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BBC iMP Trial to start 1st September
From www.digitalradiotech.co.uk
The BBC's interactive media player (iMP) is starting a wider trial on 1st September. Only a limited number of radio shows and TV programmes will be available in the trial at first, although more shows might be added closer to launch date, apparently. The iMP uses peer-to-peer technology, which is the same technology that the file-sharing networks use where people download parts of each programme from multiple users. The reason why there will only be a limited number of programmes available is probably due to there only being 5,000 trialists, because the fewer programmes there are available the more likely it will be that people will be able to download from multiple users. It is planned that all TV and radio programmes will be available when the iMP is fully launched next year, and programmes will be available for 7 days after they've been broadcast. The radio shows are apparently going to use 128kbps WMA9, which means that they should have better audio quality than is available on the BBC's radio stations on DAB or digital TV. However, WMA9 might not be used when the system is fully launched next year due to the desire that Apple Macs be supported. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users and is the best-performing well-known audio codec at 128kbps. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
From www.digitalradiotech.co.uk The BBC's interactive media player (iMP) is starting a wider trial on 1st September. Only a limited number of radio shows and TV programmes will be available in the trial at first, although more shows might be added closer to launch date, apparently. The iMP uses peer-to-peer technology, which is the same technology that the file-sharing networks use where people download parts of each programme from multiple users. The reason why there will only be a limited number of programmes available is probably due to there only being 5,000 trialists, because the fewer programmes there are available the more likely it will be that people will be able to download from multiple users. It is planned that all TV and radio programmes will be available when the iMP is fully launched next year, and programmes will be available for 7 days after they've been broadcast. The radio shows are apparently going to use 128kbps WMA9, which means that they should have better audio quality than is available on the BBC's radio stations on DAB or digital TV. However, WMA9 might not be used when the system is fully launched next year due to the desire that Apple Macs be supported. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users and is the best-performing well-known audio codec at 128kbps. What about .OGG Vorbis? It's open, available on different platforms and appears to sound good at that rate. Bruce -- Replace the by by blueyonder |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
The radio shows are apparently going to use 128kbps WMA9, which means that they should have better audio quality than is available on the BBC's radio stations on DAB or digital TV. However, WMA9 might not be used when the system is fully launched next year due to the desire that Apple Macs be supported. Does that mean that they will use copy-protection? Because Windows Media 9 is also available on the Mac, only the recent DRM versions are not supported. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users Not to mention iPod users... |
Giuseppe wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: The radio shows are apparently going to use 128kbps WMA9, which means that they should have better audio quality than is available on the BBC's radio stations on DAB or digital TV. However, WMA9 might not be used when the system is fully launched next year due to the desire that Apple Macs be supported. Does that mean that they will use copy-protection? Yes, they are. Because Windows Media 9 is also available on the Mac, only the recent DRM versions are not supported. Right. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users Not to mention iPod users... Yes, but one drawback of AAC is that it's only the iPod that supports it out of the MP3 players. Or at least I can't think of any other MP3 players that support AAC. Unfortunately, a lot of MP3 players do support WMA. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
Well untill BBC DAB improves I will not be interested in any new radio
system from the BBC. Unfortunately I do not think the broadcasters think or care about top quaulity anymore. -- Regards, David Please reply to News Group |
