The thin edge of the wedge?
 

Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal. Does anyone know whether this ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?

ivan wrote:
Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal. Does anyone know whether this ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?

What are you supposed to use instead. A CE marked jet-pack ! ?

"ivan" wrote in message
...
Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal. Does anyone know whether this
ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?


(Sorry for e-mail!)

I don't think window cleaning etc will be illegal.
The important thing is the ladder must be secured.

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/www.h...docs/cd192.pdf

"Dennis Wynes" k wrote in
message ...

"ivan" wrote in message
...
Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political
correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer
cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal. Does anyone know whether this
ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?


(Sorry for e-mail!)

I don't think window cleaning etc will be illegal.
The important thing is the ladder must be secured.

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/www.h...docs/cd192.pdf

That should be

http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/condocs/cd192.pdf

I'm going back to bed!

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:53:36 -0000, ivan wrote:

Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal.

Bloody hell, so you're the viewer! Politics Show (West) actually.

Does anyone know whether this ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?

One presumes so. I think the HSE have decided ladders are unsafe and
people must be banned from using them.

"ivan" wrote in message
...
Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal. Does anyone know whether this
ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?



amazingly it looks like it's true !

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/forum/1289760801.html

D.

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
ivan wrote:
Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political
correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer
cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal. Does anyone know whether this
ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?

What are you supposed to use instead. A CE marked jet-pack ! ?

I kid you not, the bloke had a huge (heavy?) telescopic plastic pole with a
sponge on the end, which appeared to be a bit of a struggle for both himself
and the 'Lady' interviewer when they both attempted to drop it onto the
pavement. It looked to me like a ladder represented less of a health and
safety hazard!

The EU directive text regarding the use of ladders says:
Page 137

Quote: 4.2.1. Ladders must be so positioned as to ensure their stability
during use. Portable ladders must rest on a stable, strong, suitably-sized,
immobile footing so that the rungs remain horizontal. Suspended ladders must
be attached in a secure manner and, with the exception of rope ladders, so
that they cannot be displaced and so that swinging is prevented.

4.2.2. The feet of portable ladders must be prevented from
slipping during use by securing the stiles at or near their upper or lower
ends, by any anti-slip device or by
any other arrangement of equivalent effectiveness. Ladders used
for access must be long enough to protrude sufficiently beyond the access
platform, unless other measures have been taken to ensure a firm handhold.
Interlocking ladders and extension ladders must be used so that the
different sections are prevented from moving relative to one another. Mobile
ladders must be prevented from moving before they are stepped on.

"Paul Ratcliffe" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:53:36 -0000, ivan wrote:

Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political
correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer
cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal.

Bloody hell, so you're the viewer! Politics Show (West) actually.


I did originally see the item during the week on Points West, but was so
full of disbelief that I thought it was a wind-up! so I waited until the
Politics Show to make certain before I posted on the subject.



Does anyone know whether this ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?

One presumes so. I think the HSE have decided ladders are unsafe and
people must be banned from using them.

"Ade" wrote in message
...
The EU directive text regarding the use of ladders says:
Page 137

Quote: 4.2.1. Ladders must be so positioned as to ensure their stability
during use. Portable ladders must rest on a stable, strong, suitably-sized,
immobile footing so that the rungs remain horizontal. Suspended ladders must
be attached in a secure manner and, with the exception of rope ladders, so
that they cannot be displaced and so that swinging is prevented.

Hrm, why would the 'operative' about to climb the ladder fail to check any of
the above, or wilfully put himself in danger? Seems like a vague way of
legislating common sense.


Az.

"Ade" wrote in message
...
The EU directive text regarding the use of ladders says:
Page 137

Quote: 4.2.1. Ladders must be so positioned as to ensure their stability
during use. Portable ladders must rest on a stable, strong,
suitably-sized,
immobile footing so that the rungs remain horizontal. Suspended ladders
must
be attached in a secure manner and, with the exception of rope ladders, so
that they cannot be displaced and so that swinging is prevented.

4.2.2. The feet of portable ladders must be prevented from
slipping during use by securing the stiles at or near their upper or lower
ends, by any anti-slip device or by
any other arrangement of equivalent effectiveness. Ladders
used
for access must be long enough to protrude sufficiently beyond the access
platform, unless other measures have been taken to ensure a firm handhold.
Interlocking ladders and extension ladders must be used so that the
different sections are prevented from moving relative to one another.
Mobile
ladders must be prevented from moving before they are stepped on.




166 pages of waffle, which from a layman's point of view is vague and
difficult to interpret, why don't they just cut to the chase and say what is
and is not illegal in a single page. I'm quoting verbatim from the actual
programme..."Yes it is a European directive, and as from next summer
cleaning windows from a ladder will be illegal".

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:00:21 +0000, ivan wrote:

[SNIP]

166 pages of waffle, which from a layman's point of view is vague and
difficult to interpret, why don't they just cut to the chase and say what is
and is not illegal in a single page. I'm quoting verbatim from the actual
programme..."Yes it is a European directive, and as from next summer
cleaning windows from a ladder will be illegal".

Sounds like that none existent meat hygiene regulation that the
Conservatives where harking on about a couple of months ago.

The problem with the press in this country is they like to take any E.U.
directive out of all context, and exaggerate them as much as they can.
What we have here is a commonsense directive about safe working at heights
i.e. above floor/ground level. They are legislating that you must follow
best practise. Only a fool hard idiot or someone being pressured by a
boss that wants to cut corners would do otherwise. All I see here is
better protection for workers.

Move along, no story and nothing to see.

JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195

This is a bit irrelevant, but I'm curious.
I always thought it was "the thin end of the wedge". It seems that
"edge" is used a lot. It sounds a bit odd to me, the rhyme sounds
clunky.

Discuss...

Lakeuk wrote:




amazingly it looks like it's true !

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/forum/1289760801.html

Nothing surprises me with the E.U. they are a bunch of unelected prats.

Aztech wrote:

Quote: 4.2.1. Ladders must be so positioned as to ensure their stability
during use. Portable ladders must rest on a stable, strong, suitably-sized,
immobile footing so that the rungs remain horizontal. Suspended ladders must
be attached in a secure manner and, with the exception of rope ladders, so
that they cannot be displaced and so that swinging is prevented.


Hrm, why would the 'operative' about to climb the ladder fail to check any of
the above, or wilfully put himself in danger? Seems like a vague way of
legislating common sense.


Because they like to think they got control, they bring in laws for the
sake of bringing them in.
this is the way those lot in the E.u works.

"Jonathan Buzzard" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:00:21 +0000, ivan wrote:

[SNIP]

166 pages of waffle, which from a layman's point of view is vague and
difficult to interpret, why don't they just cut to the chase and say
what is
and is not illegal in a single page. I'm quoting verbatim from the
actual
programme..."Yes it is a European directive, and as from next summer
cleaning windows from a ladder will be illegal".

Sounds like that none existent meat hygiene regulation that the
Conservatives where harking on about a couple of months ago.

The problem with the press in this country is they like to take any E.U.
directive out of all context, and exaggerate them as much as they can.
What we have here is a commonsense directive about safe working at heights
i.e. above floor/ground level. They are legislating that you must follow
best practise. Only a fool hard idiot or someone being pressured by a
boss that wants to cut corners would do otherwise. All I see here is
better protection for workers.

Move along, no story and nothing to see.

So what you're saying is that after next summer window cleaners can carry on
as normal and raise two fingers to the new legislation.. i.e. "if I want to
risk 'my own neck' by climbing up a ladder, 'that's my business' and
absolutely nothing to do with you old chum"?



JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195

ivan wrote:
]
So what you're saying is that after next summer window cleaners can carry on
as normal and raise two fingers to the new legislation.. i.e. "if I want to
risk 'my own neck' by climbing up a ladder, 'that's my business' and
absolutely nothing to do with you old chum"?


It is right, it is up to the person on the ladder as long as they are
not forced into it.
Too many laws being put into force for our own good.
Well they think it is for our own good.

"Ad C" wrote in message
...
ivan wrote:
]
So what you're saying is that after next summer window cleaners can
carry on
as normal and raise two fingers to the new legislation.. i.e. "if I want
to
risk 'my own neck' by climbing up a ladder, 'that's my business' and
absolutely nothing to do with you old chum"?


It is right, it is up to the person on the ladder as long as they are
not forced into it.
Too many laws being put into force for our own good.
Well they think it is for our own good.


Remember that the overwhelming majority of window cleaners are
self-employed, if they have to secure a ladder at every window they have to
clean then the whole thing could well become totally impractical and will
probably put them out of a job, I just can't see how it's going to be
possible to enforce this kind of legislation.

"As I'm sure most will have heard by now, the UK will soon adopt European
Directive 2001/45/EC also known as the Temporary Work at Height Directive.

We have discussed its impact on the window cleaning industry in general,
noting that broadly speaking, later this year the use of Unsecured Ladders
for window cleaning will be against the law.

(A number of other EU member states have gone even further, for example the
Dutch government have banned the use of ladders completely, even for
"Access")"

Ad C wrote:
Lakeuk wrote:




amazingly it looks like it's true !

