On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
Proper antenna systems with COFDM are small enough to fit in a cell phone.

Then, why is it that in Tokyo, you are REQUIRED to have an outdoor
rooftop-mounted directional yagi?

Why is it that the BBC's own web page says that you need a rooftop-mounted
antenna?

Bob Miller is a pathological liar. When he doesn't know the facts, he
just makes things up. When he knows a limited set of facts, he puts them
together into complete non-sequitors to create lies.

Bob Miller is particularly fond of quoting articles that do not support
his claims. He's been caught doing this numerous time with English
language articles; he does it even more when there are foreign language
articles with pictures. Unfortunately for Bob, people bother to read the
articles and some even understand the foreign language in question.

There is currently *no* cell phone that receives terrestrial broadcast
COFDM based television. Nor are there any announced cell phones that do
so.

There are cell phones in Japan that receive *analog* television (just as
poorly as the 1988 vintage Casio TV-400 series), and there are cell phones
which receive digital video content from W-CDMA cell phone providers at
15fps. The latter may be terrestrial, and it may be digital, and (as it
has audio and video) is arguably television; but it is most assuredly not
the terrestrial digital television which is available experimentally in
Tokyo.

Even battery-powered portable digital TVs are at least two years in the
future in Japan. Digital TV reception is a big problem. Even less than 2
miles from the transmitter with an outdoor antenna, frequent pixellation
occurs. The service area doesn't even cover all of Tokyo municipality,
much less any suburbs.

Nor is the programming on terrestrial digital TV in Japan particularly
interesting yet. The newspapers don't even bother to list it yet. Most
Japanese who have HDTV subscribe to satellite, which *is* listed in the
newspapers.

None of this is to imply that COFDM is a worse choice than 8-VSB for
Japan. Almost the entire population of Japan lives in densely populated
cities, generally on the coastline. Their population is about half the
US, and less than 30% of Japan's landmass (on four large islands and
numerous small ones) is inhabitable. Mountainous terrain limits the
broadcast area. Consequently, COFDM probably does work better there.

Nevertheless, it is nonsense to imply, as pathological liar Bob Miller has
done, that this renders COFDM "better" than 8-VSB for use in North
America; nor does it create products that exist only in Bob Miler's
psychotic imagination.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:43:59 GMT, Bob Miller
wrote:

Tim Keating wrote:

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 03:45:49 GMT, Bob Miller
wrote:

Matthew L. Martin wrote:

Bob Miller wrote:

"Most people" is not enough for a working system I am afraid. As is
evident after these last 7 years of stagnation


In that case, you should give up your harebrained scheme to display
8-VSB with COFDM since that won't cover most people in the US due to the
increased power required to be competitive in the far field.

Matthew

Well the Chinese who recently tested the latest COFDM receivers with the
latest algorithms say that COFDM is 2.5 db better than 8-VSB.


As the europeans are finding out the hard way, all the lab testing
in the world doesn't equal squat in the real world. China claims to
be deploying a hybrid DMB-T using 8Mhz channel bandwidth.

The only place that the supposed and past tense 2 to 4 db of advantage
8-VSB had over COFDM was in LAB TEST. In the real world country after

1.) COFDM's S/N floor varies based on bit rate and bandwidth.

country that picked COFDM could not find this difference. I agree with
you "all the lab testing in the world doesn't equal squat in the real
world". And now that lab testing that doesn't mean "squat" says that

Obviously , since they did not factor in the REAL WORLD impulse
noise into the equation.

COFDM has the advantage by 2.5 db anyway.

ATSC HDTV broadcasts using COFDM will always will be at a 5dB S/N
Disadvantage when compared with 8VSB in the US (6Mhz) markets.

2.) And that's not counting the extra 10 to 15dB S/N ratio COFDM
needs to overcome local impulse noise sources and deliver reliable
residential service.


The hard way? Selling all the receivers they can make? Pace pulled out
of the market in the UK because there are so many players profit margins
have shrunk. 25% of purchases of OTA COFDM receivers are people buying
second, third and fourth receivers as gifts or for other TV sets.

The test that China did were as near to 19.3 Mbps as possible for HD
which is what a US 6 MHz channel can handle.

Comparing a 8Mhz COFDM channel with data rate supplied by a 6Mhz
8VSB channel. That's an (item #1) Apples and Oranges comparison Bob.


