"Prometheus" wrote...
DAB sounds worse than FM writes

Freeview receivers used for radio require a TV licence, amazingly.

Amazingly wrong! If you have neither a device to display nor to record
the TV programmes (video information) then it is only a (digital)
radio receiver and no licence is required, see
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp "Do I need a
licence?" - "If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record
TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC
with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence. You are required by
law to have one", sound only programmes are not TV programmes.

Wrong. TVL regards any channel receivable over Freeview to be a TV
channel.

Matti

In article , Matti Lamprhey
writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
DAB sounds worse than FM writes

Freeview receivers used for radio require a TV licence, amazingly.

Amazingly wrong! If you have neither a device to display nor to record
the TV programmes (video information) then it is only a (digital)
radio receiver and no licence is required, see
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp "Do I need a
licence?" - "If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record
TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC
with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence. You are required by
law to have one", sound only programmes are not TV programmes.

Wrong. TVL regards any channel receivable over Freeview to be a TV
channel.

Astoundingly wrong.

--
Ian G8ILZ

"Prometheus" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
DAB sounds worse than FM writes

Freeview receivers used for radio require a TV licence, amazingly.

Amazingly wrong! If you have neither a device to display nor to
record the TV programmes (video information) then it is only a
(digital) radio receiver and no licence is required, see
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp "Do I need a
licence?" - "If you use a TV or any other device to receive or
record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD
recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence.
You are required by law to have one", sound only programmes
are not TV programmes.

Wrong. TVL regards any channel receivable over Freeview to be a TV
channel.

Astoundingly wrong.

This is what you get when you e-mail the TVL folk about Freeview
receivers:

# Under the Communications Act 2003, a television licence is required
# if a person installs or uses a television receiver to receive or
# record television programme services.

# A Freeview box is a television receiver and receives television
# programme signals in Colour. The installation and use of a Freeview
# box therefore needs to be covered by a Colour television licence,
# even when the box is used in conjunction with a black and white
# television set or audio equipment.

If you'd like to try to convince them otherwise, many will urge you on
but with no expectation of success.

Matti

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...

Glad to see lots of correct English spellings of "licence" so far on
this thread. Keep it up, people!

Wait till they start talking about 'licensing'.

--
Max Demian

In article , Matti Lamprhey
writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
DAB sounds worse than FM writes

Freeview receivers used for radio require a TV licence, amazingly.

Amazingly wrong! If you have neither a device to display nor to
record the TV programmes (video information) then it is only a
(digital) radio receiver and no licence is required, see
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp "Do I need a
licence?" - "If you use a TV or any other device to receive or
record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD
recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence.
You are required by law to have one", sound only programmes
are not TV programmes.

Wrong. TVL regards any channel receivable over Freeview to be a TV
channel.

Astoundingly wrong.

This is what you get when you e-mail the TVL folk about Freeview
receivers:

# Under the Communications Act 2003, a television licence is required
# if a person installs or uses a television receiver to receive or
# record television programme services.

# A Freeview box is a television receiver and receives television
# programme signals in Colour.

A piece of wire receives colour television signals.

The installation and use of a Freeview
# box therefore needs to be covered by a Colour television licence,
# even when the box is used in conjunction with a black and white
# television set or audio equipment.

Nonsense, all television receivers receive the colour radio signal, as
does any piece of wire with a rectifying detector attached to it.

If you'd like to try to convince them otherwise, many will urge you on
but with no expectation of success.

Let them prove in court that I am receiving (colour) television pictures
to view or record as required by he licensing acts; the obligation is on
them to prove an offence not on me to prove innocence.

--
Ian G8ILZ

Prometheus wrote:
In article , DAB sounds
worse than FM writes


Freeview receivers used for radio require a TV licence, amazingly.

Amazingly wrong!


No, it's right, amazingly.

Don't get me wrong, I am in complete agreement with you that you should
not require a TV licence to listen to radio via Freeview, but there was
a long thread on uk.tech.digital-tv a few months ago and the matter was
settled that you do need a TV licence if you use a Freeview box for
whatever service. I rang up the TV licensing people and the person I
spoke to spoke to the legal department and he confirmed that this is so.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm

"Prometheus" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
DAB sounds worse than FM writes

Freeview receivers used for radio require a TV licence,
amazingly.

Amazingly wrong! If you have neither a device to display nor to
record the TV programmes (video information) then it is only a
(digital) radio receiver and no licence is required, see
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp "Do I need a
licence?" - "If you use a TV or any other device to receive or
record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD
recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence.
You are required by law to have one", sound only programmes
are not TV programmes.

Wrong. TVL regards any channel receivable over Freeview to be a
TV channel.

Astoundingly wrong.

This is what you get when you e-mail the TVL folk about Freeview
receivers:

# Under the Communications Act 2003, a television licence is
# required if a person installs or uses a television receiver to
# receive or record television programme services.

# A Freeview box is a television receiver and receives television
# programme signals in Colour.

A piece of wire receives colour television signals.

# The installation and use of a Freeview box therefore needs to be
# covered by a Colour television licence, even when the box is used
# in conjunction with a black and white television set or audio
# equipment.

