Discuss: An interesting week for media news
 

Discuss: An interesting week for media news:

Newsprint links:
http://logofreetv.org/?mode=newsfeed


- ITV and Channel 4 have bought more Astra 2D capacity.

- Dyke admits FREEVIEW was a ploy to scupper licence fee reform.

- The BBC admits:

Appearing before the public accounts committee for the first time earlier this week, Caroline Thomson, the director of policy and legal at the BBC, confirmed to MPs that while it costs £2 per licence fee payer a year to transmit an analogue signal and £3 a year to broadcast on digital satellite, licence fee payers shell out £7 a year for Freeview customers.

- Not new news but the Public Accounts Committee slams the BBC.

- OFCOM sets the Digital switch-over time table.

- Sky sells its 3 music channels.



and that's just the media village news which we have picked out as
interesting.


My comic moments of the week: Mark Mardell's batman sketch on "This
Week". Had a touch of "Nige and Stef" to it to cap a very surreal week
of news.




Most interesting speculation:

When will ITV and Channel 4 really announce that they will ditch Sky's
closed-architecture NDS encryption system in favour of true FTA (Free to
Air) broadcasting?

When the five UK PSB channels are on Astra 2D FTA then we know the
digital roller-coaster has passed the point of no return.




News Highlights:
http://logofreetv.org/?mode=newsfeed

Automated News captu
http://newsmine.logofreetv.org/








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NO LOGO wrote:

When will ITV and Channel 4 really announce that they will ditch Sky's
closed-architecture NDS encryption system in favour of true FTA (Free to
Air) broadcasting?

Dual-encryption would do and shouldn't be expensive to implement
either.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

"Jomtien" wrote in message


NO LOGO wrote:

When will ITV and Channel 4 really announce that they will ditch Sky's
closed-architecture NDS encryption system in favour of true FTA (Free to
Air) broadcasting?

Dual-encryption would do and shouldn't be expensive to implement
either.


Why do UK services on Astra 2D need encryption at all?

If the BBC can go FTA and is not over-paying for rights (not that we
will ever know due to the BBC's open and accountable closed accounting
system that is exempt from full Parliamentary and NAO scrutiny), in
theory the others should be able to follow now?

Now that a BBC stooge, Andy Duncan, is CEO of Channel 4, and former
"President" of "Freeview", it would be in his character to do something
dramatic for C4 such as move it to FTA satellite.

My guess is that BBC, ITV plc, C4 corporation, and C5 corporation will
only move FTA as part of a "marketing consortium" akin to the "freeview"
consortium otherwide FTA Satellite will be perceived as a cowboy outfit
like driveway contractors, plumbers, and small car mechanics.

I suspect the deal they will require is to find STB manufacturers,
possibly software vendors, marketing agents, contractor services, and
network of installers. There would be no point in them going back to
BSKYB for this as BSKYB would simply continue to impose its own terms.

By default, they will just leave the promotion of Freesat to Sky, but
then Sky has no intention of developing a Free to Air Satellite market.
Who's going to blink first?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of these boardrooms.


http://logofreetv.org/




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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:27:05 +0000 (UTC), "NO LOGO"
wrote:

Why do UK services on Astra 2D need encryption at all?

Because Astra 2D is easily receivable well into large parts of Europe
for which these channels do not hold the rights to broadcast
programming.

If the BBC can go FTA and is not over-paying for rights (not that we
will ever know

Exactly - you'll never know how much the BBC is over-paying. They're
doing it for the same reasons as GD has already admitted were the
motivation for Freeview - to try to get enough people watching on
equipment which CANNOT support encryption, thereby protecting the
BBC's enforced licence fee and ruling out any possibility of
encryption.

ITV, C4, C5, have no such motivations - for them, being FTA would
bring them no benefits (quite the reverse, in fact) and cost them
more. As commercial companies, they're not going to do the same thing.
They, unlike the BBC, have an obligation to their shareholders to
spend their money properly.

NO LOGO wrote:

Dual-encryption would do and shouldn't be expensive to implement
either.

Why do UK services on Astra 2D need encryption at all?

Those in favour of encryption would argue that overspill from 2D
covers a large English-speaking area and so a means must be found to
prevent viewers there from (easily) watching programmes that haven't
been paid for in that area by the UK broadcasters.

Those against would argue that anyone who wants to watch encrypted
transmissions outside the official area will just find a viewing card
and box anyway, which indeed they do.

