting to stop the mandate, the one thing that could
at least do a good job of pretending that people will have access to OTA.

Ask yourselves why the CEA is against this. It is an easy one. They do not
want to deal with the problems that come with people having reception OTA
problems and returning the sets. They are arguing in court right now that
90% of viewers do not need OTA because they have satellite or cable. They
are arguing correctly IMO that people that will not use the OTA receiver
should not be forced to buy it to subsidize the 10% who want one.

The DTV OTA transition is an utter disaster by any measure in the US and the
mandate will not help.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:29:30 -0700, wrote:

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
...

:
: No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

=================
Really?
What world are you living in?
====================

I imagine there can be all sorts of reception problems when you live
under a bridge.


John.

--
*** John P. Kolesar ***
*** --- http://www.shagg.net/ ***
*** Valley Mead Brewery ***
***********************

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:29:30 -0700, wrote:

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
...

:
: No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

=================
Really?
What world are you living in?
====================

I imagine there can be all sorts of reception problems when you live
under a bridge.


John.

--
*** John P. Kolesar ***
*** --- http://www.shagg.net/ ***
*** Valley Mead Brewery ***
***********************

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:29:30 -0700, wrote:

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
...

:
: No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

=================
Really?
What world are you living in?
====================

I imagine there can be all sorts of reception problems when you live
under a bridge.


John.

I suggest that reception problems, cost of receivers, lack of receivers that
would both be inexpensive enough and ACTUALLY available for converting DTV
signals to analog TV sets are some of the main problems that there is a
disaster in the US DTV transition.

If we had converted or did convert now to DVB-T COFDM those problems would
be solved. SDTV converters are available at as low as $50 NOW with COFDM.
Reception is simply not a problem whether you are moving or stationary. No
need for rotors and directional antennas to avoid multipath. Multipath is
your friend with COFDM DVB-T.

Living under a bridge would not be a problem with COFDM either.

So what would you suggest the reason is for the DTV OTA disaster if not the
above?

You can't say lack of programming because people are buying HDTV receivers
to watch DVDs and cable and satellite while ignoring OTA receivers which
would allow them to receive HD programs OTA where most of the HDTV content
is.

So why are people specifically not buying OTA receivers? They are buying
them in droves in Europe and they don't even have the biggest draw for DTV
OTA, HDTV.

In Berlin 95% of people have cable or satellite and the OTA DTV does not
offer HDTV and yet they are buying all the receivers they can get. Why?

Something does not make sense here. We have the killer ap, HDTV. People ARE
buying HDTV sets but they are NOT BUYING THE OTA RECEIVERS!!!

In Europe they do not have the killer ap, HDTV. People are buying OTA DTV
receivers. They don't have to, they have more cable customers than we do.

Why? The receivers are inexpensive, they work plug and play with no fancy
antenna cost or legwork and they are available, lots of choice.

BTW BMW and Mercedes have announced that they will be including DTV
receivers in their vehicles.

So make another joke or try to answer the questions.

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:29:30 -0700, wrote:

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
...

:
: No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

=================
Really?
What world are you living in?
====================

I imagine there can be all sorts of reception problems when you live
under a bridge.


John.

I suggest that reception problems, cost of receivers, lack of receivers that
would both be inexpensive enough and ACTUALLY available for converting DTV
signals to analog TV sets are some of the main problems that there is a
disaster in the US DTV transition.

If we had converted or did convert now to DVB-T COFDM those problems would
be solved. SDTV converters are available at as low as $50 NOW with COFDM.
Reception is simply not a problem whether you are moving or stationary. No
need for rotors and directional antennas to avoid multipath. Multipath is
your friend with COFDM DVB-T.

Living under a bridge would not be a problem with COFDM either.

So what would you suggest the reason is for the DTV OTA disaster if not the
above?

You can't say lack of programming because people are buying HDTV receivers
to watch DVDs and cable and satellite while ignoring OTA receivers which
would allow them to receive HD programs OTA where most of the HDTV content
is.

So why are people specifically not buying OTA receivers? They are buying
them in droves in Europe and they don't even have the biggest draw for DTV
OTA, HDTV.

In Berlin 95% of people have cable or satellite and the OTA DTV does not
offer HDTV and yet they are buying all the receivers they can get. Why?

Something does not make sense here. We have the killer ap, HDTV. People ARE
buying HDTV sets but they are NOT BUYING THE OTA RECEIVERS!!!

In Europe they do not have the killer ap, HDTV. People are buying OTA DTV
receivers. They don't have to, they have more cable customers than we do.

Why? The receivers are inexpensive, they work plug and play with no fancy
antenna cost or legwork and they are available, lots of choice.

BTW BMW and Mercedes have announced that they will be including DTV
receivers in their vehicles.

So make another joke or try to answer the questions.

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:06:25 GMT, wrote:

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:29:30 -0700, wrote:

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
...

:
: No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

=================
Really?
What world are you living in?
====================

I imagine there can be all sorts of reception problems when you live
under a bridge.

So make another joke or try to answer the questions.

That was not a joke. I was very serious about you being a troll.


John.

--
*** John P. Kolesar ***
*** --- http://www.shagg.net/ ***
*** Valley Mead Brewery ***
***********************

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:06:25 GMT, wrote:

"John 'Shaggy' Kolesar" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:29:30 -0700, wrote:

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
...

:
: No so far HDTV OTA is a flop, everywhere.

=================
Really?
What world are you living in?
====================

I imagine there can be all sorts of reception problems when you live
under a bridge.

So make another joke or try to answer the questions.

That was not a joke. I was very serious about you being a troll.


John.

--
*** John P. Kolesar ***
*** --- http://www.shagg.net/ ***
*** Valley Mead Brewery ***
***********************

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
hlink.net...
:
: I suggest that reception problems, cost of receivers, lack of receivers that
: would both be inexpensive enough and ACTUALLY available for converting DTV
: signals to analog TV sets are some of the main problems that there is a
: disaster in the US DTV transition.

====================
What disaster?
Care to provide some real basis for that insane claim?
====================
:
: So what would you suggest the reason is for the DTV OTA disaster if not the
: above?

=========================
Once again, there is no disaster.
==========================
:
: You can't say lack of programming because people are buying HDTV receivers
: to watch DVDs and cable and satellite while ignoring OTA receivers which
: would allow them to receive HD programs OTA where most of the HDTV content
: is.

========================
Virtually ALL HD receivers handle OTA.
You are obviously ignorant of the facts concerning a subject you love to spout forth
upon.
=========================
: