On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:53:36 -0000, "ivan" wrote:

Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal. Does anyone know whether this ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?


Yeah ! In future everyone must live underground, because of the danger of a
meteorite falling on your head.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:49:39 -0000, "ivan"
wrote:


"Ad C" wrote in message
...
ivan wrote:
]
So what you're saying is that after next summer window cleaners can
carry on
as normal and raise two fingers to the new legislation.. i.e. "if I =
want
to
risk 'my own neck' by climbing up a ladder, 'that's my business' and
absolutely nothing to do with you old chum"?


It is right, it is up to the person on the ladder as long as they are
not forced into it.
Too many laws being put into force for our own good.
Well they think it is for our own good.


Remember that the overwhelming majority of window cleaners are
self-employed, if they have to secure a ladder at every window they have=
to
clean then the whole thing could well become totally impractical and =
will
probably put them out of a job, I just can't see how it's going to be
possible to enforce this kind of legislation.

"As I'm sure most will have heard by now, the UK will soon adopt =
European
Directive 2001/45/EC also known as the Temporary Work at Height =
Directive.

We have discussed its impact on the window cleaning industry in general,
noting that broadly speaking, later this year the use of Unsecured =
Ladders
for window cleaning will be against the law.

(A number of other EU member states have gone even further, for example =
the
Dutch government have banned the use of ladders completely, even for
"Access")"


Maybe this new rule is the opportunity for Italian window cleaners to
take over the Eurowinclean market!

Angelo

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:20:33 +0000, ivan wrote:

[SNIP]

So what you're saying is that after next summer window cleaners can carry on
as normal and raise two fingers to the new legislation.. i.e. "if I want to
risk 'my own neck' by climbing up a ladder, 'that's my business' and
absolutely nothing to do with you old chum"?


Except it is something to do with me. Firstly an unsecured ladder that
falls down represents a hazard anyone who happens to be passing at that
moment. Secondly when the stupid idiot who goes up the ladder and then
injures themselves when it falls down, promptly gets whisked off to
hospital in an ambulance, and undergoes treatment all that the expense
of the NHS - i.e. taxpayers expense, and as a taxpayer partly at my
expense.

So there are at least two ways that some idiot climbing an unsecured
ladder has a potential effect on myself if something goes wrong. We live
in a "liberal democracy," which in theory means you can do what ever you
want so long as it does not effect others. Climbing unsecured ladders
does indeed have consequences for others so it is rightly going to be
made illegal.

I also suspect strongly though I have not read the regulation from front
to back, that it only effects people in employment. That is if I am
cleaning my own front window it does not apply.


JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195

In article ,
says...

"Paul Ratcliffe" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:53:36 -0000, ivan wrote:

Watching a local news item on BBC Points West about political
correctness,
it said that because of a European directive, as from next summer
cleaning
windows from a ladder will be illegal.

Bloody hell, so you're the viewer! Politics Show (West) actually.


I did originally see the item during the week on Points West, but was so
full of disbelief that I thought it was a wind-up! so I waited until the
Politics Show to make certain before I posted on the subject.



Does anyone know whether this ruling
(which I didn't even realise existed) will include other trades using
ladders, i.e. people who do electrical work and install aerials and
satellite equipment?

One presumes so. I think the HSE have decided ladders are unsafe and
people must be banned from using them.



I think it must be true as the last time my window cleaner came round,
about 4 weeks ago he had invested in a small van and a pressurised water
system because he is "not allowed to use a ladder anymore".

Not only has he not put his price up he has not done so for more years
than I care to remember. Pretty good going but he has had to upgrade
from a roofrack on his car to a fully kitted out van!!


Ian

ivan wrote:




Remember that the overwhelming majority of window cleaners are
self-employed, if they have to secure a ladder at every window they have to
clean then the whole thing could well become totally impractical and will
probably put them out of a job, I just can't see how it's going to be
possible to enforce this kind of legislation.

It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure a
ladder at people houses?



"As I'm sure most will have heard by now, the UK will soon adopt European
Directive 2001/45/EC also known as the Temporary Work at Height Directive.

We have discussed its impact on the window cleaning industry in general,
noting that broadly speaking, later this year the use of Unsecured Ladders
for window cleaning will be against the law.

(A number of other EU member states have gone even further, for example the
Dutch government have banned the use of ladders completely, even for
"Access")"


this is just typical E.U, trying to think it is important.

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Nothing surprises me with the E.U. they are a bunch of unelected
prats.


So the elections for European MPs passed you by unnoticed then?

It is a farce, they got no or little power, the whole E.U system is a
farce and should be disbanded.
the sooner the better and then maybe we can get on with running our own
country instead of having some foreigner in another country sticking his
big nose where it should not be.

Dave Saville wrote:

So the elections for European MPs passed you by unnoticed then?


Who have very little to do with the stupid directives coming out of
Brussels.


Just there to look good most of the time and to trick the public into
thinking it is democratic.

Jonathan Buzzard wrote:


Except it is something to do with me. Firstly an unsecured ladder that
falls down represents a hazard anyone who happens to be passing at that
moment. Secondly when the stupid idiot who goes up the ladder and then
injures themselves when it falls down, promptly gets whisked off to
hospital in an ambulance, and undergoes treatment all that the expense
of the NHS - i.e. taxpayers expense, and as a taxpayer partly at my
expense.


do you smoke or drink?
do you drive a car?

If you Smoke and drink then any problems you get because of it is paid
for by me a tax payer.

If you drive a car, and have an accident and end up in hospital, that is
also paid for by me.


So there are at least two ways that some idiot climbing an unsecured
ladder has a potential effect on myself if something goes wrong. We live
in a "liberal democracy," which in theory means you can do what ever you
want so long as it does not effect others. Climbing unsecured ladders
does indeed have consequences for others so it is rightly going to be
made illegal.

This is becoming a Nanny state, in fact it is already one and the E.U is
making it worse.
Nothing to do with them.
It is up to our government to make laws, not some stupid tin pot stuck
in Brussels, who no doubt have never been to this country.


I also suspect strongly though I have not read the regulation from front
to back, that it only effects people in employment. That is if I am
cleaning my own front window it does not apply.


for how long?

In article , Ad C
writes

It will not be enforced, it can not be and how on earth can you secure
a ladder at people houses?

Nails, screws, bolts...
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

In article , Ad C
writes

This is becoming a Nanny state, in fact it is already one

No disagreement there.

and the E.U is making it worse.

Certainly agree with that too.

Nothing to do with them.

Err... where have you been for the past 30 odd years?

It is up to our government to make laws, not some stupid tin pot stuck
in Brussels

Actually, your government relinquished the sovereign right to make laws
(except in specifically agreed domains, such as defence) to Brussels
some considerable time ago. Any laws which do not deal with those
specifically excluded areas which your government makes are subservient
to the laws made in Brussels.

If you don't like it, you know who to vote for at the next election, but
with megalomaniacal loonies like Kilroy-Silk on their side, the nutters
in Brussels don't seem quite so bad.
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)