The US is limited to 6Mhz channel widths and has thousands of
pre-existing TV stations already on the air. (A Huge Difference).

China has thousand of pre-existing TV stations on the air, I don't get

So, a quick search of the FCC's TV database indicates that their
are 21,426 TV stations listed.

your point. 6 MHz is a non issue when considering what is that best
modulation. 8-VSB does not offer some advantage in a 6 MHz channel that

A 6Mhz channel width has everything to do with and orderly (H)DTV
transition in the US. Nearly every TV receiver ever sold in the US
and Canada uses 6Mhz channel widths. Even the US cable TV channels are
in 6 Mhz increments.

Personally, I don't care what other countries use. And for the
most part, they don't have ANY OTA (H)DTV broadcasts, because of
items #1 and #2.

COFDM does not.

8VSB in 8Mhz channel could go upwards of 30Mbits/sec without
changing its S/N noise floor. Not so with COFDM, (see item #1).


Lastly, you forgot to add in that COFDM needs an extra 10 to 15dB
S/N to overcome local impulse noise sources. (Something one doesn't
find out until they do a wide scale consumer deployment, and the
neighbors start using their newly purchased vacuum cleaners.)

That did happen in 1999 and 2000 with a bad design for the first 2K
DVB-T receivers in the UK. Couldn't have been too bad since they sold a
lot of them and people still use them.

And is still happening today. It's the parallel nature of COFDM
carriers that works against it. It simultaneously xmits on hundreds
if not thousands of carriers at the same time.. An impulse noise
event of sufficient duration corrupts them all simultaneously. No
way around that problem other than to xmit the same data patterns over
and over again.

COFDM's problem with reoccuring impulse noise especially problematic,
since it also corrupts subsequent retransmissions.

Later designs have eliminated
impulse noise as a problem. I can get 8-VSB to blink by simply turning a

^^^^^^^ you don't own a (H)DTV.. therefore it's Unlikely that you
have an ATSC 8-VSB receiver.

As for what you claim to have, list the make, model, and exact
overall configuration for each transmitter and receiver. I'll bet
dollars to donuts that you rigged results and are comparing apples to
oranges AGAIN.

fluorescent light on and off near a receiver. Something my COFDM
receiver has no problem with.

Considering your COFDM receiver is probably right next to your
transmitter you probably won't have a problem impulse noise. It's a
S/N ratio thing. Increase the distance between the two (dropping S/N
ratio) and CODFM's problem with impulse noise grows exponentially.


...Snip the rest of bob's rants..

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Mudd Bug wrote:
I guess me and the only other two people I know who have tried OTA are
just unlucky, 100% are in your 25%. With your success rate at least one
would be working just fine, but that is just not the case.

A sample space of two is not statistically significant.

Recall the gambler's fallacy. If you flip a fair coin twice and it comes
up heads both times, that doesn't mean that it is more likely that it will
come up tails the next time.

If you can not understand this, then I strongly advise you not to go to a
casino, as people who do not understand statistics are their lawful prey.

Like I posted some months ago, A salesman at a high end store said that
about half of their installs cannot receive OTA, and he look puzzled as
to why.

Anecdotal evidence is worthless without additional information, especially
when you are reporting the statement of a third party that the figure is
"about" such-and-such.

In order to be useful, we need a statistically significant sample size of
*all* the shops installs, and reports of success and failure from *each*
of these. Note the emphasized words; anything less than all of the
installs biases the data. Shops get more feedback from unhappy customers
than from happy customers. Consequently, data based upon customer
feedback is biased.

Next, even if the 50% figure is accurate, the report omits such critical
information as location. For example, a shop selling HDTV systems in
Anchorage probably will have such a low rate; there isn't much HDTV in
Anchorage, and the mountains and forests which surround Anchorage greatly
impact TV receiption outside of the urban center.

If you fail to consider all such factors, you're doing the same thing that
Psycho Bob Miller the pathological liar does when he acts like New York
City and its conditions are the thing that counts for the entire country.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

David wrote:
"BobT" wrote


I realize many on this group are in the "get bob" camp, but it is a
good idea to at least stay close to the truth. Check Google, there
are several of Bob's posts that made that statement.

Just for background, 8-VSB works fine for me, surrounded by tall
apartment buildings in Chicago, as it apparently does for you.


