Is this legal?
 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ategory=46 96

Advert reads:

You are bidding on FREE SKY CHANNELS AVAILABLE NOW !! Want to watch the
latest films,sport and adult channels for free?? This is totally legal.Even
includes pay per view events. This takes seconds to set up and only needs to
be done once. If you can use the sky remote you can set this up in seconds.


This info gives you a step by step guide in setting up your digibox in
seconds!!!! P&P IS FREE AS ALL INFO IS SENT BY E-MAIL Save £££s on pay per
view sporting events save ££££s on adult channels This one really works!!!
To good to be true? Why not try it and gain some valued information.

PAYPAL PAYMENTS ONLY Upon winning this item and payments made I will email
this item to you. ** NO POSTAGE TO PAY **

"This takes seconds to set up and only needs to be done once. If you can use
the sky remote you can set this up in seconds"

He'll be selling information on how to change channel's or something daft
like that.

S


"Nick" wrote in message
...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...category=46 9
6

Advert reads:

You are bidding on FREE SKY CHANNELS AVAILABLE NOW !! Want to watch the
latest films,sport and adult channels for free?? This is totally
legal.Even
includes pay per view events. This takes seconds to set up and only needs
to
be done once. If you can use the sky remote you can set this up in
seconds.


This info gives you a step by step guide in setting up your digibox in
seconds!!!! P&P IS FREE AS ALL INFO IS SENT BY E-MAIL Save £££s on pay per
view sporting events save ££££s on adult channels This one really works!!!
To good to be true? Why not try it and gain some valued information.

PAYPAL PAYMENTS ONLY Upon winning this item and payments made I will email
this item to you. ** NO POSTAGE TO PAY **

"Sima" wrote in message
...
"This takes seconds to set up and only needs to be done once. If you can
use
the sky remote you can set this up in seconds"

He'll be selling information on how to change channel's or something daft
like that.

Isn' this the old "disconnect" the digibox from the telephone trick (using a
PBX setting) so that the Pay-Per-View charges cannot be phone through? Only
problem is that you can only run up a bill of £50 before the SIM will deny
this service until the phone line is reconnects to SKY. IIRC the charges
will remain in the SIM until you reconnect (and if you don't you can only
run up a bill of £50 until you get a new card presumably).

Enlighten me please, how the heck do you do this?


"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message
...
Gordon Brown . wrote:
: PBX setting) so that the Pay-Per-View charges cannot be phone through?
Only
: problem is that you can only run up a bill of £50 before the SIM will
deny
: this service until the phone line is reconnects to SKY. IIRC the charges
: will remain in the SIM until you reconnect (and if you don't you can
only
: run up a bill of £50 until you get a new card presumably).

It is almost certainly this and it also isn't necessarily £50 either!!!
Sky set the smartcard limit.

Nick wrote:

PAYPAL PAYMENTS ONLY

These three words translate directly to "scam".

This vendor is never going to reveal his name or address and probably
uses a hotmail email account. He is going to take the money and run,
like nearly all "Paypal only" vendors.

Paypal is a conman's charter and should be closed down.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:52:52 GMT, Jomtien wrote:



Paypal is a conman's charter and should be closed down.

I've used paypal many times and never had any problem.

K wrote:

Paypal is a conman's charter and should be closed down.

I've used paypal many times and never had any problem.

I'm sure that you have but that doesn't affect what I wrote. There are
other options for honest users like you but PayPal is still ideally
suited for the dishonest.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:54:51 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

K wrote:

Paypal is a conman's charter and should be closed down.

I've used paypal many times and never had any problem.

I'm sure that you have but that doesn't affect what I wrote. There are
other options for honest users like you but PayPal is still ideally
suited for the dishonest.

Damned convenient though (for us law-abiding citizens I hasten to add:-)

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Nick wrote:

PAYPAL PAYMENTS ONLY

These three words translate directly to "scam".

This vendor is never going to reveal his name or address and probably
uses a hotmail email account. He is going to take the money and run,
like nearly all "Paypal only" vendors.

Paypal is a conman's charter and should be closed down.

But PayPal operates through the current financial system so is no less
accountable than any other form of payment.

