Ant wrote:

No matter how you look at it those channels are pay on Sky and mostly
free elsewhere. "Pay on Sky" therefore being the odd one out.

Only if you ignore the channels that are free on Sky and pay elsewhere
- which you conveniently brush aside. Free channels, by the way, which
are a hell of a lot more interesting than foreign language services.

I don't brush anything aside at all. I mentioned that channel: it's
TCM. I even mentioned why it is FTA on Astra2: it's in order not to
give any more money to Sky than it need do (and to spite them).


Would they be part of the pay Sky service if they had no audience? I
doubt it. Bloomberg certainly has a big audience.

Do you have a source for that statement? Certainly comparable channels
on Sky - e.g. CNBC - have an audience so small that it cannot be shown
(according to the BARB website)

I know a lot of people who watch Bloomberg, including me. That's a
source, if you like. BARB figures are totally meaningless.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/tez5
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:04:15 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

I don't brush anything aside at all. I mentioned that channel: it's
TCM. I even mentioned why it is FTA on Astra2: it's in order not to
give any more money to Sky than it need do (and to spite them).

It's TCM, and the several other channels which I mentioned, and which
you continue to ignore.

You're also arguing against yourself again - if "many FTA channels on
Sky are encrypted solely to avoid the EPG fees" then TCM, if they
didn't want to give any more money to Sky than it needed to, would be
encrypted, wouldn't it? Again you're making statements you can't back
up.

I know a lot of people who watch Bloomberg, including me. That's a
source, if you like. BARB figures are totally meaningless.

I think BARB is generally considered to be a better indicator of the
viewing habits of the public than you and the people you know.

Ant wrote:

I don't brush anything aside at all. I mentioned that channel: it's
TCM. I even mentioned why it is FTA on Astra2: it's in order not to
give any more money to Sky than it need do (and to spite them).

It's TCM, and the several other channels which I mentioned, and which
you continue to ignore.

I ignore nothing. I commented on the other channels that you mentioned
and will do so again if you like: they are also mostly if not entirely
available elsewhere as FTA.


You're also arguing against yourself again - if "many FTA channels on
Sky are encrypted solely to avoid the EPG fees" then TCM, if they
didn't want to give any more money to Sky than it needed to, would be
encrypted, wouldn't it? Again you're making statements you can't back
up.

Small channels starting on Astra 2 often seem to get an offer of
free/cheap EPG placement and free/cheap encryption services if they
become part of the encrypted package. TCM don't come into this
category as they are neither small nor new and would probably expect
to be paid part of the monthly sub, like the other big encrypted
channels are. Given that TCM and Sky detest each other there wouldn't
be many cosy deals to be made anyway. TCM pay the going rate for an
EPG place because without it most people would be unaware that they
existed, not because they want to. I'm sure that if another solution
was available they would happily stop paying Sky for EPG placement
too. The same applies to the BBC and ITV, who also detest Sky.


I know a lot of people who watch Bloomberg, including me. That's a
source, if you like. BARB figures are totally meaningless.

I think BARB is generally considered to be a better indicator of the
viewing habits of the public than you and the people you know.

BARB does not extend outside the UK for a start. This by definition
makes all their figures wrong, especially when it comes to FTA
channels on both UK non-UK birds.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/tez5
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:19:02 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

I ignore nothing. I commented on the other channels that you mentioned
and will do so again if you like: they are also mostly if not entirely
available elsewhere as FTA.

And they are FTA on Sky and encrypted elsewhere, putting the lie to
your desperate argument.

Given that TCM and Sky detest each other

Do you have any evidence of that? You keep saying it, but that's all
you're doing - saying it.

The same applies to the BBC and ITV, who also detest Sky.

Perhaps 10 years ago, but I think you'll find things have changed
since then.

BARB does not extend outside the UK for a start. This by definition
makes all their figures wrong,

Er, no, it makes their figures relevant to the UK and nowhere else.
It doesn't make them wrong.

Ant wrote:

I ignore nothing. I commented on the other channels that you mentioned
and will do so again if you like: they are also mostly if not entirely
available elsewhere as FTA.

And they are FTA on Sky and encrypted elsewhere, putting the lie to
your desperate argument.

Look again. The channels that you mentioned are indeed mostly FTA
elsewhere. Only TCM isn't (well, actually it is FTA from time to time
on Hispasat).


Given that TCM and Sky detest each other

Do you have any evidence of that? You keep saying it, but that's all
you're doing - saying it.

The same applies to the BBC and ITV, who also detest Sky.

Perhaps 10 years ago, but I think you'll find things have changed
since then.

My word. This is the season of good will isn't it? You would be hard
put to find any broadcaster in the world who likes News Corp
subsidiaries, except other News Corp subsidiaries. And anyone can see
that Sky and the BBC detest each other with a rare fervour. Just look
at the hoo-haa over encryption, FTV cards and 2D signal over-spill,
where Fox alone seem to be bothered, and bothered enough to want to
sue.


BARB does not extend outside the UK for a start. This by definition
makes all their figures wrong,

Er, no, it makes their figures relevant to the UK and nowhere else.
It doesn't make them wrong.

It certainly does make them wrong in that they don't show the true
figures. Also I have my doubts about how representative the sample
really is, just as I have my doubts about all such marketing samples.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/tez5
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)