why cant they run the bloody programs on time!
 

I recently got a Humax freeview hard drive recorder. I think it is great
except for one thing - which has nothing to do with Humax. I was really
looking forward to just going through the EPG for the week pressing the
programs I want. When I went to watch them I found that without exception on
the main channels they were running late, especally bbc2 which on one day
was nearly 6 minutes late. It is so bloody annoying to watch a program for
an hour or more only to have the end chopped off. Dont they have any clocks
at the tv studios!!!!

Its not as if there were any earth shattering events that caused a programe
to overrun or even sports going on longer than planned (i could go on about
that one in particular, but that is another issue) :-) . This is a
constant feature so why does this happen, sure i could make manual
adjustments and add a few minutes on to the recording but that defeats the
point of the epg and a pain in the arse if you want to record programs on
one channel as soon as a programme on another finishes. Is there any chance
that the epg will be updated in real time so programme over/under runs are
noted and the timings altered.

My old video recordr had a feature that could recognise when a programme was
over running and made appropriate changes - i cant remember exactly what it
was called - program time control or something - such a feature on the
freeview epg would be great - or would the technology of the box have to be
updated too.

John R Whale wrote:

My old video recordr had a feature that could recognise when a
programme was over running and made appropriate changes - i cant
remember exactly what it was called - program time control or
something - such a feature on the freeview epg would be great - or
would the technology of the box have to be updated too.


Programme Delivery Control (PDC):

http://www.jvc.co.uk/knowledge-list.php?id=5#0

It is baffling why they've not incorporated that feature into DTT PVRs.

Same goes for teletext on DTT not updating itself, e.g. football scores,
share prices etc.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices:
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DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
John R Whale wrote:


My old video recordr had a feature that could recognise when a
programme was over running and made appropriate changes - i cant
remember exactly what it was called - program time control or
something - such a feature on the freeview epg would be great - or
would the technology of the box have to be updated too.



Programme Delivery Control (PDC):

http://www.jvc.co.uk/knowledge-list.php?id=5#0

It is baffling why they've not incorporated that feature into DTT PVRs.

There's no need for PDC, and besides it can not be provided on DTT
because, for one reason, VBI teletext is not carried.

BTW very good technical description he-
http://625.uk.com/pdc/index.htm

But dynamically updated EPG information *with* proper implementation by
the manufacturers to respond to this should give 'PDC functionality'

The Beeb (and it seems now C5) certainly dynamically adjust their EPG
EIT trigger data on D-Sat, and the Sky+ box responds to this.
Consequently recordings I make from the BBC with Sky+ never get chopped
when they over run. ITV and C4 do however.

It's disappointing to learn that the Humax does not check the EIT data
for changes, and I'll be sticking with Sky+ (at &10/m) until a DTT PVR
comes out with equivalent functionality.

Same goes for teletext on DTT not updating itself, e.g. football scores,
share prices etc.

I agree, that is poor.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:

John R Whale wrote:


My old video recordr had a feature that could recognise when a
programme was over running and made appropriate changes - i cant
remember exactly what it was called - program time control or
something - such a feature on the freeview epg would be great - or
would the technology of the box have to be updated too.




Programme Delivery Control (PDC):

http://www.jvc.co.uk/knowledge-list.php?id=5#0

It is baffling why they've not incorporated that feature into DTT PVRs.


There's no need for PDC, and besides it can not be provided on DTT
because, for one reason, VBI teletext is not carried.

BTW very good technical description he-
http://625.uk.com/pdc/index.htm

But dynamically updated EPG information *with* proper implementation by
the manufacturers to respond to this should give 'PDC functionality'

The Beeb (and it seems now C5) certainly dynamically adjust their EPG
EIT trigger data on D-Sat, and the Sky+ box responds to this.
Consequently recordings I make from the BBC with Sky+ never get chopped
when they over run. ITV and C4 do however.

It's disappointing to learn that the Humax does not check the EIT data
for changes, and I'll be sticking with Sky+ (at &10/m) until a DTT PVR
comes out with equivalent functionality.

Same goes for teletext on DTT not updating itself, e.g. football
scores, share prices etc.


I agree, that is poor.

There was talk about PVRs using the now/next update (within an
appropriate window - I guess -5/+x of the EPG time) as the trigger to
start recording. This would not always work - for instance, if their is
a sports programme, 10 minutes of news and then the programme you want,
if the match overran by 15 minutes the now/next transition would be for
the start of the news.

Nick

In article , John R Whale
wrote:
I recently got a Humax freeview hard drive recorder. I think it is great
except for one thing - which has nothing to do with Humax. I was really
looking forward to just going through the EPG for the week pressing the
programs I want. When I went to watch them I found that without exception on
the main channels they were running late, especally bbc2 which on one day
was nearly 6 minutes late. It is so bloody annoying to watch a program for
an hour or more only to have the end chopped off. Dont they have any clocks
at the tv studios!!!!