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... From www.digitalradiotech.co.uk The BBC's interactive media player (iMP) is starting a wider trial on 1st September. Only a limited number of radio shows and TV programmes will be available in the trial at first, although more shows might be added closer to launch date, apparently. The iMP uses peer-to-peer technology, which is the same technology that the file-sharing networks use where people download parts of each programme from multiple users. The reason why there will only be a limited number of programmes available is probably due to there only being 5,000 trialists, because the fewer programmes there are available the more likely it will be that people will be able to download from multiple users. It is planned that all TV and radio programmes will be available when the iMP is fully launched next year, and programmes will be available for 7 days after they've been broadcast. The radio shows are apparently going to use 128kbps WMA9, which means that they should have better audio quality than is available on the BBC's radio stations on DAB or digital TV. However, WMA9 might not be used when the system is fully launched next year due to the desire that Apple Macs be supported. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users and is the best-performing well-known audio codec at 128kbps. Slightly OT know Steve, but I tend to use DAB basically as a higher quality alternative to AM Radio. However I was reading in this month's New Scientist about a system called DRM which could be due to take off during the next year or two, what's your own opinion on it, you think that it will rival or maybe even supersede DAB? http://www.drm.org/system/technicalaspect.php -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 16:20:09 GMT, David wrote:
Well untill BBC DAB improves I will not be interested in any new radio system from the BBC. What does iMP have to do with Radio Waves? It uses this new-fangles Internet thingy. -- Dave |
"Dave MacRae" wrote in message
... On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 16:20:09 GMT, David wrote: Well untill BBC DAB improves I will not be interested in any new radio system from the BBC. What does iMP have to do with Radio Waves? It uses this new-fangles Internet thingy. What does hospital radio have to do with radio waves? -- Max Demian |
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DAB and DRM will be complementary systems. Set designers are already looking
at sets combining the two systems. So it won't be a question of one over the other the DRM system using what is now called SW, LW, & MW will be capable of longer distance reception. "Ivan" wrote in message ... "DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... From www.digitalradiotech.co.uk The BBC's interactive media player (iMP) is starting a wider trial on 1st September. Only a limited number of radio shows and TV programmes will be available in the trial at first, although more shows might be added closer to launch date, apparently. The iMP uses peer-to-peer technology, which is the same technology that the file-sharing networks use where people download parts of each programme from multiple users. The reason why there will only be a limited number of programmes available is probably due to there only being 5,000 trialists, because the fewer programmes there are available the more likely it will be that people will be able to download from multiple users. It is planned that all TV and radio programmes will be available when the iMP is fully launched next year, and programmes will be available for 7 days after they've been broadcast. The radio shows are apparently going to use 128kbps WMA9, which means that they should have better audio quality than is available on the BBC's radio stations on DAB or digital TV. However, WMA9 might not be used when the system is fully launched next year due to the desire that Apple Macs be supported. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users and is the best-performing well-known audio codec at 128kbps. Slightly OT know Steve, but I tend to use DAB basically as a higher quality alternative to AM Radio. However I was reading in this month's New Scientist about a system called DRM which could be due to take off during the next year or two, what's your own opinion on it, you think that it will rival or maybe even supersede DAB? http://www.drm.org/system/technicalaspect.php -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Does that mean that they will use copy-protection? Yes, they are. I wonder why, it's not like their most popular shows are not already on p2p. There must be tens of thousands of people outside the UK already watching Extras, available on popular bit torrent sites a few hours after the BBC2 airing. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users Not to mention iPod users... Yes, but one drawback of AAC is that it's only the iPod that supports it out of the MP3 players. Or at least I can't think of any other MP3 players that support AAC. Unfortunately, a lot of MP3 players do support WMA. But all those players combined probably don't even have as much market (and mind-) share as the iPods. |
wowfabgroovy wrote:
they will go with whatever format is the most popular/widely used, relative quality won't even be a consideration. they will also want some form of drm restrictions to stop them from working after a set time (probably 7 days from broadcast). so it will be wma/wmv. No it won't. apple will have caught up by the time it's launched. Somehow I can't see Apple ditching their DRM and Quicktime platform and choose instead their main competitors' proprietary systems. |