Bob, you should be really grateful [as we all should] that we have 8VSB
HDTV.

Bob Miller actually testified against our system in Washington in 2000,
trying to quash its deployment. All simply to line his pockets, as the owner
of a datacasting company. Interesting that he had apparently been accused of
lying, even then.

http://www.broadcast.net/pipermail/d...ly/000137.html


This was a hearing to consider allowing COFDM as well as 8-VSB use in
the US. My testimony was not to squash anything. It was to back up
Sinclair's demonstration that showed conclusively that COFDM was far
superior to 8-VSB. Sinclair was only asking for COFDM to be allowed so
that it could be used in cities like New York and Baltimore where 8-VSB
did not and still does not work. If you want to see how well COFDM works
in New York with the simplest of antennas mobile try this video.

www.viacel.com/bob.wmv

If you have ever wrestled with a rooftop antenna or tried in vain to get
an indoor Silver Sensor to work consider that one of those videos is
working mobile with a 3 inch omni antenna stuck on the roof of this van.

Testifying that one system is far better than the other is not an
attempt to destroy. What has virtually destroyed our DTV transition in
the US is 8-VSB.

Others can read the above account of the testimony if they think anyone
was accusing me of lying and then determine the veracity of David's
comments themselves. If you can't find anything about such an accusation
then I guess David is "lying". Maybe he thinks no one will read what he
post.

Bob Miller

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:18:36 -0500, "Matthew L. Martin"

I will if bob will. So far he has shown absolutely no respect for the
truth therefore he deserves no respect.


This is one strange newsgroup and "truth" is not respected for sure.
Some of you make endless assertions about how wonderful OTA HDTV is,
but, when I read the posts on avsforum for my part of California
served by Sacramento stations, I hear of problems with wind, with
fog, with"terrain shielding and multipath", with "atmospheric
particulates". We are warned that frequent dropouts are to be
expected. For me, it works well most of the time, but I wouldn't want
to depend on it. I'm keeping my local station service on Directv.

Most of you seem to have nothing to contribute but trash talk against
Bob Miller. At least he is giving his version of the situation with
OTA broadcasting and putting his neck out making predictions. I
certainly enjoy hearing from him. Most of the rest of you should find
a life, some of you, like vidguy7, should get back to the books or
you'll never get out of Jr High.

charlie

Mark Crispin ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
In order to be useful, we need a statistically significant sample size of
*all* the shops installs, and reports of success and failure from *each*
of these. Note the emphasized words; anything less than all of the
installs biases the data. Shops get more feedback from unhappy customers
than from happy customers. Consequently, data based upon customer
feedback is biased.

In addition, different installers often end up with different results based
on the skill of the installer. Here in the DC area, there are a few "name"
installers of TV antennas, and one has gotten a horrible rep due to the
fact that their installs don't work well for digital TV, yet other
companies can come through afterward and fix things.

So, if one installer is having a lot of bad luck receiving digital TV on
their installs, that doesn't necessarily mean that digital TV is hard to
receive...it might just mean the installer doesn't know what he is doing.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert...rtTraining.gif

Mark Crispin wrote:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:

Proper antenna systems with COFDM are small enough to fit in a cell
phone.


Then, why is it that in Tokyo, you are REQUIRED to have an outdoor
rooftop-mounted directional yagi?

Now Mark has gone off the deep end. REQUIRED rooftop antennas? Could you
document that one Mark?

Why is it that the BBC's own web page says that you need a
rooftop-mounted antenna?

Probably to cover their asses as many will need such an antenna. The
fact remains that most do not. But if they do wouldn't you expect it?
After all if you add up all the power that all 480 transmitters in use
in the UK you come up with a TOTAL that is a FRACTION of ONE New York
City transmitter with 8-VSB.

Now I have to let you do the math yourself. Here is a list of those 480
transmitters and their ERP power levels. Add them up.

http://www.wolfbane.com/ukdtt.htm

Otherwise Mark will tell you I am making this up. With transmitters as
low a 3 Watts, yes I said 3 Watts, you might expect to need a rooftop
antenna. The fact that most do not is amazing. And what is even more
amazing is that that rooftop antenna that you need in the UK to receive
that 3 Watt transmitters signal probably will not help you in Manhattan
with 8-VSB even with 1,000,000 Watts of power. It just won't work. Now
isn't that AMAZING!!

