Home cinema - Pace twin hard disc and PC hard discs?

Page 1 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

HomeCinemaBanter (http://www.homecinemabanter.com/index.php)

- UK digital tv (http://www.homecinemabanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5)

- - Pace twin hard disc and PC hard discs? (http://www.homecinemabanter.com/showthread.php?t=25707)

Ricky

February 11th 04 12:02 PM

Pace twin hard disc and PC hard discs?

Hi there,

Does anybody know if you can remove the hard disc on the Pace Twin and
install it into a PC and transfer recorded programmes onto the PC hard
disc (and from there to DVD-R or VCD) in a watchable and editable
format?

The thought of "archiving" programmes from the Twin to VCR seems to be
missing the point if you have the programmes on disc in MPEG-2 (or
whatever) format anyway.

On a related point, is it possible to upgrade the hard disc of the
Twin to a larger capacity drive?

Of course, what I really want is a DTT box with a hard disc recorder
and a DVD recorder built in... Are there any on the horizon?

Cheers,

Ric.

Ritchie Logan

February 11th 04 02:12 PM

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:02:13 -0800, Ricky wrote:

Of course, what I really want is a DTT box with a hard disc recorder
and a DVD recorder built in... Are there any on the horizon?

I'd prefer a DTT with HDD and ethernet port to allow me to rip the file
over to a PC for editing and mastering onto DVD.

Ritchie Logan

February 11th 04 02:12 PM

Slow Flyer

February 11th 04 06:24 PM

"Ritchie Logan" wrote in message
.com...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:02:13 -0800, Ricky wrote:

Of course, what I really want is a DTT box with a hard disc recorder
and a DVD recorder built in... Are there any on the horizon?

I'd prefer a DTT with HDD and ethernet port to allow me to rip the file
over to a PC for editing and mastering onto DVD.

Search using PVR. Some satellite versions already have DVD and USB. But
they cost!
The the forecast DTT PVR market is half that of satellite, so I guess
they'll be there.

Slow Flyer

February 11th 04 06:24 PM

Adrian

February 11th 04 08:19 PM

"Ricky" wrote in message
m...
Hi there,

snip
On a related point, is it possible to upgrade the hard disc of the
Twin to a larger capacity drive?
snip

Yes - see he
http://www.pvruk.co.uk/upgrades.cfm...up_pacetwin.cfm

I haven't had the bottle to do this yet...

Adrian
a d r i a n [ a t ] b u r k y [ d o t ] n e t

Adrian

February 11th 04 08:19 PM

Ian Clowes

February 12th 04 01:07 AM

Ricky wrote:
Hi there,

Does anybody know if you can remove the hard disc on the Pace Twin and
install it into a PC and transfer recorded programmes onto the PC hard
disc (and from there to DVD-R or VCD) in a watchable and editable
format?

Hi

I can just about do this under Linux now, and nearly do it under
Windows. Search Google for more info. I'm not aware of anyone else
working on the same problem at present.

Cheers
IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Ian Clowes

February 12th 04 01:07 AM

Ian Clowes

February 12th 04 01:07 AM

Ritchie Logan wrote:

I'd prefer a DTT with HDD and ethernet port to allow me to rip the file
over to a PC for editing and mastering onto DVD.

Me too...

IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Ian Clowes

February 12th 04 01:07 AM

Mike	February 12th 04 10:38 AM

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:07:17 +0000, Ian Clowes
wrote:

Ricky wrote:
Hi there,

Does anybody know if you can remove the hard disc on the Pace Twin and
install it into a PC and transfer recorded programmes onto the PC hard
disc (and from there to DVD-R or VCD) in a watchable and editable
format?

Hi

I can just about do this under Linux now, and nearly do it under
Windows. Search Google for more info. I'm not aware of anyone else
working on the same problem at present.

Cheers
IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Hi Ian,

I recently found your threads on this and the dvb newsgroup and read
them with great interest.

My immediate thoughts were firstly, can you do the whole process under
a Win32 OS and secondly, are you planning to integrate the process
into a single app and release it at some stage. I for one would be
happy to pay for such an app. I often archive stuff of my twin to DVD
using my PC but it takes a long time to capture via tv card and encode
to MPEG2 and the quality suffers.

Cheers

Mike

Mike	February 12th 04 10:38 AM

Ian Clowes

February 12th 04 08:24 PM

Mike wrote:

Hi Ian,

My immediate thoughts were firstly, can you do the whole process under
a Win32 OS

Hi

Broadly, yes. I'm actually now writing the code on Windows and Linux at
the same time now, although this is working with a disk image captured
unde Linux rather than the mounted disk.

