Comet Plasma Screen 'Advice'
 

So I'm in Comet last night, and I get an assistant (read:BOY) after waiting
a while and ask him

"Do you know about Plasma's"
"Yeah - I was told by Sony...",

Who at this point has become an individual person rather than a
multi-national - I digress, sorry...

"Yeah, I was told by Sony that I am the most knowledgeable person on
Plasma's in the region"
"Er, OK"
"What can I do for you"
"In that case please show me what Plasma's are capable of running HDCP over
HDMI for the new Sky system please"
"Yeah, this one" [Points to Pioneer]

*Suitably impressed with knowledge of Comet Salesboy at this point*

"I saw that on the web site already, any others?"
"No"
"Right, I was hoping you would say this one, that one, etc."
"Nope"
"Well what are you going to do about it then"
"Oh, clear out all the stock at Christmas and replace it all in January"
"All of it"
"That's what I heard"

*Now starting to sound more like Comet Sales Assistant*

"But, that's shocking - how can you rip people off like that"
"They won't know the difference"
"They will next summer!"
"Yeah, sky are going to release a little adapter to make it work...BS, BS,
BS"

*Sales boy goes from boy to fully qualified Comet Salesman*

Comments on a postcard please.....

Bob

"Bobby Internet" wrote in message
...

Comments on a postcard please.....

Bob


i'm v impressed , i couldn't find a comet salesman that knew what a plasma
was.

Bobby Internet wrote:
"Yeah, sky are going to release a little adapter to make it work...BS, BS,
BS"

Comments on a postcard please.....

Without knowing what exactly he's saying, its hard to comment - i.e. the
adapter would take HDMI in and produce what out? Its worth bearing in
mind though that HDCP is effectively a VPN designed to encrypt the high
definition digital signal between the source and the display device so
that you can't get at it. As far as I know, crypto keys for the decoders
have so far only been licenced for use in displays, not adapters.

Ben wrote:
Bobby Internet wrote:
"Yeah, sky are going to release a little adapter to make it
work...BS, BS, BS"

Comments on a postcard please.....

Without knowing what exactly he's saying, its hard to comment - i.e.
the adapter would take HDMI in and produce what out? Its worth
bearing in mind though that HDCP is effectively a VPN designed to
encrypt the high definition digital signal between the source and the
display device so that you can't get at it. As far as I know, crypto
keys for the decoders have so far only been licenced for use in
displays, not adapters.

Thing is, HDMI / HDCP is a digital standard. Encryption will be cracked at
some point, and there'll be plans to build your own "HDCP stripper" on the
net eventually...

--
We are the keepers of the sacred words: Ni, Pang,
and Ni-wom!

Bobby Internet wrote:
So I'm in Comet last night, and I get an assistant (read:BOY) after waiting
a while and ask him

"Do you know about Plasma's"
"Yeah - I was told by Sony...",

Who at this point has become an individual person rather than a
multi-national - I digress, sorry...

"Yeah, I was told by Sony that I am the most knowledgeable person on
Plasma's in the region"
"Er, OK"
"What can I do for you"
"In that case please show me what Plasma's are capable of running HDCP over
HDMI for the new Sky system please"
"Yeah, this one" [Points to Pioneer]

*Suitably impressed with knowledge of Comet Salesboy at this point*

"I saw that on the web site already, any others?"
"No"
"Right, I was hoping you would say this one, that one, etc."
"Nope"
"Well what are you going to do about it then"
"Oh, clear out all the stock at Christmas and replace it all in January"
"All of it"
"That's what I heard"

*Now starting to sound more like Comet Sales Assistant*

"But, that's shocking - how can you rip people off like that"
"They won't know the difference"
"They will next summer!"
"Yeah, sky are going to release a little adapter to make it work...BS, BS,
BS"

*Sales boy goes from boy to fully qualified Comet Salesman*

Comments on a postcard please.....

Comment: he's telling the truth up until he realises he's lost a sale,
and about £50 in commission, so he switches into salesman mode.

-Vin

"Bobby Internet" wrote in message
...
So I'm in Comet last night, and I get an assistant (read:BOY) after
waiting
a while and ask him

"Do you know about Plasma's"
"Yeah - I was told by Sony...",

Who at this point has become an individual person rather than a
multi-national - I digress, sorry...