I still think that dual-encryption would solve a lot of problems for
very little cost and would also have the benefit of encouraging Sky to
release a VideoGuard CAM, to the great benefit of all viewers and
manufacturers and broadcasters (except Sky).

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Zero Tolerance wrote:

ITV, C4, C5, have no such motivations - for them, being FTA would
bring them no benefits (quite the reverse, in fact)

I can think of several benefits of being FTA. Several million pounds
saving per year on encryption costs, the moral satisfaction and clean
feeling of no longer dealing with Sky (except for the EPG), the
greater revenue from advertising (there is no doubt that more people
potentially watch FTA channels than watch FTV channels, especially
when FTV cards aren't even available).


and cost them
more.

That supposes that rights would indeed cost them more. This has yet to
be demonstrated and could be circumvented by legislation anyway.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

I still think that dual-encryption would solve a lot of problems for
very little cost and would also have the benefit of encouraging Sky to
release a VideoGuard CAM, to the great benefit of all viewers and
manufacturers and broadcasters (except Sky).


....which $ky will never do without coercion and no political party has
either the wit nor will to see this through.

This leaves Free To Air as the only way for the UK's PSB broadcaster to
go IF they even consider FTA worthwhile.


http://logofreetv.org/


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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:57:24 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

I can think of several benefits of being FTA. Several million pounds
saving per year on encryption costs,

Outweighed by the increased cost of rights for acquired material,
the potential loss of audience when major events (e.g. football)
cannot be broadcast or acquired (as happened to the BBC)..

the moral satisfaction and clean
feeling of no longer dealing with Sky (except for the EPG),

BS doesn't pay the bills.

the greater revenue from advertising (there is no doubt that more people
potentially watch FTA channels than watch FTV channels, especially
when FTV cards aren't even available).

Not significant enough to make a difference.

That supposes that rights would indeed cost them more. This has yet to
be demonstrated and could be circumvented by legislation anyway.

In much the same way as King Canute's followers felt that a royal
commandment would stop the tide coming in. It just isn't that simple.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:52:12 +0000 (UTC), "NO LOGO"
wrote:

This leaves Free To Air as the only way for the UK's PSB broadcaster to
go IF they even consider FTA worthwhile.

No, because as Jomtien said, there is always the possibility of dual
encryption.

In article ,
says...
the moral satisfaction and clean
feeling of no longer dealing with Sky (except for the EPG),

BS doesn't pay the bills.

This is why I killfiled Jomtien a while back. He's a complete waste of blood
cells.
--

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/* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http://LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor),
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Zero Tolerance wrote:

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:52:12 +0000 (UTC), "NO LOGO"
wrote:

I still think that dual-encryption would solve a lot of problems for
very little cost and would also have the benefit of encouraging Sky
to release a VideoGuard CAM, to the great benefit of all viewers and
manufacturers and broadcasters (except Sky).

...which $ky will never do without coercion and no political party has
either the wit nor will to see this through.

This leaves Free To Air as the only way for the UK's PSB broadcaster to
go IF they even consider FTA worthwhile.

No, because as Jomtien said, there is always the possibility of dual
encryption.

With the snipped text reinserted, your reply makes it appear as though
you didn't read some of Mr. Logo's answer.

Luke


--
The above email address will work until spammed.

Dom Robinson wrote:

This is why I killfiled Jomtien a while back. He's a complete waste of blood
cells.

I am still astounded by the sort of poster who kill-files someone and
then posts purely to insult that person. A very unpleasant insight
into the workings of a warped mind. This is the stuff that Home Office
ministers are made of.

Worse, the kill-filer often has such a poor understanding of all
matters on-topic to the group than he really can't afford to kill-file
anyone at all. In this instance this is certainly the case.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Zero Tolerance wrote:

I can think of several benefits of being FTA. Several million pounds
saving per year on encryption costs,

Outweighed by the increased cost of rights for acquired material,
the potential loss of audience when major events (e.g. football)
cannot be broadcast or acquired (as happened to the BBC)..

As I said, it has yet to be demonstrated that there would be any such
problem.


the moral satisfaction and clean
feeling of no longer dealing with Sky (except for the EPG),

BS doesn't pay the bills.

the greater revenue from advertising (there is no doubt that more people
potentially watch FTA channels than watch FTV channels, especially
when FTV cards aren't even available).

