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Are these top-up tv ads legal??
Just switced the freeview over to C5 to catch the end of Disclosure and a
red banner came across the bottom of the screen to say "press red to find out how to get 10 extra channels". I did and of course a plug came up for top up TV. Is it legal in the UK to allow advertising within a broadcast in this way? Its one thing when they plug the next program on that channel during the climax of the previous prog (but it really ****es me off). This seems a totally different kettle of fish. What next ads for McDonalds????? |
JustME again wrote:
Just switced the freeview over to C5 to catch the end of Disclosure and a red banner came across the bottom of the screen to say "press red to find out how to get 10 extra channels". I did and of course a plug came up for top up TV. Is it legal in the UK to allow advertising within a broadcast in this way? Its one thing when they plug the next program on that channel during the climax of the previous prog (but it really ****es me off). This seems a totally different kettle of fish. What next ads for McDonalds????? I agree, it is getting worse. I am not sure about the legality of it mind you. |
"JustME again" wrote Just switced the freeview over to C5 to catch the end of Disclosure and a red banner came across the bottom of the screen to say "press red to find out how to get 10 extra channels". I did and of course a plug came up for top up TV. Is it legal in the UK to allow advertising within a broadcast in this way? When I complained about the same thing when TUTV started the ITC said it was not advertising, and was OK. Morons! I guess TUTV are paying their wages - we are not. John Howells |
John Howells wrote:
|| "JustME again" wrote || ||| Just switced the freeview over to C5 to catch the end of Disclosure and a ||| red ||| banner came across the bottom of the screen to say "press red to find out ||| how to get 10 extra channels". ||| ||| I did and of course a plug came up for top up TV. ||| ||| Is it legal in the UK to allow advertising within a broadcast in this way? || || When I complained about the same thing when TUTV started the ITC said it was || not advertising, and was OK. Morons! I guess TUTV are paying their wages - || we are not. || || John Howells This is perfectly legal, and has been going on Sky digital for years now. Welcome to the world of interactive advertising. It only gets worse from here on in :) |
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:20:08 -0000, "JustME again"
wrote: | Just switced the freeview over to C5 to catch the end of Disclosure and a | red | banner came across the bottom of the screen to say "press red to find out | how to get 10 extra channels". | | I did and of course a plug came up for top up TV. | | Is it legal in the UK to allow advertising within a broadcast in this way? | | Its one thing when they plug the next program on that channel during the | climax of the previous prog (but it really ****es me off). This seems a | totally different kettle of fish. Try http://www.asab.org.uk/asa/ -- Dave F |
"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message Try http://www.asab.org.uk/asa/ -- Dave F Thanks for the ASA link Dave. Having read the thread it occurs to me that the continuous advertising conducted by many digital channels in the form of DOGs could well be in breach of advertising standards. Those little puppies, DOGs that is, certainly annoy me and many others to a high degree. A while ago I complained to the various broadcasters and other agencies but I did not think to include the ASA. I will give it a try and see if there is any response. If anyone else finds these permanent channel indents spoil their enjoyment of TV programmes perhaps they might also register a complaint with the ASA. Richard. |
"Richard" wrote in message ... "Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message Try http://www.asab.org.uk/asa/ -- Dave F Thanks for the ASA link Dave. Having read the thread it occurs to me that the continuous advertising conducted by many digital channels in the form of DOGs could well be in breach of advertising standards. Those little puppies, DOGs that is, certainly annoy me and many others to a high degree. A while ago I complained to the various broadcasters and other agencies but I did not think to include the ASA. I will give it a try and see if there is any response. If anyone else finds these permanent channel indents spoil their enjoyment of TV programmes perhaps they might also register a complaint with the ASA. They certainly **** me off. I'll give it a go. |