And remember the 2K COFDM system used in the UK was the first and last
use of such a system. Everyone since uses an 8K version of COFDM. The
British just got carried away and couldn't wait. Still the 2K system
they use is far better than 8-VSB even if it is outmoded.

Bob Miller is a pathological liar. When he doesn't know the facts, he
just makes things up. When he knows a limited set of facts, he puts
them together into complete non-sequitors to create lies.

Bob Miller is particularly fond of quoting articles that do not support
his claims. He's been caught doing this numerous time with English
language articles; he does it even more when there are foreign language
articles with pictures. Unfortunately for Bob, people bother to read
the articles and some even understand the foreign language in question.


You have never "caught" me doing any such thing Mark. You just keep
making unsubstantiated remarks with nothing to back it up.
Show me an English article or even a Japanese one where I was misquoting
PLEASE! Come on try to back up something.

There is currently *no* cell phone that receives terrestrial broadcast
COFDM based television. Nor are there any announced cell phones that do
so.

This is incredible. There are lots of announced COFDM terrestrial DTV
cell phones, there are lots of working prototypes and by now there may
be ones on the market in S. Korea.

There are cell phones in Japan that receive *analog* television (just as
poorly as the 1988 vintage Casio TV-400 series), and there are cell
phones which receive digital video content from W-CDMA cell phone
providers at 15fps. The latter may be terrestrial, and it may be
digital, and (as it has audio and video) is arguably television; but it
is most assuredly not the terrestrial digital television which is
available experimentally in Tokyo.

All true but there are also terrestrial DTV cell phones both in Europe,
Japan and S. Korea. Also in the US where Crown Castle is testing them in
Pittsburgh. DVB-H in Europe and Pittsburgh, ISDB-T in Japan and T-DMB in
S. Korea are all cell phone COFDM DTV receiver realities.

Even battery-powered portable digital TVs are at least two years in the
future in Japan. Digital TV reception is a big problem. Even less than
2 miles from the transmitter with an outdoor antenna, frequent
pixellation occurs. The service area doesn't even cover all of Tokyo
municipality, much less any suburbs.

The coverage is as this site says it is unless Mark can come up with
some fantasy coverage map of his own or suggest why this site is in error.

And the data at this site seems pretty convincing. Maybe Mark can
explain this also.

http://www.dibeg.org/news/news-3/news-e3.htm
"...indicating that digital terrestrial sets are becoming an
increasingly popular option in flat panel TVs." People are buying this
sets with the "option" of picking one with a terrestrial receiver. The
radical increase in sales is attributable to terrestrial DTV since
satellite was available before and sales were flat.

Another quote at 22/10/2004 at this site about cell phone receivers....

"Encoding was in MPEG4 AVC/ITU-T H.264 format, and observers used mobile
phone type receivers developed by KDDI/Hitachi and portable receivers
developed by Sony to receive broadcasts for portable terminals while in
moving vehicles. Japanese broadcasters plan to launch commercial
broadcasts aimed at portable terminals by the end of FY2005, using the
format employed in this trial."

There is also a picture of such a cell phone held up by a man who has a
small form factor screen in his other hand which is also shown close up
below that.

Nor is the programming on terrestrial digital TV in Japan particularly
interesting yet. The newspapers don't even bother to list it yet. Most
Japanese who have HDTV subscribe to satellite, which *is* listed in the
newspapers.

Its one year old. How good was OTA HD in 1999 in the US after one year?

None of this is to imply that COFDM is a worse choice than 8-VSB for
Japan. Almost the entire population of Japan lives in densely populated
cities, generally on the coastline. Their population is about half the
US, and less than 30% of Japan's landmass (on four large islands and
numerous small ones) is inhabitable. Mountainous terrain limits the
broadcast area. Consequently, COFDM probably does work better there.

It does!!

Nevertheless, it is nonsense to imply, as pathological liar Bob Miller
has done, that this renders COFDM "better" than 8-VSB for use in North
America; nor does it create products that exist only in Bob Miler's
psychotic imagination.

No I never said that Japan's choice of COFDM was the main evidence that
WE should also use COFDM. I said that the fact that most countries in
the world have chosen COFDM lends credence to the fact that WE should
also have chosen it. That includes China, Russia all of Europe,
Australia, Hong Kong, Taiwan etc.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Mark calls me a liar. One big lie he claims I tell is that the world
will soon be awash in DTV receiving cell phones. Why he is in denial on
this simple fact that is reported daily in some paper or TV news report
and is all over the Internet I don't know. It is irrational.