The buyer pays using a credit card - so is protected by that
In the UK the seller must transfer the money paid into a bank account - so that
is traced too.

Paypal isn't used notes in brown envelopes.
There's no cash involved.

If you feel the seller has committed fraud then the police have a very clear
trail to the seller.
What's the problem?

Loz

Paypal is a conman's charter and should be closed down.

I've used paypal many times and never had any problem.

I'm sure that you have but that doesn't affect what I wrote. There are
other options for honest users like you but PayPal is still ideally
suited for the dishonest.

Pay-as-you-go mobile phones that don't require any name and address
details registered to them (which they have to do now in France, I
believe) are an absolute marvellous thing for criminals. Does that
mean that PAYG mobiles should be banned?

Unfortunately, anything that can be used by honest people can also be
used by dishonest people. That is not the fault of the service, but
the user. Personally, I find PayPal very useful, as I don't have to
find a chequebook, an envelople, a stamp, send it, wait an extra week
while it clears, etc.

Now, the *charges* that PayPal make to people to get the money that's
been paid to them, that's another matter.

Simon Kempster

"Simon Kempster" wrote in message
om...
Unfortunately, anything that can be used by honest people can also be
used by dishonest people. That is not the fault of the service, but
the user. Personally, I find PayPal very useful, as I don't have to
find a chequebook, an envelople, a stamp, send it, wait an extra week
while it clears, etc.

Now, the *charges* that PayPal make to people to get the money that's
been paid to them, that's another matter.


Actually a company I worked for looked into setting up a facility to taking
credit and debit cards directly. The bank wanted to charge a setup fee of
several hundred pound and an annual renewal fee not much cheaper than the
setup fees! Then there is the "commission" per transaction of around 2.5% to
3.5% for Credit Cards (depeding on transaction volumes and whether it is
online or face-to-face). Then there is all the equipment to buy or rent.

PayPal transaction charges are not much higher than the figures quote
(albeit there is a fixed 20p per transaction), but significantly cheaper and
faster to setup particularly for the smaller business and offers no better
or worse security to taking CC directly as far as I can see.

In uk.media.tv.sky on Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Simon Kempster wrote :

Pay-as-you-go mobile phones that don't require any name and address
details registered to them (which they have to do now in France, I
believe) are an absolute marvellous thing for criminals. Does that
mean that PAYG mobiles should be banned?

Unfortunately, anything that can be used by honest people can also be
used by dishonest people. That is not the fault of the service, but
the user.

This is on aspect of culture that is completely opposite between America
& Britain.

The American attitude seems to be : sell what you like & let the market
(or a jury) decide, whereas in Britain it's : sell nothing that can
potentially help criminals, and civil liberties can get ****ed.
--
Paul 'US Sitcom Fan' Hyett

Gordon Brown wrote:

PayPal transaction charges are not much higher than the figures quote
(albeit there is a fixed 20p per transaction), but significantly cheaper and
faster to setup particularly for the smaller business and offers no better
or worse security to taking CC directly as far as I can see.

In the case of CC fraud there is some comeback on the fraudster and he
can be traced directly by the banks.

This is not possible with PayPal.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Simon Kempster wrote:

I'm sure that you have but that doesn't affect what I wrote. There are
other options for honest users like you but PayPal is still ideally
suited for the dishonest.

Pay-as-you-go mobile phones that don't require any name and address
details registered to them (which they have to do now in France, I
believe) are an absolute marvellous thing for criminals. Does that
mean that PAYG mobiles should be banned?

This is a rather different matter. No one can steal from me directly
by using a mobile phone. Someone can (and they do, often) start a fake
auction, get the money via PayPal and then vanish without supplying
the goods. In this respect PayPal is severely flawed. If they want to
be allowed to keep it running then they (Ebay) must be made to accept
full responsibility for abuse and compensate users accordingly. This
should be what the fee is for.

And these anonymous mobile phones that you mention will soon be made
illegal throughout the EU.


Unfortunately, anything that can be used by honest people can also be
used by dishonest people. That is not the fault of the service, but
the user.