"^^artnada^^" wrote in message .uk... John Howells wrote: || "JustME again" wrote || ||| Just switced the freeview over to C5 to catch the end of Disclosure and a ||| red ||| banner came across the bottom of the screen to say "press red to find out ||| how to get 10 extra channels". ||| ||| I did and of course a plug came up for top up TV. ||| ||| Is it legal in the UK to allow advertising within a broadcast in this way? || || When I complained about the same thing when TUTV started the ITC said it was || not advertising, and was OK. Morons! I guess TUTV are paying their wages - || we are not. || || John Howells This is perfectly legal, and has been going on Sky digital for years now. Welcome to the world of interactive advertising. But have sky digital been carrying ads for other companies during programs, or just their own services (I dont know)? C5 carrying ads for Top Up TV seems to take it to another level. |
In article ,
says... This is perfectly legal, and has been going on Sky digital for years now. Welcome to the world of interactive advertising. But have sky digital been carrying ads for other companies during programs, or just their own services (I dont know)? C5 carrying ads for Top Up TV seems to take it to another level. It's like the BBC shouting about FREEVIEW all the time, yet they have to say "Digital satellite" or "cable", pretending they can't advertise. -- Dom Robinson Gamertag: DVDfever email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk /* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http://LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor), /* 1022 DVDs, 301 games, 102 CDs, 92 cinema films, 33 videos, concerts & news /* outfoxed, mondovino, ultimate kylie, cannonball run, chronicles of riddick Fight back against "PRESS RED": http://dvdfever.co.uk/pressrel/pressred.shtml DVDfever.co.uk on BBC News 24's Click Online! - http://tinyurl.com/2mqj4 |
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 07:29:03 GMT, "^^artnada^^"
wrote: This is perfectly legal, and has been going on Sky digital for years now. Welcome to the world of interactive advertising. It only gets worse from here on in :) There is a major difference though between interactive advertising on Sky and interactive advertising on Freeview. With Sky you have to watch Sky on a Sky box and anyone selling something that changes the functionality of the box can get into trouble for infringement of copyright etc. As happened to someone who tried to increase the featureset of the box so it could better receive other satellites. There is nothing though to stop a Freeview box manufacturer adding the equivalent of a pop-up blocker to freeview so that you could turn these things off or on. In fact it would be relatively simple you could just turn interactive features off by default and then only turn them on when you actually wanted to use them. In fact if you are a Humax owner can you go along to http://www.humaxdigital.com/hcsa/ and request that Humax implement this as either a customer comment or as a technical support request, if enough of us do perhaps Humax will make it happen. |
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:03:38 -0000, Dom Robinson
wrote: In article , says... This is perfectly legal, and has been going on Sky digital for years now. Welcome to the world of interactive advertising. But have sky digital been carrying ads for other companies during programs, or just their own services (I dont know)? C5 carrying ads for Top Up TV seems to take it to another level. It's like the BBC shouting about FREEVIEW all the time, yet they have to say "Digital satellite" or "cable", pretending they can't advertise. There are differences the BBC are on Digital Satellite and you do not have to be with Sky to receive their broadcasts (in fact until my little Hauppauge Nova-s gave up the ghost I used to watch and record the BBC on my computer). With cable you have to be with a cable company. However with Freeview anything that is Free-to-air on DVB-T is on Freeview, and Freeview certainly has a better ring to it than Digital Terrestial Television, or DVB-T. Really Freeview is just an industry body to make DVB-T work rather than a seperate company. TUTV is of course a company dedicated to trying to make digital TV not work! |
When I complained about the same thing when TUTV started the ITC said it
was not advertising, and was OK. Morons! I guess TUTV are paying their wages - we are not. John Howells Ofcoms Advertising Code of Practice: 3.1Break Identification Television advertising must be readily recognisable as such and kept quite separate from other parts of the programme service. This 'in programme' MHEG advert for TopUp does sound like it break the Ofcom rules |