Giuseppe wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: Does that mean that they will use copy-protection? Yes, they are. I wonder why, it's not like their most popular shows are not already on p2p. There must be tens of thousands of people outside the UK already watching Extras, available on popular bit torrent sites a few hours after the BBC2 airing. Yeah, but that's not supposed to happen. And then there's the issue over radio playing copyrighted music, so you just imagine what the record industry would say if the shows had no protection. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users Not to mention iPod users... Yes, but one drawback of AAC is that it's only the iPod that supports it out of the MP3 players. Or at least I can't think of any other MP3 players that support AAC. Unfortunately, a lot of MP3 players do support WMA. But all those players combined probably don't even have as much market (and mind-) share as the iPods. I once read that smaller MP3 players were the best selling, and iPods are just far more famous. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
Ivan wrote:
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... From www.digitalradiotech.co.uk The BBC's interactive media player (iMP) is starting a wider trial on 1st September. Only a limited number of radio shows and TV programmes will be available in the trial at first, although more shows might be added closer to launch date, apparently. The iMP uses peer-to-peer technology, which is the same technology that the file-sharing networks use where people download parts of each programme from multiple users. The reason why there will only be a limited number of programmes available is probably due to there only being 5,000 trialists, because the fewer programmes there are available the more likely it will be that people will be able to download from multiple users. It is planned that all TV and radio programmes will be available when the iMP is fully launched next year, and programmes will be available for 7 days after they've been broadcast. The radio shows are apparently going to use 128kbps WMA9, which means that they should have better audio quality than is available on the BBC's radio stations on DAB or digital TV. However, WMA9 might not be used when the system is fully launched next year due to the desire that Apple Macs be supported. Hopefully they'll adopt AAC instead, which would allow support for both Windows and Mac users and is the best-performing well-known audio codec at 128kbps. Slightly OT know Steve, but I tend to use DAB basically as a higher quality alternative to AM Radio. However I was reading in this month's New Scientist about a system called DRM Who wrote the article? which could be due to take off during the next year or two, what's your own opinion on it, you think that it will rival or maybe even supersede DAB? http://www.drm.org/system/technicalaspect.php DRM is a very good system, but it was designed to be used at frequencies below 30 MHz, and such low frequency signals have strange propagation characteristics. But DRM is now being extended to work at frequencies up to 120 MHz, although some broadcasters like the BBC are employing delaying tactics to make sure that the time it takes DRM to be extended is as long as possible to allow DAB a free run without any competing systems. The fact of the matter is that DAB technology is now 15 years old, whereas DRM's technology is all modern, so the broadcasters backing DAB don't want to allow countries to adopt DRM ahead of DAB, so they're delaying it. Radioscape who produce DAB modules have developed a DAB+DRM module and it's likely that we'll see radios with DRM in the UK soon. But it'll be the current version of DRM, not the extended version, so the only stations it'll be able to receive are those that transmit at frequencies below 30 MHz. Also, the extension of DRM will bring wider channels (100kHz), so the bit rates can be increased, whereas at the moment the maximum channel width is only 20kHz, so the bit rates will be low and the audio quality will be poor, but better than MW. Basically, the BBC have decided that Europe should follow the UK and adopt DAB. The other European public service broadcasters bizarrely look to the BBC for a lead, and the BBC is backing DAB, so most of the other European public service broadcaster lemmings are following them. The fact that DAB is about as outdated a digital technology as it is possible to imagine and that modern systems like DVB-H and DRM wipe the floor with DAB seems to be irrelevant to them. The European Broadcasting Union (EBU) is very powerful as well, and its technical department has got a load of ex-BBC men in it, and it is headed by the person that was in charge of BBC R&D at the time that the BBC rolled out their DAB transmitter network. It's all about egos at the end of the day; the people that designed DAB don't want to admit that they designed a ****e system and they're happy to provide low audio quality to all of their listeners rather than face reality. Anyway, back to DRM: they'll probably manage to delay the extension of it for about 5 years by which time most people in the UK will probably be listening to low audio quality via DAB. Just to give you an indication of how outdated and inefficient DAB is and how efficient DRM is, the amount of spectrum required for a reasonable audio quality station (160kbps) on DAB is 250kHz, whereas on DRM is it only 25kHz (after DRM has been extended). So, if you've got 1 MHz of spectrum then you can fit 4 reasonable quality stations on DAB or 40 reasonable quality stations on DRM. DRM is also far cheaper for broadcasters to transmit. So, it's no wonder that they want to delay DRM as long as possible, because it seriously puts DAB in its place, i.e. in the technology museum. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
