On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:33:02 +0100, Dominic Shields
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:27:34 +0100, Phil M wrote:

You can't preserve a language. It's a means of communication not a
thing.

By using it to communicate ?

So communicate in Welsh to this NG - see how lonely you feel.


--
Cheers

Peter

Remove the INVALID to reply

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
...
In , Simon Slavin
. uk wrote:
So what you're really saying is that the Welsh language should
be imposed on people living in Wales whether they like it or
not.

It already is. Under the National Curriculum, all children in Wales have
to study Welsh to GCSE level AFAIR.

I would have thought that it would be more useful to learn Latin.

--
Max Demian

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:27:34 +0100, Phil M wrote:

You can't preserve a language. It's a means of communication not a
thing.


Perhaps a language can be defined in grammar books, dictionaries, and
recorded speech.... and therefore a snapshot of it at a point in time could
be "preserved" in a dusty library somewhere..

In practice, a language changes daily - new words and meanings are added
constantly. To "preserve" in this case must mean to kill and freeze.

If the object of education is to aid communication, then surely it should be
encouraging a common language understood by all must be the goal.

Perhaps Franglais or Esperanto would be a better investment of educational
resources.






---
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In article , John
Beeston wrote:
Perhaps Franglais or Esperanto would be a better investment of educational
resources.

There are probably more people who can speak Klingon than Esperanto.

In terms of global influence, it's now abundantly obvious that English (if
you count all its mutually comprehensible variations as one) is set to be
the "World Language" for the foreseeable future, though in terms of numbers
of speakers, Spanish and Chinese would be strong contenders.

As far as educational resources are concerned, despite Latin and Classical
Greek both being "dead" in the sense that nobody uses them in their original
forms for everyday communications, some study of these would be far more use
than Welsh in understanding the proper use of English.

Rod.

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:23:58 +0100, Mike Henry
wrote:

In , Dominic Shields
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:47:41 +0100, Mike Henry
wrote:

It already is. Under the National Curriculum, all children in Wales have
to study Welsh to GCSE level AFAIR.

That's hardly new,

I did not say that is was new. Since 1991 ish I think.

Back into the world of Digital TV, I wonder how long it will be before
in Wales there is an option to choose Welsh audio on all the main
channels. Okay any on screen graphics would still be in English but
then they could have a choice of audio streams.

I hate to say this but if someone from the Welsh Assembly realises
that this is possible I bet you it will happen eventually. In some
ways though it would be a better idea. Scrap S4C altogether, and an
use audio channel for a Welsh dub or Welsh subtitles. There would
still be space in the schedules which could and would show productions
in Welsh, and there could be an English dub for the rest of the Isles
if it was interesting.

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:47:34 +0100, "Max Demian"
wrote:

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
.. .
In , Simon Slavin
. uk wrote:
So what you're really saying is that the Welsh language should
be imposed on people living in Wales whether they like it or
not.

It already is. Under the National Curriculum, all children in Wales have
to study Welsh to GCSE level AFAIR.

I would have thought that it would be more useful to learn Latin.

No, not at all, for many jobs now in Wales it is a requirement that
you can speak Welsh. It is a good way of keeping jobs in Wales for
the Welsh. The Welsh can apply for jobs in the rest of the United
Kingdom, but since no one else speaks Welsh they can keep their own
jobs for themselves.

Welsh is a growing language, by pressgang, but growing.

"Ed" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:47:34 +0100, "Max Demian"
wrote:

"Mike Henry" wrote in message
.. .

It already is. Under the National Curriculum, all children in Wales
have
to study Welsh to GCSE level AFAIR.

I would have thought that it would be more useful to learn Latin.

No, not at all, for many jobs now in Wales it is a requirement that
you can speak Welsh. It is a good way of keeping jobs in Wales for
the Welsh. The Welsh can apply for jobs in the rest of the United
Kingdom, but since no one else speaks Welsh they can keep their own
jobs for themselves.

That's not much of a recommendation.

Perhaps they will make discrimination on the basis of language illegal.

Welsh is a growing language, by pressgang, but growing.

Haven't you heard of the Tower of Babel?

--
Max Demian

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker, as likely as not.

Och aye, awa' wi' yon Edinburgh Festival

The Scotsman is mean, as we're all well aware
And bony and blotchy and covered with hair
He eats salty porridge, he works all the day
And he hasn't got bishops to show him the way!

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

Ah hit me old mother over the head with a shillelagh

The Irishman now out contempt is beneath
He sleeps in his boots and he lies through his teeth
He blows up policemen, or so I have heard
And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third!

The English are noble, the English are nice,
And worth any other at double the price

Ah, iechyd da

The Welshman's dishonest and cheats when he can
And little and dark, more like monkey than man
He works underground with a lamp in his hat
And he sings far too loud, far too often, and flat!

And crossing the Channel, one cannot say much
Of French and the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red,
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed!

The English are moral, the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood.

And all the world over, each nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun!

The English, the English, the English are best
So up with the English and down with the rest.

It's not that they're wicked or natuarally bad
It's knowing they're foreign that makes them so mad!

For the English are all that a nation should be,
And the flower of the English are Donald (Michael)
Donald (Michael) and Me!

Flanders and Swann --- Ahh lovely. Back in the days before political
correctness was invented, and we could as rude as we liked to people's faces
instead of merely behind their backs.

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker, as likely as not.

Och aye, awa' wi' yon Edinburgh Festival

The Scotsman is mean, as we're all well aware
And bony and blotchy and covered with hair
He eats salty porridge, he works all the day
And he hasn't got bishops to show him the way!

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

Ah hit me old mother over the head with a shillelagh

The Irishman now out contempt is beneath
He sleeps in his boots and he lies through his teeth
He blows up policemen, or so I have heard
And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third!

The English are noble, the English are nice,
And worth any other at double the price

Ah, iechyd da

The Welshman's dishonest and cheats when he can
And little and dark, more like monkey than man
He works underground with a lamp in his hat
And he sings far too loud, far too often, and flat!

And crossing the Channel, one cannot say much
Of French and the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red,
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed!

The English are moral, the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood.

And all the world over, each nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun!

The English, the English, the English are best
So up with the English and down with the rest.

It's not that they're wicked or natuarally bad
It's knowing they're foreign that makes them so mad!

For the English are all that a nation should be,
And the flower of the English are Donald (Michael)
Donald (Michael) and Me!

Flanders and Swann --- Ahh lovely. Back in the days before political
correctness was invented, and we could as rude as we liked to people's
faces
instead of merely behind their backs.

Bill

Very funny.

The 'And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun!' bit is quite
prescient, many decades before the penalty shootout had been invented.

I suppose that nobody writes songs like that anymore, apart from Randy
Newman (My Old Kentucky Home, Political Science, Short People, etc.).

In message , Ed
wrote

I hate to say this but if someone from the Welsh Assembly realises
that this is possible I bet you it will happen eventually. In some
ways though it would be a better idea. Scrap S4C altogether, and an
use audio channel for a Welsh dub or Welsh subtitles. There would
still be space in the schedules which could and would show productions
in Welsh, and there could be an English dub for the rest of the Isles
if it was interesting.


The 'political correctness brigade' will probably insist that _all_
programs made in the UK should be in minority languages. If English was
then required that could be dubbed in afterwards.

Think how much worse that a program content would be if 10 percent was
spent on actually making it and the other 90 percent on the language
support services.
--
Alan