"Yeah, I was told by Sony that I am the most knowledgeable person on
Plasma's in the region"
"Er, OK"
"What can I do for you"
"In that case please show me what Plasma's are capable of running HDCP
over
HDMI for the new Sky system please"
"Yeah, this one" [Points to Pioneer]

*Suitably impressed with knowledge of Comet Salesboy at this point*

I would probably drop through the floor if any Comet/Dixons/Currys/PCWorld
staff exhibited this level of knowledge. A salesman tried to tell me that a
DVI port was just for digital cameras the other day.

"I saw that on the web site already, any others?"
"No"
"Right, I was hoping you would say this one, that one, etc."
"Nope"
"Well what are you going to do about it then"
"Oh, clear out all the stock at Christmas and replace it all in January"
"All of it"
"That's what I heard"

*Now starting to sound more like Comet Sales Assistant*

As suspected, a whole shedload of plasmas and LCDs will be going cheap in
the next 9 months. These will be snapped up by the unknowing not realising
that HD cannot be implemented


"But, that's shocking - how can you rip people off like that"
"They won't know the difference"
"They will next summer!"
"Yeah, sky are going to release a little adapter to make it work...BS, BS,
BS"

*Sales boy goes from boy to fully qualified Comet Salesman*

How does a little adaptor get around the copyright protection, then?


Comments on a postcard please.....

I wonder if I could get a job in aforementioned shops? I would be too honest
though and if something was a piece of **** I would tell the customer

Tricky

There's an article on Digital Spy saying that, according to Sony, Sky's
new HD boxes will have analogue component outputs, but according to Sky,
most HDTV content will be HDCP protected anyway so they won't be much use.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds19787.html

Tricky Dicky wrote:
"Bobby Internet" wrote in message
...

So I'm in Comet last night, and I get an assistant (read:BOY) after
waiting
a while and ask him

"Do you know about Plasma's"
"Yeah - I was told by Sony...",

Who at this point has become an individual person rather than a
multi-national - I digress, sorry...

"Yeah, I was told by Sony that I am the most knowledgeable person on
Plasma's in the region"
"Er, OK"
"What can I do for you"
"In that case please show me what Plasma's are capable of running HDCP
over
HDMI for the new Sky system please"
"Yeah, this one" [Points to Pioneer]

*Suitably impressed with knowledge of Comet Salesboy at this point*


I would probably drop through the floor if any Comet/Dixons/Currys/PCWorld
staff exhibited this level of knowledge. A salesman tried to tell me that a
DVI port was just for digital cameras the other day.


"I saw that on the web site already, any others?"
"No"
"Right, I was hoping you would say this one, that one, etc."
"Nope"
"Well what are you going to do about it then"
"Oh, clear out all the stock at Christmas and replace it all in January"
"All of it"
"That's what I heard"

*Now starting to sound more like Comet Sales Assistant*


As suspected, a whole shedload of plasmas and LCDs will be going cheap in
the next 9 months. These will be snapped up by the unknowing not realising
that HD cannot be implemented



"But, that's shocking - how can you rip people off like that"
"They won't know the difference"
"They will next summer!"
"Yeah, sky are going to release a little adapter to make it work...BS, BS,
BS"

*Sales boy goes from boy to fully qualified Comet Salesman*


How does a little adaptor get around the copyright protection, then?

The copy protection is only an issue if it's switched on. There was a
big hoo-ha in 98 about Sky building Macrovision compliance into the
digiboxes but I don't recall it ever being used.

HDMI and the broadcast flag are about to hit the US Supreme Court - the
FCC have no right to mandate that electronics companies abide by the
copy protection, and if the American market renders HDMI useless the
copyright holders are likely to give up on the idea and not enforce it
in Europe. Cross fingers :)

Comments on a postcard please.....


