ITV1 football aspect ratios
 

On ITV1, DTT.
Saw this on tonights Champions League Football.
Also on US Superbowl (on ITV1 a couple of weeks ago)

TV is 25" 4:3 ; displayed picture is something like 22" 4:3, ie black
border ALL AROUND.

I didn't check analog ITV1 tonight, but the Superbowl was OK on analog
ITV1

No changing of Wide format settings helps.
This is crazy.

Is my equipment messed up, or is it ITV1.
Just want to know.

OtF

on-the-fence wrote:

On ITV1, DTT.
Saw this on tonights Champions League Football.
Also on US Superbowl (on ITV1 a couple of weeks ago)

TV is 25" 4:3 ; displayed picture is something like 22" 4:3, ie black
border ALL AROUND.

I didn't check analog ITV1 tonight,

ITV1 analogue was full frame 4x3 and looked fine.

Unlike ITV2 from Sky digital which was horrendous. The pitch was just
one big green blob with little or no surface texture, even the white
lines tended to disappear at times. I've seen better LP VHS recordings.

--

Peter

on-the-fence wrote:
On ITV1, DTT.
Saw this on tonights Champions League Football.
Also on US Superbowl (on ITV1 a couple of weeks ago)

TV is 25" 4:3 ; displayed picture is something like 22" 4:3, ie black
border ALL AROUND.

I didn't check analog ITV1 tonight, but the Superbowl was OK on analog
ITV1

No changing of Wide format settings helps.
This is crazy.

Is my equipment messed up, or is it ITV1.
Just want to know.

They transmit a widescreen picture with black bars up the edges to mask it
back to 4:3.
On a widescreen set it looks right, picture full height with black bars at
the sides.
On a 4:3 set it looks crap, you get a widescreen picture so there's the
black lines top and bottom but because of the blanks left and right you end
up with the 'picture in picture' effect.
BBC did it with Ski Sunday and the World Champs.

--
James...
www.jameshart.co.uk

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 22:07:56 GMT, on-the-fence
wrote:

Is my equipment messed up, or is it ITV1.
Just want to know.

Dunno about the Football, I don't watch it, but the Superbowl was
definitely screwed. It is such a shame Five didn't show the NFL
playoffs and Superbowl, their show and ability to do widescreen was
infinitely preferable to the crappy ITV effort.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

Peter Hayes wrote:
on-the-fence wrote:

On ITV1, DTT.
Saw this on tonights Champions League Football.
Also on US Superbowl (on ITV1 a couple of weeks ago)

TV is 25" 4:3 ; displayed picture is something like 22" 4:3, ie black
border ALL AROUND.

I didn't check analog ITV1 tonight,

ITV1 analogue was full frame 4x3 and looked fine.

Unlike ITV2 from Sky digital which was horrendous. The pitch was just
one big green blob with little or no surface texture, even the white
lines tended to disappear at times. I've seen better LP VHS
recordings.

Problem with ITV1 and ITV2 on satellie is that they are broadcast as 544x576
not 720/704x576 - whether they are carrying 16:9 full-width or 4:3
full-width material. This goes horribly wrong when the broadcast is a 4:3
image within a 16:9 frame - as this is broadcast as a 16:9 544x576 image,
with the 4:3 image only using about 400 samples horizontally (i.e.
400ishx576) Add to this the horribly high compression rates ITV use on DSat
and you get a soft, mushy picture...

Freeview isn't much better now they are squeezing ITV1/2/3/News into less
than 12Mbs - in London at least. Most of the rest of the UK doesn't get
ITVNews at the moment AIUI - so probably looks a bit better than London on
DTT.

Steve

In message , on-the-fence
writes
On ITV1, DTT.
Saw this on tonights Champions League Football.
Also on US Superbowl (on ITV1 a couple of weeks ago)

TV is 25" 4:3 ; displayed picture is something like 22" 4:3, ie black
border ALL AROUND.

I didn't check analog ITV1 tonight, but the Superbowl was OK on analog
ITV1

No changing of Wide format settings helps.
This is crazy.

Is my equipment messed up, or is it ITV1.
Just want to know.

