Dropping back to 50Hz on Philips TVs
 

I like Philips TVs - They look good, the remote is easy to use etc etc...
but... I want a new 28" one with a decent amount ot teletext memory and none
of the 50Hz models seem to have any... so I started to look at the 100Hz
models - the Philips website make it nice and easy to find the manuals to
download but they're all pretty useless so - does anyone know if the
Philips 28PW9308C has a method of dropping back to a 50Hz mode if I find I
can't live with the 100Hz pixel plus widescreen plus gizmos?

"John W" wrote in message
...
I like Philips TVs - They look good, the remote is easy to use etc etc...
but... I want a new 28" one with a decent amount ot teletext memory and none
of the 50Hz models seem to have any... so I started to look at the 100Hz
models - the Philips website make it nice and easy to find the manuals to
download but they're all pretty useless so - does anyone know if the
Philips 28PW9308C has a method of dropping back to a 50Hz mode if I find I
can't live with the 100Hz pixel plus widescreen plus gizmos?


With digital text, the requirement for old style teletext is now regarded as
less important.
Old style teletext is becoming redundant.
Mike.



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"John W" wrote in message
...
I like Philips TVs - They look good, the remote is easy to use etc etc...
but... I want a new 28" one with a decent amount ot teletext memory and none
of the 50Hz models seem to have any... so I started to look at the 100Hz
models - the Philips website make it nice and easy to find the manuals to
download but they're all pretty useless so - does anyone know if the
Philips 28PW9308C has a method of dropping back to a 50Hz mode if I find I
can't live with the 100Hz pixel plus widescreen plus gizmos?


With digital text, the requirement for old style teletext is now regarded as
less important.
Old style teletext is becoming redundant.
Mike.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 14-Nov-2003

"Mike GW8IJT" wrote in message
...
"John W" wrote in message
...

With digital text, the requirement for old style teletext is now
regarded as
less important.
Old style teletext is becoming redundant.
Mike.


Good heavens I hope not. Menu-driven digital text is an absolute pain.
One has to sit for ages while the menus then the pages load. At least
with the analogue text you can flip through the pages quickly.
Nowadays in my house to read teletext and Ceefax pages is the only use
we have for the analogue TV transmissions.


Andereida

"Mike GW8IJT" wrote in message
...
"John W" wrote in message
...

With digital text, the requirement for old style teletext is now
regarded as
less important.
Old style teletext is becoming redundant.
Mike.


Good heavens I hope not. Menu-driven digital text is an absolute pain.
One has to sit for ages while the menus then the pages load. At least
with the analogue text you can flip through the pages quickly.
Nowadays in my house to read teletext and Ceefax pages is the only use
we have for the analogue TV transmissions.


Andereida

"Andereida" wrote in message
...

"Mike GW8IJT" wrote in message
...
"John W" wrote in message
...

With digital text, the requirement for old style teletext is now
regarded as
less important.
Old style teletext is becoming redundant.
Mike.


Good heavens I hope not. Menu-driven digital text is an absolute pain.
One has to sit for ages while the menus then the pages load. At least
with the analogue text you can flip through the pages quickly.
Nowadays in my house to read teletext and Ceefax pages is the only use
we have for the analogue TV transmissions.

Agreed - and until I have a digital box dedicated to teletext I can't watch
a channel and record it at the same time.... and where is the digital
version of Teletext on the Sky digital platform?... anyway - I'm getting
sidetracked - I know I want lots of memory - I've just gone from a set with
a 100 page memory to one with 6 pages and its a right pain!
The natural corollary to the "old style teletext is becoming redundant"
argument is that theres no point in getting a TV with a decent analogue
tuner in it either as this is becoming redundant.... speakers?... who needs
them?.. not with my shiny new surround sound system!

"Andereida" wrote in message
...

"Mike GW8IJT" wrote in message
...
"John W" wrote in message
...

With digital text, the requirement for old style teletext is now
regarded as
less important.
Old style teletext is becoming redundant.
Mike.


Good heavens I hope not. Menu-driven digital text is an absolute pain.
One has to sit for ages while the menus then the pages load. At least
with the analogue text you can flip through the pages quickly.
Nowadays in my house to read teletext and Ceefax pages is the only use
we have for the analogue TV transmissions.

Agreed - and until I have a digital box dedicated to teletext I can't watch
a channel and record it at the same time.... and where is the digital
version of Teletext on the Sky digital platform?... anyway - I'm getting
sidetracked - I know I want lots of memory - I've just gone from a set with
a 100 page memory to one with 6 pages and its a right pain!
The natural corollary to the "old style teletext is becoming redundant"
argument is that theres no point in getting a TV with a decent analogue
tuner in it either as this is becoming redundant.... speakers?... who needs
them?.. not with my shiny new surround sound system!

