Bob Miller wrote:
Is that all you could find? That old chestnut? I am sure that by now
that "engineer" is truly embarrassed by this interview at least with
other knowledgeable engineers.


There you go again, bob. Sorry, but physics doesn't lie. You do.

Matthew

http://www.directsatellites.co.uk/Aerials.htm

Everybody's LOL at the datacasting dork.

Charles Tieman wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:13:09 -0500, "Matthew L. Martin"
wrote:


Charles Tieman wrote:

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:18:36 -0500, "Matthew L. Martin"


fog, with"terrain shielding and multipath", with "atmospheric
particulates". We are warned that frequent dropouts are to be
expected.

How good is your OTA on NTSC stations?



OTA analog is terrible, which is why 99% of the people living here
went to cable or satellite years ago. And why there would be a big big
market for OTA DTV if it was reliable.



For me, it works well most of the time, but I wouldn't want
to depend on it. I'm keeping my local station service on Directv.

So, for all of the "problems" you cite, you say that it works well most
of the time. The fellow you are defending says it never works, it is
fatally flawed and the modulation scheme is the reason that consumers
aren't buying HD.



Yes, it works well most of time. And it doesn't work at all some of
the time. Not good enough!!


You should note that he has been 100% wrong in his predictions. He also
argues frequenty that physics is wrong.



He says that does he? I have a PhD in Chemistry with a minor in
physics. I hadn't noticed that he has done that. I certainly haven't
heard much in the way of science from his detractors.

charlie

When I say that 8-VSB does not work I mean it does not work well enough
for anyone in broadcasting to take it seriously or base the survival of
their business on it. Witness the mad scramble by broadcaster this last
few weeks. They have staked their very survival NOT ON HDTV but on MUST
CARRY OF MULTICASTING!!!

Wake up gentlemen. Broadcasters are in a heavy sweat and have all their
guns trained on DC today because they DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE ANY
FUTURE if they depend on OTA 8-VSB or HDTV. There GREAT HOPE is to be
able to deliver SD, lots of it, to cable.

Yes 8-VSB works fine for some, not enough, and with 5th gen it will work
very well for most, STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH and certainly not an excuse
for wasting the last 7 years and lots of money and time by early adopters.

I have often acknowledged that 8-VSB works fine for some. In some areas
maybe up to 75% like Dallas or Houston. But even 75% is nowhere near
where it MUST be to be successful and when there is a perfectly good
modulation that would guarantee 99% fixed and even mobile reception why
do we have to sacrifice 25% of viewers ability to receive free OTA TV on
spectrum that belongs to all of us??

NO one will answer that simple question.

Broadcasters, retailers and manufacturers are crawling all over OTA in
the UK and other countries making money and watching in amazement as
consumers flock to buy OTA receivers in every increasing numbers. While
here in the US we only hear the false lamenting and gnashing of teeth by
broadcasters looking for a free ride on cable.

Bob Miller

Jeff Rife wrote:

Bob Miller ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:

Hey attack dog Mark, here is one. He claims Baltimore is great because
he get reception 50 miles away. The poor slobs who actually live in
Baltimore have a different reality.


Yes, they do. They might have to use a rotator because the are much
closer to the towers. For me, the 3 tower groupings can be seen with an
antenna in one position. People much closer will have 3 distinct compass
headings for each group. This has a very large effect on reception with
any kind of directional antenna.

Once they point the antenna correctly, though, they have an even easier time
locking on to the signal.

How ridiculous. Even close to the transmitter you have to use a
directional antenna to avoid multipath. Insane!!! You should be able to
pick up all signals in the City of Baltimore with a omni antenna the
size of a tootpick or actually with the bare end of a coax. You sure can
with COFDM.

Nothing like changing channels with a rotor.

Bob Miller

Berlin has a 99% indoor reception
rate with COFDM and the simplest antennas while in New York 8-VSB has
maybe 25%.

So BOB, you're saying that 75% (seventy five percent) of the people that try to
receive 8VSB OTA HD in the N.Y. area can not. Is that right BOB? Provide us
with the facts and the INDEPENDENT report that corroborates that. Frankly BOB,
just as with most of the things you say, I'd bet the bank that is an outright
LIE.....nothing new for you.