John Patrick wrote:
DAB and DRM will be complementary systems. Actually, if a country chooses to use DRM after it's been extended then they wouldn't need to use the 15-year-old DAB system at all. Set designers are already looking at sets combining the two systems. So it won't be a question of one over the other the DRM system using what is now called SW, LW, & MW will be capable of longer distance reception. DRM is being extended to work at frequencies up to 120 MHz, and once it does it'll be able to provide high audio quality. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... Who wrote the article? DRM is a very good system, but it was designed to be used at frequencies below 30 MHz, and such low frequency signals have strange propagation characteristics. But DRM is now being extended to work at frequencies up to 120 MHz, although some broadcasters like the BBC are employing delaying tactics to make sure that the time it takes DRM to be extended is as long as possible to allow DAB a free run without any competing systems. The fact of the matter is that DAB technology is now 15 years old, whereas DRM's technology is all modern, so the broadcasters backing DAB don't want to allow countries to adopt DRM ahead of DAB, so they're delaying it. Radioscape who produce DAB modules have developed a DAB+DRM module and it's likely that we'll see radios with DRM in the UK soon. But it'll be the current version of DRM, not the extended version, so the only stations it'll be able to receive are those that transmit at frequencies below 30 MHz. Also, the extension of DRM will bring wider channels (100kHz), so the bit rates can be increased, whereas at the moment the maximum channel width is only 20kHz, so the bit rates will be low and the audio quality will be poor, but better than MW. Basically, the BBC have decided that Europe should follow the UK and adopt DAB. The other European public service broadcasters bizarrely look to the BBC for a lead, and the BBC is backing DAB, so most of the other European public service broadcaster lemmings are following them. The fact that DAB is about as outdated a digital technology as it is possible to imagine and that modern systems like DVB-H and DRM wipe the floor with DAB seems to be irrelevant to them. The European Broadcasting Union (EBU) is very powerful as well, and its technical department has got a load of ex-BBC men in it, and it is headed by the person that was in charge of BBC R&D at the time that the BBC rolled out their DAB transmitter network. It's all about egos at the end of the day; the people that designed DAB don't want to admit that they designed a ****e system and they're happy to provide low audio quality to all of their listeners rather than face reality. Anyway, back to DRM: they'll probably manage to delay the extension of it for about 5 years by which time most people in the UK will probably be listening to low audio quality via DAB. Just to give you an indication of how outdated and inefficient DAB is and how efficient DRM is, the amount of spectrum required for a reasonable audio quality station (160kbps) on DAB is 250kHz, whereas on DRM is it only 25kHz (after DRM has been extended). So, if you've got 1 MHz of spectrum then you can fit 4 reasonable quality stations on DAB or 40 reasonable quality stations on DRM. DRM is also far cheaper for broadcasters to transmit. So, it's no wonder that they want to delay DRM as long as possible, because it seriously puts DAB in its place, i.e. in the technology museum. IIRC the author was Barry Fox :0) Thanks for the detailed explanation Steve, I'm now a little more up to speed about what's going on, as I have to admit that my only awareness of DRM was that I vaguely knew that there was some kind of digital rejuvenation on the cards for the AM radio spectrum. It seems a shame that DRM won't be taking off in the UK sooner rather than later, especially if the signal is more robust than DAB and offers better quality, plus the choice of many more stations. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
I wonder why, it's not like their most popular shows are not already on p2p. There must be tens of thousands of people outside the UK already watching Extras, available on popular bit torrent sites a few hours after the BBC2 airing. Yeah, but that's not supposed to happen. But it does, and will, happen. :-) I heard that the iMP content will also be made available for a fee to those outside the UK, is it confirmed or just a rumour? And then there's the issue over radio playing copyrighted music, so you just imagine what the record industry would say if the shows had no protection. Yeah, I guess that the BBC will just have to implement it even if they would prefer not to. But all those players combined probably don't even have as much market (and mind-) share as the iPods. I once read that smaller MP3 players were the best selling, and iPods are just far more famous. In any case, Apple has also been making flash players for a while, and apparently they've been fairly successful. |