"John W" wrote in message
...
I like Philips TVs - They look good, the remote is easy to use etc etc...
but... I want a new 28" one with a decent amount ot teletext memory and
none
of the 50Hz models seem to have any... so I started to look at the 100Hz
models - the Philips website make it nice and easy to find the manuals to
download but they're all pretty useless so - does anyone know if the
Philips 28PW9308C has a method of dropping back to a 50Hz mode if I find I
can't live with the 100Hz pixel plus widescreen plus gizmos?



I haven't downloaded that manual, but on my set (with similar chassis) you
can switch of the 100Hz and picture processing. On pixel plus sets you can
switch that off too.

You may want to drop some of their processing (although the new pixel plus
is very good), but I doubt you will want to turn off the 100Hz, which simply
repaints all the screen twice as often from memory to remove flicker.
(actual transmission is 50Hz interlaced).

"John W" wrote in message
...
I like Philips TVs - They look good, the remote is easy to use etc etc...
but... I want a new 28" one with a decent amount ot teletext memory and
none
of the 50Hz models seem to have any... so I started to look at the 100Hz
models - the Philips website make it nice and easy to find the manuals to
download but they're all pretty useless so - does anyone know if the
Philips 28PW9308C has a method of dropping back to a 50Hz mode if I find I
can't live with the 100Hz pixel plus widescreen plus gizmos?



I haven't downloaded that manual, but on my set (with similar chassis) you
can switch of the 100Hz and picture processing. On pixel plus sets you can
switch that off too.

You may want to drop some of their processing (although the new pixel plus
is very good), but I doubt you will want to turn off the 100Hz, which simply
repaints all the screen twice as often from memory to remove flicker.
(actual transmission is 50Hz interlaced).

On 18/11/03 4:02 am, in article , "R.
Mark Clayton" wrote:


"John W" wrote in message
...
I like Philips TVs - They look good, the remote is easy to use etc etc...
but... I want a new 28" one with a decent amount ot teletext memory and
none
of the 50Hz models seem to have any... so I started to look at the 100Hz
models - the Philips website make it nice and easy to find the manuals to
download but they're all pretty useless so - does anyone know if the
Philips 28PW9308C has a method of dropping back to a 50Hz mode if I find I
can't live with the 100Hz pixel plus widescreen plus gizmos?



I haven't downloaded that manual, but on my set (with similar chassis) you
can switch of the 100Hz and picture processing. On pixel plus sets you can
switch that off too.

You may want to drop some of their processing (although the new pixel plus
is very good), but I doubt you will want to turn off the 100Hz, which simply
repaints all the screen twice as often from memory to remove flicker.
(actual transmission is 50Hz interlaced).

Ah - but that isn't what 100Hz TVs do - it certainly isn't as simple as just
displaying the picture twice... Because 50Hz TV broadcasts are interlaced,
and most 100Hz sets are also interlaced (if they were progressive they'd be
running at very high scanning rates) if they simply repeated every frame
twice you'd get repeated motion on video material (as there is motion
between the two 50Hz fields). If you simply repeated the fields twice you'd
get exaggerated vertical resolution loss, and more visible line structure.

What 100Hz TVs actually do is make up 2 new fields (or in some cases all 4
fields?) required to create a full 100Hz interlaced sequence from the 2
fields of the 50Hz source material. This is quite easy with film sourced
material (which is often why DVD sourced films look good on 100Hz TVs) but
much more difficult on video sourced material - especially that which
contains fast motion. All 100Hz TVs also need to digitise the analogue
video inputs (whether composite, S-video, component or RGB) and store it in
a frame store. Early TVs only used 6 bit processing and 3:1:1 sampling - so
the quality was truly awful. I would hope that all modern digital
processing TVs now use at least 8bits and 4:2:2 sampling - though more bits
should be used in the DSP that processes the picture. (10 bit sampling
would be good - though I believe that all domestic MPEG2 kit works at 8 bits
- extra sampling would reduce quantising noise on the repeated A/D and D/A
conversions?)

The common 100Hz artefacts are smearing or juddering on fast motion
(especially credit crawls and rolls)

It may reduce screen flicker - but it also quite significantly processes the
picture as well. Personally I have yet to see a 100Hz set that I can watch
without finding the processing artefacts objectionable - and I've looked at
a lot. This is VERY annoying if you want a high-end set with a decent
picture.

Certainly Pixel Plus, DIST, DRC etc are all noticable reducing some aspects
of the source picture quality - though they may superficially appear to
improve other aspects.

Steve