Yes, it's nothing clever at all, just a timer. When I'm setting a recording
timer on any machine, I usually start it one minute early, and end it a couple
of minutes late if it's an ITV programme, ten minutes late if it's on BBC, and
fifteen or twenty minutes late if it's a live event that might overrun, and
sometimes even longer if there's a sporting event before it. At least with the
Humax I only have to edit a time that's already entered.

The BBC is dreadful for timekeeping. Even if they are running late they still
seem to feel the need to pad out the space between programmes with trails for
future programmes and adverts for themselves. ITV companies manage to
accommodate real adverts and keep exactly to time, though sometimes the
advertised start time is only given to the nearest five minutes and the real
start time can be a minute earlier.

Rod.

"Nick" wrote in message
.. .
Mark Carver wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
John R Whale wrote:

My old video recordr had a feature that could recognise when a
programme was over running and made appropriate changes - i cant
remember exactly what it was called - program time control or
something - such a feature on the freeview epg would be great - or
would the technology of the box have to be updated too.

Programme Delivery Control (PDC):

http://www.jvc.co.uk/knowledge-list.php?id=5#0

It is baffling why they've not incorporated that feature into DTT PVRs.

There's no need for PDC,

Very useful feature (when it works).

and besides it can not be provided on DTT because, for one reason, VBI
teletext is not carried.

It could be provided some other way. It's just an identifying signal.

BTW very good technical description he-
http://625.uk.com/pdc/index.htm

But dynamically updated EPG information *with* proper implementation by
the manufacturers to respond to this should give 'PDC functionality'

The Beeb (and it seems now C5) certainly dynamically adjust their EPG EIT
trigger data on D-Sat, and the Sky+ box responds to this. Consequently
recordings I make from the BBC with Sky+ never get chopped when they over
run. ITV and C4 do however.

It's disappointing to learn that the Humax does not check the EIT data
for changes, and I'll be sticking with Sky+ (at &10/m) until a DTT PVR
comes out with equivalent functionality.

I suspect that the reason that they didn't put PDC (or equivalent) on DTT is
that the broadcasters are fed up with making sure they press the right
buttons (or whatever they do). The BBC are particularly bad at this - often
the PDC signals start late or not at all - or it starts and then stops. PDC
is *much* too convenient for viewers and, after all, we are 'product' not
'customers'.

I don't see how an updated EPG can have the same functionality: it would
work for known schedule changes, but not general 'slackness' of programme
timings.

There was talk about PVRs using the now/next update (within an appropriate
window - I guess -5/+x of the EPG time) as the trigger to start recording.
This would not always work - for instance, if their is a sports programme,
10 minutes of news and then the programme you want, if the match overran
by 15 minutes the now/next transition would be for the start of the news.

For minor programme timing errors they don't bother to change the now/next.

--
Max Demian

Mark Carver wrote:

But dynamically updated EPG information *with* proper implementation
by
the manufacturers to respond to this should give 'PDC functionality'

I agree with the sentiments of the original poster though - forget all
this technical trickery and bodgery - the time in the EPG (a week
ahead!) should be the _exact_ time the programme will be broadcast.

The bad time keeping is clearly deliberate. I can understand why they
might want to round it to the nearest five minutes in printed listings
(even if they don't want to run programmes at these times for
commercial competitive reasons), but surely programmes that start at
7:29 or 10:37 should be listed as such electronically?

Cheers,
David.

Max Demian wrote:


I suspect that the reason that they didn't put PDC (or equivalent) on DTT is
that the broadcasters are fed up with making sure they press the right
buttons (or whatever they do). The BBC are particularly bad at this - often
the PDC signals start late or not at all - or it starts and then stops. PDC
is *much* too convenient for viewers and, after all, we are 'product' not
'customers'.

I don't see how an updated EPG can have the same functionality: it would
work for known schedule changes, but not general 'slackness' of programme
timings.

My experience of the BBC on D-Sat is that it does.

For minor programme timing errors they don't bother to change the now/next.

Yes they do, because AIUI the EIT/EPG triggers are driven from the
playout computer (that also drives the playout servers etc)

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:22:45 GMT, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

The BBC is dreadful for timekeeping. Even if they are running late they
still
seem to feel the need to pad out the space between programmes with
trails for
future programmes and adverts for themselves.


That's what really p****s me off too. After a programme finishes late,
they refuse to catch up and instead continue to shovel in their promos.
It's particular;y annoying because these expensively-produced adverts are
made with licence money
that should have been spent on the delayed programmes that follow them.

Arthur