wowfabgroovy wrote:
Somehow I can't see Apple ditching their DRM and Quicktime platform and choose instead their main competitors' proprietary systems. if they're already trialing with wma they're not going to switch to something else just for a few freaks with non-standard computers. Such idiotic gibberish doesn't even deserve a serious reply. Much like everything else you write, actually... |
wowfabgroovy wrote:
(Giuseppe) went: wowfabgroovy wrote: Somehow I can't see Apple ditching their DRM and Quicktime platform and choose instead their main competitors' proprietary systems. if they're already trialing with wma they're not going to switch to something else just for a few freaks with non-standard computers. Such idiotic gibberish doesn't even deserve a serious reply. Much like everything else you write, actually... if they were going to use something else they would have launched using something else. if you think otherwise you're deluding yourself. This is not a launch; it is a trial. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
Giuseppe wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: I wonder why, it's not like their most popular shows are not already on p2p. There must be tens of thousands of people outside the UK already watching Extras, available on popular bit torrent sites a few hours after the BBC2 airing. Yeah, but that's not supposed to happen. But it does, and will, happen. :-) Yes, but it's still not meant to happen. I heard that the iMP content will also be made available for a fee to those outside the UK, is it confirmed or just a rumour? It was something the Director of New Media, Ashley Highfield, said in a speech this summer. And then there's the issue over radio playing copyrighted music, so you just imagine what the record industry would say if the shows had no protection. Yeah, I guess that the BBC will just have to implement it even if they would prefer not to. Yep, it's all to keep the copyright holders happy. But all those players combined probably don't even have as much market (and mind-) share as the iPods. I once read that smaller MP3 players were the best selling, and iPods are just far more famous. In any case, Apple has also been making flash players for a while, and apparently they've been fairly successful. It was after the iPod Shuffle came out that I read that more people buy small capacity than large capacity MP3 players. When you think about it it's not surprising because of the massive price difference. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
"DAB sounds worse than FM" schreef in bericht ... It was after the iPod Shuffle came out that I read that more people buy small capacity than large capacity MP3 players. When you think about it it's not surprising because of the massive price difference. Yes, the larger capacity ones have discs, the smaller ones are solid state. Just like those USB keys, the 128/256MB. ones are really cheap. gr, hwh |
Ivan wrote:
IIRC the author was Barry Fox :0) Oh, him... I'm not his biggest fan ever. Thanks for the detailed explanation Steve, I'm now a little more up to speed about what's going on, as I have to admit that my only awareness of DRM was that I vaguely knew that there was some kind of digital rejuvenation on the cards for the AM radio spectrum. It seems a shame that DRM won't be taking off in the UK sooner rather than later, especially if the signal is more robust than DAB and offers better quality, plus the choice of many more stations. We'll likely see radios with DAB+DRM, but they'll only be able to receive signals below 30 MHz. It'll be interesting to see whether in a few years' time once DRM has been extended that this rules out the UK from receiving the higher frequency DRM channels thus consigning the UK to an absolutely appalling overall digital radio system. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
DAB sounds worse than FM a écrit :
We'll likely see radios with DAB+DRM, but they'll only be able to receive signals below 30 MHz. It'll be interesting to see whether in a few years' time once DRM has been extended that this rules out the UK from receiving the higher frequency DRM channels thus consigning the UK to an absolutely appalling overall digital radio system. But we can't digitalize FM band without stop some FM radio. And it need some years before DRM+ is ready. So because, UK choice DAB, it will be the transition system before come back digital FM band. |