COFDM worked, 8-VSB doesn't.

Right BOB, just like XM radio that relies heavily on COFDM repeaters. You know
BOB, those COFDM repeaters that have made MANY XM radio listener go back to FM.
Great stuff BOB.

One of the key problems is that the sales of OTA receivers and
integrated HD sets is so bad that the CEA obfuscates or doesn't report
true or any numbers.

When will you EVER be honest about this BOB. There is an integrated 8VSB
receiver in EVERY SINGLE HD satellite receiver sold. BOB, when will you be
HONEST about this? Never? I thought so. Man, what a slimeball you are.

Most talk is of cable and satellite now when they are not
moaning about not being able to get a 5th gen receiver.

That's utter nonsense BOB. When you go to the AVS forum, you go to the Local HD
Reception section. There you will find the vast majority of people receiving
gorgeous 8VSB reception. I've been on AVS for several years and know for a fact
that you have just told yet another lie. Do people have problems? Of course
they do, but most are able to get them straightened out. In FACT BOB, most
problems are traced back to stations still broadcasting at low power levels.
Such is the case in N.Y. with the recently installed combiner at the ESB. I
think you know this damn well, but your lying, embellishing ways don't ever
tell the WHOLE truth. You are a slimy little man.

OTA is dead long
die OTA they sing.

Yet ANOTHER BOB lie. You may be setting a record for just ONE post. If it's
dead BOB, how come I get glorious 8VSB reception almost 35 miles from the ESB
from every single HD station (with the exception of PBS which is broadcasting
at an extremely low power). SHAME BOB, SHAME!!!!

I say that New York should be allowed to use a modulation that
works.

Oh they do BOB, it's called 8VSB. The one that doesn't work in N.Y. and is
laden with dropouts is called COFDM. Anyone got an XM radio? Yes BOOBY, you
remain our Resident Snake Oil Salesman. I wonder what a shrink would say about
a guy that continually comes back for more abuse when he's caught in lie after
lie after lie? Is that a neurosis or a pyschosis? I suspect a psychosis.

Thanks charlie

Congrats BOB!!!! You finally found a friend!!! See, there is someone out there
that believes your ****.

Could you list a lie I have been caught at please? Simple assertions are
not very persuasive.

I'll help Matt out here BOB. In just one post you said:
* 8VSB is dead (it's not)
* 75% of the people can't get 8VSB (lie)
* Antennas with rotors won't help with 8VSB (they do).....need I go on BOB?
Yes, you are indeed a slimy LIAR.

Vidguy7 ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
Most talk is of cable and satellite now when they are not
moaning about not being able to get a 5th gen receiver.

That's utter nonsense BOB. When you go to the AVS forum, you go to the Local HD
Reception section. There you will find the vast majority of people receiving
gorgeous 8VSB reception. I've been on AVS for several years and know for a fact
that you have just told yet another lie. Do people have problems? Of course
they do, but most are able to get them straightened out. In FACT BOB, most
problems are traced back to stations still broadcasting at low power levels.

In the past week, the #1 problem seems to be PSIP, as stations get this
requirement up and running right at the deadline.

Since PSIP has nothing to do with reception (only channel/sub-channel mapping
and guide data), this would happen no matter what modulation scheme was used.
Similar problems happen to cable customers when the cable company moves
digital cable channels around...user boxes often need re-booted to figure
things out.

The funny thing is that my older ATSC receivers are more tolerant of bad
or missing PSIP, since they were first introduced at a time when PSIP was
almost non-existent. Still, all 4 of my ATSC receivers (from the DTC-100
up to the DirecTV HR10-250) have no problems, even though other people in
the area are having some PSIP issues with a couple of channels.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/Chainsaw.gif

Out of 7,987 posts on the AVS forum, AFAICT virtually all of the
problems there with OTA reception are caused by either:
1. Low power transmitters
2. Mapping issues
3. $3.00 rabbit ears in the basement
4. Buildings with aluminum siding.

Next lie please.

Dave, the guy has an utterly endless repetoire of lies.