OtF

ITV2 footie was widescreen, it seems 1&2 can't both be such at the same
time.
--
Ian.

news wrote:

ITV2 footie was widescreen, it seems 1&2 can't both be such at the same
time.

Well they can. The ITV-1 match was from Germany, and produced locally in
4:3. ITV (and BBC) Sport have this ludicrous policy of presenting sports
events such as this in 16:9 (only because they include half time
comments from a 16:9 studio). Therefore the entire programme is produced
as 16:9 with the match itself shown as a 4:3 pillar box. The ITV2 match
was from the UK, and therefore produced entirely in 16:9.

As with end credit squashing, babbling all over title music, on screen
DOGs etc etc, the broadcasters know best apparently.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply

"on-the-fence" wrote in message
...
On ITV1, DTT.
Saw this on tonights Champions League Football.
Also on US Superbowl (on ITV1 a couple of weeks ago)

TV is 25" 4:3 ; displayed picture is something like 22" 4:3, ie
black
border ALL AROUND.

I didn't check analog ITV1 tonight, but the Superbowl was OK on
analog
ITV1

No changing of Wide format settings helps.
This is crazy.

Is my equipment messed up, or is it ITV1.
Just want to know.

OtF


Could it be your set is switched to wide or letterbox only rather than
auto? We have a conventional 21" TV which shows a full screen picture
if the original is not widescreen, but from cable the picture will
have a border all round, whereas on 'normal' BBC or ITV origin signals
(which presumably are now all in w/s format) we get a letterbox with a
wider picture than off-air. One assumes w/s has not reached Germany
yet?


--
Woody

harrogate2 at ntlworld dot com

harrogate2 wrote:

[snip]

One assumes w/s has not reached Germany
yet?

It has, I've seen ARD and ZDF carrying PalPlus 16:9 transmissions on
analogue, and also VRT Belgium and NOS Holland.

However the programminmg in w/s on those networks is 'upmarket' arts or
films, I've not seen any sports coverage presented that way.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply

"on-the-fence" wrote in message
...
On ITV1, DTT.
Saw this on tonights Champions League Football.
Also on US Superbowl (on ITV1 a couple of weeks ago)

TV is 25" 4:3 ; displayed picture is something like 22" 4:3, ie black
border ALL AROUND.

I didn't check analog ITV1 tonight, but the Superbowl was OK on analog
ITV1

No changing of Wide format settings helps.
This is crazy.

If you have a 4:3 and are watching Champions League games from abroad, then
pressing the 'wide' button on your DTT remote should zoom in. Blame the
satellite feeds for the lack of width.


--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"harrogate2" wrote in message
...

"on-the-fence" wrote in message
...
On ITV1, DTT.
Saw this on tonights Champions League Football.
Also on US Superbowl (on ITV1 a couple of weeks ago)

TV is 25" 4:3 ; displayed picture is something like 22" 4:3, ie
black
border ALL AROUND.

I didn't check analog ITV1 tonight, but the Superbowl was OK on
analog
ITV1

No changing of Wide format settings helps.
This is crazy.

Is my equipment messed up, or is it ITV1.
Just want to know.

OtF


Could it be your set is switched to wide or letterbox only rather than
auto? We have a conventional 21" TV which shows a full screen picture
if the original is not widescreen, but from cable the picture will
have a border all round, whereas on 'normal' BBC or ITV origin signals
(which presumably are now all in w/s format) we get a letterbox with a
wider picture than off-air. One assumes w/s has not reached Germany
yet?


It has, I am sure, but the feed is not wide.


--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

ITV2 footie was widescreen, it seems 1&2 can't both be such at the same
time.
--
Ian.

No, the ITV2 game, I suspect was Liverpool v Leverkusen, and so the feed was
not from abroad, so ITV could show it how they wanted i.e. wide.


--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
The ITV-1 match was from Germany, and produced locally in
4:3. ITV (and BBC) Sport have this ludicrous policy of presenting sports
events such as this in 16:9
As a 4x3 viewer, I would rather watch a full screen picture than one with
black borders. Thankfully the ITV1 analogue picture was shown this way. It
is a shame that Freeview is not used to provide the best possible picture
quality. Does the Freeview technology allow 4x3 full screen from a 4:3 non
UK source (e.g. by use indicators or pan and scan information)? I feel it
must be as Channel 4 has shown the Tour de France (not Germany I know) full
screen with pictures of outstanding quality. Which is the authority
responsible for best practice in the use of the Freeview system?

