Widescreen VHS recordings on a 4:3 TV
 

OK, I'm going to try my best to explain this, although I don't know all the
terminology. I've had many a blank stare from salesmen, but I hope you
people will understand what I'm talking about!

I want to buy a new portable TV for the bedroom, but I need it to have a
specific feature. When I record digital channels from my widescreen IDTV
downstairs, the resultant tape recording is the widescreen picture
"squashed" horizontally into a full-frame 4:3 picture. When playing these
recordings back on the IDTV, the TV automatically stretches the picture to
fill the screen, so that it is displayed correctly (is this what is meant by
"anamorphic" widescreen?). All well and good, except for the fact that when
these recordings are played back on a normal 4:3 television (all the ones
I've tried at least), they are displayed as the "squashed" 4:3 picture.

What I need is a portable 4:3 TV that can squash these pictures vertically
so that they are displayed as letterboxed widescreen. Either automatically,
or via a manual function, I don't care as long as I can see the picture in
the correct ratio.

Does anyone know of any portable TVs (preferably with decent NICAM stereo)
that can do this? Is there a name for this feature if it even exists? Am I
making any sense at all?


Thanks.

Nobody wrote:
OK, I'm going to try my best to explain this, although I don't know all the
terminology. I've had many a blank stare from salesmen, but I hope you
people will understand what I'm talking about!

I want to buy a new portable TV for the bedroom, but I need it to have a
specific feature. When I record digital channels from my widescreen IDTV
downstairs, the resultant tape recording is the widescreen picture
"squashed" horizontally into a full-frame 4:3 picture. When playing these
recordings back on the IDTV, the TV automatically stretches the picture to
fill the screen, so that it is displayed correctly (is this what is meant by
"anamorphic" widescreen?). All well and good, except for the fact that when
these recordings are played back on a normal 4:3 television (all the ones
I've tried at least), they are displayed as the "squashed" 4:3 picture.

What I need is a portable 4:3 TV that can squash these pictures vertically
so that they are displayed as letterboxed widescreen. Either automatically,
or via a manual function, I don't care as long as I can see the picture in
the correct ratio.

Does anyone know of any portable TVs (preferably with decent NICAM stereo)
that can do this? Is there a name for this feature if it even exists? Am I
making any sense at all?

You are making perfect sense. The feature is simply called widescreen
mode and is available on plenty of modern 4:3 sets (haven't got a list,
sorry). Don't be concerned that salesmen don't understand what you're
talking, they don't know anything!

"Ben" wrote in message
...
Nobody wrote:
OK, I'm going to try my best to explain this, although I don't know all
the terminology. I've had many a blank stare from salesmen, but I hope
you people will understand what I'm talking about!

I want to buy a new portable TV for the bedroom, but I need it to have a
specific feature. When I record digital channels from my widescreen IDTV
downstairs, the resultant tape recording is the widescreen picture
"squashed" horizontally into a full-frame 4:3 picture. When playing
these recordings back on the IDTV, the TV automatically stretches the
picture to fill the screen, so that it is displayed correctly (is this
what is meant by "anamorphic" widescreen?). All well and good, except
for the fact that when these recordings are played back on a normal 4:3
television (all the ones I've tried at least), they are displayed as the
"squashed" 4:3 picture.

What I need is a portable 4:3 TV that can squash these pictures
vertically so that they are displayed as letterboxed widescreen. Either
automatically, or via a manual function, I don't care as long as I can
see the picture in the correct ratio.

Does anyone know of any portable TVs (preferably with decent NICAM
stereo) that can do this? Is there a name for this feature if it even
exists? Am I making any sense at all?

You are making perfect sense. The feature is simply called widescreen mode
and is available on plenty of modern 4:3 sets (haven't got a list, sorry).
Don't be concerned that salesmen don't understand what you're talking,
they don't know anything!

Or "16:9 compatible" as well as "widescreen compatible".

OK, I'm going to try my best to explain this, although I don't know all
the terminology. I've had many a blank stare from salesmen, but I hope
you people will understand what I'm talking about!

I want to buy a new portable TV for the bedroom, but I need it to have
a
specific feature. When I record digital channels from my widescreen
IDTV
downstairs, the resultant tape recording is the widescreen picture
"squashed" horizontally into a full-frame 4:3 picture. When playing
these recordings back on the IDTV, the TV automatically stretches the
picture to fill the screen, so that it is displayed correctly (is this
what is meant by "anamorphic" widescreen?). All well and good, except
for the fact that when these recordings are played back on a normal 4:3
television (all the ones I've tried at least), they are displayed as
the
"squashed" 4:3 picture.

What I need is a portable 4:3 TV that can squash these pictures
vertically so that they are displayed as letterboxed widescreen.
Either
automatically, or via a manual function, I don't care as long as I can
see the picture in the correct ratio.

Does anyone know of any portable TVs (preferably with decent NICAM
stereo) that can do this? Is there a name for this feature if it even
exists? Am I making any sense at all?