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/forum/1289760801.html

Nothing surprises me with the E.U. they are a bunch of unelected
prats.

So the elections for European MPs passed you by unnoticed then?
--
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger"
"Then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk
www.sffh.co.uk
www.upce.org.uk

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:28:52 -0000, Dr Zoidberg wrote:



Ad C wrote:
Lakeuk wrote:




amazingly it looks like it's true !

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/forum/1289760801.html

Nothing surprises me with the E.U. they are a bunch of unelected
prats.

So the elections for European MPs passed you by unnoticed then?

Who have very little to do with the stupid directives coming out of
Brussels.

--

Regards

Dave Saville

NB Remove no-spam- for good email address

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:53:36 -0000, "ivan" wrote:

Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal. Does anyone know whether this ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?


Yeah ! In future everyone must live underground, because of the danger of a
meteorite falling on your head.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:49:39 -0000, "ivan"
wrote:


"Ad C" wrote in message
...
ivan wrote:
]
So what you're saying is that after next summer window cleaners can
carry on
as normal and raise two fingers to the new legislation.. i.e. "if I =
want
to
risk 'my own neck' by climbing up a ladder, 'that's my business' and
absolutely nothing to do with you old chum"?


It is right, it is up to the person on the ladder as long as they are
not forced into it.
Too many laws being put into force for our own good.
Well they think it is for our own good.


Remember that the overwhelming majority of window cleaners are
self-employed, if they have to secure a ladder at every window they have=
to
clean then the whole thing could well become totally impractical and =
will
probably put them out of a job, I just can't see how it's going to be
possible to enforce this kind of legislation.

"As I'm sure most will have heard by now, the UK will soon adopt =
European
Directive 2001/45/EC also known as the Temporary Work at Height =
Directive.

We have discussed its impact on the window cleaning industry in general,
noting that broadly speaking, later this year the use of Unsecured =
Ladders
for window cleaning will be against the law.

(A number of other EU member states have gone even further, for example =
the
Dutch government have banned the use of ladders completely, even for
"Access")"


Maybe this new rule is the opportunity for Italian window cleaners to
take over the Eurowinclean market!

Angelo

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:20:33 +0000, ivan wrote:

[SNIP]

So what you're saying is that after next summer window cleaners can carry on
as normal and raise two fingers to the new legislation.. i.e. "if I want to
risk 'my own neck' by climbing up a ladder, 'that's my business' and
absolutely nothing to do with you old chum"?


Except it is something to do with me. Firstly an unsecured ladder that
falls down represents a hazard anyone who happens to be passing at that
moment. Secondly when the stupid idiot who goes up the ladder and then
injures themselves when it falls down, promptly gets whisked off to
hospital in an ambulance, and undergoes treatment all that the expense
of the NHS - i.e. taxpayers expense, and as a taxpayer partly at my
expense.

So there are at least two ways that some idiot climbing an unsecured
ladder has a potential effect on myself if something goes wrong. We live
in a "liberal democracy," which in theory means you can do what ever you
want so long as it does not effect others. Climbing unsecured ladders
does indeed have consequences for others so it is rightly going to be
made illegal.

I also suspect strongly though I have not read the regulation from front
to back, that it only effects people in employment. That is if I am
cleaning my own front window it does not apply.


JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195

In article ,
says...

"Paul Ratcliffe" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:53:36 -0000, ivan wrote:

Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political
correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer
cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal.

Bloody hell, so you're the viewer! Politics Show (West) actually.


I did originally see the item during the week on Points West, but was so
full of disbelief that I thought it was a wind-up! so I waited until the
Politics Show to make certain before I posted on the subject.



Does anyone know whether this ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?

One presumes so. I think the HSE have decided ladders are unsafe and
people must be banned from using them.



I think it must be true as the last time my window cleaner came round,
about 4 weeks ago he had invested in a small van and a pressurised water
system because he is "not allowed to use a ladder anymore".

Not only has he not put his price up he has not done so for more years
than I care to remember. Pretty good going but he has had to upgrade
from a roofrack on his car to a fully kitted out van!!


Ian

ivan wrote:




Remember that the overwhelming majority of window cleaners are
self-employed, if they have to secure a ladder at every window they have to
clean then the whole thing could well become totally impractical and will
probably put them out of a job, I just can't see how it's going to be
possible to enforce this kind of legislation.

It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure a
ladder at people houses?



"As I'm sure most will have heard by now, the UK will soon adopt European
Directive 2001/45/EC also known as the Temporary Work at Height Directive.

