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What will happen at analogue switch-off?
Thinking about my own TVs at home and lack of STBs on all 5 of them (eek!),
got me to wondering what will happen at the big analogue switch-off... Other than the obvious, what will hapen - specifically to the DVB broadcasts in terms of power and capacity? I heard that the signal power will be increased. I sthat true? Also, will there eventually be new MUXes when the transmitters are not busy transmitting analogue signals too, making space for more channels and the ability to improve bitrates on the existing ones? also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? Bert |
"Bert" MyFirstNameATTyahooDOTTCOMM wrote in message news:[email protected] Thinking about my own TVs at home and lack of STBs on all 5 of them (eek!), got me to wondering what will happen at the big analogue switch-off... Other than the obvious, what will hapen - specifically to the DVB broadcasts in terms of power and capacity? I heard that the signal power will be increased. I sthat true? Also, will there eventually be new MUXes when the transmitters are not busy transmitting analogue signals too, making space for more channels and the ability to improve bitrates on the existing ones? also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? Bert power and capacity? -increased power -similar capacity, depends on 16/64qam handhelds/portables will work if you have adequate signal, probably will be better than now but still not designed for hand-hand use, particularly indoor. DVB-H could be around in the future for handheld. |
"Bert" MyFirstNameATTyahooDOTTCOMM wrote in message news:[email protected] Thinking about my own TVs at home and lack of STBs on all 5 of them (eek!), got me to wondering what will happen at the big analogue switch-off... Other than the obvious, what will hapen - specifically to the DVB broadcasts in terms of power and capacity? I heard that the signal power will be increased. I sthat true? Also, will there eventually be new MUXes when the transmitters are not busy transmitting analogue signals too, making space for more channels and the ability to improve bitrates on the existing ones? also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? Bert There is an ever increasing fusion of technolgies. Mobile phones are now capable of recieving streaming video and they don't have huge DVB type aerials. |
Bert wrote:
........also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? If anything handheld devices will become more prolific, and you'll have DVB-H for txing to mobiles. At the point when analogue UHF Tv eiter dies ar ceases to be significant, there are enhancements that happen to DTT (DVB-T), such as resolved protection ratio issues leading to more power, and more transmitters. Thus you get a much more stable DTT, an the ability (say) for things like portable DVD players to have a DTT reception facility. As for all the old analogue devices, including handheld lcd TVs with teloscolic aeriels? Most of these will be pretty past in by then, and possibly just get chucked. DTT converter boxes will become smaller, much cheaper and even battery powered, so you may even be able to glue one on the back. One issue that has been raised by a regular correspondent on uk.tech.broadcast in the past regards legacy distribution. The question ids this, whern all analogue TV tx has been dispensed with, will there still be UHF channels that are protected for domestic use as the output channels for STBs, VCRs DVDs and the like? |
One issue that has been raised by a regular correspondent on uk.tech.broadcast in the past regards legacy distribution. The question ids this, whern all analogue TV tx has been dispensed with, will there still be UHF channels that are protected for domestic use as the output channels for STBs, VCRs DVDs and the like? If the goverment can't sell them ;o) |
In article , tedjrr writes
Bert wrote: ........also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? If anything handheld devices will become more prolific, and you'll have DVB-H for txing to mobiles. At the point when analogue UHF Tv eiter dies ar ceases to be significant, there are enhancements that happen to DTT (DVB-T), such as resolved protection ratio issues leading to more power, and more transmitters. Thus you get a much more stable DTT, an the ability (say) for things like portable DVD players to have a DTT reception facility. As for all the old analogue devices, including handheld lcd TVs with teloscolic aeriels? Most of these will be pretty past in by then, and possibly just get chucked. DTT converter boxes will become smaller, much cheaper and even battery powered, so you may even be able to glue one on the back. One issue that has been raised by a regular correspondent on uk.tech.broadcast in the past regards legacy distribution. The question ids this, whern all analogue TV tx has been dispensed with, will there still be UHF channels that are protected for domestic use as the output channels for STBs, VCRs DVDs and the like? Presumably the UHF tuners on TV sets will gradually disappear also as they won't be needed any more for receiving broadcasts, so linking devices by UHF will become a thing of the past anyway. -- Tim Mitchell |
Presumably the UHF tuners on TV sets will gradually disappear also as they won't be needed any more for receiving broadcasts, so linking devices by UHF will become a thing of the past anyway. -- Tim Mitchell If the analogue tuners do disappear then distribution systems around houses ie for VCR, SAT, will need something more expensive than now Maybe the system will get replaced with digital, ie digital tuner, the only snag is you'll need a COFDM modulator and upconvertor, which in time will get cheaper. |