Yes, but you must see the difference between the two. Only money
transfer systems require regulation as far as I'm concerned as only
money transfer systems allow money to be transferred from me. I don't
care about whether mobile phone users are registered or not: it's
pointless anyway.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

loz wrote:

If you feel the seller has committed fraud then the police have a very clear
trail to the seller.
What's the problem?

There are several.

One is that if the vendor (if he can be found) says "Oh, I fully
intend to send the goods" then the police can do little. It becomes a
civil debt. Only if there are myriad instances with one vendor will
the police become involved.

Another problem is that to trace the vendor you must rely on PayPal.
They do not go out of their way to help. In fact they go out of their
way not to help.

If you have sent a cheque then it can be traced, as can the address to
which it has been sent. PayPal is largely nameless and address-less.

If you have paid by CC then you need merely initiate a chargeback, and
if that fails then the CC company will absorb the loss anyway.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Another problem is that to trace the vendor you must rely on PayPal.
They do not go out of their way to help. In fact they go out of their
way not to help.

Agreed on this point, PayPal is not very helpful at all, but could this
because of the Data Protection Act? I mean if the Police could not keep
records (or disclose them as in a recent famous case with a caretaker...)?

If you have sent a cheque then it can be traced, as can the address to
which it has been sent. PayPal is largely nameless and address-less.

While this statement is true, the fact of the matter is you can always get
the address of the buyer/seller from Ebay. After all, what is the point for
buyer to make a purchase and a payment supplying a fake address? How would
the buyer receive the goods (even if they are using a fake CC)? Of course
this may be a slightly different case for a fake seller as they may have
registered a fake address with Ebay. However if their listing permits
cheques then there is a good probability that the address is real - watch
out for PayPal only listings.

If you have paid by CC then you need merely initiate a chargeback, and
if that fails then the CC company will absorb the loss anyway.

This could still be the case if you pay for goods with your CC via PayPal. I
do not see why the CC could not make a chargeback in the same way if you had
paid the merchant directly via telephone. Not tried this myself (had no need
thus far).

If all else fails use the Ebay Buyer protection scheme although you will
lose the initial £15 (admin fee?) and also you can only claim to a maximum
value of £120.

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...

This is a rather different matter. No one can steal from me directly
by using a mobile phone. Someone can (and they do, often) start a fake
auction, get the money via PayPal and then vanish without supplying
the goods. In this respect PayPal is severely flawed. If they want to
be allowed to keep it running then they (Ebay) must be made to accept
full responsibility for abuse and compensate users accordingly. This
should be what the fee is for.

You seem to be confusing fake auctions with Paypal

How is paypal flawed if someone didn't send you the goods? That isn't paypals
fault.
I could say the same about any e-commerce, telesales, or door to door
salesperson.
If they don't deliver the goods it is hardly the fault of the credit card
company is it?

Paypal know exactly what bank account they paid your money too.
And the bank should know (especially now) exactly who's account it is.

Loz

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Gordon Brown wrote:

PayPal transaction charges are not much higher than the figures quote
(albeit there is a fixed 20p per transaction), but significantly cheaper and
faster to setup particularly for the smaller business and offers no better
or worse security to taking CC directly as far as I can see.

In the case of CC fraud there is some comeback on the fraudster and he
can be traced directly by the banks.

This is not possible with PayPal.

Why isn't it possible?

As I said before, Paypal operates within the same financial system as the CC.
Paypal transfer money into the sellers bank account.
So the bank can trace them directly in just the same way

Loz

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:54:51 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

K wrote:

Paypal is a conman's charter and should be closed down.

I've used paypal many times and never had any problem.

I'm sure that you have but that doesn't affect what I wrote. There are
other options for honest users like you but PayPal is still ideally
suited for the dishonest.

Sorry I was mistaken. I realized as soon as I'd posted it and thought
I'd cancelled the usenet message but it obviously didn't work! Please
ignore my previous post. I've NEVER used Paypal and don't have an
account - I was confusing it with something else.

If you have paid by CC then you need merely initiate a chargeback,
and
if that fails then the CC company will absorb the loss anyway.