You are making perfect sense. The feature is simply called widescreen
mode
and is available on plenty of modern 4:3 sets (haven't got a list,
sorry).
Don't be concerned that salesmen don't understand what you're talking,
they don't know anything!

Or "16:9 compatible" as well as "widescreen compatible".

Seemed to be popular on a few sonys a while back, don't know if it is still
the case.

Mat Overton wrote:
Or "16:9 compatible" as well as "widescreen compatible".

Seemed to be popular on a few sonys a while back, don't know if it is still
the case.

I have an LG 14 inch TV that I bought three years ago that does
just that, it has a 16:9 button on the remote that vertically squashes
the image. I assume it also has Scart pin 8 control too, though
I've never tested that.

In message
Ben wrote:

Nobody wrote:
What I need is a portable 4:3 TV that can squash these pictures
vertically so that they are displayed as letterboxed widescreen. Either
automatically, or via a manual function, I don't care as long as I can
see the picture in the correct ratio.

Does anyone know of any portable TVs (preferably with decent NICAM
stereo) that can do this? Is there a name for this feature if it even
exists? Am I making any sense at all?

You are making perfect sense. The feature is simply called widescreen
mode and is available on plenty of modern 4:3 sets (haven't got a list,
sorry). Don't be concerned that salesmen don't understand what you're
talking, they don't know anything!

For convenience, you'll want this to happen automatically. Ideally the
set should support WSS (Wide-Screen Signalling - an aspect ratio signal
hidden at the top of the picture). The WSS will be recorded automatically on
the VHS tape and the TV will act on it when it's played back.

I don't know whether widescreen-capable 4:3 TVs generally support this. They
usually do support the alternative, which is a low-voltage signal on Pin 8 of
the SCART connector. That will only work on playback if the video knows that
the recording is widescreen (either by detecting the WSS recorded onto the
tape, or by having recorded somehow the state of Pin 8), and generates the
appropriate Pin 8 signal on playback. Only a minority of modern videos will
do this.

Now, I'm going to reiterate a question posed on another thread: does anyone
know of any Freeview boxes that can take advantage of a widescreen-capable
4:3 TV? ie they will output 16:9 anamorphic instead of 16:9 letterbox?
Obviously this can be forced by lying to the box that you have a 16:9 TV, but
then lots of manual overrides are required - I want it automatic.

--
Kevin Bracey, Principal Software Engineer
Tematic Ltd Tel: +44 (0) 1223 503464
182-190 Newmarket Road Fax: +44 (0) 1728 727430
Cambridge, CB5 8HE, United Kingdom WWW: http://www.tematic.com/

Kevin Bracey wrote:
[snip]
Now, I'm going to reiterate a question posed on another thread: does
anyone know of any Freeview boxes that can take advantage of a
widescreen-capable 4:3 TV? ie they will output 16:9 anamorphic
instead of 16:9 letterbox? Obviously this can be forced by lying to
the box that you have a 16:9 TV, but then lots of manual overrides
are required - I want it automatic.

Err - what manual overrides?

I have a 4:3 21" set that has a 16:9 display mode (most Sony's sold over the
last 8 years or so have) When configured for a 16:9 TV most DVB set top
boxes only output a 16:9 FHA signal + 16:9 pin 8 signal / WSS when actual
full width 16:9 is being broadcast, when 4:3 material is being broadcast
(even on DTT using AFD triggers) most boxes output 4:3 accompanied by a 4:3
pin 8/WSS signal. Not sure what "lots of manual overrides" you are talking
about. The only annoying issue is when 4:3 material is broadcast in
pillarbox within a 16:9 frame - but signalled as 16:9 (say 4:3 Sport on
Grandstand) - in situations like this you end up with Postage Stamp unless
you switch the box back to 4:3 TV mode AND full-frame not letterbox - but
this is the same situation as a 4:3 output in letterbox mode for 16:9 TVs.

In other words the only difference I have observed between a STB configured
for a 16:9 TV, and one configured for a 4:3 TV with letterbox output (16:9
LB only), when feeding a 4:3 set with a 16:9 mode, is the potential
increased vertical resolution in 16:9 mode.

Steve

"Dave" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Nobody" wrote in message
...
OK, I'm going to try my best to explain this, although I don't know all
the
terminology. I've had many a blank stare from salesmen, but I hope you
people will understand what I'm talking about!

I want to buy a new portable TV for the bedroom, but I need it to have a
specific feature. When I record digital channels from my widescreen IDTV
downstairs, the resultant tape recording is the widescreen picture
"squashed" horizontally into a full-frame 4:3 picture. When playing
these
recordings back on the IDTV, the TV automatically stretches the picture
to
fill the screen, so that it is displayed correctly (is this what is meant
by
"anamorphic" widescreen?). All well and good, except for the fact that
when
these recordings are played back on a normal 4:3 television (all the ones
I've tried at least), they are displayed as the "squashed" 4:3 picture.