"Tim Mitchell" wrote in message
... Presumably the UHF tuners on TV sets will gradually disappear also as they won't be needed any more for receiving broadcasts, so linking devices by UHF will become a thing of the past anyway. What about 'analogue' teletext? How am I going to read the subtitles on my opera laserdiscs if I need to buy a new digital only TV? -- Max Demian |
dylan wrote:
Presumably the UHF tuners on TV sets will gradually disappear also as they won't be needed any more for receiving broadcasts, so linking devices by UHF will become a thing of the past anyway. -- Tim Mitchell If the analogue tuners do disappear then distribution systems around houses ie for VCR, SAT, will need something more expensive than now Maybe the system will get replaced with digital, ie digital tuner, the only snag is you'll need a COFDM modulator and upconvertor, which in time will get cheaper. You could use Wi-Fi for distribution around the house and UWB for close range stuff. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
In article , Max Demian
writes "Tim Mitchell" wrote in message ... Presumably the UHF tuners on TV sets will gradually disappear also as they won't be needed any more for receiving broadcasts, so linking devices by UHF will become a thing of the past anyway. What about 'analogue' teletext? How am I going to read the subtitles on my opera laserdiscs if I need to buy a new digital only TV? Well you don't need a UHF tuner for analogue teletext... it will pass down composite video/scart just fine. You probably don't mean that, you mean that TV's will no longer include teletext decoders, which is possibly true. -- Tim Mitchell |
"dylan" wrote in message ... Presumably the UHF tuners on TV sets will gradually disappear also as they won't be needed any more for receiving broadcasts, so linking devices by UHF will become a thing of the past anyway. -- Tim Mitchell If the analogue tuners do disappear then distribution systems around houses ie for VCR, SAT, will need something more expensive than now Maybe the system will get replaced with digital, ie digital tuner, the only snag is you'll need a COFDM modulator and upconvertor, which in time will get cheaper. It's DVB-S that amateurs seem to be going for. The unit in question is probably this: http://www.von-info.ch/hb9afo/datv_e.htm Cost is about £500. Would that help? Paul |
"Bert" MyFirstNameATTyahooDOTTCOMM wrote in message news:[email protected] Thinking about my own TVs at home and lack of STBs on all 5 of them (eek!), got me to wondering what will happen at the big analogue switch-off... Other than the obvious, what will hapen - specifically to the DVB broadcasts in terms of power and capacity? I heard that the signal power will be increased. I sthat true? Also, will there eventually be new MUXes when the transmitters are not busy transmitting analogue signals too, making space for more channels and the ability to improve bitrates on the existing ones? I suppose we could have the existing 5 channels turned into digital muxes, but then we wouldnot be able to turn up the power on the exesting digital channels. I suspect a comprimise will be found with another 2-3 digital muxes? also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? Bert |
"Tim Mitchell" wrote in message
... In article , Max Demian writes "Tim Mitchell" wrote in message ... Presumably the UHF tuners on TV sets will gradually disappear also as they won't be needed any more for receiving broadcasts, so linking devices by UHF will become a thing of the past anyway. What about 'analogue' teletext? How am I going to read the subtitles on my opera laserdiscs if I need to buy a new digital only TV? Well you don't need a UHF tuner for analogue teletext... it will pass down composite video/scart just fine. You probably don't mean that, you mean that TV's will no longer include teletext decoders, which is possibly true. That's why I said, "What about 'analogue' teletext?" -- Max Demian |
"Bert" MyFirstNameATTyahooDOTTCOMM wrote in message news:[email protected] Thinking about my own TVs at home and lack of STBs on all 5 of them (eek!), got me to wondering what will happen at the big analogue switch-off... Other than the obvious, what will hapen - specifically to the DVB broadcasts in terms of power and capacity? I heard that the signal power will be increased. I sthat true? Also, will there eventually be new MUXes when the transmitters are not busy transmitting analogue signals too, making space for more channels and the ability to improve bitrates on the existing ones? also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? Bert Nobody really knows, so its a waste of time speculating. |
Bert wrote:
Thinking about my own TVs at home and lack of STBs on all 5 of them (eek!), got me to wondering what will happen at the big analogue switch-off... Other than the obvious, what will hapen - specifically to the DVB broadcasts in terms of power and capacity? I heard that the signal power will be increased. I sthat true? Also, will there eventually be new MUXes when the transmitters are not busy transmitting analogue signals too, making space for more channels and the ability to improve bitrates on the existing ones? Power will be increased, so we are told, but another Mux or even two have not been really been promised. so I expect we will still have the same crap we got now, because then they will push more channels into the space and do not have to worry about upseting people, since anyone who wants T.v will have to use digital. also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? this is where there have been no thought and all Crown Castle and the government wants is money, fill there own back pockets and they do not care one bit about the public. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 12/05/2005 Tested on: 14/05/2005 00:35:32 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