This could still be the case if you pay for goods with your CC via
PayPal. I do not see why the CC could not make a chargeback in the
same way if you had paid the merchant directly via telephone. Not
tried this myself (had no need thus far).


some people have had problems with this.
technically (according to some companies) you are paying paypal for a
service. the service has happened (ie give mr x £10). so some credit card
companies deny responsibility.

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...
This is on aspect of culture that is completely opposite between America
& Britain.

The American attitude seems to be : sell what you like & let the market
(or a jury) decide, whereas in Britain it's : sell nothing that can
potentially help criminals, and civil liberties can get ****ed.

Yes, this is quite true which often results with silly cases being
determined by jury, like the famous hot coffee case (and also hot apple pie
case).

I heard that writing a cheque which bounches in America is against the law.
And that is how it should be.

In uk.media.tv.sky on Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Gordon Brown wrote :

The American attitude seems to be : sell what you like & let the market
(or a jury) decide, whereas in Britain it's : sell nothing that can
potentially help criminals, and civil liberties can get ****ed.

Yes, this is quite true which often results with silly cases being
determined by jury, like the famous hot coffee case (and also hot apple pie
case).

I heard that writing a cheque which bounches in America is against the law.
And that is how it should be.

It might not be your fault though - what if a computer glitch prevents
your salary being paid in...
--
Paul 'US Sitcom Fan' Hyett

loz wrote:

You seem to be confusing fake auctions with Paypal

How is paypal flawed if someone didn't send you the goods? That isn't paypals
fault.

No, but it is PayPal's responsibility to ensure that payments can be
traced and can be refunded. This is what they don't do, and also
PayPal neatly makes vendors anonymous and address-less to the buyer,
the tax man, the VAT-man and the police. This is clearly why many
people opt for "'PayPal only" auctions. In fact I'm a little surprised
that PayPal doesn't fall foul of the money laundering regulations.


I could say the same about any e-commerce, telesales, or door to door
salesperson.
If they don't deliver the goods it is hardly the fault of the credit card
company is it?

Well, yes it is. This is precisely what UK consumer credit law
provides for and is precisely what PayPal doesn't provide for, though
they are quite happy to take a hefty commission on sales in return for
no real guarantees.

Also the banks and credit card companies are far more serious and
helpful when problems arise. PayPal are neither serious nor helpful
and this was covered on a recent Watchdog programme.


Paypal know exactly what bank account they paid your money too.
And the bank should know (especially now) exactly who's account it is.

Yes, but you still rely on PayPal giving out the info in the first
place (which they may not do), and that the vendor is still using the
bank account at that time. This is not a problem with credit cards and
is less of a problem if you have sent a cheque directly to a known
address.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Gordon Brown wrote:

Another problem is that to trace the vendor you must rely on PayPal.
They do not go out of their way to help. In fact they go out of their
way not to help.

Agreed on this point, PayPal is not very helpful at all, but could this
because of the Data Protection Act? I mean if the Police could not keep
records (or disclose them as in a recent famous case with a caretaker...)?

Money laundering regulations supposedly require that addresses and
identities are confirmed by bodies that transfer funds. For some
reason this doesn't seem to apply to PayPal to any great extent. I
don't know to what extent other laws prevent PayPal from releasing
information but the point is not why they are slow to do it but that
they are slow to do it. This bothers me.


If you have sent a cheque then it can be traced, as can the address to
which it has been sent. PayPal is largely nameless and address-less.

While this statement is true, the fact of the matter is you can always get
the address of the buyer/seller from Ebay. After all, what is the point for
buyer to make a purchase and a payment supplying a fake address? How would
the buyer receive the goods (even if they are using a fake CC)? Of course
this may be a slightly different case for a fake seller as they may have
registered a fake address with Ebay.

This of course was my point. Buyers would always give valid details.
Crooked vendors would be interested in anonymity.


However if their listing permits
cheques then there is a good probability that the address is real - watch
out for PayPal only listings.

Which was exactly what I said in my first post on the matter.


If you have paid by CC then you need merely initiate a chargeback, and
if that fails then the CC company will absorb the loss anyway.

This could still be the case if you pay for goods with your CC via PayPal. I
do not see why the CC could not make a chargeback in the same way if you had
paid the merchant directly via telephone. Not tried this myself (had no need
thus far).