Not significant enough to make a difference.

Given that the FTV channels' entire income comes from ads and that ad
income depends entirely on viewer figures this is clearly of the
greatest significance. The numbers could indeed be huge.


That supposes that rights would indeed cost them more. This has yet to
be demonstrated and could be circumvented by legislation anyway.

In much the same way as King Canute's followers felt that a royal
commandment would stop the tide coming in. It just isn't that simple.

It would be simplicity itself for the EU to legislate on this. Given
the amount of money that the rights owners spend on lobbying it is
unlikely, I admit. More's the pity.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:41:09 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Outweighed by the increased cost of rights for acquired material,
the potential loss of audience when major events (e.g. football)
cannot be broadcast or acquired (as happened to the BBC)..

As I said, it has yet to be demonstrated that there would be any such
problem.

The problems which have already occured speak for themselves.

Given that the FTV channels' entire income comes from ads and that ad
income depends entirely on viewer figures this is clearly of the
greatest significance. The numbers could indeed be huge.

No - the commercial value of a few hundred thousand extra homes is not
enough to make a significant difference to advertising revenue and
certainly not enough to cover the hugely increased costs of rights.
The difference is especially insignificant to channels like ITV, C4,
C5, which are already available in tens of millions of homes already.

Zero Tolerance wrote:

Given that the FTV channels' entire income comes from ads and that ad
income depends entirely on viewer figures this is clearly of the
greatest significance. The numbers could indeed be huge.

No - the commercial value of a few hundred thousand extra homes is not
enough to make a significant difference to advertising revenue and
certainly not enough to cover the hugely increased costs of rights.
The difference is especially insignificant to channels like ITV, C4,
C5, which are already available in tens of millions of homes already.

It isn't just a few hundred thousand. The difference in viewers
between FTV and FTA is more likely to be several million if one only
includes UK viewers or even tens of millions, if you take account the
overspill. And overspill viewers are indeed of interest to many
advertisers, whether the advertisers realise it or not.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 05:54:40 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

It isn't just a few hundred thousand. The difference in viewers
between FTV and FTA is more likely to be several million if one only
includes UK viewers

I find that hard to believe. Are you saying that in the UK right now
there are MILLIONS of viewers with satellite but no FTV card?

or even tens of millions, if you take account the
overspill. And overspill viewers are indeed of interest to many
advertisers, whether the advertisers realise it or not.

But it's the advertisers who pay the bills, and if they don't want
overspill viewers, they're not going to pay for them. Consider also
that the existing ad sales business of ITV and C4 is geared towards
regional and even micro-regional advertising. ITV has just bought
another two transponders largely to increase the number of
micro-regions that they serve. That kind of local advertising is
simply not designed to feed tens of millions of non-UK overspill
viewers. And any attempt to target non-UK viewers would immediately
bring back the rights issues again - they'd have no way to deny that
they were not intentionally beaming their channel outside the UK.

Even UK-national advertising is a problem for some advertisers who
have to include riders on their commercials saying that the product or
service is not available in some areas of the UK. And if you restrict
yourself just to ads which play well on a pan-European basis then you
suddenly have almost nothing left apart from Cars, Beer, Gillette, and
all the Euro-pudding grade of advertising that you generally only see
on Eurosport.

Zero Tolerance wrote:

It isn't just a few hundred thousand. The difference in viewers
between FTV and FTA is more likely to be several million if one only
includes UK viewers

I find that hard to believe. Are you saying that in the UK right now
there are MILLIONS of viewers with satellite but no FTV card?

No, I'm saying that by all counts there were about 1 million FTV cards
in use when the BBC stopped issuing them. Add the untold numbers of
expired subscription cards that still decode the FTV channels. Add the
untold numbers of people who did not renew their old FTV card early
this year when they still could and who have nothing, or who have had
to subscribe to Sky in order to get a card. Then compare that with the
actual number of people who have a valid FTV card today.


or even tens of millions, if you take account the
overspill. And overspill viewers are indeed of interest to many
advertisers, whether the advertisers realise it or not.

But it's the advertisers who pay the bills, and if they don't want
overspill viewers, they're not going to pay for them. Consider also
that the existing ad sales business of ITV and C4 is geared towards
regional and even micro-regional advertising. ITV has just bought
another two transponders largely to increase the number of
micro-regions that they serve. That kind of local advertising is
simply not designed to feed tens of millions of non-UK overspill
viewers.

