Sky+ and PC
 

Is there an option to transfer what you've recorded on your sky+ to your PC
for editing etc, and how?

"Pat Mustard" wrote in message
...
Is there an option to transfer what you've recorded on your sky+ to your PC
for editing etc, and how?



Only by recapturing on the PC the analog output from the Sky+ box.

Loz

"loz" wrote in message
...

"Pat Mustard" wrote in message
...
Is there an option to transfer what you've recorded on your sky+ to your
PC
for editing etc, and how?



Only by recapturing on the PC the analog output from the Sky+ box.

Loz

What happens when you put the Sky Plus HD into a PC...Can it be read? What
filesystem does it use? Can Linux read it?

I am told that you can see the files no problem but they are encrypted on
the disk and need the card to decrypt.

Michael


"Dean Jarratt" wrote in message
.. .
"loz" wrote in message
...

"Pat Mustard" wrote in
message
...
Is there an option to transfer what you've recorded on your sky+ to
your
PC
for editing etc, and how?



Only by recapturing on the PC the analog output from the Sky+ box.

Loz

What happens when you put the Sky Plus HD into a PC...Can it be read? What
filesystem does it use? Can Linux read it?

"Michael Hudson" wrote in message
...
I am told that you can see the files no problem but they are encrypted on
the disk and need the card to decrypt.

Michael

In which case, I'm assuming they can be cracked by someone willing to write
a utility to decrypt them...trust me there are always patterns that I
skilful individual can work out.

"Dean Jarratt" wrote in message
.. .
"loz" wrote in message
...

"Pat Mustard" wrote in
message
...
Is there an option to transfer what you've recorded on your sky+ to
your
PC
for editing etc, and how?



Only by recapturing on the PC the analog output from the Sky+ box.

Loz

What happens when you put the Sky Plus HD into a PC...Can it be read?
What
filesystem does it use? Can Linux read it?

On 18/11/03 10:24 am, in article
, "Dean Jarratt"
wrote:

"Michael Hudson" wrote in message
...
I am told that you can see the files no problem but they are encrypted on
the disk and need the card to decrypt.

Michael

In which case, I'm assuming they can be cracked by someone willing to write
a utility to decrypt them...trust me there are always patterns that I
skilful individual can work out.

Yep - but to do see they would need to have Sky's Videoguard encryption
system - as encrypted channels on Sky are recorded in their encrypted form
on the hard drive, and not de-crypted until playback. I suspect that many
people are working on hacking Sky - but not just to replay Sky+ recordings..

It would be interesting to see what happens on Sky+ recordings of BBC or
similarly un-encrypted channels.

Steve



"Dean Jarratt" wrote in message
.. .
"loz" wrote in message
...

"Pat Mustard" wrote in
message
...
Is there an option to transfer what you've recorded on your sky+ to
your
PC
for editing etc, and how?



Only by recapturing on the PC the analog output from the Sky+ box.

Loz

What happens when you put the Sky Plus HD into a PC...Can it be read?
What
filesystem does it use? Can Linux read it?

"Dean Jarratt" wrote in message
.. .
"Michael Hudson" wrote in
message
...
I am told that you can see the files no problem but they are encrypted
on
the disk and need the card to decrypt.

Michael

In which case, I'm assuming they can be cracked by someone willing to
write
a utility to decrypt them...trust me there are always patterns that I
skilful individual can work out.

Sure, but they havent been cracked yet, and Sky just changed its encryption
so its back to square one. What you omitted at the end of your statement was
'given enough time'. If the time is long enough then to all practical
purposes it cant be cracked.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..

"Dean Jarratt" wrote in message
.. .
"Michael Hudson" wrote in
message
...
I am told that you can see the files no problem but they are encrypted
on
the disk and need the card to decrypt.

Michael

In which case, I'm assuming they can be cracked by someone willing to
write
a utility to decrypt them...trust me there are always patterns that I
skilful individual can work out.

Sure, but they havent been cracked yet, and Sky just changed its
encryption
so its back to square one. What you omitted at the end of your statement
was
'given enough time'. If the time is long enough then to all practical
purposes it cant be cracked.

Herein lies the question...If someone recorded a Box Office movie, and then
transferred that to a seperate PC HD. They could then re-install the SKY+ HD
into the digibox and not watch it (hence not paying for it). They would
still have the copied encrypted file on their PC. The encryption could not
change, thus it gives a hacker all the time they need to decrypt the file
and play it.

Using this method a person could copy as many movies as possible until Sky
changed the encryption method. Once they did change the encryption method,
it would be possible to repeat the process again, and again give a hacker as
much time as needed to hack the new encryption.

"Dean Jarratt" wrote in message
.. .
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..

"Dean Jarratt" wrote in message
.. .
"Michael Hudson" wrote in
message
...
I am told that you can see the files no problem but they are
encrypted
on
the disk and need the card to decrypt.

Michael

In which case, I'm assuming they can be cracked by someone willing to
write
a utility to decrypt them...trust me there are always patterns that I
skilful individual can work out.

Sure, but they havent been cracked yet, and Sky just changed its
encryption
so its back to square one. What you omitted at the end of your statement
was
'given enough time'. If the time is long enough then to all practical
purposes it cant be cracked.

Herein lies the question...If someone recorded a Box Office movie, and
then
transferred that to a seperate PC HD. They could then re-install the SKY+
HD
into the digibox and not watch it (hence not paying for it). They would
still have the copied encrypted file on their PC. The encryption could not
change, thus it gives a hacker all the time they need to decrypt the file
and play it.

