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On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:52:21 -0400, Dave C. wrote:
Does anybody know a way to roughly compare the resolution of 16mm film to HDTV? I am very curious. Film is (sort of) analog, so the resolution is (almost) infinite. Stop right there. This is incredibly wrong. Analog has limited resolution, just like digital. EVERYTHING physical has limited resolution. Infinite resolution is equivalent to perpetual motion. Both film and video use discrete samples over time, with rather poor sample rates at that. Spatial resolution of film is limited by grain size and imprecise positioning of the film in the camera and projector. Analog video is limited by the number of scan lines and the bandwidth of the signal. Digital video has obvious limits in the number of pixels, plus compression artifacts. And, of course, the resolution of the optical systems can be a problem, regardless of how the image is stored. Color resolution is limited in all systems, because none of them match the spectral characteristics of the human eye. Each technology has advantages and disadvantages in how the respond to color. The dynamic range of the light intensity is limited in all systems, on both the recording and playback side. You always lose information on both the dark end and the white end. With film, that's understood well enough that it's used as an intentional effect. With video, it's usually unintentional ;-) Any analog system has a maximum value, and a minimum value. Everyone understands that there is a maximum. Many people overlook the minimum. It has a technical name: noise. The dynamic range has a technical name, too: signal to noise ratio. You can't resolve anything smaller than the noise level, or greater than the maximum value. Analog, digital, it doesn't matter: there is always a limit to the resolution. |
"Pat" wrote in message news:[email protected] Dave C. wrote: For a little over a thousand bucks (cheap!, relatively speaking), a properly adjusted home theater setup will kick the CRAP out of any movie theaters' image quality AND sound quality. I'm hardly a home theater expert, but $1,000 wouldn't get you anywhere near the quality of most movie theaters. Even if you're not factoring in the TV/projector, you'd have to spend a lot more than that to have a real high-end system. This was a real bad attempt at trolling. You probably can't buy a lens cap for a theater sized projector for $1000 bucks. |
Why? Because despite the major cities of this country being dominated
by a few big chains (AMC, Sony-Lowes, Regal, ect), most people go to the show at a theatre that is either locally owned, or part of a small, regional chain. These local owners, raked over the coals by the studios as to their box office split, and charging for popcorn at the limit of the locals ability to pay, can't afford to switch over to digital projection. A decently maintained 35mm projector can easily last 30, 40, or even 50 years. A drive-in I used to frequent in college (around 1998) was still using it's original projectors and lamp houses from the 1950's. It's the only time I've been priviledged to watch a twin-changeover, carbon-arc booth in operation. The owner said finding carbon rods was becoming an issue, but the projectors still worked fine. Now, imagine being asked to replace perfectly good projectors with this new technology, at maybe $50,000 or more per screen, and then being told to trust that they would last as long as your trusty 35mm set up. Imagine you're a regional chain with 50 to 100 screens. Or you own a small town twin, and pull only $50k of profit out of it each year. 2 or 3 years profit, all to save the studios money. That's big bucks. The DLP set ups in use today, are computer and hard drive driven. They might not be compatible with the next "new thing" 20 years down the road. Maybe not even 10. Computer technology always abandons its past. That all being said, as HD displays become increasingly affordable, and if a HD disc format can get off the ground, traditional movie theatres might be in trouble. If 50-60 inch screens are available to most people at an affordable price, plunking down $40-$50 to take a family to the show will look less palatable then say a $4-$5 blockbuster night with microwave popcorn. Just my 2 cents. As a former 35mm projectionist, I'll miss them when they're gone. I took a lot of pride in everything being "just right." I loved the sound of the crowd on opening night. I loved everything about it. I just wish it paid worth a damn. I'd be back in the first booth that would have me. -beaumon |
In article "Charles Tomaras" writes:
I think you are sorely mistaken if you think that a high end digital projector is maintenance free. They need to be focused, the sources of light need to be maintained and kept up to spec. etc etc. They need to be focused, ONCE. They stay focused. Anyone here complaining about their DLP at home needing regular re-focusing? Now, the same should be true of film, one would think, but it doesn't seem so. The maintenance is vastly lower. One doesn't need to keep dust and crud out of the film gate. There is no wear that causes frames to not register the same -- so the picture stays stable in the same spot on the screen. Problem is that the popcorn machine in most movie theaters gets more maintenance than the projectors....film or digital. It probably brings in more profit. I don't think that's gonna change and I don't imagine that a spectacular new digital projector is gonna look spectacular or new in a few months or a few years. Well, folks with DLP sets at home are reporting them keeping their image quality just fine with no adjustments or maintenance, and those have the added maintenance issue of a spinning color wheel (theater units have three digital micromirror devices). The only reason I suspect some truth in this is that DLP projection will get better and better, as higher resolution devices come out, and devices with higher operating frequencies are produced to produce finer levels of brightness accuracy. I don't expect film to improve in any perceptable way. Alan |