I wonder if I could get a job in aforementioned shops? I would be too honest
though and if something was a piece of **** I would tell the customer

It's not about honesty, it's about product training. Everyone in this
group knows a fair bit about what to look for and what to avoid in a
plasma, DVD recorder, etc etc. Comet (sticking with them as an example
because my brother works Sundays for them while he's at Uni) simply
don't give their staff, 99% of whom are "the general public" when it
comes to bleeding edge technology, anything more than a lightweight
product spec - they're told to sell plasmas on the back of them being
flat and silver and space-saving, basically. Managers encourage them to
blag a little bit when cornered rather than admit they don't know the
answer, because they have increasingly ludicrous sales targets to hit,
and people that don't do the numbers on the floor usually end up working
in the back storeroom dragging washing machines out the door (usually to
find that the customer who refused to pay £10 for delivery is in a BMW
3-series and has absolutely no chance of getting his purchase home).

Next time a numpty feeds you bull****, remember that the blame usually
resides further up the chain. Not you personally, Dicky, just a general
comment.

But on that note, sales staff who do know what they're talking about,
rare though they are, tend to get the best sales, because if a customer
has a specific technical query (like this lad with the HDMI Pioneer
answer, initially) that they can answer, it usually points to the
highest priced stuff in store :)

-Vin

"Bobby Internet" wrote in message
...
So I'm in Comet last night, and I get an assistant (read:BOY) after
waiting
a while and ask him

"Do you know about Plasma's"

But did he try and sell you insurance???

Justin.

The copy protection is only an issue if it's switched on. There was a big
hoo-ha in 98 about Sky building Macrovision compliance into the digiboxes
but I don't recall it ever being used.

Its used on box office, and i think the other movie channels too.
--
Alex

I was in Currys a couple of weeks ago trying to choose a plasma, one of the
main things I needed was a VGA connection. A salesman came over so I asked
which screens had the PC input. He informed me that I did not need one as
the S Video or SCART connection was just as good as VGA if not better.

He also told me they could have it wall mounted professionaly as if the
plasma was tilted even slightly off plumb, it would destroy the gas in the
panel.

"dk" wrote in message
...
I was in Currys a couple of weeks ago trying to choose a plasma, one of
the
main things I needed was a VGA connection. A salesman came over so I
asked
which screens had the PC input. He informed me that I did not need one as
the S Video or SCART connection was just as good as VGA if not better.

He also told me they could have it wall mounted professionaly as if the
plasma was tilted even slightly off plumb, it would destroy the gas in the
panel.

He he... The other classic (I've heard from similar salespersons) is that
Plasma's need 'gassing up' every so often!!!

Justin.

"dk" wrote in message
...
I was in Currys a couple of weeks ago trying to choose a plasma, one of the
main things I needed was a VGA connection. A salesman came over so I asked
which screens had the PC input. He informed me that I did not need one as
the S Video or SCART connection was just as good as VGA if not better.

He also told me they could have it wall mounted professionaly as if the
plasma was tilted even slightly off plumb, it would destroy the gas in the
panel.

Well, that's just ignorance as fas as I am concerned. It's inexcusable for
sales people to go around talking such crap. I would have had to have said
something or just burst out laughing

Tricky

snipped

The copy protection is only an issue if it's switched on. There was a big
hoo-ha in 98 about Sky building Macrovision compliance into the digiboxes
but I don't recall it ever being used.

HDMI and the broadcast flag are about to hit the US Supreme Court - the
FCC have no right to mandate that electronics companies abide by the copy
protection, and if the American market renders HDMI useless the copyright
holders are likely to give up on the idea and not enforce it in Europe.
Cross fingers :)

It would indeed be a good thing if they pull it off. I guess it just depends
how much clout the studios have.


It's not about honesty, it's about product training. Everyone in this
group knows a fair bit about what to look for and what to avoid in a
plasma, DVD recorder, etc etc. Comet (sticking with them as an example
because my brother works Sundays for them while he's at Uni) simply don't
give their staff, 99% of whom are "the general public" when it comes to
bleeding edge technology, anything more than a lightweight product spec -
they're told to sell plasmas on the back of them being flat and silver and
space-saving, basically. Managers encourage them to blag a little bit when
cornered rather than admit they don't know the answer, because they have
increasingly ludicrous sales targets to hit, and people that don't do the
numbers on the floor usually end up working in the back storeroom dragging
washing machines out the door (usually to find that the customer who
refused to pay £10 for delivery is in a BMW 3-series and has absolutely no
chance of getting his purchase home).