This is the problem. When this happens (and it does happen) PayPal
usually attempt to show that they have performed their part of the
bargain (receive cash and transfer to third party) and so the CC
company has no cause to proceed with the chargeback. That the vendor
hasn't done his bit is neither here nor there under law as that is
another transaction. And this is why PayPal should be obliged to
accept full responsibility for purchases and should provide full
refunds when things go wrong. They do charge a hefty fee after all.
Let them do something for this.


If all else fails use the Ebay Buyer protection scheme although you will
lose the initial £15 (admin fee?) and also you can only claim to a maximum
value of £120.

If indeed they pay out anything at all. There is a lot of small print
and they have the final say.
I have no faith whatsoever in the current system.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

loz wrote:

In the case of CC fraud there is some comeback on the fraudster and he
can be traced directly by the banks.

This is not possible with PayPal.

Why isn't it possible?

As I said before, Paypal operates within the same financial system as the CC.
Paypal transfer money into the sellers bank account.
So the bank can trace them directly in just the same way

No, the banks can't trace anything at all. Only PayPal know how the
payments move about. This is the problem: banks are heavily regulated
and are serious organisations. PayPal is neither.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

K wrote:

Sorry I was mistaken. I realized as soon as I'd posted it and thought
I'd cancelled the usenet message but it obviously didn't work!

Your cancel probably did propagate but my server doesn't honour
cancels so I would always see your message.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:13:06 -0000, "Gordon Brown" . wrote:

I heard that writing a cheque which bounches in America is against the law.
And that is how it should be.

In France if you write bad cheques you get blacklisted by the Banque de France &
cannot hold a bank account until your debts are cleared. So a cheque is like
cash which is why there is no need for cheque guarantee cards although normally
you are asked for your ID card.

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
loz wrote:

In the case of CC fraud there is some comeback on the fraudster and he
can be traced directly by the banks.

This is not possible with PayPal.

Why isn't it possible?

As I said before, Paypal operates within the same financial system as the CC.
Paypal transfer money into the sellers bank account.
So the bank can trace them directly in just the same way

No, the banks can't trace anything at all. Only PayPal know how the
payments move about. This is the problem: banks are heavily regulated
and are serious organisations. PayPal is neither.

The bank knows it got a transfer from PayPal
The bank knows who's account it is transfered into

If the police want to trace some fraudelent activity via paypal I cant see the
problem
Unless paypal are deliberately uncooperative and destroy their records

Loz

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Gordon Brown wrote:

Another problem is that to trace the vendor you must rely on PayPal.
They do not go out of their way to help. In fact they go out of their
way not to help.

Agreed on this point, PayPal is not very helpful at all, but could this
because of the Data Protection Act? I mean if the Police could not keep
records (or disclose them as in a recent famous case with a caretaker...)?

Money laundering regulations supposedly require that addresses and
identities are confirmed by bodies that transfer funds. For some
reason this doesn't seem to apply to PayPal to any great extent. I
don't know to what extent other laws prevent PayPal from releasing
information but the point is not why they are slow to do it but that
they are slow to do it. This bothers me.

PayPal UK is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority as an
Electronic Money Institution.
Quote from FSA
"E-money issuers must have sound and prudent systems and adequate internal
control mechanisms and must comply with the FSA's money laundering
requirements."

Loz

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:58:50 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

No, but it is PayPal's responsibility to ensure that payments can be
traced and can be refunded. This is what they don't do, and also
PayPal neatly makes vendors anonymous and address-less to the buyer,
the tax man, the VAT-man and the police.

Have you ever actually used PayPal?

loz wrote:

No, the banks can't trace anything at all. Only PayPal know how the
payments move about. This is the problem: banks are heavily regulated
and are serious organisations. PayPal is neither.

The bank knows it got a transfer from PayPal
The bank knows who's account it is transfered into

Yes, but your bank doesn't know what happens after your money gets to
PayPal and only PayPal knows where it goes then. In a direct transfer
your bank knows the full route taken by your money.