"Zach" wrote When I complained about the same thing when TUTV started the ITC said it was not advertising, and was OK. Morons! I guess TUTV are paying their wages - we are not. John Howells Ofcoms Advertising Code of Practice: 3.1Break Identification Television advertising must be readily recognisable as such and kept quite separate from other parts of the programme service. This 'in programme' MHEG advert for TopUp does sound like it break the Ofcom rules Ho, hum. You obviously missed the bit where I said "the ITC said it was not advertising". I can't remember how they did classify it, but by stating it was not advertising that bit of the code was deemed inapplicable when I quoted the ITC version of it in my complaint to the ITC. Of course, OFCOM might now have a different opinion, but I would not hold your breath. John Howells |
In message , John Porcella
wrote Why not? Nobody forced you to press the red button! It's the large red banner at the bottom of the picture asking you to press the red button that's the problem. This banner is the advert during the program! -- Alan |
In article , John Howells
writes "Zach" wrote When I complained about the same thing when TUTV started the ITC said it was not advertising, and was OK. Morons! I guess TUTV are paying their wages - we are not. John Howells Ofcoms Advertising Code of Practice: 3.1Break Identification Television advertising must be readily recognisable as such and kept quite separate from other parts of the programme service. This 'in programme' MHEG advert for TopUp does sound like it break the Ofcom rules Ho, hum. You obviously missed the bit where I said "the ITC said it was not advertising". I can't remember how they did classify it, but by stating it was not advertising that bit of the code was deemed inapplicable when I quoted the ITC version of it in my complaint to the ITC. Of course, OFCOM might now have a different opinion, but I would not hold your breath. They got away with it last time cos only boxes that hadn't done an update channels since the launch of TUTV were affected. Ofcom (who I complained to) stated that because of this it could be viewed as an upgrade notification rather than an advert. This was helped by the fact that performing a channel update would stop the 'notification'. I have still to check whether updating again will get rid. If not then complaint 2 goes in. -- fred |
"fred" wrote in message ... In article , John Howells writes "Zach" wrote When I complained about the same thing when TUTV started the ITC said it was not advertising, and was OK. Morons! I guess TUTV are paying their wages - we are not. John Howells Ofcoms Advertising Code of Practice: 3.1Break Identification Television advertising must be readily recognisable as such and kept quite separate from other parts of the programme service. This 'in programme' MHEG advert for TopUp does sound like it break the Ofcom rules Ho, hum. You obviously missed the bit where I said "the ITC said it was not advertising". I can't remember how they did classify it, but by stating it was not advertising that bit of the code was deemed inapplicable when I quoted the ITC version of it in my complaint to the ITC. Of course, OFCOM might now have a different opinion, but I would not hold your breath. They got away with it last time cos only boxes that hadn't done an update channels since the launch of TUTV were affected. Ofcom (who I complained to) stated that because of this it could be viewed as an upgrade notification rather than an advert. This was helped by the fact that performing a channel update would stop the 'notification'. I have still to check whether updating again will get rid. If not then complaint 2 goes in. I don't think all boxes are being maintained so there are no software updates are to be had - such as with my old Nokia (I stand to be corrected). If this guess is true, then in the future, as now, there will be an "underclass" of freeview viewers, who have old receivers which can be bombarded with adverts with impunity. Which isn't nice. |
Top-up TV seem to be advertising very heavily this Christmas. I get the feeling that this is a make or break time for them. I tend to agree - and I sincerely hope it is break. I know lots of people buying Freeview boxes this Christmas; none of the boxes are TUTV capable, even though the people concerned are fully aware of TUTV. I tend to think the TUTV banner ads are illegal (advertising during programmes), but mostly it tells me about the kind of people running channel 5 (mostly RTL, I think) to carry this. |
On 11/12/2004, Zach wrote in message [email protected]