The main hurdle I have to cross is adding some per OS code to access the
HDD at a low enough level. This is trivial in Linux, and shouldn't be a
major problem once I come to do it on Windows, although the two Windows
flavours (Win 9X and NT) do differ in how they do this. Once I have the
processing of the data working under both I'll add this final Windows
disk access part.

and secondly, are you planning to integrate the process
into a single app and release it at some stage.

Initially it'll probably be a command line app, although I'd expect to
do a VB app or something that could call out to this and hence provide a
GUI interface of sorts. I might factor the code into DLLs so I can make
it a little more integrated.

I for one would be
happy to pay for such an app. I often archive stuff of my twin to DVD
using my PC but it takes a long time to capture via tv card and encode
to MPEG2 and the quality suffers.

I'm doing it more for fun. I hadn't really thought about distributuon.
You can probably expect early releases at least to be free. Feel free
to buy me a pint when I'm passing though...

Cheers
IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Ian Clowes

February 12th 04 08:24 PM

Mike	February 12th 04 09:24 PM

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:24:02 +0000, Ian Clowes
wrote:

Mike wrote:

Hi Ian,

My immediate thoughts were firstly, can you do the whole process under
a Win32 OS

Hi

Broadly, yes. I'm actually now writing the code on Windows and Linux at
the same time now, although this is working with a disk image captured
unde Linux rather than the mounted disk.

That's excellent news. I'm sure such a tool would be enthusiastically
recieved by tech savvy twin owners.

The main hurdle I have to cross is adding some per OS code to access the
HDD at a low enough level. This is trivial in Linux, and shouldn't be a
major problem once I come to do it on Windows, although the two Windows
flavours (Win 9X and NT) do differ in how they do this. Once I have the
processing of the data working under both I'll add this final Windows
disk access part.

and secondly, are you planning to integrate the process
into a single app and release it at some stage.

Initially it'll probably be a command line app, although I'd expect to
do a VB app or something that could call out to this and hence provide a
GUI interface of sorts. I might factor the code into DLLs so I can make
it a little more integrated.

DLL's sound good. I'm a programmer and to be able to build my own
front end would be useful.

I for one would be
happy to pay for such an app. I often archive stuff of my twin to DVD
using my PC but it takes a long time to capture via tv card and encode
to MPEG2 and the quality suffers.

I'm doing it more for fun. I hadn't really thought about distributuon.
You can probably expect early releases at least to be free. Feel free
to buy me a pint when I'm passing though...

Not 'alf mate!

If you want someone to do a bit of beta testing then I'd be happy to
help ;-)

Keep us posted!

Cheers

Mike

Cheers
IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Mike	February 12th 04 09:24 PM

Java Jive

February 12th 04 09:40 PM

Ahh! The memories! How this takes me back ...

Years ago, when every blasted micro used different disk formats (if they
used disks at all), I wrote a program in C++ to convert between some of
them. The modular design allowed new formats to be added simply by writing
a new module. I ended up being able to copy files between any two of DOS,
CPC6128 (which had a 5.25" second drive), Commodore PET 9600 (using a Maplin
interface to control its drive), and a virtual disk format for a PC-based
CPC emulator, and was thus finally able to retrieve all my data from all my
old micros before ridding myself of their turbulent nature.

I'd offer the code, but as it was DOS and floppy based and the PC module was
command-line, it's only likely to be remotely helpful for W9x ...

Thanks for the memory though :-)

"Ian Clowes" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:

Hi Ian,

My immediate thoughts were firstly, can you do the whole process under
a Win32 OS

Hi

Broadly, yes. I'm actually now writing the code on Windows and Linux at
the same time now, although this is working with a disk image captured
unde Linux rather than the mounted disk.

The main hurdle I have to cross is adding some per OS code to access the
HDD at a low enough level. This is trivial in Linux, and shouldn't be a
major problem once I come to do it on Windows, although the two Windows
flavours (Win 9X and NT) do differ in how they do this. Once I have the
processing of the data working under both I'll add this final Windows
disk access part.

and secondly, are you planning to integrate the process
into a single app and release it at some stage.

Initially it'll probably be a command line app, although I'd expect to
do a VB app or something that could call out to this and hence provide a
GUI interface of sorts. I might factor the code into DLLs so I can make
it a little more integrated.

I for one would be
happy to pay for such an app. I often archive stuff of my twin to DVD
using my PC but it takes a long time to capture via tv card and encode
to MPEG2 and the quality suffers.

I'm doing it more for fun. I hadn't really thought about distributuon.
You can probably expect early releases at least to be free. Feel free
to buy me a pint when I'm passing though...