"dwacon" wrote in message news:[email protected] "Dave C." wrote in message eenews.net... For a little over a thousand bucks (cheap!, relatively speaking), a properly adjusted home theater setup will kick the CRAP out of any movie theaters' image quality AND sound quality. I think it is the experience of going out and being part of a social activity... Well, yes. That's why movie theaters will always be in business. What I'm saying is, why can't the movie theaters simply play DVDs. But then, someone else posted that there are movie theaters already downloading movies in some kind of digital format. So I guess it's already in the works, kind f. -Dave |
So what are you calling a large wide screen? Surely not the size of even the smallest movie theater screen in your town. You cannot compare a "home" DLP projector with a 35mm projector in a theater. You are getting very confused with home theater and theater. The two do not meet ANYWHERE. Well the largest screen I've seen used with a DLP projector was 7.5' high by 26' wide (yes, I know that's about a 32:9 aspect ratio, but). It looks pretty damn good at roughly 35' viewing distance. Heck, a screen even half that size is larger than the screens used in some movie theaters I've been to. The last movie I saw in a theater (Cinderella Man, good movie) was projected on a screen roughly 9' tall and 20' wide. I've seen smaller screens than that used in multiplex theaters. -Dave |
We have a theater with a Lucasfilm-licensed Barco DLP system. I believe
that the movies are shipped on removable hard drives. Star Wars Episode III was the best-looking digital display I had ever seen! Cool. Now when the new DVD format is more common, there will be no need to ship the hard drive anymore. -Dave |
"D J" wrote in message ... Currently there are about 300 dcinema theaters in the US. Within 5 years expect most major markets to have several dcinema screens. Also expect most people to flock to these theaters. The big advantage will be no degradation in quiality after the 1000 showing and resolution equivalent to film. "Dave C." wrote in message eenews.net... For a little over a thousand bucks (cheap!, relatively speaking), a properly adjusted home theater setup will kick the CRAP out of any movie theaters' image quality AND sound quality. I'm not saying do away with movie theaters. But why do movie theaters still insist on using film based projectors? Most hit films are released on DVD in widescreen shortly after the film is released in theaters. Heck, some of them are released on DVD simultaneously. So what's the point of using the old dinosaur projectors, exactly? DVD offers the same image quality (better, depending on the display technology) and better sound quality than the scratchy soundtrack that accompanies movies on film. So why not use CRT or even DLP projectors to play DVD movies in ummmmmm, movie theaters? Think of all the money that would be saved in producing and shipping heavy, bulky rolls of film. A DVD can be shipped anywhere in the U.S. in two days for less than three bucks. If time is not critical, it can be shipped for a buck. Some might say we should do away with movie theaters entirely. I think they should just upgrade their video and sound technology to compete on a level playing field with the family rooms of many of their customers. I've heard all the complaints about obnoxious patrons, cell phones, etc. interrupting movies. All of that crap combined doesn't disappoint me as much as to pay 10 bucks for a ticket to see a movie displayed at a low level of brightness (cheap projector bulbs) with a grainy soundtrack. A DLP projector (for example) with a bad bulb STILL looks better than a film-based projector, if the source is up to snuff. (such as any DVD player hooked up with component cables) Sure, DLP can not display true black. And y'know what? . . . your average movie patron will never notice. They will see the really BRIGHT display of a DLP and think (Wow). So black looks gray? Who the frick cares? Meanwhile, the soundtrack will be like 1000% improved if the source is DVD. Even the worst DVD movies produced today offer 5.1 channel dolby digital. I hate dolby digital, but the source (DVD) sounds MUCH better than any movie theater, even at the relatively low bandwidth of DD 5.1 encoding. Some DVD soundtracks go up to 7.1 channel DTS (awesome), which very few movie theaters are even equipped to handle, at the moment. Heck, my own Onkyo/Yamaha/Cambridge Soundworks setup in my living room would blow the woofers off of any movie theater sound system for a seating area of about 150 seats or less. At extreme volume levels, even. And my home theater is hardly top end. Give me a Circuit City credit card and I could make any movie theater sound 1000% better, regardless of seating capacity. If I can do it using consumer grade equipment bought retail, imagine what the pros could come up with, starting with the source of any good quality DVD player and building a (multi-hundred seat) movie theater around it using professional grade electronics. Isn't it about time for the film projector to go the way of the dodo? I think all movies should be released on DVD only. Anybody with me? -Dave I saw Star Wars: The Phantom Menace in a digital (DLP) theater (Paramus NJ) *6 years* ago. Looked good. |
"Pat" wrote in message
news:[email protected] Dave C. wrote: For a little over a thousand bucks (cheap!, relatively speaking), a properly adjusted home theater setup will kick the CRAP out of any movie theaters' image quality AND sound quality. I'm hardly a home theater expert, but $1,000 wouldn't get you anywhere near the quality of most movie theaters. Even if you're not factoring in the TV/projector, you'd have to spend a lot more than that to have a real high-end system. This was a real bad attempt at trolling. Sony's 4K SXRD [LCoS] projector: 10,000 ANSI lumen, claimed contrast: 4000:1, 4096 x 2160 pixels. "...on a 27-foot wide, 16:9 screen, each pixel is only about the size of the letter 'e' in Liberty on a quarter." http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4864 I'll take a wild guess that the replacement lamps cost around $7,000.00. :-) |
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