Funnily enough, one of the more knowledgeable Comet employees I came across
was an "out the back" bloke - I guess he talked to the customers too much
rather than just trying to sell regardless.

Surely, though, if a sales person does blag it a bit and the customer buys
on their recommendation there would be some comeback?


Next time a numpty feeds you bull****, remember that the blame usually
resides further up the chain. Not you personally, Dicky, just a general
comment.

Why don't the shop workers ask for more information? I couldn't do a job
without knowing all the facts and when any of my bosses tries to get me on
something I don't understand then I put my hand up and say "err, what the
hell is this all about". Or is it different in retail?


But on that note, sales staff who do know what they're talking about, rare
though they are, tend to get the best sales, because if a customer has a
specific technical query (like this lad with the HDMI Pioneer answer,
initially) that they can answer, it usually points to the highest priced
stuff in store :)

LOL.

It is a truism that the kit with best spec will be the dearest (well 99% of
the time because the Tosh 340E DVD is only £70 and stunning)

Tricky

Alex wrote:
The copy protection is only an issue if it's switched on. There was a big
hoo-ha in 98 about Sky building Macrovision compliance into the digiboxes
but I don't recall it ever being used.


Its used on box office, and i think the other movie channels too.

It's never been there when I've taped anything off regular Sky Movies.
Never used Box Office in about 5 years of having SkyD - I assumed since
I hadn't seen any "why can't I record X off SBO?" they never turned it on.

-Vin

Tricky Dicky wrote:
snipped

The copy protection is only an issue if it's switched on. There was a big
hoo-ha in 98 about Sky building Macrovision compliance into the digiboxes
but I don't recall it ever being used.

HDMI and the broadcast flag are about to hit the US Supreme Court - the
FCC have no right to mandate that electronics companies abide by the copy
protection, and if the American market renders HDMI useless the copyright
holders are likely to give up on the idea and not enforce it in Europe.
Cross fingers :)


It would indeed be a good thing if they pull it off. I guess it just depends
how much clout the studios have.

I think we have a good chance. The FCC are mandated to regulate the
airwaves - broadcasting licenses, on-air content, that kind of thing.
There's nothing in their remit that says they can enforce any
restrictions on companies that manufacture cable decoders, HDTVs etc.
All it takes is one company to take that ball and run with it, and the
HDCP system in the US will collapse.

It's not about honesty, it's about product training. Everyone in this
group knows a fair bit about what to look for and what to avoid in a
plasma, DVD recorder, etc etc. Comet (sticking with them as an example
because my brother works Sundays for them while he's at Uni) simply don't
give their staff, 99% of whom are "the general public" when it comes to
bleeding edge technology, anything more than a lightweight product spec -
they're told to sell plasmas on the back of them being flat and silver and
space-saving, basically. Managers encourage them to blag a little bit when
cornered rather than admit they don't know the answer, because they have
increasingly ludicrous sales targets to hit, and people that don't do the
numbers on the floor usually end up working in the back storeroom dragging
washing machines out the door (usually to find that the customer who
refused to pay £10 for delivery is in a BMW 3-series and has absolutely no
chance of getting his purchase home).


Funnily enough, one of the more knowledgeable Comet employees I came across
was an "out the back" bloke - I guess he talked to the customers too much
rather than just trying to sell regardless.

Surely, though, if a sales person does blag it a bit and the customer buys
on their recommendation there would be some comeback?

There is - you've been sold it under false pretences. In practice, it's
difficult to prove: for every customer who is genuinely aggrieved,
there's an arsehole who's trying to blag it and ruining it for the rest
of us. I know with Comet, the managers get absolutely bollocked if they
refund something like a plasma, so they will do anything they can to
weasel out of it. The suggestion that they should sell the things
properly in the first place has apparently never been raised.

Next time a numpty feeds you bull****, remember that the blame usually
resides further up the chain. Not you personally, Dicky, just a general
comment.


Why don't the shop workers ask for more information? I couldn't do a job
without knowing all the facts and when any of my bosses tries to get me on
something I don't understand then I put my hand up and say "err, what the
hell is this all about". Or is it different in retail?