Yes there are analog TV receivers in cell phones and yes there are cell
phones that do 15 fps over CDMA or other 3G cell phone networks.

I am talking and Mark denies the existence of cell phones that will
receive actual DTV transmissions with separate COFDM receivers on board.

Here is some info you can check out. Maybe just this once Mark will
check it out and show where I have gone wrong.

There are three going on four DTV COFDM modulations that will do or are
doing COFDM DTV OTA to cell phone receivers.

T-DMB in S. Korea which uses 1.25 MHz of DAB spectrum to deliver mobile
video to cell phones. The COFDM modulation used is Eureka 147.

ISDB-T does COFDM using part of there spectrum for delivery to cell
phones. That was documented above.

DVB-H COFDM is used in Europe and prototypes are being tested and
demonstrated and have been now for over a year. A test is ongoing in
Pittsburgh as well by Crown Castle.

This is a story about a Nokia COFDM DVB-H DTV cell phone receiver.
http://www.wolfbane.com/ukdtt.htm

DVB-SCENE articles
http://www.dvb.org/documents/newslet...11%20final.pdf

"One terminal used in the pilot is the Nokia 7700 Media Device with a
special prototype DVB-H receiver supplement. Philips is providing the
second prototype terminal, this being a portable consumer device capable
of receiving both the conventional DVB-T based TV programmes as well
as the new DVB-H based services."

"Dublin this year, explaining the motivation behind DVB-H development,
Jukka Henriksson, chairman of the DVB-H project, put it simply: “TV is
the biggest
medium, and the last one missing from mobile phones.”
In Europe, DVB-H is gravitating inexorably into mobile phones."

"Chris Carter, marketing manager of satellite and terrestrial business
in the set-top division at STMicroelectronics, has said, “Nothing stops
US operators
from embracing DVB-H.” Nothing, perhaps, but a lack of imagination in a
country known the world over for ‘good old American ingenuity’."

Of course we know that Crown Castle and Qualcomm have that ingenuity.

Notice of Nokia and Crown Castle test in Pittsburg...
http://press.nokia.com/PR/200411/970383_5.html

"DVB-H technology is being piloted in the United States by Crown Castle
and Nokia. The pilot has started in October in the Pittsburgh, PA, area
and it aims to prove and test the feasibility of DVB-H technology and
related service systems in the United States."

http://press.nokia.com/PR/200411/966982_5.html

"The pilot has started in October in the Pittsburgh, PA, area and it
aims to prove and test the feasibility of DVB-H technology and related
service systems in the United States. Later on, the pilot will be
expanded to test consumer experiences and acceptance of mobile phone TV
service."

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6768

"Unless severe problems emerge in the trials now under way in the US and
Europe, the momentum behind DVB-H seems unstoppable. Motorola, NEC,
Siemens, Sony-Ericsson, Samsung, Nokia, O2 and NTL expect to kick off
DVB-H services in 2006."

I"n the UK, the mobile network O2 will start using DVB-H next year,
despite having paid £4 billion for a 3G licence in April 2000. Nine
transmitters near Oxford operated by NTL, the Australian-owned company
that runs the UK’s independent TV transmitters, will broadcast 16
channels on a spare TV frequency."

"From 2006, mobile phones will be offering crisp, clear TV pictures. But
the pictures will not be coming over the cellphone network - they will
be sent from transmitters already used for TV broadcasts. And this means
a completely new breed of phones will be necessary to pick them up."

http://cellphones.engadget.com/entry/1234000483023527/

http://www.edtnscandinavia.com/print...icle_path=/tek

A lot of stuff here
http://www.dailywireless.org/modules...ticle&sid=3048

"Korean vendors claim that they have leapfrogged Europe by completing
T-DMB. It is designed to beam digital TV broadcasts to handheld devices
— including mobile phones, PDAs and portable TV sets. "

"Data-intensive, mobile applications may be better served by DTV or
dedicated broadcast carriers (like Crown Castle's 1.4 GHz band), say
industry observers.