John Russell wrote:
There is an ever increasing fusion of technolgies. Mobile phones are now capable of recieving streaming video and they don't have huge DVB type aerials. But it will cost people money. Do you really think this will happen for free? I got a nice portable T.v, which gives a good picture and since it is used up here in the computer room, analogue is more than ample for it, but in a few years time, I will be expected to buy a digital box for a T.V that at that time will be worth less. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 12/05/2005 Tested on: 14/05/2005 00:38:57 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
You could use Wi-Fi for distribution around the house and UWB for close range stuff. Wi-Fi uses high end frequencies, over and above microwave. We get enough problems with some people worried about mobile phones, can you imagine what it will be like with Wi-Fi? --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 12/05/2005 Tested on: 14/05/2005 00:43:42 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Max Demian wrote:
What about 'analogue' teletext? How am I going to read the subtitles on my opera laserdiscs if I need to buy a new digital only TV? You will have at least another 10 years to buy an analouge T.V. after all if have taken more than that to get where we are now. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 12/05/2005 Tested on: 14/05/2005 00:45:13 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
"John" wrote in
: Nobody really knows, so its a waste of time speculating. That attitude won't get you a job at the Beeb mike |
"Ad" wrote in message ... John Russell wrote: There is an ever increasing fusion of technolgies. Mobile phones are now capable of recieving streaming video and they don't have huge DVB type aerials. But it will cost people money. Do you really think this will happen for free? My point is that current licencing sees the phone as a phone, supplied by one type of company, and TV as TV, supplied by others. If phone type technology works to supply video to small devices then TV companies should be allowed to use it for broadcast TV. |
"Ad" wrote in message ... Bert wrote: Thinking about my own TVs at home and lack of STBs on all 5 of them (eek!), got me to wondering what will happen at the big analogue switch-off... Other than the obvious, what will hapen - specifically to the DVB broadcasts in terms of power and capacity? I heard that the signal power will be increased. I sthat true? Also, will there eventually be new MUXes when the transmitters are not busy transmitting analogue signals too, making space for more channels and the ability to improve bitrates on the existing ones? Power will be increased, so we are told, but another Mux or even two have not been really been promised. so I expect we will still have the same crap we got now, because then they will push more channels into the space and do not have to worry about upseting people, since anyone who wants T.v will have to use digital. also... It strikes me that there must be millions of portable (and hand-held) TVs out there which rely on loop aerials and telescopic aerials used in locations where a rooftop aerial is unavailable or impossible to provide. Will hand-held TVs become a thing of the past? or will increased digital signal power mean that digital versions become practical? this is where there have been no thought and all Crown Castle and the government wants is money, fill there own back pockets and they do not care one bit about the public. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 12/05/2005 Tested on: 14/05/2005 00:35:32 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com The japenses have already demonstrated how advanced multichannel TV should work in the home. You would have a single multichannel decoder with a terrabyte hard disk recoerder. This is connect via it's own network to passive display devices (they don't have tuners!). You can route whatever channel/recording you want to whatever passive display you want. |
Ad wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: You could use Wi-Fi for distribution around the house and UWB for close range stuff. Wi-Fi uses high end frequencies, Wi-Fi uses 2.4 GHz, and (IIRC) 5.5 GHz, whereas visible light has a frequency of around 600,000 GHz. Do you still think Wi-Fi uses "high end frequencies", or just *higher frequencies*? over and above microwave. According to this: http://geography.uoregon.edu/shinker...rum-fig2-6.gif microwave goes up to frequencies which have wavelengths of 1 mm, which means that microwave frequencies go up to 300 GHz. So Ad, no, Wi-Fi does not use frequencies "over and above microwave" frequencies. We get enough problems with some people worried about mobile phones, can you imagine what it will be like with Wi-Fi? When you're transmitting a Wi-Fi signal around the house most people don't press their ear right next to the transmitting antenna. Then again, this would go some way to explain why you come out with some of the crap that you do come out with. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices: http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...tal_radios.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...rs_1GB-5GB.htm http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm |
On 14 May 2005 09:30:25 GMT, mike ring