Pierre PANTALÉON wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM a écrit : We'll likely see radios with DAB+DRM, but they'll only be able to receive signals below 30 MHz. It'll be interesting to see whether in a few years' time once DRM has been extended that this rules out the UK from receiving the higher frequency DRM channels thus consigning the UK to an absolutely appalling overall digital radio system. But we can't digitalize FM band without stop some FM radio. Stop FM radio? How dare you say that! ;-) And it need some years before DRM+ is ready. DRM+ could be ready within 18 months if they wanted to make it ready. What do they need to do exactly? They have to decide on possible changes to an already designed system, then simulate those changes, then validate those changes. It's not like they're designing a system from nothing. So because, UK choice DAB, it will be the transition system before come back digital FM band. They'd better sort the audio quality out before they even consider switching FM off. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... Pierre PANTALÉON wrote: DAB sounds worse than FM a écrit : We'll likely see radios with DAB+DRM, but they'll only be able to receive signals below 30 MHz. It'll be interesting to see whether in a few years' time once DRM has been extended that this rules out the UK from receiving the higher frequency DRM channels thus consigning the UK to an absolutely appalling overall digital radio system. But we can't digitalize FM band without stop some FM radio. Stop FM radio? How dare you say that! ;-) And it need some years before DRM+ is ready. DRM+ could be ready within 18 months if they wanted to make it ready. What do they need to do exactly? They have to decide on possible changes to an already designed system, then simulate those changes, then validate those changes. It's not like they're designing a system from nothing. True, browsing around on the net I've read that.. "Texas instruments can supply the RS500, which supplies all the necessary hardware and software to design and build receivers able to support any combination of DRM, DAB, FM-RDS and AM, cutting down significantly on the development time and resources needed from the manufacturer". "Pricing for both the DRM300 and DRM350 chips starts at $18 in sample quantities of 1000 or less and are expected to be available in Q3 2005." Then let the roll-out commence! So because, UK choice DAB, it will be the transition system before come back digital FM band. They'd better sort the audio quality out before they even consider switching FM off. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
Ivan wrote:
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... Pierre PANTALÉON wrote: DAB sounds worse than FM a écrit : We'll likely see radios with DAB+DRM, but they'll only be able to receive signals below 30 MHz. It'll be interesting to see whether in a few years' time once DRM has been extended that this rules out the UK from receiving the higher frequency DRM channels thus consigning the UK to an absolutely appalling overall digital radio system. But we can't digitalize FM band without stop some FM radio. Stop FM radio? How dare you say that! ;-) And it need some years before DRM+ is ready. DRM+ could be ready within 18 months if they wanted to make it ready. What do they need to do exactly? They have to decide on possible changes to an already designed system, then simulate those changes, then validate those changes. It's not like they're designing a system from nothing. True, browsing around on the net I've read that.. "Texas instruments can supply the RS500, which supplies all the necessary hardware and software to design and build receivers able to support any combination of DRM, DAB, FM-RDS and AM, cutting down significantly on the development time and resources needed from the manufacturer". "Pricing for both the DRM300 and DRM350 chips starts at $18 in sample quantities of 1000 or less and are expected to be available in Q3 2005." Then let the roll-out commence! Yes, but this is still the 30 MHz version of DRM, not the version that'll be able to handle 120 MHz and below. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
DAB sounds worse than FM a écrit :
Stop FM radio? How dare you say that! ;-) Because, we need FM spectrum for DRM+ ! :) It's true, it exist iBOC ;) DRM+ could be ready within 18 months if they wanted to make it ready. What do they need to do exactly? They have to decide on possible changes to an already designed system, then simulate those changes, then validate those changes. It's not like they're designing a system from nothing. Short time to develop DRM+, but to improve new changes in real life it's another thing. So because, UK choice DAB, it will be the transition system before come back digital FM band. They'd better sort the audio quality out before they even consider switching FM off. perhaps, but simulcast seems impossible, we need spectrum with transition system. |
Pierre PANTALÉON wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM a écrit : Stop FM radio? How dare you say that! ;-) Because, we need FM spectrum for DRM+ ! :) It's true, it exist iBOC ;) DRM is not IBOC. DRM+ could be ready within 18 months if they wanted to make it ready. What do they need to do exactly? They have to decide on possible changes to an already designed system, then simulate those changes, then validate those changes. It's not like they're designing a system from nothing. Short time to develop DRM+, but to improve new changes in real life it's another thing. DRM has a completed specification. The audio codec won't change. The fact it uses OFDM and QPSK, 16-QAM and 64-QAM won't change. The vast majority of the spec won't change, and it's predominantly just being extended and the extensions required to work at higher frequencies are not difficult to define, because they're simple transmission parameters that are easily arrived at from experience of DAB, DVB-T/H etc. 3 years is too long for these changes, let alone 5 years. Anyway, someone from teh DRM consortium has admitted that it's DAB broadcasters that are employing delaying tactics so that DRM doesn't compete with DAB. Pathetic. So because, UK choice DAB, it will be the transition system before come back digital FM band. They'd better sort the audio quality out before they even consider switching FM off. perhaps, but simulcast seems impossible, we need spectrum with transition system. Given the BBC's and Ofcom's love of farcical digital radio implementation then they'll probably replace FM in-band. Now that would be utterly farcical, but I wouldn't put it past the freaks. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