Crown Castle says it already has the spectrum it needs to provide DVB-H
broadcasts. Last year, Crown Castle quietly won a government auction,
paying $12 million for an exclusive terrestrial license to use 5 MHz of
U.S. L-band spectrum which extends from 1440 - 1790 MHz. It was
previously used for weather balloon and weather satellite down-linking.

The company has deployed DVB-H technology in a three-site,
single-frequency network trial in Pittsburgh, according to EE Times."

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/June2004/7916.htm

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...on_dvbh_shows/

Charles Tieman wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:18:36 -0500, "Matthew L. Martin"

I will if bob will. So far he has shown absolutely no respect for the
truth therefore he deserves no respect.



This is one strange newsgroup and "truth" is not respected for sure.
Some of you make endless assertions about how wonderful OTA HDTV is,
but, when I read the posts on avsforum for my part of California
served by Sacramento stations, I hear of problems with wind, with
fog, with"terrain shielding and multipath", with "atmospheric
particulates". We are warned that frequent dropouts are to be
expected.

How good is your OTA on NTSC stations?

For me, it works well most of the time, but I wouldn't want
to depend on it. I'm keeping my local station service on Directv.

So, for all of the "problems" you cite, you say that it works well most
of the time. The fellow you are defending says it never works, it is
fatally flawed and the modulation scheme is the reason that consumers
aren't buying HD.

Most of you seem to have nothing to contribute but trash talk against
Bob Miller. At least he is giving his version of the situation with
OTA broadcasting and putting his neck out making predictions.

You should note that he has been 100% wrong in his predictions. He also
argues frequenty that physics is wrong.

I
certainly enjoy hearing from him.

Care to say why someone who has been caught out in lies as often as bob
has been is worth listening to?


--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
ink.net...

Bob Miller actually testified against our system in Washington in 2000,
trying to quash its deployment. All simply to line his pockets, as the
owner of a datacasting company. Interesting that he had apparently been
accused of lying, even then.

http://www.broadcast.net/pipermail/d...ly/000137.html


This was a hearing to consider allowing COFDM as well as 8-VSB use in the
US.

Which would have ruined our USA HDTV.
"Honey, we have to buy another different receiver to watch that
show.......".

My testimony was not to squash anything.

It was to line your pockets, incredibly obviously.

It was to back up Sinclair's demonstration that showed conclusively that
COFDM was far superior to 8-VSB.

What a shame your cofdm plan lost so conclusively. Besides, everyone now at
Sinclair considers you a crazy, ridiculous outcast. Why do you seem to get a
kick out of being disgraced?


Sinclair was only asking for COFDM to be allowed so that it could be used
in cities like New York and Baltimore where 8-VSB did not and still does
not work.

Typical Bob Miller crazy lie.

If you want to see how well COFDM works in New York with the simplest of
antennas mobile try this video.

What makes you think we care about your 2 year old video?

If you have ever wrestled with a rooftop antenna or tried in vain to get
an indoor Silver Sensor to work consider that one of those videos is
working mobile with a 3 inch omni antenna stuck on the roof of this van.

When you typed that, your wife was behind you screaming, "Turn that goddam
computer off and look for a job!".



Testifying that one system is far better than the other is not an attempt
to destroy.

Attempt to line your pockets at our expense?

What has virtually destroyed our DTV transition in the US is 8-VSB.

LOL

Others can read the above account of the testimony if they think anyone
was accusing me of lying and then determine the veracity of David's
comments themselves. If you can't find anything about such an accusation
then I guess David is "lying". Maybe he thinks no one will read what he
post.

Bob Miller


You don't believe a single word you say.

The only reason you post all these lies is to anger AVS members, because you
correctly [for once] assume some of them attend this newsgroup.

If you want to see how well COFDM works
in New York with the simplest of antennas mobile try this video.

OR, if you want to see how miserable COFDM is, simply drive around N.Y. and
other major cities with an XM radio. After a few days of that, FM will be
looking REALLY good to you.

Testifying that one system is far better than the other is not an
attempt to destroy. What has virtually destroyed our DTV transition in
the US is 8-VSB.

No BOB, what ALMOST destroyed our digital transition was YOU and your kindred
spirits at Sinclair. Stalling tactic after stalling tactic. Everyone new that
Sinclair had ZERO interest in HD and was trying to do whatver they could to
avoid converting their stations to HD. Who do you think you're kidding BOB?
Don't you realize by now that we all have your number. You are despicable.