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
The ITV-1 match was from Germany, and produced locally in
4:3. ITV (and BBC) Sport have this ludicrous policy of presenting sports
events such as this in 16:9
As a 4x3 viewer, I would rather watch a full screen picture than one with
black borders. Thankfully the ITV1 analogue picture was shown this way. It
is a shame that Freeview is not used to provide the best possible picture
quality. Does the Freeview technology allow 4x3 full screen from a 4:3 non
UK source (e.g. by use indicators or pan and scan information)? I feel it
must be as Channel 4 has shown the Tour de France (not Germany I know) full
screen with pictures of outstanding quality. Which is the authority
responsible for best practice in the use of the Freeview system?

Thanks for the replies.
(Strangely my NTL news-server has had a hiccup so I saw them via
Google.)

I feel the poster who stated that we were seeing 4:3 content (the
football) tranmitted as 16:9 by adding black vertical bars was
correct.
Then my 4:3 TV letterboxes the 16:9 transmission - and the result is
a black border all around !

It's a shame the Freeview box (Pioneer DBR-TF100) doesn't have a zoom
mode for just this.
I still think this is appalling, but I suppose it's a good incentive
for me to go out and buy a 16:9 TV set !

Cheers,
OtF

"Slow Flyer" wrote in message
...

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
The ITV-1 match was from Germany, and produced locally in
4:3. ITV (and BBC) Sport have this ludicrous policy of presenting sports
events such as this in 16:9
As a 4x3 viewer, I would rather watch a full screen picture than one with
black borders.

As a 4:3 viewer, I would rather watch as much of the action as possible
regardless of borders.

Thankfully the ITV1 analogue picture was shown this way. It
is a shame that Freeview is not used to provide the best possible picture
quality.

The quality of the picture was unaffected by the borders.

Does the Freeview technology allow 4x3 full screen from a 4:3 non
UK source (e.g. by use indicators or pan and scan information)?

Yes, on my Philips DTT remote I just simply press the 'wide' button.


--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
news wrote:

ITV2 footie was widescreen, it seems 1&2 can't both be such at the
same
time.

Well they can. The ITV-1 match was from Germany, and produced
locally in
4:3. ITV (and BBC) Sport have this ludicrous policy of presenting
sports
events such as this in 16:9 (only because they include half time
comments from a 16:9 studio). Therefore the entire programme is
produced
as 16:9 with the match itself shown as a 4:3 pillar box. The ITV2
match
was from the UK, and therefore produced entirely in 16:9.



Now there's an interesting prospect - '4:3 pillar box'

Does that mean everything is red?


--
Woody

harrogate2 at ntlworld dot com

"John Porcella" wrote in message
...
Does the Freeview technology allow 4x3 full screen from a 4:3 non
UK source (e.g. by use indicators or pan and scan information)?

Yes, on my Philips DTT remote I just simply press the 'wide' button.

You seem to place the "fault" with the makers of the digital TV receiver, so
it seems like a case of buyer beware. My old Philips On Digital box does
always show a full screen 4x3 picture. But my newer Pace Twin will only
show some transmissions (suchas the ITV1 football) in letterbox format with
black bands top and bottom. Whereas the Philips gives me the choice to
override the broadcast information, the Pace gives me only the picture the
broadcaster intended me to see; in this case a 52cm picture in a 66cm
screen!

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:48:07 -0000, "Slow Flyer"
wrote:

You seem to place the "fault" with the makers of the digital TV receiver, so
it seems like a case of buyer beware. My old Philips On Digital box does
always show a full screen 4x3 picture. But my newer Pace Twin will only
show some transmissions (suchas the ITV1 football) in letterbox format with
black bands top and bottom. Whereas the Philips gives me the choice to
override the broadcast information, the Pace gives me only the picture the
broadcaster intended me to see; in this case a 52cm picture in a 66cm
screen!