"All the time"? You are assuming that the encryption could be cracked in
someones lifetime. There are still russian coded messages from WWII that
havent been cracked!

You also appear to be wildly over estimating the point of doing this. Unless
the cracker can break the encryption within a year or so the movie will be
shown on a free channel anyway, plus it could always be downloaded off the
net or be bought as a pirate dvd for free way before its released on Box
Office (even before its at the cinema!). Why would this hypothetical hacker
waste their time doing this when they could get the movies for free or
minimal cost anyway?


Using this method a person could copy as many movies as possible until Sky
changed the encryption method. Once they did change the encryption method,
it would be possible to repeat the process again, and again give a hacker
as
much time as needed to hack the new encryption.

No, they wouldnt have as much time as they needed since if they cant crack
it within the time the encryption is chnaged, it wouldnt be worth it (By
definition all thsoe movies would be available for free by then). And since
the movie can be downloaded even before its shown at the cinema its hard to
see the value. The value of cracking it would be to get free access to SKy,
not just the movies. But again, that needs to be done within the timespan of
sky changing the algorithm, and bearing in mind the likely benefits compared
to the time you could spend doing other stuff.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..

Herein lies the question...If someone recorded a Box Office movie, and
then
transferred that to a seperate PC HD. They could then re-install the
SKY+
HD
into the digibox and not watch it (hence not paying for it). They would
still have the copied encrypted file on their PC. The encryption could
not
change, thus it gives a hacker all the time they need to decrypt the
file
and play it.

"All the time"? You are assuming that the encryption could be cracked in
someones lifetime. There are still russian coded messages from WWII that
havent been cracked!

You also appear to be wildly over estimating the point of doing this.
Unless
the cracker can break the encryption within a year or so the movie will be
shown on a free channel anyway, plus it could always be downloaded off the
net or be bought as a pirate dvd for free way before its released on Box
Office (even before its at the cinema!). Why would this hypothetical
hacker
waste their time doing this when they could get the movies for free or
minimal cost anyway?


Using this method a person could copy as many movies as possible until
Sky
changed the encryption method. Once they did change the encryption
method,
it would be possible to repeat the process again, and again give a
hacker
as
much time as needed to hack the new encryption.

No, they wouldnt have as much time as they needed since if they cant crack
it within the time the encryption is chnaged, it wouldnt be worth it (By
definition all thsoe movies would be available for free by then). And
since
the movie can be downloaded even before its shown at the cinema its hard
to
see the value. The value of cracking it would be to get free access to
SKy,
not just the movies. But again, that needs to be done within the timespan
of
sky changing the algorithm, and bearing in mind the likely benefits
compared
to the time you could spend doing other stuff.

Yes OK, if it takes a hacker too long to crack the encryption it would not
be worth it...it probably isn't worth it anyway because you can rent a DVD
for less than Box Office charges...but 'theoretically' it is possible to
defeat Sky in this way...

I believe that by giving access to read/write data, a utility could be
written and installed on the SKY+ HD which decrypts incoming signals, hence
taking away the need for a sky subscription and card.

"Dean Jarratt" wrote in message
.. .
Yes OK, if it takes a hacker too long to crack the encryption it would not
be worth it...it probably isn't worth it anyway because you can rent a DVD
for less than Box Office charges...but 'theoretically' it is possible to
defeat Sky in this way...

Sky certainly seem to have managed to deliver a very secure delivery mechanism
that so far has resisted any hacking attempts.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anyone to do it.

I believe that by giving access to read/write data, a utility could be
written and installed on the SKY+ HD which decrypts incoming signals, hence
taking away the need for a sky subscription and card.

Except that process would appear to be very complex, else it would have been
done by now.
The market is clearly lucrative enough to attract the best hackers, yet no one
has come close AFAIK.
Remember that Sky uses a complex mixture of software and hardware for its
encryption.
And installing your own program to run on Sky+ takes a lot more than just
cracking the encryption routine.

Loz

In article , Dean Jarratt wrote:
I believe that by giving access to read/write data, a utility could be
written and installed on the SKY+ HD which decrypts incoming signals, hence
taking away the need for a sky subscription and card.


In principle, yes.

In practice... I don't know what approach is taken by Sky to the encryption,
but I do understand software encryption via public/private key exchange. The
critical difference between Sky transmissions and a fixed encrypted media (eg
DVD) is that Sky are free to change the encryption key whenever they feel
like it, or even the encryption mechanism, since they control both ends of
the transaction. Hence I think it's complete non-starter - even if someone
did crack today's mechanism or key, they'd just switch to a new one via a
software update.

--

F

"Ferger" wrote in message
...
In article , Dean Jarratt wrote:
I believe that by giving access to read/write data, a utility could be
written and installed on the SKY+ HD which decrypts incoming signals, hence
taking away the need for a sky subscription and card.


In principle, yes.

In practice... I don't know what approach is taken by Sky to the encryption,
but I do understand software encryption via public/private key exchange. The
critical difference between Sky transmissions and a fixed encrypted media (eg
DVD) is that Sky are free to change the encryption key whenever they feel
like it, or even the encryption mechanism, since they control both ends of
the transaction. Hence I think it's complete non-starter - even if someone
did crack today's mechanism or key, they'd just switch to a new one via a
software update.

and they can factor the serial number of the specific instance of hardware (the
sky box) into the algorithm making it very complex.

loz