On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 20:32:04 -0500, "Golf God"
wrote:



Of course, and he gets more attention. Why do they give him what he wants?

Because he has a point. Valid one. Why do you blindly cheerlead instead of
acknowledging Tivo's faults?


TIVO may have faults, but it's a Rhodes Scholar compared to the
totally brain dead offerings from Scientific Atlanta. They are most
thoroughly incompetent bunch of idiots to ever foist a consumer
electronic device on the public. Whatever they're being paid, it's
too much. They should all be fired. They ought to use TIVOs
software. Say what you will. It works, SAs doesn't.

"Eric J. Holtman" wrote in message
0...
"eric" wrote in news:[email protected]:


"Lazarus Long" wrote in message
...
Honest to pete, this isn't splitting the atom, I'd use a SA DVR if
they'd get the damn thing work right.

I agree, it's amazing that after all these years the developers of Cable
DVRs still don't have software that is on par with Tivo's. What good is
great hardware if the software driving it is crap?



Well, if you've dropped low to mid five figures on a home theater,
and you want to watch shows in HD, but not watch them when the network
airs them, you can't really use a Tivo to do that (unless you have
DirecTV).

So, in that case (which I understand puts me in the minority of users,
but soon *many* people will have HD), one has to put up with a ****ty
user interface to be able to enjoy their investments.

And I don't think anyone has disputed that attitude. If through the cable
co is the only way to get what you want, then I really don't see how anyone
can be criticized for that. Most of the arguing and Sean bashing going on
is because of his delusion that everybody should dump TiVo in favor of their
cable companies DVR offering. He refuse that acknowledge that most of the
cable DVRs are crap.

In your case, crap or not, it is the only one that will do the job you want,
and for that it (hopefully) works "well enough" for you and I really do hope
you enjoy it.

And I don't think anyone has disputed that attitude. If through the
cable co is the only way to get what you want, then I really don't see
how anyone can be criticized for that. Most of the arguing and Sean
bashing going on is because of his delusion that everybody should dump
TiVo in favor of their cable companies DVR offering. He refuse that
acknowledge that most of the cable DVRs are crap.

In your case, crap or not, it is the only one that will do the job you
want, and for that it (hopefully) works "well enough" for you and I
really do hope you enjoy it.


I totally agree w/ Seth here. There are things that Tivo won't do yet
for non-DTV customers, namely dual tuners and HD. For those with high
end setups where HD is crucial it makes sense to use an HD capable DVR,
even if you have to make compromises. I think Eric's reasoning is very
sensible and understandable. Hopefully sometime soon Tivo will offer an
alternative choice capable of HD.

The point is that HD is *not* crucial for most *yet*. The mistaken
conclusion that some are stating is that because Tivo isn't offering SA
HD Tivo's yet, NOBODY should use any Tivo's (even if they aren't using
HD), which is an asinine assertion.

Randy S.

"Eric J. Holtman" wrote in message
0...
"eric" wrote in news:[email protected]:


Snip

So, in that case (which I understand puts me in the minority of users,
but soon *many* people will have HD), one has to put up with a ****ty
user interface to be
Why is there no HD in a SA Tivo unit. Blame the cable companies as
they have monopolized the HD signals. Tivo could do a HD unit but it
would only be able to do OTA and not cable signals. This will happen
when they can put Cable Card slots in the units and when they have
access to the digital signal and can translate it. That is were all the
HD channels are on cable systems and they are there because it
keeps companies like Tivo from producing a HD unit.
Take a look at the Tuner cards you can purchase for your PC
do you see one that will do digital channels, No. You will not
until again the cable companies open up their systems to other
companies. They are supposed to by FCC mandate but they
are dragging their feet as long as they can.
John

"Seth" wrote in
:

"Eric J. Holtman" wrote in message


So, in that case (which I understand puts me in the minority of
users, but soon *many* people will have HD), one has to put up with a
****ty user interface to be able to enjoy their investments.

And I don't think anyone has disputed that attitude. If through the
cable co is the only way to get what you want, then I really don't see
how anyone can be criticized for that. Most of the arguing and Sean
bashing going on is because of his delusion that everybody should dump
TiVo in favor of their cable companies DVR offering. He refuse that
acknowledge that most of the cable DVRs are crap.


Well, there's a subtle difference between "crap", and "good enough".
Many of the Tivangelists on this group (and I have been guilty of
being one) preach a line similiar to this:

"Cable Co DVRs are total crap, no one will want to use one".

Now, this flies in the face of observable data. Apparently, there are
in fact many many many people out there who are willing to pay $5 or
$10/month, with no upfront fees, for a braindead VCR.

I think part of the problem is the self-selecting nature of Tivo users
in general, and this newsgroup in particular. A lot of people here have
multiple Tivos, a network, many have added drives, hacked in TyTools,
ripped MPEGs off a device before TivoToGo, etc, etc, etc.

Of *course* those people will think CableCo DVR suck royal ass, and of
*course* those people will never want to use one.

On the other side of the fence are the JoeSixpacks of the world, whose
VCRs still flash 12:00, and who just want to record a few shows. My
parents are in that group. They have an SA Box. They love it. They
don't miss features they've never used.

*THAT SIDE OF THE FENCE HAS THE MAJORITY OF USERS AND MONEY*. And Tivo,
by spending a year dorking around with TivoToGo, has pretty much decided
they don't care about that market segment.

I think that's a huge mistake.


In your case, crap or not, it is the only one that will do the job you
want, and for that it (hopefully) works "well enough" for you and I
really do hope you enjoy it.