Very many ads are indeed highly applicable to people outside the UK: I
know. They may be for goods that are sold outside the UK (almost
everything made by multinationals: from chocolate to bottled water to
newspapers to cars and financial services). They may be for goods that
aren't sold outside the UK but which may well interest viewers of UK
TV who live outside the UK, many of which will have close links to the
UK. I haven't lived in the UK for 30 years but I have a well-used bank
account with a UK bank in the UK. An ad for a competing bank may well
interest me.


And any attempt to target non-UK viewers would immediately
bring back the rights issues again - they'd have no way to deny that
they were not intentionally beaming their channel outside the UK.

There is a simple solution to this, which I mentioned previously.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 05:45:19 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

No, I'm saying that by all counts there were about 1 million FTV cards
in use when the BBC stopped issuing them. Add the untold numbers of
expired subscription cards that still decode the FTV channels. Add the
untold numbers of people who did not renew their old FTV card early
this year when they still could and who have nothing, or who have had
to subscribe to Sky in order to get a card. Then compare that with the
actual number of people who have a valid FTV card today.

I'm not entirely swayed, to be honest - people who couldn't be
bothered to get a new FTV card when they were available are probably
not THAT interested in viewing.

Very many ads are indeed highly applicable to people outside the UK: I
know. They may be for goods that are sold outside the UK (almost
everything made by multinationals: from chocolate to bottled water to
newspapers to cars and financial services).

Maybe so, but multinationals generally like to use different creative
in different markets. You need only look at the HSBC ads (which are
awfully good) to see why that's important to them and the idea of
pan-European advertising really doesn't excite them greatly.

And any attempt to target non-UK viewers would immediately
bring back the rights issues again - they'd have no way to deny that
they were not intentionally beaming their channel outside the UK.

There is a simple solution to this, which I mentioned previously.

But as I mentioned previously, King Canute didn't really believe he
could stop the tide coming in - he was proving a point to his
followers.

Zero Tolerance wrote:

I'm not entirely swayed, to be honest - people who couldn't be
bothered to get a new FTV card when they were available are probably
not THAT interested in viewing.

Take a look at Ebay to see how interested people are. FTV cards go
daily for £50.
Most people were totally unaware that replacement cards were
available, largely due to the fact that when the on-screen messages
first appeared they directed viewers to a Sky number where they were
told that no FTV cards were available (an outright lie) and that they
could subscribe, if they wanted to get the FTV channels.
Only much later did the right number appear on-screen, by which time
most people had rung the other number and been misinformed, so they
didn't try the new number. Even now, a day doesn't pass without some
cardless person ringing me to see what is happening with FTV cards.
Some would suggest that Sky did this deliberately.


Very many ads are indeed highly applicable to people outside the UK: I
know. They may be for goods that are sold outside the UK (almost
everything made by multinationals: from chocolate to bottled water to
newspapers to cars and financial services).

Maybe so, but multinationals generally like to use different creative
in different markets. You need only look at the HSBC ads (which are
awfully good) to see why that's important to them and the idea of
pan-European advertising really doesn't excite them greatly.

On the contrary. Most multinational brands use the same ads throughout
Europe, with just the voice-overs etc. dubbed. I see dozens of these
daily.


And any attempt to target non-UK viewers would immediately
bring back the rights issues again - they'd have no way to deny that
they were not intentionally beaming their channel outside the UK.

There is a simple solution to this, which I mentioned previously.

But as I mentioned previously, King Canute didn't really believe he
could stop the tide coming in - he was proving a point to his
followers.

What has this to do with a solution?

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:47:34 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Zero Tolerance wrote:

I'm not entirely swayed, to be honest - people who couldn't be
bothered to get a new FTV card when they were available are probably
not THAT interested in viewing.

Take a look at Ebay to see how interested people are. FTV cards go
daily for £50.

I had a quick look. There are currently 45 Sky viewing cards for sale on
www.ebay.co.uk Hardly an enormous number & the prices are quite low given the
small number for sale so obviously the demand is not high.

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:47:34 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Take a look at Ebay to see how interested people are. FTV cards go
daily for £50.

Yes, but we're talking about a handful of people - not hundreds of
thousands or the millions that you're talking about.