wrote: Nobody really knows, so its a waste of time speculating. That attitude won't get you a job at the Beeb In reality it that attitude the BBC exactly wants, as they spend several thousands a year attempting to employ managers with this type of dismissive attitude. J |
John_ZIZinvalid wrote in
: On 14 May 2005 09:30:25 GMT, mike ring wrote: Nobody really knows, so its a waste of time speculating. That attitude won't get you a job at the Beeb In reality it that attitude the BBC exactly wants, as they spend several thousands a year attempting to employ managers with this type of dismissive attitude. If you look at News and Current Affairs output for a day, you will learn more about wasting time speculating than I could tell you in a millenium mike |
"mike ring" wrote in message . 1.4... "John" wrote in : Nobody really knows, so its a waste of time speculating. That attitude won't get you a job at the Beeb mike How wrong you can be. I work for the beeb already. John |
John Russell wrote:
My point is that current licencing sees the phone as a phone, supplied by one type of company, and TV as TV, supplied by others. If phone type technology works to supply video to small devices then TV companies should be allowed to use it for broadcast TV. No doubt, but I bet it will not be for free, the other problem is how long will batteries last on these phones? I had just had a thought. It is bad enough with people going around more interested in their mobile phones than looking where they are going as it is. Can you immagine what it will be like if they can watch T.V on them? --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 12/05/2005 Tested on: 14/05/2005 18:50:08 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
John Russell wrote:
The japenses have already demonstrated how advanced multichannel TV should work in the home. You would have a single multichannel decoder with a terrabyte hard disk recoerder. This is connect via it's own network to passive display devices (they don't have tuners!). You can route whatever channel/recording you want to whatever passive display you want. I am glad you said should work. For a start we are not in Japan, and the second thing is, that if/when it comes to this country, it will cost a fortune. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 12/05/2005 Tested on: 14/05/2005 18:51:51 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Wi-Fi uses 2.4 GHz, and (IIRC) 5.5 GHz, whereas visible light has a frequency of around 600,000 GHz. Do you still think Wi-Fi uses "high end frequencies", or just *higher frequencies*? Ok, higher freqencies. over and above microwave. According to this: http://geography.uoregon.edu/shinker...rum-fig2-6.gif microwave goes up to frequencies which have wavelengths of 1 mm, which means that microwave frequencies go up to 300 GHz. So Ad, no, Wi-Fi does not use frequencies "over and above microwave" frequencies. I meant the ones that are in the microwave ovens, you think what these waves do to your food, now think what the higher frequencies can do to you. We get enough problems with some people worried about mobile phones, can you imagine what it will be like with Wi-Fi? When you're transmitting a Wi-Fi signal around the house most people don't press their ear right next to the transmitting antenna. Then again, this would go some way to explain why you come out with some of the crap that you do come out with. I most houses you will never be that far away from the souce of transmission. My router is downstairs, my computer is upstairs, which means that I am more or less sitting on the router. How big do you think most houses are these days? --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0519-2, 12/05/2005 Tested on: 14/05/2005 18:55:45 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
"John" wrote in news:3empfsF401jeU1
@individual.net: Nobody really knows, so its a waste of time speculating. That attitude won't get you a job at the Beeb mike How wrong you can be. I work for the beeb already. John Ah, then you're among the *other* half; I used to be one of them mike |
On 14 May 2005 16:38:36 GMT, mike ring
wrote: Nobody really knows, so its a waste of time speculating. That attitude won't get you a job at the Beeb In reality it that attitude the BBC exactly wants, as they spend several thousands a year attempting to employ managers with this type of dismissive attitude. If you look at News and Current Affairs output for a day, you will learn more about wasting time speculating than I could tell you in a millenium Well it looks like the BBC has already got him. J |
John_ZIZinvalid wrote in
: If you look at News and Current Affairs output for a day, you will learn more about wasting time speculating than I could tell you in a millenium Well it looks like the BBC has already got him. Yup, and as I mixed up the two Johns, now I know why they got shot of me! But you seemed able to sort it out! mike ;o) |
On 15 May 2005 09:35:38 GMT, mike ring
wrote: If you look at News and Current Affairs output for a day, you will learn more about wasting time speculating than I could tell you in a millenium Well it looks like the BBC has already got him. Yup, and as I mixed up the two Johns, now I know why they got shot of me! But you seemed able to sort it out! mike ;o) I got out in 1993, and looking back, I escaped at the right time. J |
John_ZIZinvalid wrote in
: I got out in 1993, and looking back, I escaped at the right time. I lasted till 94 after a determined struggle as I was sure they couldn't cope without me. This turned out to be true! The other effect was, due to redundancy/tax/pension rules, I worked 6 months for nowt. Yup - zero, zip zilch, nada. Bugrit mike |
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