In uk.media.tv.sky on Mon, 7 Feb 2005, guv wrote :

I cannot understand why these days anyone would wait for a show to get to
SKY.

How about - if you only have a dial-up connection & can't afford
Broadband?

Then you also wont be able to afford $ky or buy the DVDs when they
become available, so presumably not an issue for you either way?

Why would I be on a Sky NG if I didn't have Sky? It's a question of
priorities on a limited budget.

With Sky, I *know* I'll be able to see the shows, along with a whole
load of other programmes that I would watch casually, but not download.
--
Paul 'US Sitcom Fan' Hyett

Tumbleweed wrote:

In that case Jomtien, I hope you never ever either borrowed a tape of a tv
program from a friend (receiving), or even worse taped a program for
someone
(stealing), because otherwise you had better turn yourself in.

That's totally different. That is not copyright theft on a massive
scale.

********. If the first (downloading) is theft, so also is the second. The
scale is a seperate issue.

No. This is the crux of the digital rights management problem.
Depending on where you live in the EU the act of making recordings of
broadcast material for time-slip purposes is either a legal right or
is tolerated. Either way it is restricted to personal use. Downloading
digital copies of material that not been made available for download
in that form by the copyright owner is not legal anywhere in the EU,
AFAIK. The notion of scale and impersonality is also intrinsic to the
legality.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

In that case Jomtien, I hope you never ever either borrowed a tape of a
tv
program from a friend (receiving), or even worse taped a program for
someone
(stealing), because otherwise you had better turn yourself in.

That's totally different. That is not copyright theft on a massive
scale.

********. If the first (downloading) is theft, so also is the second. The
scale is a seperate issue.

No. This is the crux of the digital rights management problem.
Depending on where you live in the EU the act of making recordings of
broadcast material for time-slip purposes is either a legal right or
is tolerated. Either way it is restricted to personal use. Downloading
digital copies of material that not been made available for download
in that form by the copyright owner is not legal anywhere in the EU,
AFAIK. The notion of scale and impersonality is also intrinsic to the
legality.



So its legal if I send it to you as a VHS tape in the post, but not if I
send it to you as bits on a wire? And certainly the episodes of STE I
downloaded were done precisly for time slip purposes. 1episode because I
missed it ("excuse me Jomtien I missed STE last week you didnt happen to
tape it did you?...."sorry I cant lend you that tape because soemone else
alradyy looked at it") and 2 episodes time shifted into the future (as far
as Sky is concerned since they havent shown it yet).

BTW, the notion of scale and impersonality is not intrinsic to the legality,
its only intrinsic as to whether or not anyone can be bothered to prosecute
you for it. But they could do.
--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Tumbleweed wrote:

So its legal if I send it to you as a VHS tape in the post,

No, it isn't. See below.


but not if I
send it to you as bits on a wire? And certainly the episodes of STE I
downloaded were done precisly for time slip purposes.

But the copyright owner didn't make the broadcast available in this
form. Therefore the download is not legal. It is legal (or tolerated)
for *you* to make a copy of a broadcast item on *your* VCR in *your*
house for *your* use.


BTW, the notion of scale and impersonality is not intrinsic to the legality,

Yes, it is. One copy for personal use is OK. Many copies for use by
many is not.


its only intrinsic as to whether or not anyone can be bothered to prosecute
you for it. But they could do.

Depending on where you live.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

So its legal if I send it to you as a VHS tape in the post,

No, it isn't. See below.


but not if I
send it to you as bits on a wire? And certainly the episodes of STE I
downloaded were done precisly for time slip purposes.

But the copyright owner didn't make the broadcast available in this
form. Therefore the download is not legal. It is legal (or tolerated)
for *you* to make a copy of a broadcast item on *your* VCR in *your*
house for *your* use.


BTW, the notion of scale and impersonality is not intrinsic to the
legality,

Yes, it is. One copy for personal use is OK. Many copies for use by
many is not.]

yes but one copy for non-personal use isnt, either, as you said.


its only intrinsic as to whether or not anyone can be bothered to
prosecute
you for it. But they could do.

Depending on where you live.


So you admit you are a lawbreaker as well then?

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Tumbleweed wrote:

Yes, it is. One copy for personal use is OK. Many copies for use by
many is not.]

yes but one copy for non-personal use isnt, either, as you said.

P2P by its very nature is multiple.


Depending on where you live.

So you admit you are a lawbreaker as well then?

I readily admit that I break the law every single day but I'm not
saying which laws.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/6u4p9
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

Yes, it is. One copy for personal use is OK. Many copies for use by
many is not.]

yes but one copy for non-personal use isnt, either, as you said.

P2P by its very nature is multiple.


I suggest you look up what P2P stands for!!!

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com