We have discussed its impact on the window cleaning industry in general,
noting that broadly speaking, later this year the use of Unsecured Ladders
for window cleaning will be against the law.

(A number of other EU member states have gone even further, for example the
Dutch government have banned the use of ladders completely, even for
"Access")"


this is just typical E.U, trying to think it is important.

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Nothing surprises me with the E.U. they are a bunch of unelected
prats.


So the elections for European MPs passed you by unnoticed then?

It is a farce, they got no or little power, the whole E.U system is a
farce and should be disbanded.
the sooner the better and then maybe we can get on with running our own
country instead of having some foreigner in another country sticking his
big nose where it should not be.

Dave Saville wrote:

So the elections for European MPs passed you by unnoticed then?


Who have very little to do with the stupid directives coming out of
Brussels.


Just there to look good most of the time and to trick the public into
thinking it is democratic.

Jonathan Buzzard wrote:


Except it is something to do with me. Firstly an unsecured ladder that
falls down represents a hazard anyone who happens to be passing at that
moment. Secondly when the stupid idiot who goes up the ladder and then
injures themselves when it falls down, promptly gets whisked off to
hospital in an ambulance, and undergoes treatment all that the expense
of the NHS - i.e. taxpayers expense, and as a taxpayer partly at my
expense.


do you smoke or drink?
do you drive a car?

If you Smoke and drink then any problems you get because of it is paid
for by me a tax payer.

If you drive a car, and have an accident and end up in hospital, that is
also paid for by me.


So there are at least two ways that some idiot climbing an unsecured
ladder has a potential effect on myself if something goes wrong. We live
in a "liberal democracy," which in theory means you can do what ever you
want so long as it does not effect others. Climbing unsecured ladders
does indeed have consequences for others so it is rightly going to be
made illegal.

This is becoming a Nanny state, in fact it is already one and the E.U is
making it worse.
Nothing to do with them.
It is up to our government to make laws, not some stupid tin pot stuck
in Brussels, who no doubt have never been to this country.


I also suspect strongly though I have not read the regulation from front
to back, that it only effects people in employment. That is if I am
cleaning my own front window it does not apply.


for how long?

In article , Ad C
writes

It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure
a ladder at people houses?

Nails, screws, bolts...
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

In article , Ad C
writes

This is becoming a Nanny state, in fact it is already one

No disagreement there.

and the E.U is making it worse.

Certainly agree with that too.

Nothing to do with them.

Err... where have you been for the past 30 odd years?

It is up to our government to make laws, not some stupid tin pot stuck
in Brussels

Actually, your government relinquished the sovereign right to make laws
(except in specifically agreed domains, such as defence) to Brussels
some considerable time ago. Any laws which do not deal with those
specifically excluded areas which your government makes are subservient
to the laws made in Brussels.

If you don't like it, you know who to vote for at the next election, but
with megalomaniacal loonies like Kilroy-Silk on their side, the nutters
in Brussels don't seem quite so bad.
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

Kennedy McEwen wrote:

It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure
a ladder at people houses?

Nails, screws, bolts...

But how many people will want screws, nuts and bolts put into their wall?

Kennedy McEwen wrote:


This is becoming a Nanny state, in fact it is already one


No disagreement there.

and the E.U is making it worse.


Certainly agree with that too.

Nothing to do with them.


Err... where have you been for the past 30 odd years?


Ok, it should not be anything to do with them.


It is up to our government to make laws, not some stupid tin pot
stuck in Brussels


Actually, your government relinquished the sovereign right to make laws
(except in specifically agreed domains, such as defence) to Brussels
some considerable time ago. Any laws which do not deal with those
specifically excluded areas which your government makes are subservient
to the laws made in Brussels.

If you don't like it, you know who to vote for at the next election, but
with megalomaniacal loonies like Kilroy-Silk on their side, the nutters
in Brussels don't seem quite so bad.

I know who to vote for, the way it is going the BNP

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:51:41 +0000, Ad C
wrote:

| ivan wrote:

| Remember that the overwhelming majority of window cleaners are
| self-employed, if they have to secure a ladder at every window they have to
| clean then the whole thing could well become totally impractical and will
| probably put them out of a job, I just can't see how it's going to be
| possible to enforce this kind of legislation.
|
| It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure a
| ladder at people houses?

A few ring bolts under the windows plus a couple of ropes and clips on the
ladder, would cost little, would be OK.
Note to self. Must do it.


--
Dave F

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , Ad C
writes

It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure a
ladder at people houses?

Nails, screws, bolts...
But how do you put the bolts in place without going up the 'unsecured'
ladder?