Most people were totally unaware that replacement cards were
available, largely due to the fact that when the on-screen messages
first appeared they directed viewers to a Sky number where they were
told that no FTV cards were available (an outright lie) and that they
could subscribe, if they wanted to get the FTV channels.

That was the information which was correct at the time, though - not a
lie by any stretch of the imagination.

Only much later did the right number appear on-screen, by which time
most people had rung the other number and been misinformed, so they
didn't try the new number. Even now, a day doesn't pass without some
cardless person ringing me to see what is happening with FTV cards.
Some would suggest that Sky did this deliberately.

Some would say anything to get their licks in, no matter how untrue.

On the contrary. Most multinational brands use the same ads throughout
Europe, with just the voice-overs etc. dubbed. I see dozens of these
daily.

Some. On occasion. Most time the television advertising in each part
of Europe varies wildly and there is little similarity.

But as I mentioned previously, King Canute didn't really believe he
could stop the tide coming in - he was proving a point to his
followers.

What has this to do with a solution?

It highlights that you can say "the problem of my feet getting wet can
easily be solved by stopping the tide coming in", but in reality it is
not easy and not a solution, it's just talk.

Nigel Barker wrote:

Take a look at Ebay to see how interested people are. FTV cards go
daily for £50.

I had a quick look. There are currently 45 Sky viewing cards for sale on
www.ebay.co.uk Hardly an enormous number & the prices are quite low given the
small number for sale so obviously the demand is not high.

For something that most people got for free this seems quite a market
to me. It may also be that the demand is indeed high but the supply is
getting weak.

Also it's possible that more people are now aware that official cards
will be available again soon for £20.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Zero Tolerance wrote:

Most people were totally unaware that replacement cards were
available, largely due to the fact that when the on-screen messages
first appeared they directed viewers to a Sky number where they were
told that no FTV cards were available (an outright lie) and that they
could subscribe, if they wanted to get the FTV channels.

That was the information which was correct at the time, though - not a
lie by any stretch of the imagination.

No, that was an outright lie. The wrong number was on the screen for
many weeks and no accurate FTV information was available from that
number. Anyone ringing the right number could get themselves an FTV
card for £23.50, but not by following the directions on-screen.


Only much later did the right number appear on-screen, by which time
most people had rung the other number and been misinformed, so they
didn't try the new number. Even now, a day doesn't pass without some
cardless person ringing me to see what is happening with FTV cards.
Some would suggest that Sky did this deliberately.

Some would say anything to get their licks in, no matter how untrue.

I suggest that you search back in Google to see what the situation was
at that time, if your memory is so poor.
For what it's worth, I never lie. I don't need to.


On the contrary. Most multinational brands use the same ads throughout
Europe, with just the voice-overs etc. dubbed. I see dozens of these
daily.

Some. On occasion. Most time the television advertising in each part
of Europe varies wildly and there is little similarity.

Not at all. Many TV adverts come from multinationals and most of them
use the same material in most EU countries. Ask the advertising
industry.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 06:24:37 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Nigel Barker wrote:

Take a look at Ebay to see how interested people are. FTV cards go
daily for £50.

I had a quick look. There are currently 45 Sky viewing cards for sale on
www.ebay.co.uk Hardly an enormous number & the prices are quite low given the
small number for sale so obviously the demand is not high.

For something that most people got for free this seems quite a market
to me. It may also be that the demand is indeed high but the supply is
getting weak.

Then normal market economics would force the price up. This is not happening.

Also it's possible that more people are now aware that official cards
will be available again soon for £20.

Possibly but I suspect that the demand for FTV cards for UK residents is
infinitesimal. Possibly more demand from ex-pats & other overseas viewers. Now
that the BBC are FTA I would guess that the demand for cards has fallen.

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

Jomtien penned this response in uk.media.tv.misc to a possibly
pointless meandering on Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:47:34 GMT:

Take a look at Ebay to see how interested people are. FTV cards go
daily for £50.

When the going rate for second-hand goods on eBay is frequently
greater than what the same goods can be bought for *brand new*, then
we can safely conclude that eBay pricings and demand are indicative of
nothing more than the idiocy of the users...

--
contact:
"In your day you were slacking if you didn't get in a
couple of genocides before breakfast."

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:47:34 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Most people were totally unaware that replacement cards were
available, largely due to the fact that when the on-screen messages
first appeared they directed viewers to a Sky number where they were
told that no FTV cards were available (an outright lie) and that they
could subscribe, if they wanted to get the FTV channels.