Nonsense, all television receivers receive the colour radio signal, as
does any piece of wire with a rectifying detector attached to it.

If you'd like to try to convince them otherwise, many will urge you
on but with no expectation of success.

Let them prove in court that I am receiving (colour) television
pictures to view or record as required by he licensing acts; the
obligation is on them to prove an offence not on me to prove
innocence.

Look, are you proposing to use a Freeview box without a licence in order
to receive the audio channels only? If so, then please let us know what
happens when the TVL folk find out. If not, then stop wasting our time
with further vacuous and ill-informed theorising.

Matti

In article , Matti Lamprhey
writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey writes
"Prometheus" wrote...
DAB sounds worse than FM writes

Freeview receivers used for radio require a TV licence,
amazingly.

Amazingly wrong! If you have neither a device to display nor to
record the TV programmes (video information) then it is only a
(digital) radio receiver and no licence is required, see
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp "Do I need a
licence?" - "If you use a TV or any other device to receive or
record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD
recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence.
You are required by law to have one", sound only programmes
are not TV programmes.

Wrong. TVL regards any channel receivable over Freeview to be a
TV channel.

Astoundingly wrong.

This is what you get when you e-mail the TVL folk about Freeview
receivers:

# Under the Communications Act 2003, a television licence is
# required if a person installs or uses a television receiver to
# receive or record television programme services.

# A Freeview box is a television receiver and receives television
# programme signals in Colour.

A piece of wire receives colour television signals.

# The installation and use of a Freeview box therefore needs to be
# covered by a Colour television licence, even when the box is used
# in conjunction with a black and white television set or audio
# equipment.

Nonsense, all television receivers receive the colour radio signal, as
does any piece of wire with a rectifying detector attached to it.

If you'd like to try to convince them otherwise, many will urge you
on but with no expectation of success.

Let them prove in court that I am receiving (colour) television
pictures to view or record as required by he licensing acts; the
obligation is on them to prove an offence not on me to prove
innocence.

Look, are you proposing to use a Freeview box without a licence in order
to receive the audio channels only? If so, then please let us know what
happens when the TVL folk find out. If not, then stop wasting our time
with further vacuous and ill-informed theorising.

Would you please state which section of the Communications Act 2003 (
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030021.htm ) designates a
"Freeview" (or any STB) box as a "colour television receiver"? S.363 (
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30021--l.htm#363 ) does not. You
might try section 367(2) "... ‘television set’ means any apparatus
of a description specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State
setting out the descriptions of apparatus that are to be television sets
for the purposes of this Part." The only definition I have found is that
quoted on http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp
"[apparatus] ... to receive or record TV programmes", which is taken
from Statutory Instrument 1991 No. 436 (
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1991/Uksi_19910436_en_1.htm ) s.2 'The
following class or description of television receiving apparatus is
hereby specified for the purposes of the definition of "television
receiver" in the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949[5], namely such apparatus
installed or used for the purpose of receiving television programme
services, as defined by section 2(4) of the Broadcasting Act 1990,
whether or not the apparatus is installed or used for other purposes'.
You might argue that because a Freeview box CAN receive colour
television it requires a colour TV licence but TVL state (
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/gethelp/faqs.jsp#link1 ) you do not need a
licence if you only use a TV to watch videos/DVDs/as a monitor for a
games console, the argument fails: it is not "installed or used for the
purpose of receiving television programme services". Since a radio
programme is not a television programme service I am not required to
obtain a licence to listen to it.

Your e-mail from the TVL folk about Freeview receivers states one fact
(that a licence is required for a TV receiver as stated in CA2003) and
then makes an unsubstantiated assertion (not stated in any Act) in the
hope you will think it is also a fact and hand them some money.

Do you think that my reading the published legislation is "vacuous and
ill-informed theorising"?

Have you read the published legislation?

I am confident that with your extensive knowledge you will be able to
cite the relevant Statutory Instrument or Act of Parliament designating
a "Freeview" (DTT, DVB-T, etc. since an Act is unlikely to limit its
range to a specific brand name which could exempt its self by changing
its name) STB as being a colour television receiver; so please will you
cite it?
--
Ian G8ILZ

On 07 Aug 2005, Prometheus wrote

-snip quotes from relevant acts, and interpretation of same-

Your e-mail from the TVL folk about Freeview receivers states one
fact (that a licence is required for a TV receiver as stated in
CA2003) and then makes an unsubstantiated assertion (not stated in
any Act) in the hope you will think it is also a fact and hand
them some money.

Do you think that my reading the published legislation is "vacuous
and ill-informed theorising"?

Until the implementation of the act is tested in court, it's simply
your reading and interpretation of the relevant legislation against
TVL's reading and interpretation of exactly the same legislation.

As you rightly point out, TVL's assertion is "unsubstantiated": so is
your statement -- -which is based on your reading of the act rather
than on case law. Until case law exists, it's all theorising, vacuous
or otherwise.

--
Cheers,
Harvey

In article , [email protected]
cook.RfErMeOeVsEeCrAvPeS.co.uk says...

In theory. Come to the rougher bits of London or Birmingham and you
will get fzzz tzzz kssskz from pirates ruining your reception.

In practice in most places, it is a shame about London or Birminham, but
then these pirates should be got rid off.