Cheers
IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Java Jive

February 12th 04 09:40 PM

nick	February 14th 04 01:55 AM

Godspeed Ian ;)

"Ian Clowes" wrote in message ...
Mike wrote:

Hi Ian,

My immediate thoughts were firstly, can you do the whole process under
a Win32 OS

Hi

Broadly, yes. I'm actually now writing the code on Windows and Linux at
the same time now, although this is working with a disk image captured
unde Linux rather than the mounted disk.

The main hurdle I have to cross is adding some per OS code to access the
HDD at a low enough level. This is trivial in Linux, and shouldn't be a
major problem once I come to do it on Windows, although the two Windows
flavours (Win 9X and NT) do differ in how they do this. Once I have the
processing of the data working under both I'll add this final Windows
disk access part.

and secondly, are you planning to integrate the process
into a single app and release it at some stage.

Initially it'll probably be a command line app, although I'd expect to
do a VB app or something that could call out to this and hence provide a
GUI interface of sorts. I might factor the code into DLLs so I can make
it a little more integrated.

I for one would be
happy to pay for such an app. I often archive stuff of my twin to DVD
using my PC but it takes a long time to capture via tv card and encode
to MPEG2 and the quality suffers.

I'm doing it more for fun. I hadn't really thought about distributuon.
You can probably expect early releases at least to be free. Feel free
to buy me a pint when I'm passing though...

Cheers
IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

nick	February 14th 04 01:55 AM

nick	February 14th 04 01:59 AM

Wouldn't be great if the Pace had USB2 or firewire. Or a removable IDE caddy for the HD.
rs232 port just doesn't cut it.

"Mike" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:07:17 +0000, Ian Clowes
wrote:

Ricky wrote:
Hi there,

Does anybody know if you can remove the hard disc on the Pace Twin and
install it into a PC and transfer recorded programmes onto the PC hard
disc (and from there to DVD-R or VCD) in a watchable and editable
format?

Hi

I can just about do this under Linux now, and nearly do it under
Windows. Search Google for more info. I'm not aware of anyone else
working on the same problem at present.

Cheers
IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Hi Ian,

I recently found your threads on this and the dvb newsgroup and read
them with great interest.

My immediate thoughts were firstly, can you do the whole process under
a Win32 OS and secondly, are you planning to integrate the process
into a single app and release it at some stage. I for one would be
happy to pay for such an app. I often archive stuff of my twin to DVD
using my PC but it takes a long time to capture via tv card and encode
to MPEG2 and the quality suffers.

Cheers

Mike

nick	February 14th 04 01:59 AM

Steve

February 14th 04 12:40 PM

Ritchie Logan wrote in
.com:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:02:13 -0800, Ricky wrote:

Of course, what I really want is a DTT box with a hard disc recorder
and a DVD recorder built in... Are there any on the horizon?

I'd prefer a DTT with HDD and ethernet port to allow me to rip the file
over to a PC for editing and mastering onto DVD.

Even better a PCMCIA or USB port so you can add either wired or wireless.

Steve

February 14th 04 12:40 PM

John Beeston

February 15th 04 02:38 PM

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Ritchie Logan wrote in
.com:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:02:13 -0800, Ricky wrote:

Of course, what I really want is a DTT box with a hard disc recorder
and a DVD recorder built in... Are there any on the horizon?

I'd prefer a DTT with HDD and ethernet port to allow me to rip the file
over to a PC for editing and mastering onto DVD.

Even better a PCMCIA or USB port so you can add either wired or wireless.

Wouldn't it be far simpler to just connect a freeview device to the PC?

say a Hauppauge Dec200t, or one of the Nubula cards?

You could then record to Hard Disc, edit at will, then cut to DVD....

John

John Beeston

February 15th 04 02:38 PM

Steve

February 15th 04 03:38 PM

"John Beeston" wrote in
:

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Ritchie Logan wrote in
.com:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:02:13 -0800, Ricky wrote:

Of course, what I really want is a DTT box with a hard disc
recorder and a DVD recorder built in... Are there any on the
horizon?

I'd prefer a DTT with HDD and ethernet port to allow me to rip the
file over to a PC for editing and mastering onto DVD.

Even better a PCMCIA or USB port so you can add either wired or
wireless.

Wouldn't it be far simpler to just connect a freeview device to the
PC?

It need not be complex though. We are talking an *ideal* HDD DTT PVR, it
would therefore have a plug and play interface with a simple means of
extracting the files (i.e. an SMB share or HTTP/FTP server). Just grab the
file and process.

say a Hauppauge Dec200t, or one of the Nubula cards?