I can't say I "enjoy" it, as compared to my Tivos. But I do enjoy
watcing time shifted HD programming.

Well, there's a subtle difference between "crap", and "good enough".
Many of the Tivangelists on this group (and I have been guilty of
being one) preach a line similiar to this:

"Cable Co DVRs are total crap, no one will want to use one".

Some posters do unfortunately say that, and reflexive "buy a Tivo
because your Cable DVR is crap" posts to any non-Tivo DVR comparison or
question is just (or nearly!) as bad as Sean's Tivo bashing. But most
posters do not do this IMO. A disagreement based on reasoned arguments
is usually very interesting to read as long as both parties are
rational. But when one or both sides sound the same horn over and over
again, completely ignoring (or refusing to admit their existance) any
and all criticisms from the other side, the dialogue is of little interest.


Now, this flies in the face of observable data. Apparently, there are
in fact many many many people out there who are willing to pay $5 or
$10/month, with no upfront fees, for a braindead VCR.

I think it's been asserted here several times that the average customer,
when presented with a default choice from their provider, would probably
be perfectly happy with it, especially since they would likely not even
know a better alternative might exist.

I think part of the problem is the self-selecting nature of Tivo users
in general, and this newsgroup in particular. A lot of people here have
multiple Tivos, a network, many have added drives, hacked in TyTools,
ripped MPEGs off a device before TivoToGo, etc, etc, etc.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I would also assert that
many folks here put a lot of value in UI and usability and find those
undervalued in mainstream marketing. Numbers and features look great in
print ads, but when you can't figure out how to make your DVR do
something reliably, the value of those features drop dramatically.


Of *course* those people will think CableCo DVR suck royal ass, and of
*course* those people will never want to use one.

On the other side of the fence are the JoeSixpacks of the world, whose
VCRs still flash 12:00, and who just want to record a few shows. My
parents are in that group. They have an SA Box. They love it. They
don't miss features they've never used.

*THAT SIDE OF THE FENCE HAS THE MAJORITY OF USERS AND MONEY*. And Tivo,
by spending a year dorking around with TivoToGo, has pretty much decided
they don't care about that market segment.

I think that's a huge mistake.

Much of what you say is true here, however I *think* (since neither you
nor I have inside info on TiVo operataions, there's no way to know for
sure) you are making a flawed assumption. You say that Tivo has not
come out with HD and cable card, dual tuners, etc. because they've been
dorking around w/ Tivotogo. If that happens to be true, then I'd agree
w/ you, HD and these other features are more important. However, I
think it's more likely that Tivo has put off the release of updated
hardware because it's waiting for Cable card 2.0 to shake out. Cable
Card 2 is such a huge improvement over Cablecard 1, that it makes sense
to wait, particularly since HD adoption, while accelerating, is still
not wide spread. Unfortunately, since the cable industry wants to avoid
the competition that Cablecard will allow, they are fighting it using
any tactic they can think of.

I will agree that Tivo can only wait so long before coming out w/ the
updated box. Gut feeling tells me that they better come out w/ one
before next year's Superbowl. In fact I see that as a killer release
date, imagine the uptake if Tivo announced and released such a unit 1 or
wks before the Superbowl. I know several people who wouldn't watch the
game unless it was being DVR'ed.

Randy S.

Eric J. Holtman ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
On the other side of the fence are the JoeSixpacks of the world, whose
VCRs still flash 12:00, and who just want to record a few shows. My
parents are in that group. They have an SA Box. They love it. They
don't miss features they've never used.

I think the #1 "feature" missing from most HD cable DVRs is a hard drive
that can store a reasonable amount of programming. An example: most people
with HD cable DVRs could barely record the Super Bowl in HD, and could not
record the whole HD spectacle of that day (about 7 hours).

With even one HD show per day, go out of town for a week and you start
having shows erased on a HD cable DVR. But, it seems that 30 hours will
be the starting point for HD TiVos...that would easily handle 3 weeks at one
show per day.

And, despite the fact that only a small percentage of TiVo owners increase
their drive space, the fact of the matter is that it is easy to do and
relatively cheap. Cable companies will be having some real issues when
they find out their hardware must be completely replaced to support more
than 13 hours of HD recording (the Motorola boxes use a old IDE controller
with support for only one drive and no LBA48).

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/99/Apr/columbine.html

newsgroup to crapflood...or maybe it'll just assume room temperature as a
result of some STD it picked up in a bathroom stall at the last Village
People concert and spare all of Usenet.

Amen :)

Randy S. ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Unfortunately, since the cable industry wants to avoid
the competition that Cablecard will allow, they are fighting it using
any tactic they can think of.

Strangely enough, it's not the competition that worries them...it's the
money.

The same rules that say "cable company follow specification X, Y, Z to
allow CableCard to work" also say that the cable company-supplied equipment
must also use CableCard. I think the cutoff date for the switch is sometime
this year. The idea is that there would be no way for the cable company
to get an unfair advantage over 3rd-party devices if the CC devices also
used CableCard. That part is nice, but the expense for cable companies
is huge. *Every* digital cable box and DVR will have to be swapped out.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/BabyBlues/OnTheRemote.gif

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:39:01 -0600, Lazarus Long
wrote:



Honest to pete, this isn't splitting the atom, I'd use a SA DVR if
they'd get the damn thing work right.


Excactly.

You are just like me. I have Comcast which has a great product. far
superior to Tivo. I've heard others say good things about the lates SA
product but I don't have first hand experience.

Don't worry. Your cable company will get it right soon. It's
not splitting the atom.

Sean