If the police want to trace some fraudelent activity via paypal I cant see the
problem
Unless paypal are deliberately uncooperative and destroy their records

They certainly are uncooperative.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Nigel Barker wrote:

I heard that writing a cheque which bounches in America is against the law.
And that is how it should be.

In France if you write bad cheques you get blacklisted by the Banque de France &
cannot hold a bank account until your debts are cleared.

Never mind. You can always run for President.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Ant wrote:

No, but it is PayPal's responsibility to ensure that payments can be
traced and can be refunded. This is what they don't do, and also
PayPal neatly makes vendors anonymous and address-less to the buyer,
the tax man, the VAT-man and the police.

Have you ever actually used PayPal?

I very nearly did once but was put off by the sign-up procedure and
the small print of the so-called "guarantee". In fact the vendor that
I was intending to pay with PayPal (a "PayPal only" auction) promptly
did a flit owing many people a lot of money. So I was lucky.

--
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loz wrote:

Money laundering regulations supposedly require that addresses and
identities are confirmed by bodies that transfer funds. For some
reason this doesn't seem to apply to PayPal to any great extent. I
don't know to what extent other laws prevent PayPal from releasing
information but the point is not why they are slow to do it but that
they are slow to do it. This bothers me.

PayPal UK is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority as an
Electronic Money Institution.
Quote from FSA
"E-money issuers must have sound and prudent systems and adequate internal
control mechanisms and must comply with the FSA's money laundering
requirements."

And yet they do not verify identities directly as banks do.

BCCI was an authorised and regulated UK deposit taker too and look
what happened to that.

--
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----
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"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Have you ever actually used PayPal?

I very nearly did once but was put off by the sign-up procedure and
the small print of the so-called "guarantee". In fact the vendor that
I was intending to pay with PayPal (a "PayPal only" auction) promptly
did a flit owing many people a lot of money. So I was lucky.

As you didn't pay this seller via PayPal, how exactly did you confirm that
he "did a flit owing many people a lot of money"?

Also as this is PayPal only auction, presumably the buyers would have been
covered by the Ebay Buyer's protection scheme even if they could did not
successfully initial a charge back via their credit cards?

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:01:52 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Nigel Barker wrote:

I heard that writing a cheque which bounches in America is against the law.
And that is how it should be.

In France if you write bad cheques you get blacklisted by the Banque de France &
cannot hold a bank account until your debts are cleared.

Never mind. You can always run for President.

I can't as I'm not a citizen. I'm not even allowed to vote except in local
elections.

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:01:58 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

I very nearly did once but was put off by the sign-up procedure and
the small print of the so-called "guarantee". In fact the vendor that
I was intending to pay with PayPal (a "PayPal only" auction) promptly
did a flit owing many people a lot of money. So I was lucky.

A good reason to be very wary of auctions in general, certainly.

You might want to re-examine Paypal's terms and conditions, though -
they're now becoming registered in various territories (including the
UK) as proper 'money institutions' so there may be more guarantees
than in previous times.

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:32:04 -0000, "Gordon Brown" . wrote:

Also as this is PayPal only auction, presumably the buyers would have been
covered by the Ebay Buyer's protection scheme

That is almost useless - the last time I looked it only refunded you a
max of £110 on any transaction. You shouldered the first £15 of the
loss yourself, as well as anything over £125 if the transaction was
higher than that.

Nigel Barker wrote:

In France if you write bad cheques you get blacklisted by the Banque de France &
cannot hold a bank account until your debts are cleared.

Never mind. You can always run for President.

I can't as I'm not a citizen. I'm not even allowed to vote except in local
elections.

I meant "you" as in "one".

About the only option open to French crooks is to go into politics
where they would seem to be amongst friends.

--
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Ant wrote:

Also as this is PayPal only auction, presumably the buyers would have been
covered by the Ebay Buyer's protection scheme

That is almost useless - the last time I looked it only refunded you a
max of £110 on any transaction. You shouldered the first £15 of the
loss yourself, as well as anything over £125 if the transaction was
higher than that.

Quite. It also takes forever and requires much argument and
form-filling. And even after all that Ebay have the final say as to
whether they pay out or not and there is no appeal.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/yvnsy
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Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
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----
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No monies return'd. ;-)