Doesn't take a couple of seconds to go into the setup menus of your
receiver and say "4:3 fullscreen, no letterbox", though - particularly
if it's something which you're going to be watching all the way
through.

"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:48:07 -0000, "Slow Flyer"
wrote:

You seem to place the "fault" with the makers of the digital TV receiver,
so
it seems like a case of buyer beware. My old Philips On Digital box does
always show a full screen 4x3 picture. But my newer Pace Twin will only
show some transmissions (suchas the ITV1 football) in letterbox format
with
black bands top and bottom. Whereas the Philips gives me the choice to
override the broadcast information, the Pace gives me only the picture
the
broadcaster intended me to see; in this case a 52cm picture in a 66cm
screen!

Doesn't take a couple of seconds to go into the setup menus of your
receiver and say "4:3 fullscreen, no letterbox", though - particularly
if it's something which you're going to be watching all the way
through.

Alas, I don't find such a setup amongst the Pace Twin's menu options.

Slow Flyer said the following on 2005-03-01 15:23:
"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:48:07 -0000, "Slow Flyer"
wrote:


You seem to place the "fault" with the makers of the digital TV receiver,

so

it seems like a case of buyer beware. My old Philips On Digital box does
always show a full screen 4x3 picture. But my newer Pace Twin will only
show some transmissions (suchas the ITV1 football) in letterbox format

with

black bands top and bottom. Whereas the Philips gives me the choice to
override the broadcast information, the Pace gives me only the picture

the

broadcaster intended me to see; in this case a 52cm picture in a 66cm
screen!

Doesn't take a couple of seconds to go into the setup menus of your
receiver and say "4:3 fullscreen, no letterbox", though - particularly
if it's something which you're going to be watching all the way
through.


Alas, I don't find such a setup amongst the Pace Twin's menu options.


Menu
Configuration
Installation
TV Settings

Then under "Main TV" choose the following

TV screen format [Normal (4:3)]
16:9 Picture Handling [Full Screen] (Also offers Letterbox - 14:9 or
True Letterbox (16:9)

Kev

"Kev" wrote in message
...
Slow Flyer said the following on 2005-03-01 15:23:
"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:48:07 -0000, "Slow Flyer"
wrote:


You seem to place the "fault" with the makers of the digital TV
receiver,

so

it seems like a case of buyer beware. My old Philips On Digital box
does
always show a full screen 4x3 picture. But my newer Pace Twin will
only
show some transmissions (suchas the ITV1 football) in letterbox format

with

black bands top and bottom. Whereas the Philips gives me the choice to
override the broadcast information, the Pace gives me only the picture

the

broadcaster intended me to see; in this case a 52cm picture in a 66cm
screen!

Doesn't take a couple of seconds to go into the setup menus of your
receiver and say "4:3 fullscreen, no letterbox", though - particularly
if it's something which you're going to be watching all the way
through.


Alas, I don't find such a setup amongst the Pace Twin's menu options.


Menu
Configuration
Installation
TV Settings

Then under "Main TV" choose the following

TV screen format [Normal (4:3)]
16:9 Picture Handling [Full Screen] (Also offers Letterbox - 14:9 or
True Letterbox (16:9)

Kev
Thank's for the hint. 4x3 full screen is the setting in use by me on my Pace
Twin.
With this setting the ITV1 football was 4x3, but the picture had a black
border all round. In my case a 52cm picture on a 66cm screen. In my view
this is not full screen.

With the Pace Twin the majority of programs do show a full screen 4x3
picture, but for those that don't some feel this is a Pace bug, others a
broadcast fault. The Philips box always gives a full screen 4x3 picture.

In article , Slow Flyer wrote:
With this setting the ITV1 football was 4x3, but the picture had a black
border all round.

I don't know much about it, but I thought footballs were round. :-)

Rod.

Roderick Stewart wrote:
In article , Slow Flyer wrote:

With this setting the ITV1 football was 4x3, but the picture had a black
border all round.


I don't know much about it, but I thought footballs were round. :-)

But not yet 'super round' as featured on Look Around You a couple of
weeks ago.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.