You could then record to Hard Disc, edit at will, then cut to DVD....

But then you loose the ability to record and watch in your living room,
unless you move the PC there and keep it on all the time. This may not be
convenient and you have to get a second PC.

Steve

February 15th 04 03:38 PM

John Beeston

February 15th 04 04:29 PM

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Wouldn't it be far simpler to just connect a freeview device to the
PC?

It need not be complex though. We are talking an *ideal* HDD DTT PVR, it
would therefore have a plug and play interface with a simple means of
extracting the files (i.e. an SMB share or HTTP/FTP server). Just grab the
file and process.

say a Hauppauge Dec200t, or one of the Nubula cards?

You could then record to Hard Disc, edit at will, then cut to DVD....

But then you loose the ability to record and watch in your living room,
unless you move the PC there and keep it on all the time. This may not be
convenient and you have to get a second PC.

Or you could take a view which says that investing in task specific devices
for the living room, which are too complex for anyone above the age of 10,
and are out of date the minute you buy them, is poor economics..

Far better that you have the complete flexibility of a PC in the living room
giving communal /family access to the net / email / TV / DVD / MP3 / games
etc etc, and network it (via wireless) to others (elsewhere) for private
use.

May be a slight issue with configuration control... but what's new.

John

John Beeston

February 15th 04 04:29 PM

Steve

February 15th 04 05:43 PM

"John Beeston" wrote in
:

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Wouldn't it be far simpler to just connect a freeview device to the
PC?

It need not be complex though. We are talking an *ideal* HDD DTT PVR,
it would therefore have a plug and play interface with a simple means
of extracting the files (i.e. an SMB share or HTTP/FTP server). Just
grab the file and process.

say a Hauppauge Dec200t, or one of the Nubula cards?

You could then record to Hard Disc, edit at will, then cut to
DVD....

But then you loose the ability to record and watch in your living
room, unless you move the PC there and keep it on all the time. This
may not be convenient and you have to get a second PC.

Or you could take a view which says that investing in task specific
devices for the living room, which are too complex for anyone above
the age of 10, and are out of date the minute you buy them, is poor
economics..

Depends, you would have to show the figures, given say that most people
already have a home PC, TV and DVD player.

Its like the old adage about "how to I get to xxx", "well I wouldn't
start from here".

I think you are well off the mark on obscelecence too.

Far better that you have the complete flexibility of a PC in the
living room giving communal /family access to the net / email / TV /
DVD / MP3 / games etc etc, and network it (via wireless) to others
(elsewhere) for private use.

May be a slight issue with configuration control... but what's new.

The ideal device will may well be PC based, but can you say it will have
its storage on the device, it may well end up that you have a single
server under the stairs and your settop box simply writes to this over
the network (increasingly likely to be WiFi - why use wires?) there are
new mobos that can do a lot more in bios without an OS, i.e. play DVDs
etc, surely DTT cards could support this, with bootp and the like, it may
well end up as something very unrecognisable as a PC. For family email,
surfing being done on barebones display tablets being driven by the box
under the stairs, mp3s, radios etc being just like radios but being wifi.
Then you are back to cheap commodity devices, the only complexity being
setting up the machine under the stairs - which need not be complex.

Who knows,

Steve

February 15th 04 05:43 PM

John Beeston

February 15th 04 07:43 PM

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..
Or you could take a view which says that investing in task specific
devices for the living room, which are too complex for anyone above
the age of 10, and are out of date the minute you buy them, is poor
economics..

Depends, you would have to show the figures, given say that most people
already have a home PC, TV and DVD player.

True, but perhaps the argument should come every time you look to replace
one of these items... should it be a more general device, and take over more
of the existing functionality.. I like the server under the stairs idea...

I think you are well off the mark on obscelecence too.

You could be right... I note that on-digital boxes may be coming back into
use...

All I know is that amongst my friends and neighbours considerable sums have
been spent over say the last 3 years to upgrade TV, recorders, DVD devices
and none of them do the job properly..

there are issues over

picture size ... short fat people on screen / long thin ones (less
frequently) involving manual screen reconfiguring ..
Scart interfaces on VCRs / DVDs holding onto TV control after VCR / DVD
has finished ..only solved by switching VCR / DVD off.
Incompatibilities in DVD regions / MP3s / Jpegs / writable CDs / writable
DVDs ( +r -R +RW -RW) / VCD / SVCD / home movies / MPEGs / DiVx

Perhaps you are right, perhaps it is not obscelecence, but rather the speed
at which the goalposts are moving ... Here am I looking to get digital TV
in MPEG2 and already people are looking at HDTV... I wonder how many years
it will be before that comes to this remote corner of Berkshire ...

