Nigel Barker wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:24:05 GMT, Jomtien wrote:

Ben wrote:

You don't even have to tell them what
electrical items you've got so if you buy a new TV, Video, Sky+ box
they're all automatically covered.

I suspect that PVRs will soon be excluded on the grounds of normal
wear. Hard drives will wear out after a few months/years, just like
toner cartridges or VHS tapes. Your insurance won't cover those
either.

The Mean Time Between Failures of hard disk drives is in the order of
100 years. Why would you expect it to fail after months? On average
for every one that fails after months there must be another one that
far exceeds the average MTBF.

There are a number of reports of Tivo and Sky+ hard drives failing - I think
this is because the discs are running continuously (and in the case of Tivo
recording continuously) Certainly Tivo upgraders are favouring hard drives
with 3 year rather than 1 year warranties - with Hitachi/IBM drives being
the least popular for reliability.

Are the MTBF figures for "average" usage patterns or for continuous
operation?

Steve

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:05:51 -0000, "Stephen Neal"
wrote:

There are a number of reports of Tivo and Sky+ hard drives failing

That's because they're made by Maxtor. :-)

I think
this is because the discs are running continuously (and in the case of Tivo
recording continuously)

I don't think so - hard discs run for years and years in computers,
there's no reason why PVRs should be any different.

Ant wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:05:51 -0000, "Stephen Neal"
wrote:

There are a number of reports of Tivo and Sky+ hard drives failing

That's because they're made by Maxtor. :-)

I think
this is because the discs are running continuously (and in the case
of Tivo recording continuously)

I don't think so - hard discs run for years and years in computers,
there's no reason why PVRs should be any different.

Except in a typical domestic environment they could get knocked.
Vacuum cleaners bashing into them, or smacked when non technically
inclined household personnel ( :-) ) are fiddling about under the TV.
Allowed to overheat etc. Though much the same could be applied to
home PCs.

All in all a harsher environment than an HDD in a server, in a rack, in
a nice air conditioned equipment room. Umm, maybe I should build
myself one at home.

"CJ" wrote in message
...
Hi again Paul,

what does the £65 cover? Could you please give me a web page link as I
can't find it. I
may cancel my extended warranty now......

I don't know what it covers, all I did was call sky, we went through all the
tests, and they confirmed it looked like the digibox would need replacing,
they then checked my account and said I am not under maintenance, and that
it would cost £65 to fix the problem. I said "so the total to get my sky
running again will be £65?" she said yes, and billed me for £65 on the phone
(before the engineer had even been booked ...).

Since the replacement box comes with 3 months warrantly, i think the sky
maintence cover is a waste of money, fingers crossed tho ..

Nigel Barker wrote:

The Mean Time Between Failures of hard disk drives is in the order of 100 years.
Why would you expect it to fail after months?

Lies, damned lies, statistics and hard drives. :-)

I fully expect any hard drive in any PVR to die within a few years. To
imagine otherwise would be a simple delusion. Motors running 24/24 at
that speed and that temperature just can't last.
Many don't even get past the first year and this is why there is a
general trend to reducing drive warranties to 12 months from 36.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/tez5
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

paul wrote:

Since the replacement box comes with 3 months warrantly

You can ignore this. It must be fit for the purpose and of
merchantable quality, with no specific time limits.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/tez5
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:36:39 -0000, "paul" wrote:

Since the replacement box comes with 3 months warrantly

You can ignore this. It must be fit for the purpose and of
merchantable quality, with no specific time limits.

But won't sky just say tough if it breaks down, say, on the 5th month?

They might say it, but that doesn't stop them being liable. You can
take them to court, as others have successfully:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...threadid=90921


--
QrizB

I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but don't
be fooled.

paul wrote:

Since the replacement box comes with 3 months warrantly

You can ignore this. It must be fit for the purpose and of
merchantable quality, with no specific time limits.

But won't sky just say tough if it breaks down, say, on the 5th month?

Then you pursue them in court. That's what courts are for. The "small
claims" procedure is designed for this.

Many shoddy companies rely on the fact that most people won't pursue a
claim, even if it is very sound. Sky is one such company.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/tez5
How to get UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
Fed up with logos / red buttons? : http://logofreetv.org/
BBC gone? : http://www.astra2d.co.uk/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

paul wrote:
Since the replacement box comes with 3 months warrantly

You can ignore this. It must be fit for the purpose and of
merchantable quality, with no specific time limits.

But won't sky just say tough if it breaks down, say, on the 5th month?

If they do they are breaking the law and it would be worth threatening
to sue them.



At

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/c...V0054-1111.txt

They give an example....

Q. I bought a fridge/freezer about 18 months ago, and the freezer
section has completely failed. I went back to the shop, but they refused
to do anything as it was outside the original 12 month guarantee. What
are my rights?
A. Firstly, when you buy goods from a shop, you enter into a contract
under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended). This holds the shop
liable for up to six years after purchase (Limitation Act 1980),
providing that you can show that the problem is down to an unreasonable
fault and not normal wear and tear. Secondly, remember that the
guarantee is in addition to these statutory legal rights. Don't be taken
in by the shop's argument here - they are using the issue of the
guarantee as a red herring to try to avoid their legal obligations
toward you. See our leaflet 'Buying Goods' for more information on your
rights.

You would be in a similar situation. If you bought your sky or sky+ box
from sky themselves, then they are regarded as the "shop" here.

In message
Jomtien wrote:

paul wrote:

Since the replacement box comes with 3 months warrantly

You can ignore this. It must be fit for the purpose and of
merchantable quality, with no specific time limits.

But won't sky just say tough if it breaks down, say, on the 5th month?

Then you pursue them in court. That's what courts are for. The "small
claims" procedure is designed for this.

But before you go to court, contact Trading Standards. They were very
helpful when I had a problem with my Sky+ modem just out of the 12
months warranty. They pursued Sky for me and got the repair paid for
along with some rebate on my subscription for the trouble caused.

--
Keith Porter