Only much later did the right number appear on-screen, by which time
most people had rung the other number and been misinformed, so they
didn't try the new number. Even now, a day doesn't pass without some
cardless person ringing me to see what is happening with FTV cards.
Some would suggest that Sky did this deliberately.

This is exactly what happened with me. Eventually I did some research,
found out exactly what the position was and pouted. ;)

Fiona

Nigel Barker wrote:

For something that most people got for free this seems quite a market
to me. It may also be that the demand is indeed high but the supply is
getting weak.

Then normal market economics would force the price up. This is not happening.

There is obviously an upper limit to the price of these cards. For
£150 you can get a year's sub to Sky, which leaves you with an FTV
card.


Also it's possible that more people are now aware that official cards
will be available again soon for £20.

Possibly but I suspect that the demand for FTV cards for UK residents is
infinitesimal. Possibly more demand from ex-pats & other overseas viewers. Now
that the BBC are FTA I would guess that the demand for cards has fallen.

I disagree. Otherwise why would Sky be launching the new FTV cards?
They are only doing it because there is a demand, and Ofcom are
presumably only concerned about it because they have received many
complaints.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

The Reverend Bob wrote:

Take a look at Ebay to see how interested people are. FTV cards go
daily for £50.

When the going rate for second-hand goods on eBay is frequently
greater than what the same goods can be bought for *brand new*, then
we can safely conclude that eBay pricings and demand are indicative of
nothing more than the idiocy of the users...

Having sold many DVDs myself on Ebay for more than the price I paid
for them, I can only agree.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 05:08:20 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Nigel Barker wrote:

For something that most people got for free this seems quite a market
to me. It may also be that the demand is indeed high but the supply is
getting weak.

Then normal market economics would force the price up. This is not happening.

There is obviously an upper limit to the price of these cards. For
£150 you can get a year's sub to Sky, which leaves you with an FTV
card.

Not an option for the overseas viewers who I suspect are the main purchasers of
these cards on Ebay.

Also it's possible that more people are now aware that official cards
will be available again soon for £20.

Possibly but I suspect that the demand for FTV cards for UK residents is
infinitesimal. Possibly more demand from ex-pats & other overseas viewers. Now
that the BBC are FTA I would guess that the demand for cards has fallen.

I disagree. Otherwise why would Sky be launching the new FTV cards?
They are only doing it because there is a demand, and Ofcom are
presumably only concerned about it because they have received many
complaints.

Are Sky launching FTV cards? From what I read they are proposing the old deal of
a subsidised box tied to the phone line plus an FTV card. They want to try &
install a digibox into those households who dislike the idea of having a Sky
subscription. Once they are signed up & have the phone line connected then Sky
bombard them with publicity about subscribing & using PPV & interactive
services. That is how they propose to make money out of the deal. They are
trying to create a demand not answer one that exists

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 06:24:38 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

I suggest that you search back in Google to see what the situation was
at that time, if your memory is so poor.

(Sigh)

OK Jomtien, whatever you say...

Nigel Barker wrote:

There is obviously an upper limit to the price of these cards. For
£150 you can get a year's sub to Sky, which leaves you with an FTV
card.

Not an option for the overseas viewers who I suspect are the main purchasers of
these cards on Ebay.

It is indeed an option for anyone who has the use of a UK address. In
my experience of many hundreds of overseas installations everyone who
wants UK TV has the use of such an address, or knows someone who does.
I also suspect that there are indeed many UK residents who use FTV
cards but they probably tend to find them more in car boot sales and
by word of mouth, being local. Even so, a quick look at the profile of
Ebay bidders reveals that many are indeed UK based.


Also it's possible that more people are now aware that official cards
will be available again soon for £20.

Possibly but I suspect that the demand for FTV cards for UK residents is
infinitesimal. Possibly more demand from ex-pats & other overseas viewers. Now
that the BBC are FTA I would guess that the demand for cards has fallen.

I disagree. Otherwise why would Sky be launching the new FTV cards?
They are only doing it because there is a demand, and Ofcom are
presumably only concerned about it because they have received many
complaints.

Are Sky launching FTV cards?

Yes. There will be two options: "free" box + card + 12 month phone
connection for £150 and just the card for about £20.

This is basically exactly what has been available for the last 5
years, with the continuation of the fee for the card that was
introduced late last year.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)