DRM has a completed specification. The audio codec won't change. The fact it uses OFDM and QPSK, 16-QAM and 64-QAM won't change. The vast majority of the spec won't change, and it's predominantly just being extended and the extensions required to work at higher frequencies are not difficult to define, because they're simple transmission parameters that are easily arrived at from experience of DAB, DVB-T/H etc. 3 years is too long for these changes, let alone 5 years. Anyway, someone from teh DRM consortium has admitted that it's DAB broadcasters that are employing delaying tactics so that DRM doesn't compete with DAB. Pathetic. Does that apply to the BBC World Service which has nothing to benefit from DAB ? Remember the BBC W/S is paid for by the F&CO and not the licence fee and I would have thought the F&CO would have been very positive about DRM. J |
John wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: DRM has a completed specification. The audio codec won't change. The fact it uses OFDM and QPSK, 16-QAM and 64-QAM won't change. The vast majority of the spec won't change, and it's predominantly just being extended and the extensions required to work at higher frequencies are not difficult to define, because they're simple transmission parameters that are easily arrived at from experience of DAB, DVB-T/H etc. 3 years is too long for these changes, let alone 5 years. Anyway, someone from teh DRM consortium has admitted that it's DAB broadcasters that are employing delaying tactics so that DRM doesn't compete with DAB. Pathetic. Does that apply to the BBC World Service which has nothing to benefit from DAB ? Remember the BBC W/S is paid for by the F&CO and not the licence fee and I would have thought the F&CO would have been very positive about DRM. The companies that want to delay DRM are the ones that support DAB and don't want any competition for DAB. So, from the list of DRM members: http://www.drm.org/members/members.php the organisations that are in the DRM consortium, or are associate members, that support DAB a BBC IRT EBU (full of ex-BBC people) -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
DRM has a completed specification. The audio codec won't change. The fact it uses OFDM and QPSK, 16-QAM and 64-QAM won't change. The vast majority of the spec won't change, and it's predominantly just being extended and the extensions required to work at higher frequencies are not difficult to define, because they're simple transmission parameters that are easily arrived at from experience of DAB, DVB-T/H etc. 3 years is too long for these changes, let alone 5 years. Anyway, someone from teh DRM consortium has admitted that it's DAB broadcasters that are employing delaying tactics so that DRM doesn't compete with DAB. Pathetic. Does that apply to the BBC World Service which has nothing to benefit from DAB ? Remember the BBC W/S is paid for by the F&CO and not the licence fee and I would have thought the F&CO would have been very positive about DRM. The companies that want to delay DRM are the ones that support DAB and don't want any competition for DAB. So, from the list of DRM members: http://www.drm.org/members/members.php the organisations that are in the DRM consortium, or are associate members, that support DAB a BBC IRT EBU (full of ex-BBC people) Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim that these companies which are members of the DRM consortium have made the decision to delay DRM in favour of DAB. Possibly not as I don't see how Neutel, VT Communications any many other companies in that list can benefit from such a decision. Especially if they don't sell or operate DAB equipment. J |
John wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: DRM has a completed specification. The audio codec won't change. The fact it uses OFDM and QPSK, 16-QAM and 64-QAM won't change. The vast majority of the spec won't change, and it's predominantly just being extended and the extensions required to work at higher frequencies are not difficult to define, because they're simple transmission parameters that are easily arrived at from experience of DAB, DVB-T/H etc. 3 years is too long for these changes, let alone 5 years. Anyway, someone from teh DRM consortium has admitted that it's DAB broadcasters that are employing delaying tactics so that DRM doesn't compete with DAB. Pathetic. Does that apply to the BBC World Service which has nothing to benefit from DAB ? Remember the BBC W/S is paid for by the F&CO and not the licence fee