gui.ntli.net: Ofcoms Advertising Code of Practice: 3.1Break Identification Television advertising must be readily recognisable as such and kept quite separate from other parts of the programme service. Yeah. That's the bit I was thinking of. If OFCOM are still officially in charge, this is the part of their code they will be trying to enforce. However, I don't know if they've ever been asked to consider MHEG adverts before and I don't know if they'd consider them as part of the broadcast signal. This 'in programme' MHEG advert for TopUp does sound like it break the Ofcom rules Well yes, but adverts for forthcoming TV programmes on the same channel are sometimes allowed. For instance, if you're watching _Terminator 2_ on Channel 4, a voice can come on over the closing credits and tell you that _Terminator 3_ will be on at the same time next Sunday. We're already used to this sort of thing and the only difference between this and that is that they're advertising programmes on a different channel instead of the same one. Simon. -- Using pre-release version of newsreader. Please tell me if it does weird things. |
In article ,
says... You're right, but did you realise I was talking about an 'add channels' rather than a software update, I just got my adds & my updates in a bit of a mixup :-) I've got all the TUTV channels, have had for months, so its not that which caused it. Anything worth watching on it? Not much from the channel line-up for your £8 a month. -- Dom Robinson Gamertag: DVDfever email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk /* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http://LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor), /* 1022 DVDs, 301 games, 102 CDs, 92 cinema films, 33 videos, concerts & news /* outfoxed, mondovino, ultimate kylie, cannonball run, chronicles of riddick Fight back against "PRESS RED": http://dvdfever.co.uk/pressrel/pressred.shtml DVDfever.co.uk on BBC News 24's Click Online! - http://tinyurl.com/2mqj4 |
In uk.tech.digital-tv Dom Robinson wrote:
: That's because it is. They can't have much of a market share, and I'm : surprised they have any given that the encryption system was cracked even : BEFORE ONdigital started broadcasting. TopupTV are using SECA-2 (not SECA as used by OnDigital). SECA-2 is a LOT more secure! |
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In message , Simon Slavin
. uk wrote Well yes, but adverts for forthcoming TV programmes on the same channel are sometimes allowed. For instance, if you're watching _Terminator 2_ on Channel 4, a voice can come on over the closing credits and tell you that _Terminator 3_ will be on at the same time next Sunday. We're already used to this sort of thing and the only difference between this and that is that they're advertising programmes on a different channel instead of the same one. The TUTV adverts are nothing like advertising another program after the program you are watching is coming to an end. The TUTV adverts on Ch5 are during the program and are a red banner occupying the lower part of the screen and hence obliterating part of what you are watching -- Alan |
In uk.tech.digital-tv Dom Robinson wrote:
: : Would my old Nokia box update to use that encryption, or would it already be : compatible? It's compatible....or at least after a possible small STB update which I recall people having to wait for after they had inserted their new TopUpTV smartcard. : And, given that SECA was cracked before ONdigital started broadcasting, why : didn't they use something else? (the question I wish I'd asked them on Right : to Reply, but you always think of something when it's too late) OnDigital were expected to use Videoguard encryption (as Sky Digital) but switched to SECA as, it was believed, they could then get very cheap STBs from several manufacturers - for whom it was simply a matter of slightly mofifying their existing Canel Plus satellite STBs. AFAIR when they chose SECA (about 6 months before launch?) it either wasn't hacked or was not widely so. Canel Plus probably promised them a new smartcard or something. A better question is *WHY* Canel Plus and OnDigital/ITV Digital left it so long? In the days when (analogue) Sky was hacked they took the financial hit of issuing new smartcards with much revised encryption within a matter of weeks! |
On 12/12/2004, Martin Jay wrote in message -
free.org.uk: Top-up TV seem to be advertising very heavily this Christmas. I get the feeling that this is a make or break time for them. I think we all know which way this is going. Simon. -- Using pre-release version of newsreader. Please tell me if it does weird things. |
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:17:06 +0000, Simon Slavin
. uk wrote: On 12/12/2004, Martin Jay wrote in message - free.org.uk: Top-up TV seem to be advertising very heavily this Christmas. I get the feeling that this is a make or break time for them. I think we all know which way this is going. Last I heard they were well on target. I suspect that there is a large enough profit on each sub. I hate to say it but I fear that they are not going to go bankrupt in the short term. Come on could some sell them some football rights... |
In article ,