Variety of arguments:

- the information simply isn't available; someone at head office draws
up a prompt sheet for the product which sells it on all it's shiny nice
things. They're unlikely to make explicitly clear that the £2k TV
they're trying to get you to shift is no good for HDTV. Sins of omission
tend to be forgiven by the law; if they plead ignorance and you decide
to buy it, you've bought it on the strengths of what you do know about
the product.

- it's not their area. Most people in Comet stores, especially women,
tend to focus their speciality selling skills on things like washing
machines, cookers, dishwashers - they're more likely to sell these than
a plasma, so it's the area where knowing the strengths and weaknesses
(as well as the commission on it) pays dividends.

- outright cynicism. The attitude most people on here would take if they
ended up working in Comet: "if you're stupid enough to buy a £4,000 TV
from Comet instead of a specialist store that's cheaper and has a better
range, who am I to stop you?"

But on that note, sales staff who do know what they're talking about, rare
though they are, tend to get the best sales, because if a customer has a
specific technical query (like this lad with the HDMI Pioneer answer,
initially) that they can answer, it usually points to the highest priced
stuff in store :)


LOL.

It is a truism that the kit with best spec will be the dearest (well 99% of
the time because the Tosh 340E DVD is only £70 and stunning)

I'm sure the top of the range £3k-ish Denon DVD player is stunning too :)

-Vin

"Ben" wrote in message
...
There's an article on Digital Spy saying that, according to Sony, Sky's
new HD boxes will have analogue component outputs, but according to Sky,
most HDTV content will be HDCP protected anyway so they won't be much use.

My understanding of this (which is probably wrong) from reading articles in
american magazines is that only the digital output will be encrypted in
order to prevent copying. There will still have to be a conventional
analogue component output to allow the receiver to be used with existing TV
sets.

(kim)

big snip


It is a truism that the kit with best spec will be the dearest (well 99%
of the time because the Tosh 340E DVD is only £70 and stunning)

I'm sure the top of the range £3k-ish Denon DVD player is stunning too :)

Yes it is. I was lucky enough to see it demoed with it's new sister amp at
the Bristol show a few weeks back. One simple word: awesome. This months
hi-fi mags have reviews of the amp btw. But at £4000 for the amp and £2500
for the player that is just a wee bit out of my price range :-)

Tricky

"kim" wrote in message
...
"Ben" wrote in message
...
There's an article on Digital Spy saying that, according to Sony, Sky's
new HD boxes will have analogue component outputs, but according to Sky,
most HDTV content will be HDCP protected anyway so they won't be much
use.

My understanding of this (which is probably wrong) from reading articles
in american magazines is that only the digital output will be encrypted in
order to prevent copying. There will still have to be a conventional
analogue component output to allow the receiver to be used with existing
TV sets.

That is how I have understood it. You will be able to feed a HD television
digitally and benefit from this or feed a standard televison with analogue
(without of course the benefits of HD)

Tricky

ViNNY wrote on Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:51:43 +0000:

Alex wrote:
The copy protection is only an issue if it's switched on. There was a
big hoo-ha in 98 about Sky building Macrovision compliance into the
digiboxes but I don't recall it ever being used.

Its used on box office, and i think the other movie channels too.

It's never been there when I've taped anything off regular Sky Movies.
Never used Box Office in about 5 years of having SkyD - I assumed since I
hadn't seen any "why can't I record X off SBO?" they never turned it
on.

It was definitely on Box Office a couple of years ago at least. Haven't used
it myself since then.

Dan

Spack wrote:
ViNNY wrote on Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:51:43 +0000:


Alex wrote:

The copy protection is only an issue if it's switched on. There was a
big hoo-ha in 98 about Sky building Macrovision compliance into the
digiboxes but I don't recall it ever being used.


Its used on box office, and i think the other movie channels too.

It's never been there when I've taped anything off regular Sky Movies.
Never used Box Office in about 5 years of having SkyD - I assumed since I
hadn't seen any "why can't I record X off SBO?" they never turned it
on.


It was definitely on Box Office a couple of years ago at least. Haven't used
it myself since then.

Well if they're using it, then fair dos.

It's a tradeoff, though - people are quick to blame stuff like that on
Sky being "money grabbing c*nts" etc., but pound to a penny it's the
movie studios that are pushing things like this.

-Vin