and I would have thought the F&CO would have been very positive about DRM. The companies that want to delay DRM are the ones that support DAB and don't want any competition for DAB. So, from the list of DRM members: http://www.drm.org/members/members.php the organisations that are in the DRM consortium, or are associate members, that support DAB a BBC IRT EBU (full of ex-BBC people) Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim that these companies which are members of the DRM consortium have made the decision to delay DRM in favour of DAB. I've seen someone (whom I trust not to lie) say that they spoke to someone in the DRM consortium who told them that some members that support DAB wanted to delay DRM to allow DAB to "have a clear run". DAB needs all the help it can get, because all the technology that the DAB system comprises of is literally 15-years-old. So new competing systems such as DRM, that wipe the floor with DAB are bound to be discouraged by DAB proponents. Pathetic. Possibly not as I don't see how Neutel, VT Communications any many other companies in that list can benefit from such a decision. Especially if they don't sell or operate DAB equipment. Where did I say that everybody in that list is in favour of delaying DRM? I didn't, and some, such as the names you mention, will obviously be in favour of DRM being extended ASAP. But if you've got powerful organisations such as the BBC, IRT and the EBU wanting DRM to be delayed as long as possible then what can they do about it? -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
Bruce Stewart wrote:
What about .OGG Vorbis? It's open, available on different platforms and appears to sound good at that rate. They trialled the audio and I think politics killed it off. The server they were talking about at www.fave.org.uk can stream Ogg. The BBC are developing a video codec called Dirac and haven't done much visible with Ogg Theora (sometimes .ogm), but presumably one Ogg container is much like another. Then again, the failure to use open multiplatform systems on digital satellite (for EPG or text service, for a start) suggests they don't care strongly for open standards. |
John wrote:
Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim that these companies which are members of the DRM consortium have made the decision to delay DRM in favour of DAB. Only what I was told directly by "someone" senior at the BBC. It wouldn't be fair to tell you who it was. He wouldn't have known my personal "vested" interest because I was there in a professional capacity for a completely different reason. So he spoke very freely. It could be this Steve is passing on, but he probably has other sources. It's not rocket science - the extended DRM spec to bury DAB could be out next year, but is likely to be held back until 2008-2010. It didn't take that long to put the original DRM spec together from scratch! Cheers, David. |
U n d e r a c h i e v e r wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: Yes, but one drawback of AAC is that it's only the iPod that supports it out of the MP3 players. Or at least I can't think of any other MP3 players that support AAC. Unfortunately, a lot of MP3 players do support WMA. There are a handful that do support AAC; there are even some phones that support it. Quite a lot of mobile phones support AAC. A lot of, if not most, new Nokia phones seem to support AAC, and Nokia are the market leaders with about 35-40% of sales. The problem with WMA/Ogg/AAC is that two out of three are supported on 90% of portable players, but no one format other than MP3 has 90% support. Yeah, that's the problem, really. Of the "better than MP3" catagory, AAC might have more "devices in pockets" support thanks to the overwhelming popularity of iPods. Yeah, but WMA is supported by a wide range of MP3 players. It is really too much to ask for them to provide files in both WMA and AAC (or a different combination)? WMA rules out iPods, whereas AAC rules out a lot of the other MP3 players. MP3 player owners have had to encode their files to one standard or another, so they should be tech savvy enough to make a simple choice when setting the iMP up on their PC so that they can then only access WMA or AAC. If they make the wrong decision they could always change it afterwards. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
wrote:
John wrote: Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim that these companies which are members of the DRM consortium have made the decision to delay DRM in favour of DAB. Only what I was told directly by "someone" senior at the BBC. It wouldn't be fair to tell you who it was. He wouldn't have known my personal "vested" interest because I was there in a professional capacity for a completely different reason. So he spoke very freely. It could be this Steve is passing on, but he probably has other sources. No, I'd seen you mention it elsewhere. :-) It's not rocket science - the extended DRM spec to bury DAB could be out next year, but is likely to be held back until 2008-2010. It didn't take that long to put the original DRM spec together from scratch! Absobloodylutely! It's an absolute disgrace. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
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