What I need is a portable 4:3 TV that can squash these pictures
vertically
so that they are displayed as letterboxed widescreen. Either
automatically,
or via a manual function, I don't care as long as I can see the picture
in
the correct ratio.

Does anyone know of any portable TVs (preferably with decent NICAM
stereo)
that can do this? Is there a name for this feature if it even exists?
Am
I
making any sense at all?


It is unlikely that your recording is being made as a true widescreen
recording... for this to happen you VCR has to recognise a widescreen
signal
on its input SCART pin 8, and that makes it record a modified control
track
so that on playback the VCRs SCART output pin 8 will indicate widescreen
to
the TV.

As you're recording from an idTV, it is unlikely that the pin 8 on the
SCART
socket you are using will be outputting a widescreen indication (as pin
8s
on TVs are configured as inputs).

The only way for this to work wouldbe if you idTV output Widescreen
signalling on line 23 of the video signal. This would be recorded
transparently by the VCR and your 4:3 TV would see this on playback, react
to it and reduce its vertical scan. Again, neither idTV or 4:3 are likely
to support this functionality.

Dave



Widescreen is anamorphically compressed into the normal 4:3 video space.
That means any video recorder will record widescreen video, but only a 16:9
aware recorder will store the widsecreen "bit" and replicate it via it's
scart output to automatically switch.

In article [email protected], Dave wrote:
The only way for this to work wouldbe if you idTV output Widescreen
signalling on line 23 of the video signal. This would be recorded
transparently by the VCR and your 4:3 TV would see this on playback, react
to it and reduce its vertical scan. Again, neither idTV or 4:3 are likely
to support this functionality.

I found that this is supported using a VHS recorder to record the analogue
output of an old Nokia On-Digital box, but not with the Philips or Pioneer
boxes. I stopped using VHS before I got the Setpal box, so I couldn't say
whether it outputs the line 23 signal. Any old VHS machine will record and
play back the line 23 autoswitching signal if your digital receiver produces
it but it is important to know that some receivers do, and some don't.

The people who sell these things in shops ought to know this of course, but I
expect this is also a case of some do and some don't.

Rod.

"Dave" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"John Russell" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Nobody" wrote in message
...
OK, I'm going to try my best to explain this, although I don't know
all
the
terminology. I've had many a blank stare from salesmen, but I hope
you
people will understand what I'm talking about!

I want to buy a new portable TV for the bedroom, but I need it to have
a
specific feature. When I record digital channels from my widescreen
IDTV
downstairs, the resultant tape recording is the widescreen picture
"squashed" horizontally into a full-frame 4:3 picture. When playing
these
recordings back on the IDTV, the TV automatically stretches the
picture
to
fill the screen, so that it is displayed correctly (is this what is
meant
by
"anamorphic" widescreen?). All well and good, except for the fact
that
when
these recordings are played back on a normal 4:3 television (all the
ones
I've tried at least), they are displayed as the "squashed" 4:3
picture.

What I need is a portable 4:3 TV that can squash these pictures
vertically
so that they are displayed as letterboxed widescreen. Either
automatically,
or via a manual function, I don't care as long as I can see the
picture
in
the correct ratio.

Does anyone know of any portable TVs (preferably with decent NICAM
stereo)
that can do this? Is there a name for this feature if it even exists?
Am
I
making any sense at all?


It is unlikely that your recording is being made as a true widescreen
recording... for this to happen you VCR has to recognise a widescreen
signal
on its input SCART pin 8, and that makes it record a modified control
track
so that on playback the VCRs SCART output pin 8 will indicate
widescreen
to
the TV.

As you're recording from an idTV, it is unlikely that the pin 8 on the
SCART
socket you are using will be outputting a widescreen indication (as
pin
8s
on TVs are configured as inputs).

The only way for this to work wouldbe if you idTV output Widescreen
signalling on line 23 of the video signal. This would be recorded
transparently by the VCR and your 4:3 TV would see this on playback,
react
to it and reduce its vertical scan. Again, neither idTV or 4:3 are
likely
to support this functionality.

Dave



Widescreen is anamorphically compressed into the normal 4:3 video space.
That means any video recorder will record widescreen video, but only a
16:9
aware recorder will store the widsecreen "bit" and replicate it via it's
scart output to automatically switch.

Sure - but I was using the term widescreen recording to mean a VHS tape
with
a modified control track that will cause 6v on SCART pin 8 on playback.
Unfortunately, shops sell VHS movies which are called widecsreen when they
are actually 4:3 recordings containing a letterbox.

The OP is asking for automatic ws handling on his 4:3 TV.. unless the
recordings are made with a modified control track, its not going to work,
even with a 4:3 that can collapse its vertical scan for ws playback.



Well actually he said he would be happy with manual switching if that's all
he could get.
Personnaly I've only seen this on very large 4:3 TV's as watching
"letterbox", anamorphic or otherwise, is rediculous on a small 4:3 TV.