Actually I know the answer to that... it will be 2 months .... after I
upgrade my kit

I would be far better going down the pub, and having a beer and a game of
dominoes ...

John Beeston

February 15th 04 07:43 PM

spadulata

February 21st 04 01:07 AM

Ian Clowes wrote in message ...
Initially it'll probably be a command line app, although I'd expect to
do a VB app or something that could call out to this and hence provide a
GUI interface of sorts. I might factor the code into DLLs so I can make
it a little more integrated.

This is excellent news. I think I'll hold off upgrading my disk if a
perfect archive is in the pipeline. Money saved for a DVD cutter -
thanks Ian!

I don't want to get ahead of things but... What's the best hardware
solution to go with this app? I guessing that an external usb2-ide
laptop drive holder could be butchered and fitted in the twin. What
baffles me is how to switch the drive between twin and usb. My only
idea is a 40-way switch - do they exist?

I for one would be
happy to pay for such an app.

I for two!

John Beeston

February 21st 04 07:05 PM

"spadulata" wrote in message
m...

I don't want to get ahead of things but... What's the best hardware
solution to go with this app? I guessing that an external usb2-ide
laptop drive holder could be butchered and fitted in the twin. What
baffles me is how to switch the drive between twin and usb. My only
idea is a 40-way switch - do they exist?

You could always fit removable drive bays to PACE and PC...

see

http://www.area450.com/thesampozone/...ctdrivebay.htm

John

Ian Clowes

February 23rd 04 08:49 AM

spadulata wrote:
I don't want to get ahead of things but... What's the best hardware
solution to go with this app?

Hi

I pop the top of the Twin and move the HD over to my PC using a drive
caddy so I don't have to open up the PC. A caddy plus 3.5" to 2.5" disk
adapter would cost around £20.

I guessing that an external usb2-ide
laptop drive holder could be butchered and fitted in the twin. What
baffles me is how to switch the drive between twin and usb. My only
idea is a 40-way switch - do they exist?

Neat idea. I've never used such an adapter, do they expsoe the drive
in a 'raw' format or expect it to be NTFS/VFAT, etc?

Not sure such switches exist, but you could probably fit a daughter
board inside the Twin so that you could unplug a cable from the Twin and
plug in the USB without having to physically remove the HD or deal with
cables connected directly to it.

Since this implies putting the Twin and PC next to each other a suitably
long IDE cable might be all that's needed. Not sure what the specs or
'best' results say about length of such a cable though.

I have considered moving the guts of teh Twin to a ATX case so a caddy
could be fitted Twin side too. I don't think there's space in the
standard case.

IanC

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

spadulata

February 24th 04 01:52 AM

Ian Clowes wrote in message ...
caddy so I don't have to open up the PC. A caddy plus 3.5" to 2.5" disk
adapter would cost around £20.

I think there are two approaches to this problem.
1) If you use a desktop PC which is possibly some distance from the
twin then I think the removable caddy drives is the best solution. It
just remains to see if someone is brave enough to fit one to a twin.
It has the added advantage that you can run your twin on the original
20gb drive while you're ripping your 80gb one in your PC.

2) If (like me) you use a laptop then it's much easier to take the
laptop to wherever the twin is. In this case the best solution
(barring wlan!) would be a usb port on the twin. This is where my idea
for switching the twin disk in situ to a usb2-ide adapter comes from.

If most people are in category one then I'll try to pursue 2. I think
my steps a

1) look in my laptop drive area to see if I can fit (dangle!) a slave
drive
2) check I can get the prog to work
3) get a usb2-2.5"ide external drive holder and see if the prog still
works
4) fit usb adapter into twin with some form of switch (still looking!)
5) check prog works - wire up interlock to stop twin powering up when
drive switched out
6) tidy up by fitting usb socket / switch into twin case
7) check prog works and wait for DVD+RW blanks to come down in
price!!!

Please chip in if you think I've missed anything or can find parts

Java Jive

February 24th 04 03:15 AM

Many laptops such as Compaqs and Thinkpads have so-called 'Ultrabay's which
can take a caddy for a laptop hard disk.

"spadulata" wrote in message
...
Ian Clowes wrote in message
...

2) If (like me) you use a laptop then it's much easier to take the
laptop to wherever the twin is. In this case the best solution
(barring wlan!) would be a usb port on the twin. This is where my idea
for switching the twin disk in situ to a usb2-ide adapter comes from.

If most people are in category one then I'll try to pursue 2. I think
my steps a

1) look in my laptop drive area to see if I can fit (dangle!) a slave
drive

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:25 AM.

Page 1 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page