says... On 12/12/2004, Martin Jay wrote in message - free.org.uk: Top-up TV seem to be advertising very heavily this Christmas. I get the feeling that this is a make or break time for them. I think we all know which way this is going. Any idea what their subs figures are like? -- Dom Robinson Gamertag: DVDfever email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk /* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http://LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor), /* 1024 DVDs, 302 games, 102 CDs, 92 cinema films, 33 videos, concerts & news /* halo 2, divine comedy, britney spears, platinum, eric bibb, michael ball Fight back against "PRESS RED": http://dvdfever.co.uk/pressrel/pressred.shtml DVDfever.co.uk on BBC News 24's Click Online! - http://tinyurl.com/2mqj4 |
In article ,
says... In uk.tech.digital-tv Dom Robinson wrote: : : Would my old Nokia box update to use that encryption, or would it already be : compatible? It's compatible....or at least after a possible small STB update which I recall people having to wait for after they had inserted their new TopUpTV smartcard. : And, given that SECA was cracked before ONdigital started broadcasting, why : didn't they use something else? (the question I wish I'd asked them on Right : to Reply, but you always think of something when it's too late) OnDigital were expected to use Videoguard encryption (as Sky Digital) but switched to SECA as, it was believed, they could then get very cheap STBs from several manufacturers - for whom it was simply a matter of slightly mofifying their existing Canel Plus satellite STBs. AFAIR when they chose SECA (about 6 months before launch?) it either wasn't hacked or was not widely so. Canel Plus probably promised them a new smartcard or something. Ta for all the info, and that latter bit certainly figures. A better question is *WHY* Canel Plus and OnDigital/ITV Digital left it so long? In the days when (analogue) Sky was hacked they took the financial hit of issuing new smartcards with much revised encryption within a matter of weeks! I remember that. They've done well to remain one step ahead with Sky Digital as that's never been cracked, AFAIK. -- Dom Robinson Gamertag: DVDfever email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk /* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http://LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor), /* 1024 DVDs, 302 games, 102 CDs, 92 cinema films, 33 videos, concerts & news /* halo 2, divine comedy, britney spears, platinum, eric bibb, michael ball Fight back against "PRESS RED": http://dvdfever.co.uk/pressrel/pressred.shtml DVDfever.co.uk on BBC News 24's Click Online! - http://tinyurl.com/2mqj4 |
On 16/12/2004, Dom Robinson wrote in message
: says... On 12/12/2004, Martin Jay wrote in message - free.org.uk: Top-up TV seem to be advertising very heavily this Christmas. I get the feeling that this is a make or break time for them. I think we all know which way this is going. Any idea what their subs figures are like? They got 20,000 subscribers in by the end of the first month of 'gnome' advertising, most of them before those adverts started. Since then, they haven't released any figures, and TUTV hasn't been passing their figures to ofcom. I'm not sure but I don't think they actually have to do this more frequently than once a year. They have a break-even point of 250,000 subscriptions at March 2007 (at least, that's what they say). The most common complaint at the moment is that each of the channels they advertise is available for just part of the day. e.g. Cartoon network shuts off at 6pm, Classic movies available only in the evenings. So while they slap the logos of various channels over their adverts you don't actually get the full broadcast of their channels. Simon. |
In article , Mike Henry wrote:
Their website reveals just how small the fractions of channels are (http://www.topuptv.com/whatistopuptv_index.htm). I think they should be done for false advertising! [...] The results are even worse than I thought. You can pay for 229 hours of TV to choose from, but you get less than 94 hours. You find that half the programmes in your listings that you wanted to see are outside of the Top-up hours. You start watching a film on UK Gold and have it cut off in the middle. Diabolical, and the sooner they go bust the better. It's five channels pretending to be ten, and not particularly enticing ones at that. If there are enough people who are willing to pay for this, then they'll get what they deserve, otherwise the company will go the same way as the only previous pay-to-view digital terrestrial broadcaster that this country has ever seen (You'd think they'd have learnt from that, wouldn't you) and nobody will bat an eye. Rod. |
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