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.813 / Virus Database: 553 - Release Date: 13/12/2004

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:00:20 GMT, "Vic"
strung together this:

But how do you put the bolts in place without going up the 'unsecured'
ladder?

You hang yourself precariously out of the open window from a wonky
chair whilst in a sort of upside-down-ish position. It's much safer
than a sturdy ladder you know....
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 01:00:21 +0000, Ad C wrote:

Jonathan Buzzard wrote:


Except it is something to do with me. Firstly an unsecured ladder that
falls down represents a hazard anyone who happens to be passing at that
moment. Secondly when the stupid idiot who goes up the ladder and then
injures themselves when it falls down, promptly gets whisked off to
hospital in an ambulance, and undergoes treatment all that the expense
of the NHS - i.e. taxpayers expense, and as a taxpayer partly at my
expense.


do you smoke or drink?
do you drive a car?

If you Smoke and drink then any problems you get because of it is paid
for by me a tax payer.

I don't smoke and I while I do drink alcohol I don't get "drunk".

If you drive a car, and have an accident and end up in hospital, that is
also paid for by me.

I would point out that it is routine for the NHS to recover costs due to
road traffic accidents from peoples insurance. I would further point out
that you don't have to drive any automotive vehicle to be involved in a
road traffic accident.


This is becoming a Nanny state, in fact it is already one and the E.U is
making it worse.
Nothing to do with them.
It is up to our government to make laws, not some stupid tin pot stuck
in Brussels, who no doubt have never been to this country.

And they are better because? That would be the government that the
majority of people in this country voted against.

Please explain why the government in power for my entire adult life has
not received a vote from myself (and I have voted in *every* election
which is quite a few now) is hundreds of miles away, often in a different
country is somehow inalienably better at make new laws than the E.U.?

for how long?

Well the government of England and Wales recently decided that it should
make fox hunting illegal. If you supported that then you have no right
whatsoever to complain about any other law that might intrude into your
private life. Allegedly the majority of people supported the fox hunting
band, so they support the right of the government to make things that have
no effect on others illegal.

JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:51:41 +0000, Ad C wrote:

It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure a
ladder at people houses?

Depends what secure means. To me securing a ladder might just mean
something as simple as this at the base

http://www.ukladder.com/stopper.htm

Similar devices can be had for the top of a ladder as well.

JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195

Dave Fawthrop wrote:

| It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure a
| ladder at people houses?

A few ring bolts under the windows plus a couple of ropes and clips on the
ladder, would cost little, would be OK.
Note to self. Must do it.

If peson who owns the house gives permsiion for it to be done.
I can not see window cleaners really doing that.

Jonathan Buzzard wrote:


I don't smoke and I while I do drink alcohol I don't get "drunk".

You are still at risk even if you do not get drunk.
Before you ask, I do not smoke and I only drink alcohol now and again,
in fact the last drink I had was last year.



If you drive a car, and have an accident and end up in hospital, that is
also paid for by me.


I would point out that it is routine for the NHS to recover costs due to
road traffic accidents from peoples insurance. I would further point out

Only the intial cost, which isthe first time you are admitted to
hospital or seen.

that you don't have to drive any automotive vehicle to be involved in a
road traffic accident.


That is true, I grant you that.



And they are better because? That would be the government that the
majority of people in this country voted against.

Please explain why the government in power for my entire adult life has
not received a vote from myself (and I have voted in *every* election

That is democracy I am afraid.

which is quite a few now) is hundreds of miles away, often in a different
country is somehow inalienably better at make new laws than the E.U.?

Still on this Island and still British.
Our laws may not be better, but at least they are made in our own
country by our own government that can be voted out.


for how long?


Well the government of England and Wales recently decided that it should
make fox hunting illegal. If you supported that then you have no right
whatsoever to complain about any other law that might intrude into your
private life. Allegedly the majority of people supported the fox hunting
band, so they support the right of the government to make things that have
no effect on others illegal.


I agree with the law on Fox hunting, in fact it do not go far enough,
but do not give me crap about peoples right to fox hunt, what about the
foxes rights?

As for Fox hunting being made illegal in England and Wales, the Scottish
parlient also made it illegal in Scotland.

Intruding into peoples lifes to prevent harm to another person or
anaimals is one thing, but intruding into peoples lifes to protect them
is silly.

Jonathan Buzzard wrote:


Depends what secure means. To me securing a ladder might just mean
something as simple as this at the base

http://www.ukladder.com/stopper.htm

Similar devices can be had for the top of a ladder as well.

Which means more costs.
I know Aerial installers are well paid, they bloody charge enough
anyway, window cleaners are not so well paid.